Another chance. How to seize it this time? [need advice somewhat quick]

[thechampanon]

So I really liked this girl, and we had become best friends. Needless to say, I had put myself in the friend zone.

We had a fallout 8 months ago (huge fight), and I hadn't talked to her until two nights ago. I sent a text to her asking why she never talked to me, even 8 months later. I expected a rather harsh response but was pleased to see it actually went very well.

We didn't talk too much, but it went well. Yesterday I asked her if she would like to catch up. To my surprise she said "sure, that sounds good to me " So Thursday.. I am going to talk to her for the first time in person in 8 months and 3 days. I don't know what we will do yet (if anyone has ideas that'd be great, but that isn't the main idea for the thread)

We have each changed a lot this year, so it is as if we are meeting each other for the first time. It is essentially a second chance, with a clean slate. But we are off to college at the end of the summer. From what I've heard, she has become.. "easy" if you will.

So any tips on avoiding the friend zone this time around? I am not really looking for a relationship exactly, but would like to be somewhat intimate with her this time and leave the rest to be decided later.

Thanks

[SplendidGray]

Listen carefully my friend...

The reason you had a "falling out" eight months ago, is because she wanted to continue using you as her security blanket, while she pursued the acceptance and validation of other guys. You may not have realized it, but you genuinly cared about her so much that it was killing you to see her chasing other guys while you were in the friend zone. Even if you didn't flat out tell her, she could feel your pain and that's what triggered the friction and ultimate falling out.

Now here is the part that is going to hurt like hell, so brace yourself. The reason she is talking to you now, and is open to bringing you back into her life, is because she thinks you are over her, and because she needs a more reliable source of acceptance/validation - she wants to put you back onto her keychain, right next to her chapstick, to use you whenever she needs you. One characteristic of addiction is that the addict needs MORE and MORE of something. She has become more loose because she is doing whatever she has to in order to get more of her drug - the acceptance and validation of as many men as will give it to her. In addition, she is attracted to the type of guy who won't give it to her easily - it's like a more powerful drug when she finally does get it. Because your validation/acceptance of her is unconditional, you a perfect "plan b". You'll be there to catch her when shes feeling insecure, or is unable to get more of her drug. The problem is that she will not love you, or be able to love you, in the healthy sense. Why? Because she is so insecure and so self-loathing, that anyone who likes her quickly loses appeal to her. She doesn't care about you, she cares about the mild drug that you give her unconditionally - your validation and acceptance of her.

The situation isn't entirely hopeless, but before I get to my advice, you need to understand something about this type of girl. She is an addict, just like an alcoholic or heroine addict. If she is to love you in the healthy, selfless sense, then it will take her years, possibly decades, and possibly never. It will be when she takes the pathway that all addicts take - finding a power higher than herself, trusting in it, and rising above her addiction. Please note that in 99% of these cases, the healthy partner's life is ruined. If you stick with her, its quite possible that you will develop an unhealthy complex whereby you can't feel good about yourself unless you have her (and you may never get her fully). You need to be extremely careful. I know one guy who has had fair success at getting a girl like this, at an extreme price. Personally, I avoid these girls like the plague. Not because I don't value them, but because there is very little you can do for them and you may actually contribute to their problem. It's like telling a drug addict that you are going to help her by keeping a fresh supply of a lesser drug on hand at your house, so if she can't get her favorite drugs she can come over and use yours. It's better for addicts to hit rock bottom, on their own, and then on their own find peace. If you are hellbent on getting this girl (and it sounds like you are), you need to understand the price you will pay.

1. You will need to be ready to watch her, helplessly, as she chooses her addiction over you, again and again. She will become more dependent upon you, so she will try to keep stringing you along as if she cares about you, but she will keep choosing her drug over you - she will keep chasing other men. And you need to be there when she hits her lows. You need to be loving, patient and supportive. You need to not pressure her to be with you. You have to accept a strictly best friend role, even though you both know how you really feel about her.

2. Over time, she will begin to develop a genuine care for you. When this happens, she will push you away because she knows she will just hurt you. It's ironic, pushing you away is actually a sign that she is developing a real, selfless love for you. She might do or say terrible things in order to push you away, you have to take it like a man. You have to lovingly and patiently bear it all. You can't fight back, you can't play her game, you can't run away, you just have to take it.

So, here's what I would do:

Tell her frankly that you like her and want to be in a committed relationship with her. Tell her that nothing less will be enough for you. Tell her that friends isn't going to fly, nor will it ever fly, so if that's what you want then we're through forever in every regard. If she says "yes" and then cheats you on, break up with her and move on with life.

Now, here's what you should do if you want to keep her:

Tell her you like her but are ok to just be friends, and that you won't let it interfere with your friendship. Then be her friend for however many years it takes in order for her to get over her addiction and develop a healthy relationship with you. Over those years, be loving, kind, patient, and never leave her. Even when she sleeps with every other guy in the world, even when she pushes you away, just stick around and be her friend.

Sorry for the long post, but these typse of girls are complicated. Personally I would run for the hills and never look back, but since we both know you aren't going to do that, just follow my advice from above as long as you can take it. Good luck!

P.S. If you are going to choose the "be my girlfriend or I'm out" approach, take her to a nice restaraunt. If are going to take the "I'm your friend forever and will never leave you even though you may sink your teeth into my heart on a daily basis" approach, then I would just do something fun like a water park, skating, or some fun friendly activity.

[MerryH]

The reason you had a "falling out" eight months ago, is because she wanted to continue using you as her security blanket, while she pursued the acceptance and validation of other guys. You may not have realized it, but you genuinly cared about her so much that it was killing you to see her chasing other guys while you were in the friend zone. Even if you didn't flat out tell her, she could feel your pain and that's what triggered the friction and ultimate falling out.

That's a whole lot of unfavorable assumptions about this girl that you presented as fact. You speak as if you know her personally. The OP didn't explain the nature of their relationship at all except to say that they were friends so I'm not sure where you're getting all this.

OP, if I were you, I would make it clear that you want your meetup to be more like a date than old friends catching up. Do this on the second meetup if you feel that would be more appropriate. You will only land in the friends zone if you act like just a friend. You've got to make some moves. It might not work out the way you want it to, but at least you won't fall into being her "best friend" (who secretly loves her) again. If you get rejected, at least you can move on.

[IndiReloaded]

Splendid Gray, maybe you should start your own thread about your issues.

[thechampanon]

That's a whole lot of unfavorable assumptions about this girl that you presented as fact. You speak as if you know her personally. The OP didn't explain the nature of their relationship at all except to say that they were friends so I'm not sure where you're getting all this.

OP, if I were you, I would make it clear that you want your meetup to be more like a date than old friends catching up. Do this on the second meetup if you feel that would be more appropriate. You will only land in the friends zone if you act like just a friend. You've got to make some moves. It might not work out the way you want it to, but at least you won't fall into being her "best friend" (who secretly loves her) again. If you get rejected, at least you can move on.

Thanks. Also thanks for the immense effort Gray, but you did make an awful lot of assumptions haha.

But I think a "date" would definitely be more appropriate the second time around. I decided to go to an outlet mall.. unfortunately it may be storming so Idk.. get something to eat if that happens..

But yeah, thanks for the advice.

[VincenzoG91]

The fact that you know exactly how many months and days it has been is a clear sign that you aren't over her yet. I don't think that you should meet up with her at all unless you make it very clear that you are asking her out on a date. This is how you screwed up the first time around, you didn't make it clear that you were attracted to her and instead pretended to be her friend. That is dishonest and will only land you in the friend zone again, at best. Be honest, be direct, and ask her out. Then give it your best shot on the date. Don't try to play it safe and be her fake friend again, woo her. And if it doesn't work out this time, move on with your life and stop counting days.

[Gratedwasabi]

Bad call. You got friendzoned and think now that she's easy you're going to have better luck? Come on. She wants to catch up because she's been getting used by guys and would like to have positive reinforcement, you. Or she just misses you as a friend. It's not for you to get laid, though.

[devonbrown]

I agree with the others that you should definitely make it clear that it is a date, if that is what you want it to be. Otherwise, it will just be two old friends catching up. And you will be well on your way to friends-zone again. And if she doesn't want it to be a date, then you have to be prepared to move on. You can't chase her and you definitely shouldn't try to trick her into a date. Hanging out with her on the assumption you are old friends catching up instead of a date will make her feel trapped and not very open to spending any more time with you than she has to. I am not sure "outlet mall" says "date," so keep that in mind...

Good luck.

[thechampanon]

She said the mall idea would be awkward since we haven't spoken in 8 months and wants to go to Starbucks instead.

So that's what it'll be.

That probably doesn't say date at all. But to be fair, would someone REALLY go on a "date" with someone they haven't spoken with for eight entire months?

I feel like you catch up, then ask for the date the second time around, and if it isn't going to be a date, then screw it.

[ConniptionFit]

She said the mall idea would be awkward since we haven't spoken in 8 months and wants to go to Starbucks instead.

So that's what it'll be.

That probably doesn't say date at all. But to be fair, would someone REALLY go on a "date" with someone they haven't spoken with for eight entire months?

I feel like you catch up, then ask for the date the second time around, and if it isn't going to be a date, then screw it.

Unless you've completely revamped yourself with a new makeover, a new physique and a different personality, you are wasting your time. The fact that you ended up in the Friendzone the first time around is because she wasn't attracted to you. Chances are, she's still not going to find you attractive.

[thechampanon]

Well, we met at starbucks. It wasn't awkward at all surprisingly. Her friend came about an hour into our meeting though. I left around an hour later (one hour longer than I planned to stay)

(Un)fortunately it all seemed rather friendly. Not much more. She texted me a few hours ago, and we spoke for a few hours. Just general conversation.

So, where to from here? I'm thinking try to go on a date and then try to figure out if things have changed much. What do you all think?

And CFit, I am a bit different. Physique is stronger. I've put on 15 pounds of muscle, personality slightly different (confidence) and somewhat more elegant clothing choices. (Upgrade from American Eagle/Hollister crap to Express clothing).

[Gratedwasabi]

Well, we met at starbucks. It wasn't awkward at all surprisingly. Her friend came about an hour into our meeting though. I left around an hour later (one hour longer than I planned to stay)

(Un)fortunately it all seemed rather friendly. Not much more. She texted me a few hours ago, and we spoke for a few hours. Just general conversation.

So, where to from here? I'm thinking try to go on a date and then try to figure out if things have changed much. What do you all think?

And CFit, I am a bit different. Physique is stronger. I've put on 15 pounds of muscle, personality slightly different (confidence) and somewhat more elegant clothing choices. (Upgrade from American Eagle/Hollister crap to Express clothing).

Congratulations.. the horse is dead yet you're still swinging the bat.

She has absolutely no interest in you beyond being a friend. But good luck with that.

[MerryH]

So, where to from here? I'm thinking try to go on a date and then try to figure out if things have changed much. What do you all think?

Just ask her on a date. Use the word, "date." Here, I'll give you a loose script: "It was really cool catching up with you the other day. I'd like to see you again, but I was thinking it could be more like a date. Can I take you out to dinner on Friday?"

I don't know if she'll be into it, but you can't just leave it without making a move. I know everyone is telling you that it's a waste of time, but I think you'll hate yourself forever if you don't at least try. Once. Leave her alone for good if she rejects you. Don't be her friend.

Disclaimer: If you've ever made any sort of clear moves and she rejected you, you're probably wasting your time and shouldn't try again. But you never mentioned that, so I'm going on the idea that you've never done anything.