6 women, 6 weeks

[Bo]

Are we all done then?

Jesus, go be an asshole and then tell us if that gets you the date ok?

[Take2]

WWJD?

Sorry, could not resist.

[Bo]

WWJD?

Sorry, could not resist.

PRAY. lolll

That might be the next step he should take if being an asshole doesn't work out.

[chump4u]

I don't know how many time females have to tell you that we don't like mean assholes but suit yourself, you still haven't had success right?

Are we all done then? Jesus, go be an asshole and then tell us if that gets you the date ok?

Where in this whole, rambling thread does anyone advocate being a "mean asshole?" Where does anyone threaten to act that way? Who claimed that girls like "mean assholes?" Hmmm? Who? You've set up a strawman, then massacred Hell out of it.

What some people have said-- tried to say, implied-- is that "nice guy" attitudes of decency and respect for women hamper men when they try to meet and court women. An active sense of what is moral, appropriate and respectful can cause a fellow to hesitate and second-guess himself when he's trying to date, which gives girls like you an opportunity to start shrieking "wussy-wuss wussbaq" and throwing used food at the poor guy and laughing and pointing him out in the street so that all your friends can laugh at him too.

So the only advice an honest person can give a "nice guy" is just the advice I've tried to give: That he should lose his counterproductive hangups with dignity, respect, and morality in his dealings with women, and deal from the same deck the jerk uses.

Anyway, congratulations on the slaughter of the strawman. Strawman massacre. Straw flying everywhere. Congratulations to Bo and all who contributed-- Azurexxx, Selflessnhumble, et. al.

[Take2]

What some people have said-- tried to say, implied-- is that "nice guy" attitudes of decency and respect for women hamper men when they try to meet and court women. An active sense of what is moral, appropriate and respectful can cause a fellow to hesitate and second-guess himself when he's trying to date, which gives girls like you an opportunity to start shrieking "wussy-wuss wussbaq" and throwing used food at the poor guy and laughing and pointing him out in the street so that all your friends can laugh at him too.

So the only advice an honest person can give a "nice guy" is just the advice I've tried to give: That he should lose his counterproductive hangups with dignity, respect, and morality in his dealings with women, and deal from the same deck the jerk uses.

But this is a false correlary. It is not decency and respect that hinder this every-man nice dude. He may have decency and respect and a high moral code, he may see others who don't have those traits getting women, but that is not a causal relationship. What he lacks, what the other dudes have...is self-confidence, something interesting to say, and the ability to treat a woman like she is special without turning into a hopeless puppy.

And because this poor sap is making a false assumption, he is in for a fall. Because if he drops dignity, respect and morality, he will become an abhorent person and have less self-respect. And yet, if he remains unconfident through this, he will STILL not get dates. And if he becomes a confident jerk, he will still have sold his soul unnecessarily. He could have kept his dignity, respect and morality, added some self-confidence, and had plenty of romantic opportunities. I would think the choice would be clear.

[chump4u]

But this is a false correlary. It is not decency and respect that hinder this every-man nice dude. He may have decency and respect and a high moral code, he may see others who don't have those traits getting women, but that is not a causal relationship. What he lacks, what the other dudes have...is self-confidence, something interesting to say, and the ability to treat a woman like she is special without turning into a hopeless puppy.

And because this poor sap is making a false assumption, he is in for a fall. Because if he drops dignity, respect and morality, he will become an abhorent person and have less self-respect. And yet, if he remains unconfident through this, he will STILL not get dates.

I wish you wouldn't do that: when I see men described as "hopeless puppy" and "poor sap" it makes me think you are part of the problem. Also, it causes a red mist to form in front of my eyes, which makes it hard to read the other words. And it gives me a headache, and sometimes causes me to bite pieces out of my keyboard, which can be expensive, especially if I'm using a laptop at the time.

And if he becomes a confident jerk, he will still have sold his soul unnecessarily. He could have kept his dignity, respect and morality, added some self-confidence, and had plenty of romantic opportunities. I would think the choice would be clear.

I don't believe that anything is clear about any part of this nice-guy vs. jerk vs. jerk-enablers nonsense. I suspect a big part of the problem to be lack of well-defined terms, especially of terms like "confidence," and "assertiveness." I'm not sure if we can do much about that, since I've found that even people like you-- very pleasant, decent, kind, and articulate (on a keyboard, anyway)-- simply can't understand the argument. I guess you have to be in, or have been in, a "Nice Guy (tm)" head before you can feel his argument and grasp his definition of things.

Anyway, I give up for now.

[xxazurexx]

Where in this whole, rambling thread does anyone advocate being a "mean asshole?" Where does anyone threaten to act that way? Who claimed that girls like "mean assholes?" Hmmm? Who? You've set up a strawman, then massacred Hell out of it.

What some people have said-- tried to say, implied-- is that "nice guy" attitudes of decency and respect for women hamper men when they try to meet and court women. An active sense of what is moral, appropriate and respectful can cause a fellow to hesitate and second-guess himself when he's trying to date, which gives girls like you an opportunity to start shrieking "wussy-wuss wussbaq" and throwing used food at the poor guy and laughing and pointing him out in the street so that all your friends can laugh at him too.

So the only advice an honest person can give a "nice guy" is just the advice I've tried to give: That he should lose his counterproductive hangups with dignity, respect, and morality in his dealings with women, and deal from the same deck the jerk uses.

Anyway, congratulations on the slaughter of the strawman. Strawman massacre. Straw flying everywhere. Congratulations to Bo and all who contributed-- Azurexxx, Selflessnhumble, et. al.

Any kind of 'jerk' is an ASSHOLE....

Odd that everyone agreed in this thread....a mere TWO of you didn't...3 sorry.

Says it all really.

And Azure helped him and when he came to me for advice and when he was hung up on some stupid tart who preferred a guy over him and was some guy who treated her like shit and screwed other women behind her back. I got the impression that he thought this type of guy was the guy who had unlimited success with females and that he had become this type of guy and in order to attract women....an ASSHOLE!

And I tried to put him straight in this thread and said that he needs to lose the 'too eager to please' trait.....that doesn't mean he has to quit being a nice guy

I wish him success. He obviously knows it all and despite what the MAJORITY of females seem to be saying...so should soon start reaping the results.

OVER AND OUT....and my last post in this gad damn stoopid thread.

[chump4u]

Odd that everyone agreed in this thread....a mere TWO of you didn't...3 sorry.

I'm sorry, too, that we don't live in a world in which Truth and Justice and Happiness and Love and Fluffy Kittens are defined and decided by majority vote.

And I tried to put him straight in this thread and said that he needs to lose the 'too eager to please' trait.....that doesn't mean he has to quit being a nice guy

Here's part of the problem: you don't understand that following your advice, "losing" the "too eager to please trait"
(with all the attitudes and values that cause the "too eager to please trait"), is exactly what I'm telling him to do, too...that is, think like an asshole. And yes, that does mean he has to quit being a nice guy.

OVER AND OUT....and my last post in this gad damn stoopid thread.

Yeah, it's a bitch, ain't? This is my post after my absolutely last post on this thread, and I still can't get across to anyone. Oh, well, absolutely last post, promise, for sure.

[MynameisJesus]

Here's part of the problem: you don't understand that following your advice, "losing" the "too eager to please trait"
(with all the attitudes and values that cause the "too eager to please trait"), is exactly what I'm telling him to do, too...that is, think like an asshole. And yes, that does mean he has to quit being a nice guy.

Amen to that. And it makes perfect sense as well.
Doormats are eager to please. Nice guys are tempted to please once in a while, which is almost just as bad. Egocentric people only please themselves, which is (in my opinion) the way to go based on the sample size I've observed during the last 5 years.

This was my last post on the forum.
I want to thank smackie9 for opening my eyes and being a fantastic woman.

I'm not bitter, no longer in love either. I call it liberated
No hard feelings for anybody in this thread, thanks for participating and good luck with your relationships.
I'm not gonna bash on all women from now on, I'll keep the ones I respect as friends in case there is no other attraction. The others will run into the new me

[Bo]

Where in this whole, rambling thread does anyone advocate being a "mean asshole?" Where does anyone threaten to act that way? Who claimed that girls like "mean assholes?" Hmmm? Who? You've set up a strawman, then massacred Hell out of it.

What some people have said-- tried to say, implied-- is that "nice guy" attitudes of decency and respect for women hamper men when they try to meet and court women. An active sense of what is moral, appropriate and respectful can cause a fellow to hesitate and second-guess himself when he's trying to date, which gives girls like you an opportunity to start shrieking "wussy-wuss wussbaq" and throwing used food at the poor guy and laughing and pointing him out in the street so that all your friends can laugh at him too.

So the only advice an honest person can give a "nice guy" is just the advice I've tried to give: That he should lose his counterproductive hangups with dignity, respect, and morality in his dealings with women, and deal from the same deck the jerk uses.

Anyway, congratulations on the slaughter of the strawman. Strawman massacre. Straw flying everywhere. Congratulations to Bo and all who contributed-- Azurexxx, Selflessnhumble, et. al.

where have you been this entire time?
HE CLEARLY said he's a strong believer that girls love a-holes or guys who treat them like shit. REPEATEDLY.

And that in itself has changed him and his perspective on dating which i wouldn't blame him for except for that he sounds very bitter which is highly unattractive. And he's said his method is going to be to treat women like he doesn't give a shit so that he can "APPEAR" to be confident and not afraid of failure. which in turn will attract a female apparently.

[Take2]

Amen to that. And it makes perfect sense as well.
Doormats are eager to please. Nice guys are tempted to please once in a while, which is almost just as bad. Egocentric people only please themselves, which is (in my opinion) the way to go based on the sample size I've observed during the last 5 years.

OK, yeah. But why do these diatribes always leave out the other option? Is it because you are too lazy to try the actual successful thing, and need an easy answer? So you go with a-hole, because that takes far less work? That is my suspicion.

Because healthy guys (and girls) communicate, find ways to please each other, are comfortable expecting give AND take. To pretend that your options are to give or to take is simple-minded.

Chump4u, maybe I am part of the problem in your eyes. I had never understood the whole "nice guy" issue until very recently. I have always said "I love nice guys, wouldn't any woman? What is up with that?"

Then I dated a guy, very briefly. I am certain he would describe himself as a nice guy. He wasn't bad looking, I agreed to go out with him. We went on one date and he decided I was his soul mate. He blew up my phone with texts, called me all the time, wanted to deliver homemade dinner to my doorstep when I couldn't see him. He was ready to solve all my problems, be my everything. And yeah, he was sort of puppylike in his devotion. It was not alluring, it didn't even feel nice. It felt like he was trying to control me, make me love him, take over my universe. And when I told him I couldn't see him again, he gave me the "nice guy manifesto" and yelled at me that women SAY they want nice guys but they really want jerks.

No, we want confident guys who have their own selves and don't need to consume ours to have a reason to live. We want to feel special, and desperate guys give off the air that ANY woman who will love them is good enough. No, thanks. If that makes me part of the problem, then I will live and die as part of the problem. But I have never dated an a-hole. My bf is nice, albeit nice with a backbone and self respect. Any other guy I may date for all eternity will need to be nice, AND confident. I am sorry if that makes you see red, or bite your keyboard, but it just is the way things are.

[xxazurexx]

No, we want confident guys who have their own selves and don't need to consume ours to have a reason to live. We want to feel special, and desperate guys give off the air that ANY woman who will love them is good enough. No, thanks. If that makes me part of the problem, then I will live and die as part of the problem. But I have never dated an a-hole. My bf is nice, albeit nice with a backbone and self respect. Any other guy I may date for all eternity will need to be nice, AND confident. I am sorry if that makes you see red, or bite your keyboard, but it just is the way things are.

AMEN to this ^^^^

[smackie9]

OK OK now ladies the guys are not in anyway singling you out as to "going for assholes" so stop being so defensive. You don't date assholes well goody for you. You are probably the 20% that doesn't and never will. BUT there is some truth to what they say and I have to agree. They are pin pointing the very young girls out there that are inexperienced, needy for attention, and insecure.....those are the majority of young girls that are attracted to the jerks and players. They see a challenge and want to "fix" them or tame the beast so to speak and hope to be the girl that is special to them. Now I know for a fact a lot of ( NOT ALL) very attractive girls are insecure, so you get this formula of good looking girls being around so called jerks and bad boys. I've seen it....I worked at a night club for 4 years and I had plenty of time to observe this crap and looking back,,,,yup nice guys didn't cut it with me either except this one, but I got burned anyway because he didn't have the balls to leave his GF (long story). I dated jerks for sure but I call them mistakes or a use of poor judgement lol. Hell I have no problem admitting it....I was one of those girls but like most we do grow up and our view on what we want changes....thank god.

[Take2]

Hold on smackie, I am not defensive, just calling it as I see it. It's not like I am a lone wolf and have never hung out with other women and have no clue how people other than me approach dating. I have talked to a lot of girls/women about dating in college and beyond. I have known a few very damaged gals who seemed to seek out jerks, sure. But very few. The vast majority of young women on the dating scene are open to a cool non-jerk but too naive to discern signs of future jerky behavior in a smooth talker. In my experience, maybe 5 to 10% of attractive women are actually attracted to jerks purposefully or knowingly. The rest could be successfully wooed by a confident non-jerk just as well as a confident jerk. And that 5-10% is bad news anyway, unless you are willing to risk having your pet rabbit boiled, a young man should stay away from the type of woman who needs a bad boy.

[smackie9]

I wasn't referring to you. I'm just not going to mention any names. I still see beautiful woman, girls dating jackasses, I see it I hear about it. I saw it in high school, college, the bar I worked at, in my social circles, and my present place of employment for the last 20 plus years .I work with a lot of people and temporary staff and it's one big soap opera. So in my experience of the last 33 years, I haven't see a change in this behaviour. I guess it depends on the demographics, maybe your area is better educated and has a more of a moral standing or religious views. Maybe women here are just stupid ass bitches.

Oh there are bad girls too that feed on the nice guys trust me on that one. Guys that are surprisingly good looking dating psycho bitches. No one gets that either but oh well maybe they give good head.