Why are nices guys unlucky in love?

[Mathias]

Why why why?? Why "[be] a bitch". And why is not ok to forgive you that?

Why do you have to "try out shit" all the time? And why do you have to test men all the time?

I don't understand. I really simply don't.

I am a genuinely good and quite guy. I simply cannot say no.


And funny enough my last gf was a Canadian one. When we met she was extremely insecure, because her ex cheated on her. She told me she is looking for a nice guy. Since day one she was testing me with all the usual female tricks.

I got abused, sweared at and emotionally bullied. I forgave her everything. I would always say "Baby you don't even have to say sorry".

But the more I would say that the more she would push me around. She even cheated! I forgave her that too. And then she started the "i need time and space". I went crazy and made her life a living hell. I called her names and verbally abused her.

And guess what happened? Suddenly she couldn't understand why a "good guy" like me wanted to hurt her. Suddenly I was not a good guy anymore?!? I was a bad person!?!

I know its bad to generalize but all women in my life have been like this. They take take take, and when it is time to give back they are quick to sat NO. Not only girlfriends but female friends as well.

So +1 to the OP for his nice question.

A

And you don't see why allowing yourself to be pushed around is a bad idea?

[ForMadmenOnly]

And you don't see why allowing yourself to be pushed around is a bad idea?

No. Because I am not looking for somebody who will want to push me around. I am looking somebody who can appreciate that. And if they don't well they can f*ck off.

hmmm... ok yea I see your point. I should have given her the boot earlier. And I guess then I wouldn't be a push over... Good point.

Bad I guess I am too romantic. Maybe a dreamer. I believe in soul mates. In people who can build something together through openness and mutual respect and forgiveness. Stupid me!

[smackie9]

There has to be a good balance of give and take, attention and ignore, calm and aggressive, sensitive and strength, etc. Girls/women do want a guy to stand up and be the one to make the decisions, take the lead, but on the flip side able to respect their opinion, and to take their suggestions into consideration if needed. Be somewhere in between pushover and jerk.

If you are being taken for granted by these girls, that means they are not "earning" your attention, you are giving up too easily which is a mistake nice guys make. If they don't give back, they are users, attention whores, cock teasers, etc....they need to be put in their place by you saying NO! And when you don't put up with it, as soon as you walk away in a lot of cases they try to earn your attention. Nice guys are usually scared to make this step thinking they will lose the girl, but it does work that way.....once ya get the hang of it, you will be able to control the situation and don't get burned.

[ForMadmenOnly]

There has to be a good balance of give and take, attention and ignore, calm and aggressive, sensitive and strength, etc. Girls/women do want a guy to stand up and be the one to make the decisions, take the lead, but on the flip side able to respect their opinion, and to take their suggestions into consideration if needed. Be somewhere in between pushover and jerk.

If you are being taken for granted by these girls, that means they are not "earning" your attention, you are giving up too easily which is a mistake nice guys make. If they don't give back, they are users, attention whores, cock teasers, etc....they need to be put in their place by you saying NO! And when you don't put up with it, as soon as you walk away in a lot of cases they try to earn your attention. Nice guys are usually scared to make this step thinking they will lose the girl, but it does work that way.....once ya get the hang of it, you will be able to control the situation and don't get burned.

They question is why do you have to do all the above?? And why would you? If a girl cannot appreciate you the way you are, then there is no reason trying to "handle" her in order to make them want you. They don't deserve what they get if you have to do that.

My 2p

[r4mbo]

I see myself as a Nice guy, people who meet me will comment on it. My friends know that I'm a good guy, like to have some fun and a laugh.
When it came to the girl I dated recently though I made a load of mistakes. Simple things like initially thinking, wow she's hot could she really like me??
I ended up saying silly things to her occasionally like I hope that I don't piss her off texting her or hope that she wasn't finding me pushy because I used to say I wanted to see her.
Problem was it's very hard to know exactly what someone is thinking and I think with most women they think the man is meant to know this somehow.
Reading this thread and just generally thinking about it that I would appear clingy or be looking for approval. The exact things an assertive girl doesn't want and apparently a big turn off!?
I like to be open/genuine and honest with my opinions and the things I want. If women and for example the girl I dated recently had of been like that then at least I/we would know where we stand from the start and what we are looking for.

I made a big mistake of not jumping into bed with the girl when she offered it to me on a plate but surely me saying I preferred to wait until we knew each other more is only a sign that I had respect for her. Why should I now feel guilty that she would think I wasn't really into her? Or for example when I didn't touch her intimately straight away when kissing because I didn't want to offend her. I ended up realising that's what she wanted and asked her if she minded to which she replied of course not. (that could have then been perceived as a turn off for her because I had to ask) Had I been a jerk I would have just jumped in and with this particular girl that would have been fine but not all women are like that so it makes things very confusing.

Worst of it all a jerk can dive in and it may pay off, if it doesn't he wouldn't give a crap about her feelings and it would be left there.

A nice guy on the other hand wants to take things a little slower and show respect and he gets the boot. To top it off as he's a nice guy he ends up getting hurt.

[ForMadmenOnly]

..she's hot could she really like me?...I hope that I don't piss her off texting her or hope that she wasn't finding me pushy...I like to be open/genuine and honest with my opinions and the things I want....not jumping into bed...I didn't touch her intimately straight away when kissing because I didn't want to offend her....

You must be my twin.

Exactly what women don't want. No matter how much they say the want it. THEY DON'T want it.

Pity that there aren't women out there for us losers :-)

[derums]

So I know this is a pretty lengthy thread. This is coming from a guy who used to be a nice guy but is now a good guy. Be pleasant not nice. Nice guys do not speak their truths and allow themselves to be walked over. Pleasant is wielding power with absolute precision. Being Nice is letting people have their way without letting yourself have a say. You should Always have the say first. You may want to look into a couple of books about this: One is Codependent no More. The reason you're nice is that you want to please other people. But you need to realize as I have, that the only thing you can and should control is you. Men that are attractive, you will also notice are Non-reactive. They do not seek anything from others. They don't get teased cause no one gets the response of reactivity that they seek from teasing. See it's actually something everyone has, Codependence but nice people more than they should. Don't you ever end up feeling like a victim because you do for others to the point that you neglect yourself. Don't you feel upset and resentful but realize that you are the one to blame for not setting boundaries? It is as simple as learning 2 behaviors: 1 always ask yourself IS THIS WHAT I WANT. 2. Say NO if it isn't. Also don't think you cannot change, cause that is a myth, you are as strong as what you decide to use now. You may be afraid of being authoritative because you may think that power corrupts. But we're talking about power in your own life, not absolutist control over resources or a country or anything that could go to your head! Read Personal Development for Smart People by Steve pavlina to learn about the importance of balance in exercising power in your own life. Life is too short to be a shinking daisy, choose to be a lion and yet find the balance to have a heart of gold for those that deserve your compassion. Look into Mind OS by Dr. Paul. about setting boundaries. Once you develop love for yourself, boundaries, and learn to exercise your power others will see that you are a strong person, and you will be confident. Then you will also be more attractive.

[Wakeup]

Why why why?? Why "[be] a bitch". And why is not ok to forgive you that?

Why do you have to "try out shit" all the time? And why do you have to test men all the time?

It's not like we do it on purpose ... as I said half the time we don't even know we're being unreasonable. It's up to you to kindly tell us when we are being unreasonable. You don't have to go along with us if you don't want to, but you do have to compromise and sometimes go along with us. Same of us with you. It's called a happy balance. Why would you want to always give a woman her way and never get what you want. That's what "nice" guys do. They over accomodate to the point where you become boring and predictible to us.

I am a genuinely good and quite guy. I simply cannot say no.

And how is that working out for you so far? Get reading up on how to be assertive, Read books on confidence. "The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People" might be a good read for you. As as the poster above recommends.. "Codependent No More" for sure.

And funny enough my last gf was a Canadian one. When we met she was extremely insecure, because her ex cheated on her. She told me she is looking for a nice guy. Since day one she was testing me with all the usual female tricks.

Do you tell her what she's doing? Do you tell her that you don't appreciate her doing those things she does because if makes you not trust her to be grown up enough or over her baggage to be a good partner or, do you just say "yes dear" and try even harder to please her.. treating her like a princess that she is not?

I got abused, sweared at and emotionally bullied. I forgave her everything. I would always say "Baby you don't even have to say sorry".

You disgust me.. lol joking (kinda). Do you think catering to her like that is a masculine trait? That she would think that you could protect her in a dangerous situation? You can't even protect yourself from her and her abusive shit.

But the more I would say that the more she would push me around. She even cheated! I forgave her that too. And then she started the "i need time and space". I went crazy and made her life a living hell. I called her names and verbally abused her.

You need therapy (sorry, but you have a real problem)

And guess what happened? Suddenly she couldn't understand why a "good guy" like me wanted to hurt her. Suddenly I was not a good guy anymore?!? I was a bad person!?!

You see...you taught her to not like you. You're not a bad person you are a insecure woose. Sorry, I'm sure you don't mean to be but you do need to work on yourself so that you don't cling to woman who do not respect you and you need to let them know that if they don't value you, you will leave their broken ass.

I know its bad to generalize but all women in my life have been like this. They take take take, and when it is time to give back they are quick to sat NO. Not only girlfriends but female friends as well.

Yea well, you give, give, give what do you expect?

So +1 to the OP for his nice question.

Yes, I hate to see people like you being taken advantage of and abused. Start working on yourself, your self worth and confidence and quit thinking that every woman deserves what you give. Not all of them deserve and you need to be able to distinguise

Being in a happy healthy relationship where both people respect one another means both people have to be caring to the other but loving enough to not ruin the relationship by giving into unreasonable demands and princess/prince like behaviour of entitlement.

P.S. Great post "Derums"

[MynameisJesus]

Oh gag me with a fvcking spoon. You see. That is one of the reasons that "nice" guys don't get the chick. If you can't see how pathetic and unattractive that statement just made you then you need some personal therapy to boost up your own confidence and sense of self worth.

Another Newsflash: Woman worth having WILL NOT STAY WITH A MAN THAT IS ALL THOSE HORRIBLE THINGS YOU MENTION. if she stays for the long haul with someone who treats her that way in general then she has more psychological issues then you'd want to live with yourself.

Asshole guys are'nt assholes right from the beginning... they play the good guy until the chick is hooked and if she has any selfworth she'll not stay with him for long.

Feel better now?

I'm not saying you're wrong with this quote, but some good women really do fall for these assholes. They are good women but they need a lot of time to realize how wrong it is what they are doing.
Young women tend to misunderstand the difference between a good guy with an edge, and a complete asshole.

As years go by and those women improve their self worth, I believe some succeed in making a distinction between those 2 types of men.
But it can take a whole lot of years. I met many women like that in college. Smart women with qualities

Women want a good guy with an edge.

But what can that edge be? Cheating on her because of a weak moment is an edge.
The bad guy will cheat on her consistently and she'll end up mistaking him for a good guy with an edge.

" It's my fault. I should have given him more sex.. " etc etc

Is beating her an edge? " Well I insulted him and he had a hard day at work "
Bad timing, unlucky momentum is what they say then. Time for make up sex

In theory the whole nice guy - good guy - bad guy concept sounds interesting but in reality they are hard to separate

You refer to " Women worth having". What would be their characteristics?

There are women out there with a lot of great qualities, but lacking self worth and self esteem. I know dozens of them
Being in relationships with complete lazy respectless assholes but failing to step out of it bc of various reasons.
Kids, finances, family pressure, not daring to kick the long lasting habit. A lot of psychological stuff

I wonder what you mean with women "not worth having" then

[ForMadmenOnly]

Yea well, you give, give, give what do you expect?

You represent exactly the kind of people I hate in this earth!

I expect give back, give back, give back.

So sorry that you see this as unreasonable.

[smackie9]

They question is why do you have to do all the above?? And why would you? If a girl cannot appreciate you the way you are, then there is no reason trying to "handle" her in order to make them want you. They don't deserve what they get if you have to do that.

My 2p

That is how people in general will respond to you as a person and not just for attracting women, but earning respect. It's how the human brain responds to certain actions. To a certain degree you expect girls to act a certain way as well ie: gentle, feminine, nurturing,freindly, etc. A good example is how it was in high school, popular vs unpopular. Meek nerds got pushed around by the confident, and outgoing. A lot of this is discussed in detail,in the video/book "The Secret".

[ForMadmenOnly]

That is how people in general will respond to you as a person and not just for attracting women, but earning respect. It's how the human brain responds to certain actions. To a certain degree you expect girls to act a certain way as well ie: gentle, feminine, nurturing,freindly, etc. A good example is how it was in high school, popular vs unpopular. Meek nerds got pushed around by the confident, and outgoing. A lot of this is discussed in detail,in the video/book "The Secret".

I agree with you smackie9.

But I am not complaining, well maybe I did but was not right, that women don't like me for who I am.

I am complaining about women taking advantage of who I am. I complain about women seeing that I am a nice guy, taking as much as they can and then telling me its my fault when they get bored, although they enjoyed everything I gave to them. That is what I find unfair. Which is again of course my fault. I shouldn't let them do it in the first place.

But you know how easily people can be tricked and think: "This is the one!".

[MynameisJesus]

I know its bad to generalize but all women in my life have been like this. They take take take, and when it is time to give back they are quick to sat NO. Not only girlfriends but female friends as well.

So +1 to the OP for his nice question.

A

I know it's bad to generalize but..... let's do it anyway

It is the simple rule of cause and effect. People take take take because YOU keep giving. Regardless of what they do
I have been like you too. But I am working hard to step out of it.

" Hey man can I have your notes? My PC crashed yesterday and I have a test soon "
And then you ask something back and they don't have time.

This is where your self worth comes in. Women feel you give give give and they exploit it.
STOP GIVING stuff for no reason dude!!!!!

And there is no reason to go after people on this forum because they tell you the naked truth, which is that you are a pushover AT THIS POINT.
Face it and do something about it

You have exactly 2 options

1) You drown in your own self pity and moan to people with good intentions. And you'll keep failing in relationships
2) You improve your self worth like me, stop idolizing worthless women that you're attracted to because they don't have the issues you have. And slowly but surely you'll gain succes.

If you shoot me a private message with your email address, I can send you very high quality audio files to change your mindset like I am changing mine.

[ForMadmenOnly]

you are a insecure woose

I think you need to apologize here. Even if you think that, you can't go ahead and say it out loud.

I have formed an opinion about you as well. And I can tell you it is not flattering but I am not stating it in public.

I appreciate your thoughts and arguments but you should keep the personal characterizations out of the way. Things like that can result in an inflammatory reply.

[MynameisJesus]

I agree with you smackie9.

But I am not complaining, well maybe I did but was not right, that women don't like me for who I am.

I am complaining about women taking advantage of who I am. I complain about women seeing that I am a nice guy, taking as much as they can and then telling me its my fault when they get bored, although they enjoyed everything I gave to them. That is what I find unfair. Which is again of course my fault. I shouldn't let them do it in the first place.

But you know how easily people can be tricked and think: "This is the one!".

I don't doubt your qualities and your good intentions.
I believe you are strong enough to stop being a pushover like I was and still am at times.
But you have to start recognizing these situations where you are being taken advantage of and anticipate on it.

Cause and effect. Treating you badly leads to still being rewarded for it ==> Women treat you badly
Step out of it. Create a new image.

It is possible. Shoot me a PM and I'll show you how