Am I emotionally abusive?

[KingZ]

Next time you find yourself about to "switch off," you should channel your energy into something more productive, like decking her in the face.

[sweetkissesforu]

When did I tell you to cheat? I just said that you've already cheated emotionally on her, so your delusion of sticking things out through thick an thin doesn't hold water.

Serve her with separation papers and then you can leave and do whatever the hell you want. Now all you have is a rock, so what's your excuse for staying?


And let me add, you most certainly ARE blind, and at this point you deserve whatever anger and hurt you get from staying in this relationship because you refuse to do anything to make your life better.

I agree must be a martyr to stay in this unhealthy marriage with no sex and little communication

[misombra]

Your marriage is just a lump of drama. I wouldn't be surprised if everybody around you all are fed up of the whole thing. There's a child living with you? Her development is a problem and you're doing this child a disservice making her live in the midst of all your drama.

[RdHrshyKss]

i have to agree with misombra on this incog. just because you and your wife don't argue in front of her doesn't mean your relationship isn't affecting her. children absorb A LOT and are really conscious of their environment and the kind of energy in the air. she knows you guys aren't happy and it's not setting a good example at all. this is going to negatively affect her future relationships...i can guarantee it.

[vertical_sky]

Hey Incog,

I've down a quick run down of a few of your posts, and gotten to about page 3 of this thread. If I can be so bold, I have a couple of comments and a few pieces of advice.

1) I admire that you take your vows very seriously.
2) She does sound difficult to deal with. But... if I may say so... so do you. That's not meant as a put down. We are all difficult in some way, and we all of us have flaws and crosses to carry. She does sound selfish and not very in touch with her feelings, and you seem emotionally distant and perhaps unable to articulate them in a non-defensive way. All together, as another poster said, it sounds toxic.

Do I think you're emotionally abusive? Eh. It sounds like you both take your pounds of flesh, both put up your walls and then demand the other person scale them to get to you.

Again, I really admire that you take your vows seriously. But if you ARE going to stay in this marriage, things absolutely need to change. About you, about her, about your relationship. Right now both you and she are playing a sort of Russian roulette... the person who changes is the "weaker" one, the person who steps outside their comfort zone is the loser. You cannot control what she does or change who she is. That means, if you want to change the situation, you'll need to change yourself. Will she follow suit? Who knows. But actively working on yourself in the relationship... REALLY stretching yourself to being patient and loving.... means you could at least give yourself back some power.

I can understand why it's difficult to be "fake." But at the same time, when you won't sit down next to her on the couch, or hold her hand, or speak to her at dinner, you are perpetuating the cycle of this bad relationship. You won't step outside your comfort zone (be "fake") but you expect her to. It's a perfectly understandable feeling, but SOMETHING has to change. And right now, that something might have to be you.

If you don't want to change, or step beyond what makes you comfortable (ie, FORCE yourself to do what she asks most of the time, and at least ACT happy about it), then get out. Refusing to either change/work on what's going on or get the heck out IS emotional abuse for sure, because it means you're miserable, and that misery poisons your marriage, and by extension, her.

[RdHrshyKss]

^^^really well said vertical.

[peppercherry]

Hi, I actually wanted to make a comment on one of your blogs but didn't know how so I'm commenting here.
I'm a 26 y/o female, been married for 5 years, didn't have sex before marriage due to religious reasons (I'm not longer religious) and unfortunately had an emotional affair a while ago. You haven't asked for my opinion on anything so feel free to ignore me, I just thought that with a few similarities between us my POV might interest you.
In one of your blogs you said you were not initiating sex with your wife because you thought she might want it if she was deprived of it. In my marriage I am the one who doesn't want/can't have sex. For a while my husband did that same thing, waited for me to initiate sex, thinking that I'd finally want it. It didn't work.
In the same blog you also said that by not initiating sex with her you could say to her at the end of the year 'we've only had sex twice in a year, what's wrong?!'. Again, my husband did a similar thing. All that did was make me feel terrible. I already felt embarrassed, ashamed and disgusted with myself for not being able/not wanting sex with my husband. So him saying that just hurt.
Even though I am the one who has not wanted/been able to have sex, I am still very sexual. I do want sex, just not with him. Sometimes I would become quite crabby and distant because of the frustration of the situation. I love him, am in love with him, but for some reason my body doesn't call for him.
Things have improved a bit. In the past I have let him have sex and he hasn't liked it knowing that I'm just letting him, not wanting it. But I explained to him that I WANT to want to have sex so I let him in the hope that a few good sexual experiences will increase my desire for him. I told him I want him to enjoy it and not to feel bad that he's having sex with me when I don't really want it, because the truth is I WANT to want it. And gradually I think it's working. I make myself initiate it and try to be open to enjoying it. I used to hate it, then I was indifferent, now I often actually like it once we get going.
He sometimes got upset and grumpy when he hadn't had sex for a long time. Luckily for me he never became emotionally distant. I think if he had it would have pushed me further away from wanting sex with him.
I know you've said that you don't want to be fake by sitting next to your wife etc. when you don't feel like it but I'm assuming you WANT to want to be emotionally connected to her, so perhaps you could try to act the way you wished you wanted to act and gradually you might actually enjoy it. I'm not sure if I'm being clear so here's an example: a person wants to get fit but is never in the mood for going to the gym, they could say to themselves, 'I'm not in the mood so I won't go', or they could say,'I wish I wanted to go, so I'm just going to go'. After a few weeks of going they might begin to actually want to go, without needing to force themselves.
Sorry if this is all completely irrelevant, I've read some of your posts but not all of them.

[Gribble]

I'd hardly call that emotional abuse. I think it's a natural response to a bizarre, perverse situation such as a lengthy monogamous relationship. How can two but the most masochistically devoted hope to maintain any kind of emotional connection as the years wear on?

[Take2]

Is it emotional abuse? I'd say no.

However, I would say that you are not as principled as you want to see yourself.

To me, marriage is not simply failing to get a legal divorce. You have emotionally left your marriage, you have sexually left your marriage. You stay physically and legally and financially, but only so that you can claim the moral high road. I say marriage is a sh*t or get off the pot sort of thing. To me, the moral high road is to do it right or admit you aren't doing it at all. Either pour yourself 100% into this "marriage" and make it real or cut your losses and give both of you a chance to find real happiness with someone else. Why in the world would it be a morally superior option to live miserably together and play mind games with each other for the rest of your lives? Particularly when you know you are actually doing psychological damage to a child who had no say in this arrangement?

[Incognito]

Hey Incog,

I've down a quick run down of a few of your posts, and gotten to about page 3 of this thread. If I can be so bold, I have a couple of comments and a few pieces of advice.

1) I admire that you take your vows very seriously.
2) She does sound difficult to deal with. But... if I may say so... so do you. That's not meant as a put down. We are all difficult in some way, and we all of us have flaws and crosses to carry. She does sound selfish and not very in touch with her feelings, and you seem emotionally distant and perhaps unable to articulate them in a non-defensive way. All together, as another poster said, it sounds toxic.

Do I think you're emotionally abusive? Eh. It sounds like you both take your pounds of flesh, both put up your walls and then demand the other person scale them to get to you.

Again, I really admire that you take your vows seriously. But if you ARE going to stay in this marriage, things absolutely need to change. About you, about her, about your relationship. Right now both you and she are playing a sort of Russian roulette... the person who changes is the "weaker" one, the person who steps outside their comfort zone is the loser. You cannot control what she does or change who she is. That means, if you want to change the situation, you'll need to change yourself. Will she follow suit? Who knows. But actively working on yourself in the relationship... REALLY stretching yourself to being patient and loving.... means you could at least give yourself back some power.

I can understand why it's difficult to be "fake." But at the same time, when you won't sit down next to her on the couch, or hold her hand, or speak to her at dinner, you are perpetuating the cycle of this bad relationship. You won't step outside your comfort zone (be "fake") but you expect her to. It's a perfectly understandable feeling, but SOMETHING has to change. And right now, that something might have to be you.

If you don't want to change, or step beyond what makes you comfortable (ie, FORCE yourself to do what she asks most of the time, and at least ACT happy about it), then get out. Refusing to either change/work on what's going on or get the heck out IS emotional abuse for sure, because it means you're miserable, and that misery poisons your marriage, and by extension, her.

Wow, I'm off for a few days and all these posts. Oh well.

Alright well I see your point(s). However I cringe at the thought of "putting myself out there" again because I've done it before and didn't get good results (to say the least). Maybe I will try this, maybe I won't.

[Incognito]

Hi, I actually wanted to make a comment on one of your blogs but didn't know how so I'm commenting here.
I'm a 26 y/o female, been married for 5 years, didn't have sex before marriage due to religious reasons (I'm not longer religious) and unfortunately had an emotional affair a while ago. You haven't asked for my opinion on anything so feel free to ignore me, I just thought that with a few similarities between us my POV might interest you.
In one of your blogs you said you were not initiating sex with your wife because you thought she might want it if she was deprived of it. In my marriage I am the one who doesn't want/can't have sex. For a while my husband did that same thing, waited for me to initiate sex, thinking that I'd finally want it. It didn't work.
In the same blog you also said that by not initiating sex with her you could say to her at the end of the year 'we've only had sex twice in a year, what's wrong?!'. Again, my husband did a similar thing. All that did was make me feel terrible. I already felt embarrassed, ashamed and disgusted with myself for not being able/not wanting sex with my husband. So him saying that just hurt.
Even though I am the one who has not wanted/been able to have sex, I am still very sexual. I do want sex, just not with him. Sometimes I would become quite crabby and distant because of the frustration of the situation. I love him, am in love with him, but for some reason my body doesn't call for him.
Things have improved a bit. In the past I have let him have sex and he hasn't liked it knowing that I'm just letting him, not wanting it. But I explained to him that I WANT to want to have sex so I let him in the hope that a few good sexual experiences will increase my desire for him. I told him I want him to enjoy it and not to feel bad that he's having sex with me when I don't really want it, because the truth is I WANT to want it. And gradually I think it's working. I make myself initiate it and try to be open to enjoying it. I used to hate it, then I was indifferent, now I often actually like it once we get going.
He sometimes got upset and grumpy when he hadn't had sex for a long time. Luckily for me he never became emotionally distant. I think if he had it would have pushed me further away from wanting sex with him.
I know you've said that you don't want to be fake by sitting next to your wife etc. when you don't feel like it but I'm assuming you WANT to want to be emotionally connected to her, so perhaps you could try to act the way you wished you wanted to act and gradually you might actually enjoy it. I'm not sure if I'm being clear so here's an example: a person wants to get fit but is never in the mood for going to the gym, they could say to themselves, 'I'm not in the mood so I won't go', or they could say,'I wish I wanted to go, so I'm just going to go'. After a few weeks of going they might begin to actually want to go, without needing to force themselves.
Sorry if this is all completely irrelevant, I've read some of your posts but not all of them.

You seem to be saying the same thing as vertical_sky. I feel sorry for your husband though, he is definitely a better and/or more patient man than I. My wife had had similar comments as you about feeling bad that we didn't have sex. Well I'm sorry, but that just doesn't cut it. Its like stepping on someone's foot and then feeling emotionally hurt because they complained that you almost broke their toe. Doesn't seem so rational does it?

[Incognito]

I'd hardly call that emotional abuse. I think it's a natural response to a bizarre, perverse situation such as a lengthy monogamous relationship. How can two but the most masochistically devoted hope to maintain any kind of emotional connection as the years wear on?

This is just hilarious! Good ole Gribble.

[vertical_sky]

Its like stepping on someone's foot and then feeling emotionally hurt because they complained that you almost broke their toe. Doesn't seem so rational does it?

But it also doesn't seem rational to continue being upset with them when they apologized and would potentially be open to making things better.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: sex is a very, very, very ^5 difficult thing for a lot of women. I routinely read both "fluff" and scholarly articles about it, listen to advice pod casts, openly discuss it with girlfriends and male friends (which is still kind of taboo for women to do), and yet I STILL run into problems in that arena. I STILL have a difficult time opening up to partners.

So the metaphor is more appropriate if you said "It's like stepping on someone's foot and then feeling emotionally hurt because they complained that you almost broke their toe when you are clearly crippled, cannot control your bodily functions, and just punched yourself in the face three times while trying to apologize to them for stepping on their foot."

That said, your wife DOES need to take responsibility for her sexuality, and learn how to communicate her needs and desires.

Perhaps I missed it, so apologies, but... why exactly is counseling not an option?

[Incognito]

Is it emotional abuse? I'd say no.

However, I would say that you are not as principled as you want to see yourself.

To me, marriage is not simply failing to get a legal divorce. You have emotionally left your marriage, you have sexually left your marriage. You stay physically and legally and financially, but only so that you can claim the moral high road. I say marriage is a sh*t or get off the pot sort of thing. To me, the moral high road is to do it right or admit you aren't doing it at all. Either pour yourself 100% into this "marriage" and make it real or cut your losses and give both of you a chance to find real happiness with someone else. Why in the world would it be a morally superior option to live miserably together and play mind games with each other for the rest of your lives? Particularly when you know you are actually doing psychological damage to a child who had no say in this arrangement?

As much as I hate being wrong, or missing some part of 'the big picture', perhaps you are right.... In certain aspects I have left, but because I haven't left physically or financially I consider myself having not left yet. Perhaps we are both right? You say that marriage is a sh*t or get off the pot sort of thing and you say the moral high road is doing it right or not doing it at all. I respect your opinion, and can even see (if only slightly) your point, but your opinion is simply the same as the rest of mainstream America's, which is "leave if it isn't going your way".

[RdHrshyKss]

You seem to be saying the same thing as vertical_sky. I feel sorry for your husband though, he is definitely a better and/or more patient man than I. My wife had had similar comments as you about feeling bad that we didn't have sex. Well I'm sorry, but that just doesn't cut it. Its like stepping on someone's foot and then feeling emotionally hurt because they complained that you almost broke their toe. Doesn't seem so rational does it?

eh, except that stepping on someone's toe doesn't really equate to sex. Sex is something that is supposed to benefit both parties...so the way you are comparing is like saying that your wife should feel like it's her obligation to have sex with you whether she wants to or not. yes, i agree that sex is an extremely important facet of a healthy relationship, and without it, the relationship is pretty much doomed. but when it comes to obligation...telling your wife as such will only turn her off from wanting to have it even more. sex shouldn't be a chore, it should be something that both people want to do.