So. it's over right?

[Hotaru]

You may suggest whatever you like. I agree with you that there is no guarantee he'll stay, but I also think that she has no other choice if she really wants to continue this.

She could use her words instead of her vagina, for starters. If she can't approach the guy and explain herself, he's not worth it. At the ridiculous pace he's moving, if he rejects an honest explanation and genuine affection, he's likely damaged goods which would account for his rush.


Coming from the perspective of a woman, sexless sleepovers are sweet and romantic. It's a nice time to cuddle, kiss, and hold one another. But if he slept over expecting her to put out, whose to blame here? It's just a difference of intentions and it's not up to her to fix it by spreading her legs if she doesn't want to. It is never, under any circumstances, good to tell a woman to flop on her back to keep a man if she doesn't want to have sex. Think about it - if she has to make the conscious decision to sleep with him just to have a shot at being around him, how much does that say for her desire of him in the first place? And what about how it would make her feel later if it backfires?

Fact is, the guy is moving too fast by many peoples' standards. She needs to show a reasonable amount of interest but if she doesn't even want to show that much, I seriously question her level of interest to begin with and no amount of screwing is going to change that.


As an addendum, it kind of bothers me that she toyed with him. If someone asks you how much you like them, don't play kiddy games. He's almost 30, I imagine he's past that by now.

[BackUpOrGetStng]

Sexless sleepovers are ****ing lame and childish. Not even up for debate.

I don't think anyone is to blame no matter what their expectations. It's just cause and effect. She doesn't show interest, he loses interest. At this point it would take something on the order of magnitude of sex for her to show that she isn't just playing games. She's already bullshitted around with her words, so they really mean nothing now. I agree she shouldn't have sex with him unless she wants to. I think if she doesn't want to right now, then she should just leave him alone.

[Cerby]

Coming from the perspective of a woman, sexless sleepovers are sweet and romantic.

Coming from a guy, sexless sleepovers are mixed signals are confusion. They may be romantic after you've opened that door, but if you haven't had sex yet, you shouldn't have a sleepover. This eliminates the confusion associated with sleeping on someone's couch when you wish you were in their bed.

If she doesn't put out, fine, but she needs to make it VERY clear she is romantically interested.

[RipVanWinkleX]

She should only sleep with him when she feels ready, not to make sure that he is around. If he was interested in her, he will wait.

[BackUpOrGetStng]

She should only sleep with him when she feels ready, not to make sure that he is around. If he was interested in her, he will wait.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's been guys on this forum who have been interested and waited years...

He's doing the right thing by dropping her. If he waited in these circumstances, he'd just be a chump.

[bmarquis]

Not that it natters now but I never toyed with him...he came on so strong so early I wasn't sure if he was messing with me or not so I'm not just gonna open my heart up like that. I told him I liked him but I go slow and it takes me a while to trust someone. When he expressed doubt about me being into it still I didn't say oh baby I love you or anything but I brought up the fact that I was late to work and even took a day off just to see him (which we didn't even end up going out!). and as to my level of interest I wouldn't be on here if it was no big deal to me. So if sex is the only way to get him back then oh well....obviously he doesn't love me so why would i do that. The frustrating part is he's not telling me. I even gave him an opportunity to do it over text but he didn't tell me the truth, just strining me along. Anyways I don't think I can save it but this has helped me get over it a little bit so thanks everyone

[sssspanos]

Excuse me, but a relationship starts when you have sex with someone... Before, you just TRY for a relationship. On the other hand if you and the guy were to make sex this would have already happened so far.

To my opinion you must move on. When you will feel you need a man sexually you will know it. Now you try to decide it logically - something that could not lead to a good relationship...

[smackie9]

Communication is totally lacking. When you start a new relationship you have to lay everything on the table in regards to sex, meeting the parents, space,etc..expectations. If you had told him you wanted to wait to get to know him better, and that you do see a potential relationship that would have cleared up all those mixed signals he was getting. With you not sleeping with him without explanation, and not jumping at the opportunity to meet his parents told him you were not serious about him. I don't blame the guy for backing off. When he backed off he was testing you to see if you would make an effort to show your interest...and there you were waiting for HIM to contact you. That just reeks of "fail".

[bmarquis]

Ouch...yeah if it was a test I sure did fail it but I didn't know relationships were about tests. I don't play games like that so I'm pretty bad at them. All I knew was he asked me to be his girlfriend and then ignored me for 2 days. My first thought wasn't "oh he's testing my level of interest".

[Cerby]

How about another way to think about it? Take the analysis out of it completely. Decide what you want and act on it. This can be as simple as it sounds as long as you know what you're looking for.

[Hotaru]

Ouch...yeah if it was a test I sure did fail it but I didn't know relationships were about tests. I don't play games like that so I'm pretty bad at them. All I knew was he asked me to be his girlfriend and then ignored me for 2 days. My first thought wasn't "oh he's testing my level of interest".

I don't like tests either and I definitely prefer the direct route so I understand. But I agree with smackie that after he backed off, he was waiting for you to make the next move. I would have done the same thing just because it sucks to always be the one initiating everything. If someone really wants you, they'll make an effort. If you stop asking to hang out and you stop hanging all over them, one of two things will generally happen : 1) the person will notice and reach out to you 2) they won't lift a finger and you'll know you wasted your time. When you didn't do number 1, he assumed number 2.

Also, relationships don't begin with sex, that's stupid. Sex isn't some magical thing that binds two people together anymore than marriage is. One of my closest friends has been with a woman for about 8 years now and he loves her wholly and completely. Sexually, they're about as inactive as it gets. He wishes they had more sex but when I asked him about their situation - if he'd rather leave - he said no, that sex isn't all there is to a relationship. He loves her, she's affectionate with him in other ways, they're the best of friends, they take care of one another, they share a lot in common. Passing up on all of that to get his rocks off and hope for the same connection elsewhere isn't an option for him. Does the removal of sex thereby mean they are no longer in a relationship and are "trying" for one? What even defines a relationship? The answer is there is no answer - it's subjective.

I know other women who have tried putting out before entering a relationship and it backfired in their face. There is no correlation between having sex and entering a relationship and there are no rules. It's when people try to create rules, put up hoops, and draw up guidelines that things get ridiculous. They're generalizations and most are usually beyond stupid. Don't go from person to person holding onto meaningless rules, looking for the same "signs", because not everyone is the same and you're going to miss so much doing it.


Having said all that, you could always reach out one more time. Don't just joke or flirt, say something like, "Hey, so and so movie is out, want to see it with me?" Or ask him out to eat or whatever you want to do. Just chatting doesn't show much, some people will do that just for the attention it brings without having any serious intention of seeing the person as more than a friend or a plaything. Actually asking him out shows more. If he doesn't bite, just forget it.

[bmarquis]

Well I texted him today "hey I miss you." He says "aww I miss you too we should do something tomorrow or you can come to a party w/me tmrw night". Which doesn't really sound sincere :/ And what's he doing tonight that's more important??

It's not really what I want to do....how are we gonna talk about anything at a party with his friends there and everyone drinking. I don't feel comfortable around them because when I went to his place the first time we were asleep on the couch and his roommates came in drunk talking about me like I wasn't even there, making real sleazy comments. It was a red flag because if his friends treat girls like that then maybe that's how he viewed girls too...which is why I haven't had sex with him yet. So....I should have texted asking him to dinner but I didn't because I want HIM to want to talk to me one on one because he misses me and hasn't seen me in a week.....not just invite me to hang out at a party when he knows I don't really drink, have to be at work sunday morning, feel out of place with his friends.....

He doesn't really care that much right? I should just let it go......

[VincenzoG91]

Well I texted him today "hey I miss you." He says "aww I miss you too we should do something tomorrow or you can come to a party w/me tmrw night". Which doesn't really sound sincere :/ And what's he doing tonight that's more important??

It's not really what I want to do....how are we gonna talk about anything at a party with his friends there and everyone drinking. I don't feel comfortable around them because when I went to his place the first time we were asleep on the couch and his roommates came in drunk talking about me like I wasn't even there, making real sleazy comments. It was a red flag because if his friends treat girls like that then maybe that's how he viewed girls too...which is why I haven't had sex with him yet. So....I should have texted asking him to dinner but I didn't because I want HIM to want to talk to me one on one because he misses me and hasn't seen me in a week.....not just invite me to hang out at a party when he knows I don't really drink, have to be at work sunday morning, feel out of place with his friends.....

He doesn't really care that much right? I should just let it go......

Use assertive communication, which means clearly telling him what you really want while treating him with respect. So, instead of blowing him off or going to the party with him while resenting the situation, tell him that you want to spend time alone with him. He probably suggested the party because he is still doubting your interest level and wants a situation where it would be easy to bail on you. Hearing that you want to spend time alone with him might get his hopes up pretty high, but I bet he would rather spend some quality time with you then just go to a typical party.

The info about the roommates is interesting. It doesn't mean that he is just like them, but it's very likely that they were the ones who tried to change his mind about you.

[Hotaru]

Well I texted him today "hey I miss you." He says "aww I miss you too we should do something tomorrow or you can come to a party w/me tmrw night". Which doesn't really sound sincere :/ And what's he doing tonight that's more important??

You really expect him to jump that fast? Maybe he doesn't want to do anything tonight, maybe he's busy. The man probably has a life...

It's not really what I want to do....how are we gonna talk about anything at a party with his friends there and everyone drinking.

Not everything is about you, if you ever want to be in a relationship you need to learn you aren't the center of the universe. You haven't been around, you blew him off, you took the least active role in the romance, and while you were gone, he got an invite to a party or decided to throw one. He doesn't have to cancel his plans for a non-girlfriend who can't find it in herself to be direct like an adult should be.

I don't feel comfortable around them because when I went to his place the first time we were asleep on the couch and his roommates came in drunk talking about me like I wasn't even there, making real sleazy comments. It was a red flag because if his friends treat girls like that then maybe that's how he viewed girls too...which is why I haven't had sex with him yet.

Or maybe you should just leave the man alone if you're going to come up with excuse after excuse to stay away. You don't have to agree with everything your friends say and do and the guy was freakin' drunk. As long as this man isn't mistreating you, there shouldn't be an issue unless the friend begins to be a problem. And if anything, the friend might not like you because he knows you're screwing his friend around. To be honest with you, if I were him, I would probably tell my buddy to move on because the girl isn't mature enough and seems high maintenance. The fact that you expect him to drop his plans for the night just because you snapped your fingers says plenty.

The only issue I see with the friend situation is if your guy was awake and didn't say anything. But you said you were "asleep on the couch" so I'm not sure if he was or not. What sort of things was he saying? You really need to learn to be direct and speak up. If that were me, I'd have been like whoa whoa whoa now...wtf is this? Did you just lay there? I mean, what actually happened?

So....I should have texted asking him to dinner but I didn't because I want HIM to want to talk to me one on one because he misses me and hasn't seen me in a week.....not just invite me to hang out at a party when he knows I don't really drink, have to be at work sunday morning, feel out of place with his friends.....

He doesn't really care that much right? I should just let it go......

Yes, let it go, I don't think you're quite mature enough to date someone his age. You don't want him and you're toying with him. He doesn't owe you shit, you've been playing games since day one. He blatantly told you he was crazy for you but you didn't respond for some reason or another. So now that it's your turn to pick up the slack, you again take the passive role because you "want HIM to want to talk to me one on one" which is very prissy. You're the one who hasn't been responding, it's all on you, he's just fine, I'm sure he could find someone else willing to be in an adult relationship. I'm glad he's not making a fool of himself this time; he's basically saying here's where I'll be, you're invited so you either make an effort to be part of my life or that's it, I'm not going to keep trying to be a part of yours while I get nothing in return.

I know this post probably sounds mean but I'm just going to be blunt. I've dated a few guys who behaved the same way you are now. You tell it to them straight and they respond with tests - jump through this hoop, do things my way, etc.. When I was younger, I went with it. But as I've gotten older, I've grown tired of the sissy bullshit and I don't tolerate it. If I kept inviting someone out and they kept finding excuses not to show but never bothered to aggressively pursue something, I'd ditch them. You wouldn't get another invite from me again and I wouldn't text just to talk. I'd likely respond to be polite but I'd otherwise keep my distance. It begins to chip away at your patience and, more importantly, your self-esteem because you are essentially behaving like a lovesick puppy with no brains.


To simplify the above, he came on fast and was direct. The way this works is he kicked the ball into your court - wanna do XYZ? - and you said no. You had the ball. You should have kicked it back - no thank you, I'm not comfortable with that but would you want to go to dinner on Saturday? - you didn't though. What you're asking is that he walk over to your court where the ball is laying at your feet, pick it up, walk back over to his court, and kick it again. No effort on your part. Kick it back - accept the date. Turning him down at this point is too much and if you do it, I'd suggest you leave him to find someone else for several reasons - 1) you've turned him away too many times 2) it signifies that you really don't want him that badly (especially since you seem all too eager to have it end, you keep saying "it's over right?" and "I should move on right?") 3) it also signifies that you aren't mature enough to be in a relationship because you haven't learned what it means to compromise.

[BackUpOrGetStng]

At 28 years old, having "girlfriend" that you haven't even had sex has got be a blow to his self esteem. I'm sure his roommates have given him the third degree about that one.

I think if you continue this with him, resentment is going to continue to build on one side or the other, or both sides.

I think most 28 year olds dating 21 year olds want someone they can easily control. I don't think this guy loves you as he implied.