What is really fair?

[Regnent]

Post null and void.

[girl68]

If your story is right yeah that's reasonable.

But you're doing all these things but no where do you mention any romance...

[Take2]

The problem is that rights and fair don't really tell the whole story here. Do you have a right to want physical intimacy? Of course. Is it a reasonable request? Of course. But she also has the right to bodily integrity, so you have no right to demand physical intimacy. You just have the right to work with her to find a compromise, or accept the situation as it is and live with it, or decide it isn't acceptable and leave. It is incredibly frustrating when being right and being reasonable doesn't solve the issue, but that's life.

There are millions of potential conflicts where this is the case in relationships, it isn't specific to sex. If she wanted to play the trumpet at midnight and you wanted to sleep/if you wanted to invest your family nest egg in a Nigerian scam and she wanted to use it to paint the house fuschia/if you wanted the next family car to be a Toyota and she wanted a Honda. It's not about the reasonableness of the request or demand, it's not about rights, it's not about fair. It's about working together to find a workable solution or dealing with one of you being unhappy or splitting up. Those are the three options.

[sweetkissesforu]

i agree romance women need it they feel loved an special

[sweetkissesforu]

i dont understand im a woman and i love sex
but what i find on this site so many woman dont want sex
maybe they dont because they may not feel loved and desired
i'd ask yourself do you pay her compliments
do you tell her you love her
her make her feel like she is the most desirable woman in the world
give her flowers
women love to feel they are loved a beautiful
do you talk to her or at her she is a woman not just your wife

[xxazurexx]

^So true. Women go off sex and when they aren't getting attention, when they feel taken for granted and don't feel loved, if in a 'troublesome' relationship.
Not that she may be witholding sex as a punishment - she will just not be in the mood or feel any desire.

[xxazurexx]

But you're doing all these things but no where do you mention any romance...

Exactly! He doesn't....

[Take2]

Well, I don't think you are going to find resolution by deciding what you are entitled to or what is fair. The only way this will be resolved with any happiness for either of you is if you both approach it from the standpoint of "Here is what I need/want, how can we arrange our life together so that need/want is met." And you both have to be open to the idea that BOTH of you may currently have unmet needs/wants.

A really cool therapist I spoke to briefly explained it like this. Many marital wars boil down to unspoken expectations, or even spoken/screamed expectations, that are not being met. The problem with expectations is that generally the person recognizes a need, figures out a way the mate could meet that need, and then holds that person responsible for meeting the need in that way. That isn't fair. If the person can instead discuss the need and ask the mate for help in meeting it and come up with a solution together, everyone will be happy (even if the end solution ends up being the same!). Unfortunately, we are wired such that the expectation comes to feel like the need, and we have to sort it out.

For instance, you caress her shoulder as she cooks dinner and your expectation is a receptive attitude. But your NEED is actual physical intimacy. When she elbows you, you resent that your need is not being met. But if you can discard that expectation and approach this from the standpoint of working together to find a good solution to your actual need, you may well find a solution that has nothing to do with her response to a caress on her shoulder in the kitchen-or you may find that there is something specific and small that you both can change so you are both getting what you need.

[Take2]

I can give you my answer. Neither of you has the right to demand something the other isn't willing or able to give. Both of you have a responsibility to the relationship to give freely and generously, in ways that you are willing and able to give.

If you are giving in ways that hurt you, you need to talk about that with your wife. If you are not getting your needs met, you need to talk about that. Both of those are issues. But there's no "I played WOW with you, so now I get sex" or "I had sex with you so now you need to watch the kids for 3 hours." Relationships that play out like financial transactions trading X for Y and keeping score are doomed to make all parties miserable.

[Radarsonar]

Hate to break it to you, but you're too kind. You let her walk all over you. You work all day and provide for everything, she stays home and looks after the kids. You're right in spending time with your kids, doing stuff in the household. But don't do too much. Have the guts to say 'nah, I'm gutted from working all day' and stick to your guns. Tell her you don't feel like going shopping when you don't, or don't give her the credit card when she wants to spend money on frivolous things she doesn't need.

Not to say you should act like an asshole, but be firm and don't give in to her when you really shouldn't. Relationships are all about mutual respect, and it looks like she doesn't respect you and your input.

About the sex bit, it just might be her private parts are a bit mangled from all the birthing and sex is no longer as fun as it used to be.

[ammi00]

I don't agree that he's "too kind". Yes, he's doing his best (from his point of view), he's trying to do his part... but you go there and raise 7 kids, cook, clean and mantain order in a house, 7 days a week. I don't think it's easy for her either. Plus that, "romancy" doesn't involve $150 dinners. You don't just take her to a dinner, and then expect sex in return. You should do things uncoditionally. Maybe she'd be much happier if you'd talk to her, if you'd offer her some attention, and make her feel wanted as a woman.

[Radarsonar]

I don't agree that he's "too kind". Yes, he's doing his best (from his point of view), he's trying to do his part... but you go there and raise 7 kids, cook, clean and mantain order in a house, 7 days a week. I don't think it's easy for her either. Plus that, "romancy" doesn't involve $150 dinners. You don't just take her to a dinner, and then expect sex in return. You should do things uncoditionally. Maybe she'd be much happier if you'd talk to her, if you'd offer her some attention, and make her feel wanted as a woman.

Well you might have a point about the romance. On the other hand it's hard to be romantic when you get struck down every time you want to be intimate. I sure as cake would not want to bring her flowers and make her feel special when I'm not appreciated. I agree with the 150$ dinners part, not only is it not necessary it is downright irresponsible to spend so much when you have 8 mouths to feed.

But still, the respect problem lingers. Mutual respect is the cornerstone of a good marriage and it just isn't there. She wanted 7 kids, OP says she wants to have even more so it seems she likes having kids around. Seems to me like the wife only wants the husband for the money, energy and sperm he gives her and the kids, not the person he is. If he doesn't put his foot down now and then things will only worsen as time proceeds.

[girl68]

I think you both need to sit down and discuss this. Tell her you try and help as much as possible but you also feel like all of that is not being appriciated. Mention to her that her job is apprciated as well. Say thank you often, tell her she's a great mom, tell her she did the best job cleaning the house, doing the chores whatever. Both of you have forgotten what it means to appricaite the others efforts. Wake up and do so.

Then move on the what you're hoping for and what she ideally wants. Both of you should be sharing here. Ask her what she'd rather have a day out shopping alone? A quiet walk around the park with you? Fancy dinners? What does she want that will sweep her off her feet per se. Then you should not do all of them everytime but you should make a good hard effort to some of these. Ask her if those actions will help her feel loved by you.

Then it's your turn to share. Tell her that while her hoursekeeping is good what really makes you feel loved is physical affection, especially sex. Tell her how it makes you feel when you do get to be intimate with her, tell her how good it is, how much you love her when you get to physically close with her. Ask her if she when she feels loved would it be easier to find herself in bed with you?

You both need to get on the same page because you're not. You're doing what you THINK she wants done when you could in fact be way off base.

Try that...

[BackUpOrGetStng]

Sounds like she's always been manipulative and controlling, and you're just starting to realize it. You haven't mention that you actually love your wife once, in this thread, and honestly, I can see why. She sounds like a real bitch, and not because she won't **** you. Maybe she is just stressed, but this quote, "Seems to me like the wife only wants the husband for the money, energy and sperm he gives her and the kids, not the person he is." is spot on. She is using you. You should try having a talk with her about your lack of appreciation for each other, which it sounds like you did do your part for a while until you felt it wasn't appreciated. Give it a fair shot, and if that doesn't work, then just remember that you have power too. Don't take her shopping anywhere but the grocery store. Maintain a healthy relationship with your kids, but make her do all of the work as far as they are concerned. Start taking some of your kids out without her and have a good time. Start enjoying life without her. Hell, you can probably even start talking to other women, as I seriously doubt a woman with 7 children, no job, and no car is going to leave such a stable situation for an uncertain, tumultuous one. You're treating her like a woman, when she's behaving like a bitch...start treating her like one, if she's not responsive to talking.

[sweetkissesforu]

You must of had some sex at some point and now knowing that your wif is tired maybe a vacation for you 2