Two professionals, same salary - can't agree on splitting expenses

[MerryH]

Also, if I've read it correctly, it's not just about dates, but shared expenses as a whole.

I'm pretty sure he said it's just about dates and fun things, not rent or bills.

But I did like your drawing.

[Mongoose]

Haha, thanks : D

She wants me to pay for the majority of our shared expenses. She believes it's a gender role for the man to pay.

Yea, dates and fun things do seem to be a big part, but I'm fairly sure groceries and that kind of thing are included in there too. Might be wrong.

[MerryH]

Groceries for their dates, maybe?

To me, it seems like she's already quite financially independent. She has her own place, pays her own bills, it's just that she wants the man to pay for the majority of the dates.

I'm not sure which side I agree with. I probably lean a bit more toward his side. But I think there are ways for the OP and fiancee to solve it without it becoming a big issue. I mean, if 60/40 will make her shut it, when money isn't even the issue for either of them, problem solved, I would think.

[Mongoose]

That probably would be the best way to go. But the underlying issue of viewing a man paying for dates and activities as his duty is probably going to have to change for this to work. Even if the guy does end up paying for most of the dates, that act must be regarded as one of generosity and affection, and not some sort of basic and meaningless prerequisite. It's the fact that she doesn't appreciate these things for what they are and respond appropriately.

[Take2]

I really like your post, Take2. Possibly something constructive we could try to prevent these money issues from ruining our relationship.

You can see right on this very thread that there are people who have the same underlying emotions feeding their scripts about datig finances as you and your mate. Some say that you should pay because that is how men care for their women. Some say she should pay half because that is how a relationship of equals should work.

The truth is that neither viewpoint is "right" or "wrong" and you will be better off resolving this if you discard "right" and "wrong" from the equation. You feel how you feel, and a good relationship will value your feelings and needs. She feels how she feels, just as strongly as you do, and a good relationship will value her feelings and needs. There are many places in life where right and wrong and facts and fairness are the right way to evaluate. That is certainly how I want my doctor to approach an illness and my electrician to approach a wiring problem in my home. But relationships are much more about emotions, emotional needs, and the patterns we have learned from infancy when faced with emotions. When we try to resolve relationship issues by looking only at the facts, we fail miserably.

If you don't mind digging through some pretty dense reading to get some great insight into relationships, google "affect script psychology."

[Take2]

That probably would be the best way to go. But the underlying issue of viewing a man paying for dates and activities as his duty is probably going to have to change for this to work. Even if the guy does end up paying for most of the dates, that act must be regarded as one of generosity and affection, and not some sort of basic and meaningless prerequisite. It's the fact that she doesn't appreciate these things for what they are and respond appropriately.

Well, I don't know. It is a fact that the OP has an emotional need he is not getting met. It is a fact that his gf has an emotional need she is not getting met. It is a fact that both of them bring expectations to the table, expectations that they think they need to have met to have their needs met. So he feels she is being inappropriate and she feels he is being inappropriate. But if they love each other, no amount of proving he is right or she is right will fix this. They both need to value each other's feelings and needs for the relationship to thrive. They both need to give up being "right" on this issue and figure out how to both be loving and kind to each other on this issue. That will take compromise from both of them, but neither of them has to lose anything if they address the emotional needs rather than the dollars and cents.

[vashti]

Well from the sound of things it is indeed out of generosity and care. She doesn't like cleaning so he does most of it [I presume that's at her house]. That sounds pretty nice to me.

That sounds pretty DUMB to me. She should live in her own place, and he should live in his, and they should keep their own places clean.

why should everything be about the woman, and making her feel special? Isn't it equally important to do this for the guy in a relationship?

Of course it's important, but if the woman isn't feeling happy/loved, he will never have his own needs met. Good women who feel loved and appreciated tend to be generous in their own way. They tend to look for ways to spoil the man they love.

Since he is the one looking for help, and since he can only control his own behavior, it is going to be up to him to make a change. If he feels she is just a gold-digging bitch, then he really shouldn't be with her at all, don't you think?

[BackUpOrGetStng]

greg, just start paying for your nights out, but take advantage of every gender stereotype you can think of. Make her do all of your cooking and cleaning, and have her wait on you hand and foot whether you're at her place or yours. Headaches and being tired should no longer get her out of sex either. If she wants stereotypical gender roles, give them to her, and figure out ways to make it enjoyable for yourself.

[SelflessnHumble]

First off, fighting about (especially money) issues means the both of you are more about principle(s) than about "loving" one another, you can't have both.
2nd off: she feels HER opinion(s) on a serious and committed relationship ARE more valid than your own: which in itself is just begging for trouble.
Sadly and conversely: you do the same to her.

It sounds like she makes excuses so that YOU should pay for everything while she just says thank you.
She doesn't like to clean, nor to drive, so tell me? WTF does she like to do (for you?) other than give you sex? (Besides Cooking?)

Both of you are from different classes, so I can understand how she feels regarding money and being stingy with (hers) while you are able to spend like there's no tomorrow.
Her resentment could stem from seeing you lavishly spend your own money on yourself while not wanting to on her? Either way: she has arrived at
this conclusion where you should spend more money because you have more (which makes no sense if you claim your household net income is over $300,000.00 per yr??? Oh Kay.

The solution:
The both of you don't know how to coexist with one another because both of you invalidate each others' opinion(s) and feelings in the process of fighting.
This relationship is doomed to fail, only you two haven't verbally consummated the dissolution of the "title" and all of the benefits that go along with it.

This CANNOT work and if you cannot see why (after reading my post) then THAT is WHY!

[SelflessnHumble]

greg, just start paying for your nights out, but take advantage of every gender stereotype you can think of. Make her do all of your cooking and cleaning, and have her wait on you hand and foot whether you're at her place or yours. Headaches and being tired should no longer get her out of sex either. If she wants stereotypical gender roles, give them to her, and figure out ways to make it enjoyable for yourself.

She doesn't like to clean so now instead of feeling resentful/unhappy due to the spending limits imposed she will
be resentful and unhappy for having to clean. However, is this post a joke to teach her a lesson? Do you think it will work?

[Take2]

greg, just start paying for your nights out, but take advantage of every gender stereotype you can think of. Make her do all of your cooking and cleaning, and have her wait on you hand and foot whether you're at her place or yours. Headaches and being tired should no longer get her out of sex either. If she wants stereotypical gender roles, give them to her, and figure out ways to make it enjoyable for yourself.

I have tried this solution before. Basically, you are suggesting he take one problem and make it into two problems. How will that make his life better, exactly? Somehow, exacting revenge and punishing a mate for their requests and feelings doesn't tend to create a more harmonious relationship. I can't imagine why.

[BackUpOrGetStng]

She doesn't like to clean so now instead of feeling resentful/unhappy due to the spending limits imposed she will
be resentful and unhappy for having to clean. However, is this post a joke to teach her a lesson? Do you think it will work?

I suspect she is a control freak and "wants what she wants", and the gender role excuse is just that, an excuse to get what she wants. My suggestion will determine whether or not she is being genuine, as she should have no problem complying with the things I listed if she really wants to honor traditional gender roles. She's really just selfish, and I agree that this relationship is probably doomed and if not, the OP's wants and needs certainly are doomed. Greg, I truthfully think you should have a break up talk with her, and tell her that you want someone that will appreciate your effort and if she's not willing to make a compromise then you would rather just leave. You are going to be a doctor which means you have plenty of options now and that will only increase when you become one. You need to show her that you're willing to leave her if she's not willing to compromise on this.

Take2, it's not punishing or exacting revenge. It is literally using her logic and reasoning so he can get some benefit from the arrangement as well. As I said earlier, if she's not full of shit, she should have not problem taking on the traditional female roles. My guess is that she is full of shit.

[Take2]

Take2, it's not punishing or exacting revenge. It is literally using her logic and reasoning so he can get some benefit from the arrangement as well. As I said earlier, if she's not full of shit, she should have not problem taking on the traditional female roles. My guess is that she is full of shit.

OK, but any aggressive response is not going to help matters. "I'll show you, I'll give you your own medicine." or "I will prove to you that your argument is wrong/you don't really believe what you say." That MAY prove you are right and end the relationship, it will not bring you closer or alleviate tension or bring you closer. So if that's the route you choose, you might as well save everyone time and heartache and just break up now.

[BackUpOrGetStng]

OK, but any aggressive response is not going to help matters. "I'll show you, I'll give you your own medicine." or "I will prove to you that your argument is wrong/you don't really believe what you say." That MAY prove you are right and end the relationship, it will not bring you closer or alleviate tension or bring you closer. So if that's the route you choose, you might as well save everyone time and heartache and just break up now.

This was actually my exact advice. Use this as a test; if she's a manipulative bitch, taking him for granted and just trying to have her way, dump her. If she wants to talk out a compromise, then talk it out and keep her. As I said, I think he should break up with her. Either way, it will force a serious talk and get everything out in the open.

[MerryH]

Headaches and being tired should no longer get her out of sex either.

greg, please don't rape your girlfriend.