Making female friends. I wanna be in the friend zone.

[searock]

If they are in happy relationships, why are they emotionally sharing with you? Men don't (again, I'm generalizing here) feel the need to vent to multiple people. Their MO is to find a close, trusted confidant (a woman partner they can trust their vulnerability with) for this kind of thing. Even venting to their male buddies is different; there is a 'pecking order' there that usually prevents too much show of weakness.

I agree with basically everything quoted above. Some men are ok with having a female confidant and close friend whom they aren't attracted to. For example, men who are just dating around and don't want a serious relationship at the moment, but still feel the need for emotional closeness and sharing: clearly they can't get it from their male friends (because of the way males are brought up in most societies), so they "choose" to have a female best friend instead, one they aren't attracted to (since, if they were, it might turn into a serious relationship, which they don't currently want).

It happened to me at least twice in the past: one of these 2 times I ended up falling in love with the guy, who unfortunately didn't like me back at all (we broke contact). The other time was with one of the two close male friends I referred to in previous posts (and no, I didn't help him to find "preys"). Now, this guy is in a serious relationship. We talk less, both because he confides mostly to his girlfriend now (as you said, it's what most guys tend to do) and because we live distant from each other and see each other rarely. When we do talk though, it's as if nothing had changed. Deep conversations, involving emotions as well. He's a long time friend of mine, we met in our early teens and there was never the hint of sexual tension between us (on either side).

What culture are you that you think that might be the reason for the difference? I can't think of any caucasian cultures where this isn't the rule and asian cultures are even more reserved. In fact, that is the reason some men take mistresses (where the wife can't/won't provide this kind of emotional haven).

I was just trying to find a possible explanation to the contraposition of "theories" between other posters and myself. Maybe in the USA it's much more common for men to avoid contacts with women they aren't attracted to, as the video you posted seems to prove. By the way: in the video, all the women interviewed admitted that their guy "friend" had feelings for them. It's definitely not my case - I know that they don't (at least the two I talked about).

In my country (which is in western Europe), it is much more common for men and women to be friends even though they aren't attracted to one another. Admittedly, even here many guys confess that they wouldn't become friends with a woman they aren't attracted to, simply because they wouldn't feel the instinct to approach her in the beginning. If the woman approaches the man first, though, and he finds her to be pleasant to be around, albeit unattractive, a friendship can develop even in those cases.

How old are you, Searock? It could be you just haven't seen enough of this kind of thing to realize what is really happening. BTW, I'm not being proscriptive: these guys feelings are theirs to deal with. Just making sure you aren't blinding yourself to what is likely the real dynamic of your relationship with these 'friends'. IMO there is nothing wrong with having opposite sex friends provided everyone understands the 'rules' of engagement, so to speak.

I see your point. I'm 22. I'm pretty sure that neither of those guy friends of mine are attracted to me. I've had guy friends attracted to me, and I've known all along. I've even had to break contact entirely with one of them, because he had fallen for me and it was too painful for him to keep in touch. I understand those feelings, I've been on the "falling" side as well. I know the tastes of the two guy friends I discussed, I know how they act when they're around a girl they are attracted to - based on these two things, I'm 99.9% sure I'm not one of them.

I am, of course, open to a change of perspective, if something ever were to strike me as even just remotely odd in our friendship (for example, them staying up until late to email me, initiating conversations with me every single day, coming to me before anyone else for emotional support, glancing at me when I'm not looking, etc). As long as nothing of the sort happens, I'm going to be pretty confident that what we have is pure and simple friendship.

[pisces25]

I am 30 and yet to have a close male friend in my life who wasn't attracted to me or I wasn't attracted to them. It seems one person always likes the other that little bit more. Searock perhaps these two friends say they aren't attracted to you, as they are in relationships and you are in one, but the situation could be different if you were all single. And who REALLY knows what they think? After all your current BF was your 'friend' at one point too. It is one of the great mysteries female/male 'friendships' and based on my experience I think a pure, genuine friendship of that kind is not possible although I respect other's opinions and experiences that it is.

[IndiReloaded]

LOL, well the question is why 'pure and simple' friendship is even the desired standard. I have male friends who I know there's mutual admiration and even attraction. In addition to just enjoying each others company, they seem to enjoy my female wit and I enjoy their manliness. But like Mish says, I am in no danger of having my bones jumped on a whim. One thing that never gets discussed in that video is: what's wrong with being friends with someone you are attracted to?

Anyway, I wonder why the OP wants to be in the friend zone. He even says he enjoys female companionship. Perhaps its a new strategy on his part: get to know as many women as he can and then make his choice for sexual partner based on what pings. Might work, even.

[haxan]

If they are in happy relationships, why are they emotionally sharing with you?

IMO there is nothing wrong with having opposite sex friends provided everyone understands the 'rules' of engagement, so to speak

Statement 1 is complete truth, and this is often what is going on. Not always complaints, but the "friends" (male and/or female) or often confiding about problems or situations in their current relationship, intimate details, that to be honest, if it weren't someone they were 'drawn to' they'd never share.

#2 is a good point as well. There's nothing wrong with a fun, casual 'friendly acquaintance' were you both realize that if you were single you'd probably end up in a sweat soaked tangle of arms and legs at some point. It keeps life interesting and light, and like Indi stated, as long as both parties are in tune to the rules of engagement so to speak, there's no problem.

Situation 1, someone has a home life they're not content with. Situation 2, everyone is content. There just has to be plenty of space, even in situation 2. It can only take an hour for someone to go home and find out there s/o had an affair and who are they going to want to find comfort in? Ya, they're friendly acquaintance, who just happens to be a hottie. Now the whole situation is upside down.

Have to tread lightly, and imo, if you have a need for a friend of the opposite sex, you probably just have a need for the opposite sex. If you're involved with someone else, it probably isn't everything you're trying to convince yourself that it is.

Like Indi said, can always play the card to try and hookup, been done a million times and if you're relentless (and hot), I'm sure someone will break lol

[haxan]

To suggest that every friendship between a man and a woman is only moments away from a sexual encounter is pure nonsense.

I certainly wasn't saying that. I'm saying that when a man and a woman, who generally find each other attractive, start to develop a true friendship, there usually is intent with one or both of them (maybe not from day 1). A true friendship is someone you can confide in, share intimate feelings and thoughts with. When it comes to the opposite sex, that you're attracted to, it can be dangerous water to tread.

Better just left to a friendly, flirty acquaintance.

[searock]

Searock perhaps these two friends say they aren't attracted to you, as they are in relationships and you are in one, but the situation could be different if you were all single. And who REALLY knows what they think? After all your current BF was your 'friend' at one point too. It is one of the great mysteries female/male 'friendships' and based on my experience I think a pure, genuine friendship of that kind is not possible although I respect other's opinions and experiences that it is.

They've always said that they weren't attracted to me, even when we were single. They said it to their friends (who don't know me) as well. They also talk to me about another female friend of theirs (not the same person in both cases) and they tell me that they aren't attracted to them (I don't know the other girl, and they do tell me about girls other than their girlfriend whom they are attracted to, so there is no reason for them to lie). I don't know why or how it happens, it just does, in my situation.

There is always the possibility that one day, one of us starts being attracted to the other. After all, as you said, it's exactly what happened with my boyfriend. I was the one to fall for him first: it was only after I confessed my feelings to him that he somehow "woke up" and started seeing me as an actual girl, rather than "just a friend", and he realized that he liked me back. So yes, there is that "risk". We were lucky to be reciprocally attracted to each other, in most cases, it can go terribly wrong (at least in my experience). Which is why I avoid making (close) friends with guys I'm attracted to.

Indi, I don't think there's anything wrong with being attracted to a guy friend - as long as it's not a really close friendship. If it develops into one, one of the two persons involved (or both persons) can fall in love with the other, which can lead to excruciating pain when one or both parties are in a relationship, or simply when one of the two doesn't like the other that way. It's just my personal choice, based on personal experience. I believe it has to do with the fact that I'm relatively still quite young, I hope once I'll be more mature and experienced I'll be able to keep feelings and attraction well separated at all times.

Statement 1 is complete truth, and this is often what is going on. Not always complaints, but the "friends" (male and/or female) or often confiding about problems or situations in their current relationship, intimate details, that to be honest, if it weren't someone they were 'drawn to' they'd never share.

Perhaps this is what you gathered from your experiences and those of your friends. It just isn't *always* the case though. For example: one of the two guy friends I discussed is extremely shy. I met him during our first year at university. I had made lots of friends already, he had made none (he commutes from another town). One day I sat next to him (casually), and during the lesson initiated small talk (as I would've done with any other person). So I was his first "friend" in that new environment, and we've developed a close friendship since. I've seen him meeting girls whom he finds attractive for the first time - believe me, I'm really not one of them. Well actually, you don't need to believe me, I know how it is ;-).

I'm saying that when a man and a woman, who generally find each other attractive, start to develop a true friendship, there usually is intent with one or both of them (maybe not from day 1). A true friendship is someone you can confide in, share intimate feelings and thoughts with. When it comes to the opposite sex, that you're attracted to, it can be dangerous water to tread.

When a man and a woman *who find each other attractive* start to develop a friendship, it can turn (and it most often does) into romantic feelings from at least one of the two persons involved. If they don't find each other attractive at first, they can still "change their minds" at some point and realize that they are attracted to the other person after all (happened to me). There are, on the other hand, cases of people who never do change their minds, and are simply friends (close friends) with one another. I believe the lack of attraction is the only way that men and women can be true friends, without it being wrong for eventual relationships, or in any case the source of painful heartbreak. Only in extremely rare, and lucky, occasions, a close friendship with someone you are attracted to can turn into a wonderful romantic relationship with them. As you said, they're dangerous waters, one needs to be willing to take the risk if they choose to make friends with someone they're attracted to. JMO :-)!

[THX]

I think through the debate between opposing positions you are all coming towards an agreement. Started off a little apples vs. oranges at first. First of all to say if the pant's came off one of the two (at least) would be down is casting an awfully wide net. Forget friends, a lot of guys would hit it with a b**** they hate. If this were the criteria having lesbian friends wouldn't be going far enough. You would have to make sure they were butch and pulling it off well. I think a distinction should be made between being emotionally invested in a friend vs. If circumstances were right I'd hit it. World of difference IMO.

I believe Searock is reporting her reality accurately. When Vashti first suggested lesbian friends and then was backed up there was a reason for it. It's because 50% of the equation is taken care of. She is not going to be into you. For it to be successfully "just" friends with a lesbian who wasn't beaten with an ugly stick assumes a level of self control. How you will frame the relationship. Of course if the person rocks your world with their appearance-personality combo that frame might be wrested away from you in a hurry.

I think this whole argument comes down to how you define , "Just friends." If it is to mean that no thoughts ever pierce your mind outside the platonic safe zone it is surely an anomaly. However if "Just friends" means, "we are both okay with never being romantically involved with each other and we connect on a level that brings value to each others life that is a less rare possability.

I think steering clear of problems comes down to effectively managing those relationships. Searock spoke of the friend that liked her but she didn't like him. She cut bait. She also spoke of the guy she liked but he didn't like her. Once again she cut bait. It comes down to realising whether the relationship is contributing to your happiness or taking away from it.

I also think that ones belief on this matter can be a self fulfilling prophecy. If your mind doesn't allow room for an exception your not going to waste your time finding it.

The reason I want female friends is because I enjoy conversation with them more. I'm interested in things outside of cars,guns, sports and chicks. I'm generalizing here, but you get the point.

[Mish]

How does a man who has failed to make female friends correct his course?

The reason I want female friends is because I enjoy conversation with them more. I'm interested in things outside of cars,guns, sports and chicks. I'm generalizing here, but you get the point.

THX, how have you tried and failed to find female friends? What have you done so far? It might make it easier to give a more specific advice.

[smackie9]

Have to tread lightly, and imo, if you have a need for a friend of the opposite sex, you probably just have a need for the opposite sex. If you're involved with someone else, it probably isn't everything you're trying to convince yourself that it is.

No not for everyone. I have had guy friends all my life when I was single or in a relationship. Never had a relationship with any of my guy friends....always remained friends. I don't make friends with guys I want to date....I date them instead.

[THX]

I'm currently attending group functions and meeting new people and repeat acquaintances. I socialize. It's a good time, and then it's over.

I think part of my problem is I don't have a natural intuition as to where a relationship is at. I have no problem to progress too soon. Like a guy telling a girl he loves her on the first date. The problem is not what he did as much as when he did it. There was a whole lot of stuff that was supposed to happen first. It was out of sequenced thus it is abrupt. Like shifting a car from 1st to 5th. I only know, "I'm meeting you" and "Let's hang out". Because I fear being seen as a social retard I keep it in 1st gear because I don't know where 2nd, 3rd and 4th are.

[haxan]

Guys, it's 3 pages to try and rationalize it and come up with rare exceptions. Men and women aren't mean to be close friends, it's nature, they're meant to be lovers, make babies and have families. To keep telling yourself 'not you' is just living in denial, period, the end.

[searock]

Guys, it's 3 pages to try and rationalize it and come up with rare exceptions. Men and women aren't mean to be close friends, it's nature, they're meant to be lovers, make babies and have families. To keep telling yourself 'not you' is just living in denial, period, the end.

Seems like somebody else is in denial here :-).

[IndiReloaded]

Seems like somebody else is in denial here :-).

And everyone else in that video. At least the women. The guys seemed to live in the Newtonian World. Interesting how the women responded when their beliefs were put to the reality test tho.

I'm with Haxan, but acknowledge we are all coloured by our experiences. Thx may be right, there is his self-fulfilling prophecy point. Perhaps Searock you don't attract, deliberately, male friends of the sort that would be attracted to you. Perhaps that is different from most women, who like the attention but won't admit it (that video). Time will tell, Searock. :-)

[Mish]

Guys, it's 3 pages to try and rationalize it and come up with rare exceptions. Men and women aren't mean to be close friends, it's nature, they're meant to be lovers, make babies and have families. To keep telling yourself 'not you' is just living in denial, period, the end.

Are you paying attention to OP's posts? He already said he's not looking for close, intimate women friends, he is looking for women to socialize with. Which is both possible and realistic.

P.S. men and women are meant to only make babies and have families? Are you serious?

[haxan]

Are you paying attention to OP's posts? He already said he's not looking for close, intimate women friends, he is looking for women to socialize with. Which is both possible and realistic.

P.S. men and women are meant to only make babies and have families? Are you serious?

I've never had a close female friend

He's never had a close female friend, so it's simple to figure out that's what he's looking for by his thread. He's not looking for a casual friendship with a woman (which we've already agreed is possible). We're just trying to enlighten him that he's looking for something that isn't a possibility because one way or another an interest to hang out on one or both sides is going to end up being romantic.

Women/men, don't just go out to dinner, have cookout-movie nights and talk about the intimate and personal details of their lives as 'friends' without someone (or both) wanting it all. It's the ultimate contradiction.

I'm serious. In your opinion, outside of homosexuality, what are men and women here for? To join bowling leagues and drink beer together?