Lessons I Wish Someone Smacked Into Me Six Months Ago

[ChrisMac]

So as one or two of you have read in my other post, three weeks ago I moved to another country to start a new life with a great new job and to be with a girl I'd been long-distance dating for the prior six months, and within five days she broke up with me.

Part of this was due to the ex she'd broken up with a few weeks before meeting me popping back into her life while I was away for two months and constantly asking for her back for weeks on end -- and she didn't turn him away -- and part of it came from a deep insecurity I experienced in these two months between finishing school and starting my new life abroad. This was very much unlike my usual self, but I was stuck in a desolate place alone with zero friends around and miserable parents, and it crushed my usual self-confidence. Details are in my prior post for anyone who cares.

The net result of these two issues? I'm single again. And I've learned a few very important facts. Had I known these six months ago, I believe my life at present would be far different.

1) If there's an ex lurking in the background, just walk away. Especially if you're in an LDR. A girl who is over her ex and ready to be in love again will not continue to tolerate multiple contacts from him if she's with me. If she continues to receive his emails and respond to them multiple times, it's either because she's really, really needy, or (more likely) isn't over him yet. And if a girl isn't done being in love with another guy, no matter how great you are she isn't going to be able to make you a priority

As the guy in this situation, you're going to sense this and no matter how fun, romantic, and self-confident you are, it's going to affect your ego and sense of confidence in the relationship, and it's going to throw you off your game. And the more worried and insecure you get, the less attracted to you she's going to be -- with her initial attraction already capped off at "semi-moderate" due to the ex hanging around.

Girls are not driven in their attraction by romance and kindness. This is just a fact. There's nothing wrong with this, but what the *intellect* says is best (a smart guy with a good income and open heart) is rarely what's going to be the guy she obsesses on the most. If it was, every girl in high school would have a crush on the biggest geek.

Instead, girls (and guys too, probably), want someone who puts them as "nice to have but not required". A guy who pushes them away at times, who proves a challenge from time to time, not because he's *mean* but because he has multiple other priorities in life, is going to maximize her attraction. It seems to just be how girls are wired. Once a guy fully commits and makes her more important than anything else in life, the challenge is gone and attraction will drop, and if it continues, the "we need a break" will happen.

I screwed up because I drove the commitment to this girl. I told her I was moving to her country because I wanted to get serious and see where our relationship goes. I sent her flowers. I got upset about the ex sticking around. I stayed with her my first week there with nowhere else to go. I didn't put her aside for local friends in the area or other activities. And to her, all the challenge was gone. I needed to let her worry, to miss me at times, to get jealous... to *need* me, and by putting her first I denied her all of that emotional fun. And lo and behold, "I've lost my attraction for you."

Certain BS "love gurus" like the guy who wrote "The System" say once "Interest" drops below a certain threshold and she says "we need a break" it can never be regained. Others say that if you go full NC interest can be rebuilt, and if she comes back, which many will, as long as you can stay confident and maintain your own life and other activities you may be able to make it work.

As this happened over the month I was away and her ex was hitting on her and it got worse when I came back (I was living with her for nine days), I doubt it can be repaired. I still love her, but can I get her attraction back up? Probably not. At midnight two nights ago, after having ignored her for a week, I get a single FB message from her saying just "I miss you...". Like a chump, I waited a day not sure how to respond, and finally the next night just sent back "I know how you feel, love. ". This acheived nothing for me and I regretted it as soon as I sent it. No Contact means No Contact. Unless she says explicitly "I f*&%ed up and want to make it work", she gets nothing from here on out.

What's going to happen now to me? I'd say:

3% Chance: She comes back after a few weeks or months of NC and it works out between us now that I've found my foundation here in this new city and don't need to act like a clingy wuss that I'd become between finishing school and starting my new life. She broke up with the guy who wasn't me, when I was at the lowest point of my life, and as I'm back to normal now the attraction may be reattainable.

7% Chance: She comes back and we give it a go and it works for a few days or weeks, maybe we sleep together once or twice, but even though I once again have a life and have lost all my neediness -- I'm my old fun and confident and dynamic and exciting self -- we can't get back to what we had because of the broken trust from the breakup.

90% Chance: We each move on. Having learned the need to take it slow and always let the girl make the decisions to "progress" the relationshop, I date for awhile and find a great relationship a few girls down the line, while she gets back together with her ex, maybe it fails for the third time, maybe they work it out, but we stay apart, and for good reason.

My only advice to everyone out there is this:

1) If there's still an ex around, just walk away.

2) If she's broken up with her ex less than three months ago, be very, very cautious that he's not still around.

3) Always let the girl be the one who drives the relationship.

4) Never let any relationship be the only priority in your life.

5) If a girl starts to show *any* sign of pulling away or fighting with you, pull away more until she returns to her normal self, laughing at all your jokes and needing you more than you need her.

6) If a she does start to show the warning signs, never ask what's wrong. She will never want to tell you she's losing her attraction for you, and you're just going to come off as even more insecure.

Once you're in love and enough time has passed, you won't have to worry about these rules as they'll come naturally, but I'm not sure there's an expiration date on any of them. I've read and seen relationships fall apart after 7+ years due to ignoring the above, and it looks like people just have to be able to always maintain their own lives. I'm sure there are exceptions, but no one should think that they're special. I did. And I was wrong.

Cheers.

[HeartIsAching]

Those were all the wrong lessons to take from your experience.

1. Insecurity and distrust cause problems. If you're insecure or don't trust your partner, end the relationship for both of your sakes.

2. See #1

3. Nobody gets to drive the relationship. Healthy relationships are equal partnerships.

4. LDR suck. Find someone in your area instead.

5. Instead of using passive-aggressive bullshit to force a woman to do what you want, try communicating with her instead.

6. See #5

[ChrisMac]

Curious what gender you are, HIA. I've been analyzing and re-analyzing what we both did, my past relationships, and others I've seen out there -- friends and online randoms -- and I stand by what I wrote.

1. Of course insecurity and distrust cause problems. But for two months she brought up that her ex was trying to get her back, and I remained secure, trusting her, just laughing and repeating each time that she needs to cut him off or he won't give up. She always assured me that she would, but every time two weeks later she'd "confess" to me that he was trying again. And when I was away for two more months, this only got worse until I couldn't help wonder what the hell was going on. The fact is that she still had feelings for him, and no amount of "being secure" on my part was going to resolve this.

3. This sounds nice but it just ain't true. If things are going well and a girl asks to take a relationship to the next stage -- whether it's becoming exclusive, moving in together, or whatever else -- the guy will generally go along with it if he cares for her, and be happy about it. If the guy does the same, "Baby, I want you to start calling me your boyfriend", "baby, I want to move in with you", it's just considered more weak and will be somewhat of a turnoff for her. Women *like* to be challenged to move the relationship along and that's great -- they shouldn't be refused this challenge.

4. I couldn't help the LDR. I finished school but had two months back home in Toronto to pack my stuff and wait for the visa in her country, and we messaged constantly but she felt terrible. She told me she'd never done an LDR before, but could manage 2 months. I constantly told her how much I cared about her to make it easier for her. This was the wrong move. But #4 wasn't even about LDR's, it was about finding your own hobbies and friends and interests and never making them a lower priority for anyone.

5-6. Some girls are great communicators. They sit and have dinner with you and tell you all their hopes and dreams and concerns. And when you do something that bothers them they'll let you know so you can fix it. Soe girls have deep communication or trust issues, though, and don't say what's on their mind as well as they fear conflict. These aren't *worse* girls, necessarily, just different types. And you can reason with them all you want, and tell them you care, and want to hear their thoughts, but in the end what they really want is the excitement of going through life with someone who has his own dreams and hopes, some of which are about her, but many of which are his own that she gets to ride along for. And this is perfectly healthy.

What's *not* healthy is making one person your priority above all else, to the point where you lose sight of the other things in life you care about. This is all I'm saying. You need to live your life in a way where it's terrific if someone else comes along for the ride, but you don't *need* them with you to be okay. They need to feel like they're lucky to be on that ride with you (and you with them), and if you can together make this balance work, everything will be fine.

[HeartIsAching]

Curious what gender you are, HIA.

Why? You wanna whip it out and compare?

[ChrisMac]

Why? You wanna whip it out and compare?

Nah, you just sounded like a girl. Love and commitment and talking through issues is all well and good but sometimes it's just talk. Without behavior that drives each other a little crazy you will fall apart. Guaranteed.

[HeartIsAching]

You sound very young.

[smackie9]

Ya the advice given is from a noticeably older wiser person lol. Don't worry Chris, 20 years from now you will finally get it.

[ChrisMac]

You sound very young.

This from the guy who just asked me to whip it out.

Come on, tell me specifically where I'm off. There's nothing radical or disrepectful to anyone in what I wrote, no clue why you're taking it that way.

Don't worry Chris, 20 years from now you will finally get it.

So given that these are allegedly forums where people discuss ideas and suggest alternative approaches, rather than calling me "young" and telling me I'll "get it someday", without explaining what's to get, show me the mature approach and tell me where I'm off. Clearly my advice is rubbing at least two of you the wrong way for some reason, and it'd just be pleasant to know having gone through a really bad breakup recently where exactly you think I'm off, as many others I've spoken to have said I'm dead on and wish they'd known this themselves before their relationship ended.

If you can't give constructive feedback you're just baiting someone while wasting of all our times.

[HeartIsAching]

This from the guy who just asked me to whip it out.

Come on, tell me specifically where I'm off. There's nothing radical or disrepectful to anyone in what I wrote, no clue why you're taking it that way.



So given that these are allegedly forums where people discuss ideas and suggest alternative approaches, rather than calling me "young" and telling me I'll "get it someday", without explaining what's to get, show me the mature approach and tell me where I'm off. Clearly my advice is rubbing at least two of you the wrong way for some reason, and it'd just be pleasant to know having gone through a really bad breakup recently where exactly you think I'm off, as many others I've spoken to have said I'm dead on and wish they'd known this themselves before their relationship ended.

If you can't give constructive feedback you're just baiting someone while wasting of all our times.

No, I asked if YOU wanted to whip it out.

[searock]

Why don't you just answer him in telling him which points in his second post you don't agree with?

[ChrisMac]

No, I asked if YOU wanted to whip it out.

Sigh. Nope. Just looking for someone who can disagree with the body of what I wrote via well-thought-out points backed up by experience. As I apparently won't find that here I'll move on.

[oldskool83]

#1. Newer move to a country and change your job under #1

#2. Reread #1

#3. Find sum1 closer in your country and stick to a 50 mile radius unless you live really out in the sticks.

[ChrisMac]

#1. Newer move to a country and change your job under #1

#2. Reread #1

#3. Find sum1 closer in your country and stick to a 50 mile radius unless you live really out in the sticks.

That's very thoughtful, oldskool, but I attended a great grad school outside the US last year because I love international business, ended up getting a terrific internship last summer abroad (which is where I met her), and then was offered a full-time job there this year with a salary that's more than double anything else I've been offered back home or anywhere else. So in short, I would have moved like this with or without her.

Now I'm almost more curious why nobody here can give me a straight answer than I am in the topic itself.

[pisces25]

Has it ever occured to you that she just isn't the girl for you? Relationships need to happen organically and grow organically, with both parties putting in the effort. You are trying to justify in your mind what has happened but honestly, it is probably just a case of it not working out, just BECAUSE. Sometimes there aren't reasons why. It's gonna happen many, many times in your life. Stop over-analysing and move on.

And stop blaming 'not being yourself' for the reasons she lost interest when you moved to the new place. If she was committed to you she would have supported youthrough this difficult time. She ended it. Nothing to do with you. Move on. You are young. And for the record and the millionth time on this website, not all girls want the kind of guy you describe. Young girls yes but I bet ya in years to come this very girl will be looking for a kind, romantic, sweet guy.

[ChrisMac]

Has it ever occured to you that she just isn't the girl for you? Relationships need to happen organically and grow organically, with both parties putting in the effort. You are trying to justify in your mind what has happened but honestly, it is probably just a case of it not working out, just BECAUSE. Sometimes there aren't reasons why. It's gonna happen many, many times in your life. Stop over-analysing and move on.

And stop blaming 'not being yourself' for the reasons she lost interest when you moved to the new place. If she was committed to you she would have supported youthrough this difficult time. She ended it. Nothing to do with you. Move on. You are young. And for the record and the millionth time on this website, not all girls want the kind of guy you describe. Young girls yes but I bet ya in years to come this very girl will be looking for a kind, romantic, sweet guy.

I'm not saying you're wrong, lady, but I'm literally an analyst and I can't help but analyze. I try to see patterns so I can learn from them and not make the same mistake twice. And if I can't figure out the mistakes I made, then I don't change and the same thing can just happen again. Isn't it human to want to keep trying to become better? Sure, I know now that she isn't the girl for me. Hell, to be honest I think I probably knew then. We never fully, completely "clicked" because she was never able to open up.

But come on, it's never "just because". There are people who can just dust themselves off a day after a breakup and say "oh well" and walk away from the wreckage like it never happened, but these same people are doomed to make the same mistakes over... and over... and over.

My roommate years ago was amazing at that. Good looking guy, Spanishish, he went on literally 2-3 first dates a week, and slept with many of them on the first date, and they were always gone by Date 3. He had no money, no life, no interests outside of Japanese Animation, and a "date" to him was never anything more than "come back to my room". Yet he wanted a girlfriend, and every loss hurt. I'd say to him "Man. You gotta do something different. Try new things. Take them other places. Go back to school and get a better job if you can't afford it." And he'd get angry and say I should stop trying to change him, and he'll meet a girl who likes him for who he is, dammit. This was four years ago and he's still going on 2-3 dates a week.

Anyway, I realize this is an extreme case, but I stand by people needing to learn. And I also stand by what I say above. I think a guy can definitely be kind, romantic, sweet, and charm a girl... but he needs to do it while still having other priorities and interests. My only point if you read what I wrote is that a guy can't make a girl his everything and expect her to not feel suffocated after awhile. Did I suffocate this one? F#%& no, she was just bats#%& crazy and good riddance. But don't ask me to not analyze what happened.