Did I Assault Her?

[Starnique]

^^^ You just need to be a man and take control of the situation. I hope you're not still with her. She seems manipulative. You need to get yourself and especially your kid out that situation.

Me and my Ex went through situations like this and I would sometimes get physical with him but it had nothing to do with manpulation or anything. It was because of all his lies and BS and disrespect. Which is a different story. He would take me take me there sometimes. Like if Im mad and Im trying to leave and a guy take my phone or my keys so I cant go then yes, I might lose it and swing because I dont have time for that. Or holding my wrist, pinning me down is annoying as hell. We used to really get into it because I would flip out. I didnt care. But girls just got to be careful because I know some guys that will hit a girl back. Period. I've seen it and I dont like seeing men fight women...seriously because 9 times out of 10, the man is overpowering her. I also seen some women that are beast though. lol.

[misombra]

i'll tell you... you guys can fight however brutally you want. scream yell and hit. but if there's a child in the house you will be causing serious damage. they emulate your behavior, they think it's ok, and they will do whatever they can to escape the situation. they will blame themselves.

if you guys plan on having kids then you really should consider this.

[dickriculous]

She was abused by her stepfather. That was her first rape.

That alone is enough for me to write a woman off as a lost cause.

Your story is a perfect example to illustrate why.

I solve these problems by not having them in the first place and that means avoiding certain people.

[dickriculous]

if you guys plan on having kids

For the love of God don't even plant that seed of thought in his mind.

This relationship should've died before it started, let alone gotten to where it's at now. If it gets to the point of having kids we're gonna have the best argument against pro-lifers that any formal debate could possibly ask for.

Vincenzo - What the fukk are you doing with your life bro? Why are you poisoning your soul like this? I just can't make any sense of it. Do you not think you can do any better? Do you believe you are resigned to a love life of misery and psychotic drama? What the fukk man? I didn't think I would ever see you fall this far.

[phantogram]

That alone is enough for me to write a woman off as a lost cause.

Your story is a perfect example to illustrate why.

I solve these problems by not having them in the first place and that means avoiding certain people.

Vincenzo, while your girlfriend seems like she definitely has issues she needs to sort out ON HER OWN (and yes, that will require you to step away for a period of time), I find dickriculous' sentiment to be absolutely horrible. Being raped by her stepfather does not make her undeserving of love, and any sentiment otherwise would suggest she's tainted for life because of something that she was powerless to prevent. However, she does need to figure out how to properly reciprocate that love, and she'll need space (and therapy) for that.

[Wakeup]

Vincenzo, while your girlfriend seems like she definitely has issues she needs to sort out ON HER OWN (and yes, that will require you to step away for a period of time), I find dickriculous' sentiment to be absolutely horrible. Being raped by her stepfather does not make her undeserving of love, and any sentiment otherwise would suggest she's tainted for life because of something that she was powerless to prevent. However, she does need to figure out how to properly reciprocate that love, and she'll need space (and therapy) for that.

Thing is. If she's not over the rape if it's still affecting her everyday life, then she IS tainted for life if she doesn't get help to come to terms with her anger and feelings of loss of control.

Excuse me for having replied when you were addressing Vincenzo however; I really want to address your post.

No one is saying that she should go without love but, she should go without dragging others into her emotional stew. So dick's sentiments may not be icing coated but they are valid and certainly not "horrible" It is enabling thinking such as equating someone's preference to be without a actively issued person in their life as being "horrible" that keeps the issued, right where they are.. which is issued.

[phantogram]

Wakeup, I agree with you completely, and yes, she absolutely needs to sort her problems out, and she needs to do that in a way that doesn't drag down the people around her. But that isn't being tainted for life, that's her having very deep and very serious problems, but problems that can ultimately be managed, assuming she makes the effort. I just really resent the idea that people who have been abused, suffer from depression, etc., should be avoided like the plague, and dickriculous' comments came off that way to me.

Obviously, Vincenzo shouldn't stay in a messy situation like this if his girlfriend isn't making an effort to clean it up.

[phantogram]

Also Vincenzo, I don't fully know what you were thinking/feeling when you did the thing where you grabbed her wrists firmly, and I'm not accusing you of being abusive or horribly violent, but you do have to try really hard to keep that in check, as frustrating as your situation might be. I hate to say it, but something like that could have very likely triggered something very dark in her mind stemming from her past abuse. The absolute worst thing would be for her to associate you with that in any way.

[dickriculous]

Wakeup, I agree with you completely, and yes, she absolutely needs to sort her problems out, and she needs to do that in a way that doesn't drag down the people around her. But that isn't being tainted for life, that's her having very deep and very serious problems, but problems that can ultimately be managed, assuming she makes the effort. I just really resent the idea that people who have been abused, suffer from depression, etc., should be avoided like the plague, and dickriculous' comments came off that way to me.

Obviously, Vincenzo shouldn't stay in a messy situation like this if his girlfriend isn't making an effort to clean it up.

If you agree with Wakeup then you shouldn't take exception to anything I said, so what's your stance exactly?

I avoid people who have been abused and suffer from depression because I don't like being in Vincenzo's position. Are you reading his posts? Have you ever been in that position yourself? I've been in a similar position and it's absolute hell. I've seen others in that position before and it was absolute hell for them as well.

Yeah, it sucks for the poor girl but how much do you think I'm obligated to subject myself to because of her? What about what's fair to me? Am I supposed to risk being dragged into an emotional abyss right alongside her? Am I supposed to put myself in a situation where dysfunctional relationships are the norm? Accept a drastically increased likelihood of being cheated on? Put myself in situations where if I decide to break things off with her I could end up with suicide threats being sent my way multiple times a day? False rape accusations? False domestic violence accusations? In this chicks case random outbursts of violence and attempting to manipulate me into accepting that I am the one being abusive? These types of relationships can absolutely RUIN you, and what does everyone I've ever known to drag people into these relationships have in common? Fukked up upbringings, daddy issues, etc.

Sorry but I'm going to stick with girls that I don't have to destroy my soul for.

If you haven't learned yet how self destructive it is to try to play the knight in shining armor for a girl like this life will force this lesson upon you someday. And there's not a teacher in the world as harsh as life.

[phantogram]

If you agree with Wakeup then you shouldn't take exception to anything I said, so what's your stance exactly?

I avoid people who have been abused and suffer from depression because I don't like being in Vincenzo's position. Are you reading his posts? Have you ever been in that position yourself? I've been in a similar position and it's absolute hell. I've seen others in that position before and it was absolute hell for them as well.

Yeah, it sucks for the poor girl but how much do you think I'm obligated to subject myself to because of her? What about what's fair to me? Am I supposed to risk being dragged into an emotional abyss right alongside her? Am I supposed to put myself in a situation where dysfunctional relationships are the norm? Accept a drastically increased likelihood of being cheated on? Put myself in situations where if I decide to break things off with her I could end up with suicide threats being sent my way multiple times a day? False rape accusations? False domestic violence accusations? In this chicks case random outbursts of violence and attempting to manipulate me into accepting that I am the one being abusive? These types of relationships can absolutely RUIN you, and what does everyone I've ever known to drag people into these relationships have in common? Fukked up upbringings, daddy issues, etc.

Sorry but I'm going to stick with girls that I don't have to destroy my soul for.

If you haven't learned yet how self destructive it is to try to play the knight in shining armor for a girl like this life will force this lesson upon you someday. And there's not a teacher in the world as harsh as life.

Again, I just got the impression from your post that you're saying that a girl who has dealt with these very serious problems is some sort of hopelessly lost cause. If that's not what you're saying, please correct me.

But my main sentiment is that there's a middle ground between ostracizing people who have been abused and trying to be some sort of white knight. The former is callous, while the latter is impractical and will eventually drive you nuts. If it's the right person, you have at least try to find a proper balance between providing support and allowing her space to address her problems. That's not always possible, but it is sometimes. But yeah, if you're getting horribly bogged down in a hopeless situation, by all means, GET OUT. But ostracizing abuse victims just seems mean.

And yes, I have read Vincenzo's posts, and yes I have dealt with this sort of thing before, albeit in a much less extreme way (nothing even remotely close to suicide came into play in my situation)

[BackUpOrGetStng]

This bitch is a hopelessly lost cause. Vincenzo, you've been dating on and off for 9 years. She's ****ed around on you. She's violent. She blames you for it all. What do you want from this relationship?

[dickriculous]

Again, I just got the impression from your post that you're saying that a girl who has dealt with these very serious problems is some sort of hopelessly lost cause. If that's not what you're saying, please correct me.

They are hopelessly lost causes in many cases. I get that some of them aren't but even then there may still be a lot of baggage to carry and a lot of problems to sort out, and you never know if underlying issues you didn't catch at first could cause all of the problems I outlined in my previous post later in the relationship when you think all is well. If that's a risk you want to take then be my guest. As for me, I have every right to avoid that risk without being accused of some kind of wrong doing.

But my main sentiment is that there's a middle ground between ostracizing people who have been abused and trying to be some sort of white knight. The former is callous, while the latter is impractical and will eventually drive you nuts. If it's the right person, you have at least try to find a proper balance between providing support and allowing her space to address her problems. That's not always possible, but it is sometimes. But yeah, if you're getting horribly bogged down in a hopeless situation, by all means, GET OUT. But ostracizing abuse victims just seems mean.

I know it seems mean. But there's a price to meeting your standard of "nice" that I'm not willing to pay and that's to risk ending up in the situations i talked about in my last post by getting involved with girls who have these types of pasts. The risk is much higher. My solution to the problem is to eliminate that risk - something your middle ground doesn't necessarily do, as it gives her a chance to drop baggage on your shoulders, pull you down to her emotional level, get way too attached to you, make breaking up with her hell for both of you, etc.

From what I can make of this middle ground you speak of you're basically saying give her a chance, try to help if you can (but understand when you can't) and if it leaves you horribly bogged down then get out. Problem is if you wait until you're horribly bogged down it's too late to get out without trauma, which is why the most logical solution is to not let it get to that point in the first place - aka don't get involved. Make sense?

OR let's say you take said middle ground, all seems well one way or another - maybe you actually helped her get over her issues - and you get attached to her. All still seems well a couple of years later and you get married. THEN the issues start manifesting themselves in ways that she had been able to inhibit until she grew complacent with you. Now you've got another (rather common) problem that can't be resolved by any method other than not getting involved in the first place. In fact you now have what's most likely the biggest problem of all scenarios.

And how many good women without issues could you potentially miss while you're going through all this, trying to fix someone that may or may not be fixable and even if she is fixable the fix isn't going to be permanent and could require constant maintenance over a lifetime?

[phantogram]

But the thing is, everyone has baggage, that's how people work. And when you enter into a relationship, there's always a certain level of risk for heartbreak, disappointment, sadness, etc. It's always a matter of assessing that risk against the benefits of being with a person you feel something strong for. Needless to say though, the risk in this situation seems exceedingly high, and I think BackUpOrGetStng has the right idea here. On again off again for nine years is really, really not good, and Vincenzo, I think its safe to say she needs to work out her problems on her own. You tried, it speaks really well to your character, and you can be proud of yourself for that.

[dickriculous]

Of course everyone has baggage, and of course there's always risks. My point is that I aim to minimize them, and the best way to do that is by not getting involved with certain people. By getting involved with them in the first place you are increasing the risk and increasing (on average) the amount of baggage - which I explained in depth in my last post. For your logic to have merit, all risks and baggage associated with everyone would have to be equal and that is far from the case.

Bottom line, I'm not going to subject myself to increased risks and additional problems just to meet some arbitrary standard of niceness and strong character. You brought up risks against benefits. The risks vs benefits in situations like this are EXTREMELY unfavorable compared to the risks vs benefits of dating a happy, loving girl with fewer issues. I choose not to subject myself to that type of situation. You can if you want, but life might just bite you in the ass a little harder than you expect for your troubles.

[phantogram]

I think at this point we're just arguing in circles about semantics. Point is, it's best to be involved with someone who is happy and able to properly accept and give love, whether they have very little baggage or have figured out how to consistently manage it. Can we agree to that?