The last Skype conversation between me and my ex-bf

[Candy_bar]

Here is my last conversation with my Ex-BF. We have broken up for 3 months now. I just want to
show this to someone and get some of your views on this relationship based on this conversation,
if you could spend some time, any frank/general comments will help (you don't have to care about
my feelings.)

Background: We are college schoolmates, I was his first GF. He's Asian American and a really good
writer whereas I am an international student.

Let me know if you want some additional information.
[ 10:06:24 PM] Ex-GF: Just wanna say some feelings, do you mind?
[ 10:06:49 PM] Ex-BF: No, go on
[ 10:07:22 PM] Ex-GF: To be more precise, I want to know your feelings. Do you mind saying?
[ 10:08:07 PM] Ex-BF: My feelings on what?
[ 10:10:00 PM] Ex-GF: It has been really hard every time I see you, there's always spurs of emotions
[ 10:11:02 PM] Ex-GF: I want to know if this is the same for you
[ 10:18:40 PM] Ex-BF: When I see you, I feel like you're a stranger. We've really only known each other as boyfriend and girlfriend, never as friends. So I don't know very well how to react either.
[ 10:21:35 PM] Ex-BF: But yes, I don't feel the boyfriend-and-girlfriend feelings. Perhaps because I was the one to break first and such a decision needs those feelings to be sequestered.
[ 10:22:02 PM] Ex-GF: hmm
[ 10:22:41 PM] Ex-GF: This is some totally new experience.
[ 10:23:14 PM] Ex-GF: I never felt much when I was the one to break up either.
[ 10:24:00 PM] Ex-GF: But I thought that was because the relationships were short and/or long-distance
[ 10:24:50 PM] Ex-GF: It is disappointing to hear this though.
[ 10:26:20 PM] Ex-BF: You were looking for something to rebuild from?
[ 10:26:33 PM] Ex-GF: Not really, partly maybe.
[ 10:26:55 PM] Ex-GF: I don't think you are a good boyfriend
[ 10:27:14 PM] Ex-GF: But it's just hard to get over with
[ 10:28:21 PM] Ex-BF: You're ridiculous
[ 10:28:38 PM] Ex-GF: I know that perfectly well.
[ 10:28:57 PM] Ex-GF: The same to you.
[ 10:29:37 PM] Ex-BF: I'm saying your 'don't think you are a good boyfriend' line is ridiculous
[ 10:29:42 PM] Ex-GF: I just.. ah.. don't think I have loved someone this much before.
[ 10:29:46 PM] Ex-GF: That is not
[ 10:31:40 PM] Ex-BF: There's no point in saying it. If you're saying it as a neutral observation, it tells me nothing. If you're saying it to slight me, that's even worse.
[ 10:32:07 PM] Ex-GF: It is neutral trust me.
[ 10:33:04 PM] Ex-BF: Then say _why_ it's the case
[ 10:33:09 PM] Ex-GF: I knew you would respond this way.
[ 10:35:26 PM] Ex-GF: It's the case because you did not know when's the perfect point to start a relationship, you were not prepared, you were not respectful and you were judgmental all the time.
[ 10:36:44 PM] Ex-GF: You only expected the good things from a relationship and from me but were totally pissed by my shortcomings.
[ 10:39:55 PM] Ex-BF: What would be a 'perfect point' to start? I entered unprepared but became prepared, and that's the reason I can broke with you without regret. I felt you were not respectful and in fact flatly insensitive—that's why I was so pissed. And 'judgmental' is nothing but title for one who's telling you something about yourself that you don't want to hear, whether it's right or wrong.
[ 10:41:03 PM] Ex-BF: It's not that I was put off by just any shortcoming whatsoever. It's that you say things in ways that are scathing and insensitive.
[ 10:41:23 PM] Ex-GF: Ya
[ 10:41:25 PM] Ex-GF: I know
[ 10:41:58 PM] Ex-GF: And they deserve those criticisms from you
[ 10:42:52 PM] Ex-GF: And you were so sensitive that you could not see I made so many compromises
[ 10:43:59 PM] Ex-BF: It doesn't matter what compromises you made; the insensitivity was categorically intolerable. It's not something to be compensated for.
[ 10:44:50 PM] Ex-GF: I see as such you put morality and idealism as your personal interests.
[ 10:45:19 PM] Ex-BF: I see as such you put cost-benefit compensation as your personal interest
[ 10:46:13 PM] Ex-BF: Things can be subtracted and added for you. Not so for me. That is where our difference lies, and such a difference is irreconcilable.
[ 10:47:01 PM] Ex-GF: As if I was all about subtracting and adding things and finding excuses, and excuses for you all the time
[ 10:47:22 PM] Ex-BF: I don't follow
[ 10:50:14 PM] Ex-GF: As if I did not try to change myself for you, to suit your taste, to tell you I am willing to change to save this relationship..
[ 10:52:20 PM] Ex-GF: And things like me being reprimanded for playing with a fork at the table when we dined together to the point of tears – flatly insensitive and disrespectful
[ 10:53:34 PM] Ex-BF: The relationship would have had the potential for preservation only if you remedied your insensitivity because you truly believed it should be done, not because you wanted to save the relationship.
[ 10:54:23 PM] Ex-GF: Of course I believed it. You doubt it?
[ 10:54:49 PM] Ex-BF: You continue to be insensitive, so I doubt it.
[ 10:55:41 PM] Ex-GF: the relationship would have had the potential for preservation only if it was not someone as demanding, inflexible, cold and self-centered as you are
[ 10:55:42 PM] Ex-BF: Telling me to return library books I put on my account for _your_ convenience because you didn't want to walk.
[ 10:56:05 PM] Ex-GF: ya the recent example..
[ 10:56:19 PM] Ex-GF: I knew what effect it would have on you
[ 10:56:40 PM] Ex-BF: As usual, you don't try to discuss the subject matter. You just keep trying to win the discussion
[ 11:00:01 PM] Ex-BF: In any case, I look for Ms. Right, and you weren't Ms. Right. You have your thoughts. I reserve mine. There is nothing to rebuild, and I'm sorry I had to be first to propose breaking.
[ 11:00:24 PM] Ex-GF: What if I tell you, I recalled the book because in case that we cannot have lunch together I would at least have a chance to see you
[ 11:01:20 PM] Ex-BF: If that had truly been your intention, the books would now be in your possession, not mine.
[ 11:01:49 PM] Ex-GF: And you don't believe me
[ 11:02:07 PM] Ex-BF: I need to handle laundry. Back in a few
[ 11:09:36 PM] Ex-BF: Right, apologies.
[ 11:12:53 PM] Ex-GF: At least I cared so much for you
[ 11:13:16 PM] Ex-GF: It doesn't matter, I am adding and subtracting again
[ 11:13:22 PM] Ex-BF: The library thing isn't a matter of belief. If it really had been a proxy to see me, _you_ should be the one returning the books, not me. Otherwise, it wouldn't be a proxy. And I said when we ran into each other that I would call you with an answer in the evening.
[ 11:13:35 PM] Ex-BF: Adding what?
[ 11:13:45 PM] Ex-GF: it's fine
[ 11:14:39 PM] Ex-GF: Ya you did, but I still did the stupid thing
[ 11:15:14 PM] Ex-GF: and I really wanted to walk with you to the library to return the books today, if you could let me
[ 11:15:47 PM] Ex-BF: Why didn't you say so?
[ 11:15:53 PM] Ex-GF: ha
[ 11:16:32 PM] Ex-GF: You said if there's nothing else, we should part
[ 11:16:44 PM] Ex-GF: and the supermarket seemed to be the last stop
[ 11:16:49 PM] Ex-GF: I should not ask for more
[ 11:17:26 PM] Ex-BF: If you really meant that, there clearly was something else
[ 11:18:04 PM] Ex-GF: For someone as insensitive and lazy as me, how could I really mean that??
[ 11:18:18 PM] Ex-GF: You don't understand
[ 11:18:47 PM] Ex-BF: I'm saying that if you really wanted to walk with me, it clearly wasn't the case that 'there was nothing else'
[ 11:18:49 PM] Ex-GF: I want to spend the whole day with you if I could
[ 11:19:08 PM] Ex-GF: whatever you do I would love to follow..
[ 11:21:08 PM] Ex-GF: And I cannot express myself in front of you, I run out of words to say, I fumble a lot, I made myself have to leave
[ 11:24:22 PM] Ex-GF: AND everytime I turned away I cried you know, today, the day you put away my bike, I was behind, I could not go near
[ 11:34:21 PM] Ex-BF: Then I am sorry. Love is of feelings, and if those feelings are yours, you have my deep gratitude for sharing them. But feelings alone cannot sustain a life together. Love nourishes a person, but it has no bearing on the kind of life two people will create. That life comes from the duet of the two's habits and actions, and even the strongest love would be hard pressed to change what time has engrained in them. Perhaps feelings alone are enough for you—I honour that. But I need to have both the feelings and the life.
[ 11:52:15 PM] Ex-BF: Do you need some time?
[ 11:52:46 PM] Ex-GF: In your theory, you have the right to decide what matters to you and what you believe the life form should be -- only that reality is more subtle (thankfully) than your theory. It takes time for you to realize what life may really mean, I am not the person to witness your new discovery. Of course I know my words do not make much sense to you and I make myself sound ridiculous again by saying these. I am not trying to win you back, and you are, just as I figured, quite stubborn and defensive about your theory and the notion that you have the 'right' views on me, yourself and us. It's hard, but I have to accept the fact that you are not feeling as awful as I am. But sure, have the way you want, and all the best.
[12:07:22 AM] Ex-BF: (1) This does not sound ridiculous, and it actually makes sense. This is much more the least ridiculous kind of discourse, because you are sincerely helping me understand your view of the world—in a way that 'You're wrong.' and 'You're a bad boyfriend.' do not.

(2) I believe I have made enough sense of life that I have convictions and principles that either must be followed or must be overcome by this sort of discussion or some special life event. Neither of these has happened yet.

(3) It is misleading to say that I think I am right and you are wrong. 'Right' and 'wrong' tend to be absolute (not relative) criteria. Yet it is relative criteria that matter in this sort of discussion and in convincing people of principles. What is true, then, is that

(a) I am more convinced that my principles and way of life are right for me than that yours are right for me. For ME. Certainly not for you;

(b) In holding to my own principles and way of life, I do not impose them on you;

(d) If a life between two people is to be good,
[12:10:15 AM] Ex-BF: Disregard that last line.

(c) A life based on my principles and way of life conflicts with a life based on your way of life, and the conflict has been the cause of my unhappiness;

[d] If a life between two people is to be good, there must be no such conflict. This means that the conflict must either not exist in the first place (that is, our ways of life do not conflict) or be resolved (by a sufficiently convincing discussion, by a special event, etc.)
[12:22:22 AM] Ex-GF: Hope the conflict that you don't experience when you first encounter a person (or even an old friend) and fall in love with her does not surface as you explore on, as you see her in day-to-day life, as you have to deal with real life complexities and as she becomes dumb when talking to you and demanding as time goes in your relationship.
[12:24:00 AM] Ex-BF: (4) I know this hurts you and seems an immense unfairness and that you feel you have compromised and lost a great deal in our time together. I would gladly bear this burden in your stead if I could. If it's any consolation, perhaps someone else will drive me into bearing a similar burden.

(5) Unless I change my way of life or you change your way of life, we cannot be together. And neither of us must lose his self in the process of this change, which means we must believe that such a change is right without consideration of the other person. On the other hand, the conflict between our ways of life is presently so large that it will _seem_ the one who has changed has become another person. In reality, though, he, of the same identity as before and still the same person, will merely have seen more clearly the basis of a way of life.

(6) Given my current principles and way of life, the only way I can see you is as a friend or as a stranger and if you see me in the same manner. Not as a boyfriend. Not as someone who leads you to act on your affections. You may have your affections, but do not act on them, or else we will both be hurt like today.

(7) If we are not to be strangers and we are to be friends, we must always strive for the utmost clarity and sincerity in speaking to each other on serious topics. Any other manner of speaking for such topics is ridiculous.
[12:29:42 AM] Ex-GF: [12:24 AM] Ex-BF:

<<< Unless I change my way of life or you change your way of life, we cannot be together.
[12:30:07 AM] Ex-GF: Changes take time.
[12:30:22 AM] Ex-GF: Are you referring to the end result?
[12:30:43 AM] Ex-GF: You must be, because I did try.
[12:31:58 AM] Ex-BF: Yes, I am referring to the end result. The change must have completed or have a good chance of being completed.
[12:32:52 AM] Ex-GF: Alright. I need some time to digest today's conversation.
[12:33:46 AM] Ex-GF: And time for me to think if I would want you as a friend.
[12:36:17 AM] Ex-BF: That is perhaps less a decision to be based on abstract thought and more a natural gravitation based on genuine interaction.
[12:38:00 AM] Ex-BF: And I have come to believe that a good life is possible for two lovers only if they are also friends. Boyfriend/girlfriend is based on the feelings of love. Friendship (in its truest form, at least) is based on respect for the other's principles and way of life.
[12:41:19 AM] Ex-GF: Don't ignore the fact you are not an easy person to befriend with (just a kind reminder).
[12:41:22 AM] Ex-BF: (Going back to the thing about end results—if this clarification will help—, the reason that end results matter (while trying without results does not matter) is that whether the ways of life conflict or don't conflict is based on end results. Ways of life conflict if putting the two together produces an unhappy life, which is an end result)
[12:41:39 AM] Ex-BF: Friendship is not supposed to be easy
[12:42:48 AM] Ex-BF: For two people to completely open their hearts and convictions to each other—and then to respect what they see—is a rare thing.
[12:43:39 AM] Ex-GF: Hope you don't need to spend extra long to find that person then.
[12:44:52 AM] Ex-GF: Unless a life of waiting for Ms Right is deemed happier
[12:48:43 AM] Ex-BF: In the case Ms. Right will not emerge, I know that searching—not waiting—till death will be less of an unhappiness and a shame than what can only be self-deception.
[12:49:20 AM] Ex-GF: I need to go to bed now
[12:49:27 AM] Ex-GF: Good luck on your search
[12:49:55 AM] Ex-BF: Fly safely and take care of yourself.
[12:50:00 AM] Ex-GF: Thank you.

[bulrush]

You broke up with him. Why beat a dead horse? Why obsess over what he said if you are no longer a couple? What IS the point of this post?

Did you even learn something from the relationship? That's all that can be hoped for. Maybe learn about yourself, or guys, or types of guys that are not good for you.

[searock]

Ugh I can only say that I would hate a guy who talked to me like that. As if I were a silly little girl who doesn't get it. I say you're lucky to be rid of him.

[stuckies]

never mind the relationship - I gave up reading halfway through - Question. What was the purpose of your conversation?

[Dune]

The way he discusses things sounds pretty condescending.. It's like he is right even in being wrong. Stubborn.

But as mentioned by one of the commenters above, there is absolutely no point in analyzing this convo. It's over. Keep the change and move on. What else is there that can be done?

[IndiReloaded]

I'm not reading all that. Summary?

[Bo]

You two sound totally disconnected. It's done, move on.