Making female friends. I wanna be in the friend zone.

[searock]

Geeez, the guy friend I'm close friends with since we were 14 years old invites me out for drinks sometimes and I'm happy to go! And we both *know* that it's pure FRIENDship! Get over it Haxan, there are worse problems in the world :-)!

The do's and dont's are for people who don't have close friends of the opposite sex already! You need lots of time to establish the precise nature of the relationship.

[IndiReloaded]

Searock, I do think there is a difference b/t a strange male who becomes a close friend, as adults, and a friend you've grown up with. I too have a very old friend who pings every one of Smackie's 'don't list'. Of course, for the sake of this argument, I have to concede if we weren't both committed to others it would probably be very easy for us to become a couple. But we just don't go there. Tho there are some here who remember I had a boundary problem with him a few years ago until I got sorted out.

I just don't think its possible to *not* be attracted to someone of the opposite sex that you truly admire. Adding intimacy to the mix (emotional sharing, trust) and finding them physically attractive... well, that makes it damn near impossible. That's NOT the same as acting on it tho, I said this already.

It really depends on whether opposite-sex friends can enjoy this dynamic. Like in Europe where a lot more flirting happens that isn't meant to be taken seriously. Its true that we are more staid about that kind of thing in America.

I mean, we could just ask in the Ask A Male forum: How many guys are *just friends* with a woman they call friend and are close enough to share emotional intimacies. I bet its small to none...

EDIT - there's a post now. Go vote.

[THX]

So this commentary is begging to make me think I have no close friends regardless of gender. I'm really not one to disclose a lot of personal stuff. I prefer to deal with my problems on my own for the most part. On occasions when I need to get something off my chest that usually results in a call to my parents. Or I post questions on this site. My best friend of 6 years I have had one occasion where I needed his support after a break up. Otherwise my conversations are just of the What's up and what is your opinion on this variety.

So rather than saying I want to have a close female friend I will specify what I would like and find out what is realistic and what is not.

What I would like from a female friend:

* Someone I can call up and shoot the shit with. Not necessarily anything deep and pressing.
* Someone I can call up to go out and do something with (with other people there is fine) and we will want to catch up and interchange fun conversation.
* Someone who can openly and honestly give me a female perspective with out feeling self edited.
* Someone who will show up to an event where I also have male friends and add a female dynamic to the conversation and other goings on.

[haxan]

Geeez, the guy friend I'm close friends with since we were 14 years old invites me out for drinks sometimes and I'm happy to go! And we both *know* that it's pure FRIENDship! Get over it Haxan, there are worse problems in the world :-)!

Pleeez, assuming you're a fairly attractive girl, give me 5 minutes of guy talk with him and I will come back and tell you some of the things he'd love to do to you, if you weren't 'friends' and the opportunity was there.

It'd be great if things worked the way you and smackie describe, but in reality we're just keeping up appearances (i.e. suppressing thoughts and desires, because it's the right thing to do). No harm in that, but it can be more work than it's worth, and as Indi stated, sometimes the line can get blurry. Better to just flirt and have fun w/out getting too involved and lose your footing on that slippery slope.

Here's a funny vid of you and I discussing an issue, searock (maybe we'd be a bit nicer though) lol

[haxan]

So rather than saying I want to have a close female friend I will specify what I would like and find out what is realistic and what is not.

What I would like from a female friend:

* Someone I can call up and shoot the shit with. Not necessarily anything deep and pressing.
Has to be some interest on behalf of one or both of you to get to this stage

* Someone I can call up to go out and do something with (with other people there is fine) and we will want to catch up and interchange fun conversation.
Has to be some interest on behalf of one or both of you to get to this stage

* Someone who can openly and honestly give me a female perspective with out feeling self edited.
Can find this in better quality and quantity on the internet. A friendly acquaintance is just going to tell you what you want to hear

* Someone who will show up to an event where I also have male friends and add a female dynamic to the conversation and other goings on.
Has to be some interest on behalf of one or both of you to get to this stage. If not, one of your good looking friends will hook up with her and she won't have time for you to even be an acquaintance. Why waste valuable free time listening to your crap when she can be with him having fun

It's just the reality of it. Good luck though, maybe you'll stumble across something in the process.

[haxan]

I just don't think its possible to *not* be attracted to someone of the opposite sex that you truly admire. Adding intimacy to the mix (emotional sharing, trust) and finding them physically attractive... well, that makes it damn near impossible

This is about as succinct as it can get. Great job, Indi !

[thiudiskr]

Pleeez, assuming you're a fairly attractive girl, give me 5 minutes of guy talk with him and I will come back and tell you some of the things he'd love to do to you, if you weren't 'friends' and the opportunity was there.

It'd be great if things worked the way you and smackie describe, but in reality we're just keeping up appearances (i.e. suppressing thoughts and desires, because it's the right thing to do). No harm in that, but it can be more work than it's worth, and as Indi stated, sometimes the line can get blurry. Better to just flirt and have fun w/out getting too involved and lose your footing on that slippery slope.

Here's a funny vid of you and I discussing an issue, searock (maybe we'd be a bit nicer though) lol

I don't think friendship works that way. If you want to "do things" to your friend (in other words, your "friendship" doesn't meet your expectations or desires), maybe you need to reconsider the validity and mutuality of your friendship. Not everybody is an opportunistic sex fiend. :-)

[haxan]

Not everybody is an opportunistic sex fiend. :-)

It's not about that at all, it's about human nature. Attraction, magnetism, men and women, the birds and the bees for the younger members. Are you following along?

Anyway, what I quoted from Indi summed it up perfectly. If you want to find fault in or argue that statement, this would be a 100 page thread.

[THX]

okay I'm going to be completely honest. The people that say guys and girls can't be friends are starting to win my perception. Especially because Vashti has given me very good advice in the past so here is my plan.

A) Try to find guy friends who are interested in non predominantly male subjects.

B) Try to find lesbian friends. Although I'm not quite sure how to go about this yet.

C) A bit of deception here, but Inreloaded's video showed girls who were willing to be friends with guys who they knew secret;y liked them. Since I used to be that type of guy the behavior patterns shouldn't be hard to replicate. I can have female friends who think I secretly like them but am just being a pussy about saying so. Since they assume this they get whatever those girls get out of such a relationship and I get a female friend. everybodies happy.

[searock]

Maybe it's because I live in Europe and not the USA, perhaps it works differently here. I just know that many guys have female friends here and viceversa, and true friendships are those in which there is no physical attraction - or those in which physical attraction entered the equation only once the friendship was already close. I really don't care if your mentality prevents you from accepting this, I know how it is. I assure you if you could talk to the 2 close guy friends of mine man to man, they'd tell you "no way, she's ugly, I love her like a sister but she's ugly!" I assure you!

I'm average looking, some guys are attracted and some aren't. Or are you saying that all guys are attracted to all women?!?!? Or that guys won't ever talk to women they aren't attracted to?!?!?!? In this case you are preventing yourself from getting to know great persons just because you aren't attracted to them... whatever rocks your boat ;-)!

Indi, I know what you mean about it being quite difficult for there to be a really strong admiration and closeness and still no physical attraction. It's exactly what happened with my boyfriend and I: we started off as friends, neither of us was attracted to the other, but we hit it off so well as friends that we became something we could call "soul mates" in just about 6 months of intense conversations and humorous exchanges. We understood each other perfectly, as it had never happened before with anyone else. I started having feelings for him 6 months into the friendship - since we were both taken I waited for another 6 months to see if it would go away (I couldn't completely break contact with him because we went to the same classes at uni and were in the same group of friends), then I decided to confess. He said that he had never even thought of me as a girl, but my confession brought him to do so and he realized that he did find me attractive! Before haxan goes all "yeah, sure" - he didn't want to get together, *not even just for sex*, until 2 years later. Kind of strange for someone who had become friends with me with that intent all along, huh?!

But other times, it can happen. My other two close guy friends and I have close conversations and have lunch together sometimes, go for a drink sometimes, etc., and neither of them is attracted to me (nor I to them). Surely it can change in the future (who knows), I'm just saying the way it is right now. It's rare, but worth it :-)!

Look, Haxan, I know it's tough to understand for a guy who has always thought about it that way, but there are guys who will see girls *just* as girls (therefore, beddable or not, girlfriend material or not, etc), and guys who will see them as *persons* too, as they would see another guy. Luckily for me, in my country there's a fair share of both types! Same thing goes for women.

I agree with thiudiskr's last post.

It's all about mindsets. If you don't believe it can happen, you put yourself in a disposition for which it will never happen to you.

[searock]

okay I'm going to be completely honest. The people that say guys and girls can't be friends are starting to win my perception. Especially because Vashti has given me very good advice in the past so here is my plan.

A) Try to find guy friends who are interested in non predominantly male subjects.

B) Try to find lesbian friends. Although I'm not quite sure how to go about this yet.

C) A bit of deception here, but Inreloaded's video showed girls who were willing to be friends with guys who they knew secret;y liked them. Since I used to be that type of guy the behavior patterns shouldn't be hard to replicate. I can have female friends who think I secretly like them but am just being a pussy about saying so. Since they assume this they get whatever those girls get out of such a relationship and I get a female friend. everybodies happy.

Just know you're going to miss out on some wonderful friendships. If you live in the USA though, you probably made the right choice. Seems to be all or nothing over there. It makes me sad, but the world is beautiful because it's different!

[THX]

Just know you're going to miss out on some wonderful friendships. If you live in the USA though, you probably made the right choice. Seems to be all or nothing over there. It makes me sad, but the world is beautiful because it's different!

Don'y worry. I have A LOT of things from this thread that I didn't know before. I'm pretty sure I'll come into situations and say , "Oh this is what sos and so from loveforum was talking about. i'm much closer to female friendships now than I was before I posted, =)

[Mish]

What I would like from a female friend:

* Someone I can call up and shoot the shit with. Not necessarily anything deep and pressing.
* Someone I can call up to go out and do something with (with other people there is fine) and we will want to catch up and interchange fun conversation.
* Someone who can openly and honestly give me a female perspective with out feeling self edited.
* Someone who will show up to an event where I also have male friends and add a female dynamic to the conversation and other goings on.

Don't listen to extremely narrow minded opinions from Haxan, all of the above are normal interactions between men and women that happen between most people on daily basis. It's just a matter of finding women to hang out with and you can find women to do all of the above everywhere. Consider taking up some classes, dancing, singing, cycling, rock climbing or even yoga. Or find some meetup groups ([url]http://www.meetup.com/[/url]) in your area that you can hang out with, eventually you'll find some good new friends. Don't over think your conversations, just do whatever feels natural.

[THX]

Yep. Already got with the meetup.com a bit over a year ago. It's how I'm meeting new people for the most part. One of the best decisions I ever made. =)

[smackie9]

Just to add men and women perceive "relationships" differently. Women can admire a guy without any sexual attraction (friends zone), for guys it's all or nothing. The ladder theory explains it. It's guys that can't have close friendship with women without wondering if they can sleep with them or not.