Did I Assault Her?

[searock]

She definitely has issues, no doubt stemming from all the abuse she's gone through in her life, and she could certainly use professional help. I think you should insist on this - not necessarily anger management classes, I think general therapy would be best for her.

However, you should never, ever use violence (as HIA said, any unwanted touch is violence) on a woman. I would have dumped you immediately, had you done something like that to me. No matter who it was to start the argument. Yes, you did assault her, even if she started it: yours was NOT self-defense, because she is clearly less strong than you and you could have limited yourself to stopping her from hitting you, if you wanted self-defense. Instead you imposed your physical superiority on her, making her feel completely vulnerable and defenseless, helpless. Not a great thing to do to your beloved, especially a rape victim.

[vashti]

Yes, you did assault her, even if she started it: yours was NOT self-defense, because she is clearly less strong than you and you could have limited yourself to stopping her from hitting you, if you wanted self-defense. Instead you imposed your physical superiority on her, making her feel completely vulnerable and defenseless, helpless. Not a great thing to do to your beloved, especially a rape victim.

I think you are missing who the real victim is.

[Boisdevie]

I agree with Vash. I somehow get the impression that on society violence towards a man from a woman (and YES I know it's far far more often the other way around), is somehow regarded as being less serious than violence towards a woman from a man. In Vinces' case she hit him first so that hardly puts her in the category of victim does it? Yes, she had a shitty past but that's no excuse for her being shitty now and especially resorting to violence when she's been on the receiving end first.

[IndiReloaded]

Vince - If you don't like the person you are when you are with her, that's a big sign it's time to go.

In a perfect world people would act perfectly, no matter the provocation. Reality is, there are people who can say and do things that drive us to act out of character. Crazy makers. Now I don't really know how much is you vs. her, but I suspect you are both somewhat enjoying the sick interactions and that is unhealthy.

If you think counselling will help, then by all means go. But it is my long experience that people really don't change on core behaviours like these. Your GF is a broken-winged bird. She needs to learn new responses and habits that can probably really only come with therapy and, a lot of introspection. Your personalities are keeping her from doing what's needful, I'd say.

In your case, I think you've done your work. Now your task is to find someone who brings out the best in you, doesn't stomp all over your own insecurities and generally makes you feel like the awesome guy you are. She's not able to do that, V. You know this.

[VincenzoG91]

We've argued in the past, and I've learned over the years that there is a particular pattern that she will insist upon. She will refuse to communicate with me for two days, give or take a few hours. Until then, it's okay if I apologize via text, but persistent attempts to contact her will only delay our eventual reunion. I've already reached out and apologized.

I'm going to wait for things to calm down for a while, and then I'm going to bring up the counseling idea again. Either couples counseling or counseling just for her. I wish that I was the problem, because then I would just go and get help and work hard at becoming a better person. But I'm not the one with the traumatic history. I don't mind debating ideas with people, but arguments with her sometimes leave me feeling sickened afterwards. It's perfectly reasonable for two people to have different opinions or beliefs, but it isn't reasonable for that disagreement to lead to personal insults or violence.

[Boisdevie]

And if she tells you to F off what then Vince? I wish you well, I enjoy your contributions here and hope you get what YOU need. But I think you deserve better. Being a good guy is all fine and good but when somebody else is taking the piss then it's time to call it quits no?

[searock]

I agree with those who say that this relationship isn't working. She has too many issues to be able to have a healthy relationship right now.

[HeartIsAching]

We've argued in the past, and I've learned over the years that there is a particular pattern that she will insist upon. She will refuse to communicate with me for two days, give or take a few hours. Until then, it's okay if I apologize via text, but persistent attempts to contact her will only delay our eventual reunion. I've already reached out and apologized.

I'm going to wait for things to calm down for a while, and then I'm going to bring up the counseling idea again. Either couples counseling or counseling just for her. I wish that I was the problem, because then I would just go and get help and work hard at becoming a better person. But I'm not the one with the traumatic history. I don't mind debating ideas with people, but arguments with her sometimes leave me feeling sickened afterwards. It's perfectly reasonable for two people to have different opinions or beliefs, but it isn't reasonable for that disagreement to lead to personal insults or violence.

Jesus man, what's it take? You've got the patience of Job.

[VincenzoG91]

If she tells me to F off, then I will be sad for a while and then get on with my life. I love her, and no matter what happens, I will always care about her. But if she doesn't want to be with me anymore, then it's over. I hope that she chooses to stay with me and get whatever therapy she needs, but that will need to be her choice and not mine.

[VincenzoG91]

Jesus man, what's it take? You've got the patience of Job.

Anger management class helped me learn patience. And she was the one who got me to take the anger management class. It seems fair to give her the same chance to become a better person.

[HeartIsAching]

Anger management class helped me learn patience. And she was the one who got me to take the anger management class. It seems fair to give her the same chance to become a better person.

Hasn't she already refused, more than once? What's going to change now, do you think? Serious question.

[Wakeup]

If she refuses to get the therapy she needs, please don't stay with her. She is issued and abusive and she is manipulative enough to make you feel like you're the bad guy. When you asked her to leave she should have left. Any healthy person would have and then went home to re-evaluate the value, or lack thereof of this relationship while you stayed home and did the same.

One doesn't just get over a childhood molestation or a rape. I don't how you'd do it but I think she needs to hear that from you and perhaps someone else you both trust and respect. I'm in total disbelief that her family 'forgave' her abuser. Sick! he should have been charged and prosecuted.

[VincenzoG91]

Hasn't she already refused, more than once? What's going to change now, do you think? Serious question.

I'm generally an advocate of accepting (or rejecting) people as they are, because they will only change when they really want to change. But I am certain that I'm a better person today for having taken that anger management class. And I have seen her make real progress with some of her own weaknesses and issues. She has expressed interest in therapy in the past, just not anger management. So I would like to think that she would be willing to do some therarpy, and maybe a therapist will identify an anger management problem. She won't accept that diagnosis from a regular person, but she would take an expert opinion very seriously.

The primary reason why she never got therapy was because of cash flow concerns. Although I completed the debt management plan and even bought a house two years ago, I'm still worried about money for three reasons. First, she is still relying on me for support until she gets her degree at the end of the year. Second, her car might not hold up that long. Third, the company that I work for is in danger of going under within months. We might get a large bridge loan from a potential investor next week, but we might not. And while I have some savings, it won't be enough if my job search takes several months.

But I have a great credit score these days, and three recent credit card offers on my desk. No matter what it happens, it might be a good idea to apply for at least one or two of those cards now while I can. And if I have a choice between saving some money or helping my girlfriend get better, I'm going to put some therapy appointments on a charge card. I've certainly spent money on worse things over the years.

[VincenzoG91]

If she refuses to get the therapy she needs, please don't stay with her. She is issued and abusive and she is manipulative enough to make you feel like you're the bad guy. When you asked her to leave she should have left. Any healthy person would have and then went home to re-evaluate the value, or lack thereof of this relationship while you stayed home and did the same.

One doesn't just get over a childhood molestation or a rape. I don't how you'd do it but I think she needs to hear that from you and perhaps someone else you both trust and respect. I'm in total disbelief that her family 'forgave' her abuser. Sick! he should have been charged and prosecuted.

I agree, if she refuses the therapy, then it's better to end the relationship now.

I also agree that the stepdad should have faced charges. She decided against that, for the sake of her mother and her brothers. They struggled with poverty before the stepdad came along, and she didn't want her family to suffer. Years later, when she spent months recovering from surgery, both her mother and her stepdad were extremely helpful, and that's when she truly forgave him.

[Wakeup]

If you were my son, I'd be all over trying to convince you to not put yourself in debt for her. There are social services out there that can help her with her therapy. There is a councelor at her college (yes?) that can direct her to where she needs to go to get the financial help and the psychological help that she needs. Before you put her appointments on Your credit card, look into alternative methods that she would be responsible for. She is currently $100,000 in debt which will also become your debt should she recover from her current emotional dysfunction and you two become husband and wife.

There is a lot more to think about then you saving her. Even on an airplane the Air Hostess will tell you to put on your own oxygen mask so you're stable and strong before you help the struggling passenger beside you. You can't help if you're incapacitated in some way be it mentally, emotionally or terribly financially.

I don't think she "truly forgave her stepfather" V. I think she just stopped showing her hate to him. I can see why you feel some obligation to her but don't let her problems become your downfall.