Why can't I be "normal"?

[toknow]

Smart man. It's good you are thinking of this at this age and not having the illusion of being young and having lots of time, because you don't.

[stan92964]

I was single for a lot of years after my divorce and when I finally went on line, there were more women who didn't write back than did, but,remember you only need just one that works. I did have a lot of fun in the process. I think it's good to be picky and know what you want, I was that way. I also studied what makes a good relationship work and when I found what I was looking for I also paid attention to what she wants and needs. We have been married for more than 10 years and I am the happiest I have ever been in my life. I think good habits are hard to form but bring one more happiness in the end. I think you can't just look for what kind of woman will make you happy but learn what she needs and wants and make her happy too, or it doesn't work.

[Indestructible]

Smart man. It's good you are thinking of this at this age and not having the illusion of being young and having lots of time, because you don't.

That's kinda bleak. :/ I've been pondering this stuff for years, now, and still haven't made any progress. I suspect I'll still be trying to figure it out for several more years to come. v_v

I think you can't just look for what kind of woman will make you happy but learn what she needs and wants and make her happy too, or it doesn't work.

Well, right, that's kinda what I said in one of my previous posts. I try to look at it both ways when I consider a girl. Of course we're all going to immediately think "What can she offer me?", but I always try to consider "What can I do for her?". For me, those two questions are kind of tied together. If I find a girl I like, I usually do feel like I have something to offer to her. But for the majority of girls, I don't feel like I connect with them, and because of that, I don't feel like I'd have much to offer them. Does that make sense?

[stan92964]

You are right, I remember you did say you looked at what you wanted and also what you thought you had to offer her.
The main thing I wanted to encourage you about is that I believe persistence wins and I do think there is someone out there for every one ... in fact, several someones.
When I started writing to women, I wrote to a women every day for 3 years ... most didn't write back. I think that is a common experience. And as you experienced, most that did respond. I was not interested enough to pursue them. When I did finally find one that really interested me, it turned out that I met 2 that interested me and I had a hard time deciding which one I wanted to be with but the final outcome is great. There is 125 million single people on line looking for love ... I just want to encourage you to be persistent and don't give up. She's out there.

[rayna]

I'm kind of the same way... My mind does this automatic analysis when I meet someone. I actually estimate how long the relationship would last if we made it work. I don't do this on purpose, it just manifests itself as this gut feeling. So in away I can understand where you're coming from. I've struggled with dating too and am still single for various reasons.

I think if you want to meet someone outside your usual social circle...How about try challenging yourself? Set a goal to talk to x number of strangers each week and you may run into someone interesting. If your city holds any events open to the public... Join! I think generally just trying to be more open to small talk with strangers will help you meet people (quite unconventional still but hey there are no rules). At the least you share a smile with a stranger and surprisingly feel in a better mood. I've never actually made new friends this way but one of my best friends did. Just an idea to throw out there.

[Indestructible]

I think if you want to meet someone outside your usual social circle...How about try challenging yourself? Set a goal to talk to x number of strangers each week and you may run into someone interesting. If your city holds any events open to the public... Join! I think generally just trying to be more open to small talk with strangers will help you meet people (quite unconventional still but hey there are no rules). At the least you share a smile with a stranger and surprisingly feel in a better mood. I've never actually made new friends this way but one of my best friends did. Just an idea to throw out there.

To be honest, I wish I even had a "social circle" (at least then, maybe I could meet girls through friends). Seems like I'm not even good at making friends. And I assume that I can't actually date and have a proper girlfriend until I have friends and an active social life. So, technically, I guess I really should be starting there, but to me, it seems even more daunting trying to put together a group of friends than it does to find one girlfriend (not to mention, I think I'd rather have one "best" friend, a girl, then a bunch of "regular" friends, but that's just me).

I dunno, I don't even really know how to meet people and make friends. I don't actively avoid people, or anything like that, but I'm very introverted. Approaching strangers and trying to get something going with them is just something I never think about and honestly don't even know how to do. I'm not great at conversations as it is, let alone starting one.

Not to mention, there's really no hobbies or interests of mine that get me out in the world. The stuff I enjoy most is stuff I do in the privacy of my own home, and there just isn't anything that makes me think "I'd like to go here and do this". I mean, if I had friends and they said "Hey, let's go here" or "We're going to go do this, you want to come?", I'd go. But other than that, I have nothing else pushing me out into the world.

I had hoped I'd be able to make friends at college and/ or at work. Nothing ever panned out in college, now I'm almost done with school. I came very close to becoming better friends with some coworkers last year, but suddenly all the progress I made with them disappeared and I'm back where I was before with them.

So like I said, I'm guessing that if I can't have friends, I can't ever have a girlfriend. Aside from my apparent inability to connect with people and keep them in my life, I can't imagine any girl would really be cool with having a boyfriend that has no friends or social life.

[VincenzoG91]

To be honest, I wish I even had a "social circle" (at least then, maybe I could meet girls through friends). Seems like I'm not even good at making friends. And I assume that I can't actually date and have a proper girlfriend until I have friends and an active social life. So, technically, I guess I really should be starting there, but to me, it seems even more daunting trying to put together a group of friends than it does to find one girlfriend (not to mention, I think I'd rather have one "best" friend, a girl, then a bunch of "regular" friends, but that's just me).

I dunno, I don't even really know how to meet people and make friends. I don't actively avoid people, or anything like that, but I'm very introverted. Approaching strangers and trying to get something going with them is just something I never think about and honestly don't even know how to do. I'm not great at conversations as it is, let alone starting one.

Not to mention, there's really no hobbies or interests of mine that get me out in the world. The stuff I enjoy most is stuff I do in the privacy of my own home, and there just isn't anything that makes me think "I'd like to go here and do this". I mean, if I had friends and they said "Hey, let's go here" or "We're going to go do this, you want to come?", I'd go. But other than that, I have nothing else pushing me out into the world.

I had hoped I'd be able to make friends at college and/ or at work. Nothing ever panned out in college, now I'm almost done with school. I came very close to becoming better friends with some coworkers last year, but suddenly all the progress I made with them disappeared and I'm back where I was before with them.

So like I said, I'm guessing that if I can't have friends, I can't ever have a girlfriend. Aside from my apparent inability to connect with people and keep them in my life, I can't imagine any girl would really be cool with having a boyfriend that has no friends or social life.

If you don't have friends, you probably aren't ready to handle a serious relationship. You need to step away from the computer screen and the gaming console and get out in the world. If none of your current hobbies are suitable, then you need to pick a new hobby or activity that will help you meet people. And use that activity to work on talking to people, because if you aren't talking to people enough, you're not likely to make any connections with them. It's a shame that you weren't able to do that in college, because that is a really easy time to make friends.

[Indestructible]

If none of your current hobbies are suitable, then you need to pick a new hobby or activity that will help you meet people. And use that activity to work on talking to people, because if you aren't talking to people enough, you're not likely to make any connections with them.

I guess, but what do I do when I have no real interest in anything? I can't think of anything I'd like to do or try that would get me out and interacting with people. And unless I'm really into something, I tend to not hold much of an interest in keeping with it. I don't even know how to figure out what's "out there", as far as stuff to do to meet people, yanno?

It's a shame that you weren't able to do that in college, because that is a really easy time to make friends.

Yeah. :/ It always seemed like everyone just kinda kept to themselves, or they already had at least a friend or two to tag around with and take classes with. As an introvert, I fell into the "keep to myself" category. Never had any interest in any extracurricular activities.

If you don't have friends, you probably aren't ready to handle a serious relationship.

Probably. v_v Meeting people and making friends just seems extra hard for me, compared to a lot of other people I know. It's like I just never learned how to do it. For me, it's like trying to read a book that's written in a foreign language, when I have no knowledge of the language, nor any tools to help me translate.

What really sucks, too, is I used to know this one guy that I really wanted to be good friends with. The reason being is, he was exactly the kind of guy I wished I could be. I never let on to him (because guys sharing any kind of emotional connection like that just seems weird), but I looked up to him a lot, and I was hoping I'd learn from him, and he and I could eventually be good friends, and with any luck, I'd branch out from there. But, he exited my life way before I ever got to that point. He and I still talked on Facebook a lot, and he'd always chime in and write something stupid (in a good, funny way, I mean) on the stuff I'd write. I kinda tried a few times to see if he'd want to hang out, but he never really gave me much of answer any time.

The last girl I was super into was actually his sister-in-law. I knew him longer than I knew her, though, and I didn't fall for her until after he was out of my life. When I thought I had a chance with her, I got really excited, because I thought it would be win-win; I'd get to date an awesome girl, and I'd get to see that guy again and hopefully have an awesome friend and the start of a nice happy social life. Then, of course, she turned me down, and eventually started dating this other guy I know, and it's been bugging me that I saw this awesome life for myself right there, and now this other guy gets to have everything I wanted.

On top of that, her brother-in-law (the guy I wanted to be friends with) has stopped interacting with me on Facebook. I don't know if that's just because he doesn't use it as much anymore, or if she and/ or her boyfriend told him stuff about me and he's backed off from me because of that, or what. Kinda sucks. Even though it wasn't much, I always liked being able to joke around with him on Facebook.

Last fall, I was trying to become better friends with some acquaintances I see fairly regularly. My thought process was that I could start from the bottom and work my way up; I'd become better friends with them, then they'd eventually introduce me to their friends, and I'd become friends with their friends, then friends with their friends' friends, and so on, until I had a nice social life going. I felt like I was kinda making progress, because I was opening up more to people and trying to "hold back" less around them, and many of them told me that I was pretty cool now that I was "coming out of my shell". But somewhere along the lines, that progress just stopped suddenly and regressed back to the way it was before, and that caused me to bum out super hard (I still haven't bounced back, really).

Part of me is still hurting because I saw that awesome life for myself, with that girl and her brother-in-law, and not only could I not have it, but I have to live with the fact that some other guy I never liked very much to begin with is getting to have that life. And part of me is confused by the way people seem to just stop having any interest in me and back off. I don't get it. People seem to like me when I start opening up, but somewhere along the lines, they just stop suddenly, and pull away from me.

[HeheMan]

At least you don't want to **** your own mother like irish121 does.

[pcmaster]

Well you still can get friends, proper job, hobbies and girlfriend. You have to start somewhere if you dont want spend rest of your life alone. No ones will gona live for you, everything that you want is to be achieved by your own will. Start to live !

[Indestructible]

Well you still can get friends, proper job, hobbies and girlfriend. You have to start somewhere if you dont want spend rest of your life alone. No ones will gona live for you, everything that you want is to be achieved by your own will. Start to live !

Well yeah, I mean, I know that it all comes down to me, but I just can't figure out how to change myself. I'm trying to understand. I've been trying to understand for a few years now. But I just don't. I just don't understand how to meet people, and how to make friends, and how to keep friends, and how to date, and all of that. To people who have a relatively healthy social life (which is most people), that probably sounds bizarre, and they probably can't even wrap their heads around someone being this way. But that's pretty much how I feel about the opposite. Like I said, it's like a foreign language to me, and I have nothing to help me "decipher" it.

Truth be told, I'm feeling even more isolated now, as well. Due to my lack of social life, I've been using online communities and forums like these just to have some interaction with people in my life. But people are starting to get fed up with me and my inability to overcome my problems, and I'm starting to no longer feel welcome anywhere. I've already left several of my favorite Internet forums because I just felt like I was becoming a burden.

I've even decided that, at the end of the week, I'm going to deactivate my Facebook account. This one kinda hurts the most, because it's the only "lifeline" I have to the people around me, and it's been nice being able to keep up with them, but it's also super depressing, because they all have friends, love lives, careers, and I have nothing. It's just becoming a constant reminder of all the things I can't let myself have. But, it's not like any of these people even care. They're all pretty much indifferent to me at this point. Nobody ever writes or responds to anything I say. I liked it because I feel like I actually had "friends" to keep up with, but I guess what I have with them isn't really "friendship" at all. The Internet communities and forums have given me a lot of solace, but the truth is, it's all a fantasy world, I don't actually know anybody on any of these communities, I'm not actually friends with any of them, and I'm starting to feel like I should just get away from all of it and settle on into the "hole" I've dug for myself.

[rayna]

To be honest, I wish I even had a "social circle" (at least then, maybe I could meet girls through friends). Seems like I'm not even good at making friends. And I assume that I can't actually date and have a proper girlfriend until I have friends and an active social life. So, technically, I guess I really should be starting there, but to me, it seems even more daunting trying to put together a group of friends than it does to find one girlfriend (not to mention, I think I'd rather have one "best" friend, a girl, then a bunch of "regular" friends, but that's just me).

I dunno, I don't even really know how to meet people and make friends. I don't actively avoid people, or anything like that, but I'm very introverted. Approaching strangers and trying to get something going with them is just something I never think about and honestly don't even know how to do. I'm not great at conversations as it is, let alone starting one.

Not to mention, there's really no hobbies or interests of mine that get me out in the world. The stuff I enjoy most is stuff I do in the privacy of my own home, and there just isn't anything that makes me think "I'd like to go here and do this". I mean, if I had friends and they said "Hey, let's go here" or "We're going to go do this, you want to come?", I'd go. But other than that, I have nothing else pushing me out into the world.

I had hoped I'd be able to make friends at college and/ or at work. Nothing ever panned out in college, now I'm almost done with school. I came very close to becoming better friends with some coworkers last year, but suddenly all the progress I made with them disappeared and I'm back where I was before with them.

So like I said, I'm guessing that if I can't have friends, I can't ever have a girlfriend. Aside from my apparent inability to connect with people and keep them in my life, I can't imagine any girl would really be cool with having a boyfriend that has no friends or social life.

Um...let's see...I'm just gonna type in a stream of consciousness fashion.

1) Making friends is not a task. It's not like playing HR and trying to hire/fire people. Friends are people you just meet and share commonalities so you enjoy spending time together. I always had those come and go friends growing up. You know, the ones that really love hanging out with you (or rather stringing you around in their posse so they looked good). In college I made a lot of party friends. They weren't good for anything but, well you guessed it, partying with. I cried to myself many nights because I felt so lonely in my group of "friends." But then in grad school, I met this girl and this guy. I bonded with them separately, mostly over shared frustrations, struggles, and interests. Things got a bit romantic with the guy and we ended up in a bad break up. However, the girl became one of my best friends. She showed me what being a true friend meant. She helped me learn how to be more open (I'm very introverted too), giving, and willing to take sides for those I cared about. The guy and the messy breakup actually taught me what romantic love is/is not. I shared a lot of hard times and tears with these two people. Even though one of them is no longer in my life, I'm grateful for the time I spent with them both because I feel like I walked out a better person.

Long-winded way to say...if you're willing to put yourself out there and risk being hurt, you will find some one who would be willing to stick by your side. It took me awhile...and I definitely was the one that kept taking and taking before I learned to start giving. My biggest take away would have to be...I finally understand those sayings about how you can never know joy without first knowing pain....in a similar way, you can never truly understand true love without out first experiencing the pain of true heartbreak.

2) Ways to meet people: I talk to people when I'm standing in line (at the grocery store, at a Starbucks, trying to get to the bar in a crowded pub, waiting for the freaking bathroom, at a bus stop, etc.)...you know, we talk about things like WTF is this line so long!? And that sometimes leads to other small talk. Other things: recreational sports teams, outdoor groups, church (oh yea they LOVE visitors), bars (not great for finding a date, but you might meet a friend, plus alcohol will help you loosen up and talk more), ...jazz bars? I know some places do those poetry reading things. You could check those out. Hm...what else? Definitely...anything that gets you out of the house! Maybe get a dog and walk it in the park? Volunteer somewhere...like a homeless shelter, animal shelter, a church... Just get out of the house!!

[VeryConfuzzled]

Eh, I'm just saying, I've known plenty of happy couples that met in such a way that they had a "friends first" kind of relationship; I've known couples that met through work, college, and even just through friends. That's what I want, but I just don't understand why I can't seem to have that.

Approaching a bunch of random girls that I know nothing about just seems like such a crapshoot. I'm not saying I'm not willing to "do the work", but I just feel like there should be a better way of going about things than just asking out every girl you happen to pass by.

It's hard for me to NOT idealize quality over quantity. I've seen my fair share of unhappy relationships, too. Heck, my entire family is either married to someone they're unhappy with, divorced, or just otherwise perpetually alone. My family consists of people who cheat on each other, people who only got together due to pregnancy, and/ or people that just don't really love each other but felt they had no other options. I think if I found a girl that liked me, even if I wasn't attracted to her, I'd probably end up staying with her for the rest of my life (unless she ended it first) because at least I'd have someone. But I don't want that, I don't want to end up unhappy, like the rest of my family. So that's why quality is such a big deal to me. Most likely, my first girlfriend is going to be my ONLY girlfriend, and if that's the case, she'd better be one heck of a lady, because I don't want to settle for someone I'm not happy with, but I know I would if presented with that option.

I've always been the nice guy and have tried the friends first approach countless times, it has not worked once. But, just like you, I don't go out just asking random girls to date, usually I become friends with them first, but that's not always a good thing. I fall in love too easily with girl's that were just "friends" at first, but then things go downhill and they haven't worked out for me so far.

[Indestructible]

1) Making friends is not a task. It's not like playing HR and trying to hire/fire people. Friends are people you just meet and share commonalities so you enjoy spending time together.

Right. I just... never seem to have enough of those commonalities with people to become friends (and stay friends). I see myself as sort of... well, I don't want to say "weird", because that makes it sound like a bad thing, but I always just feel very different from everyone around me. I never really feel like I have much in common with the people I come into contact with.

Going further, it seems like when I do start "being me" around people, they'll initially indicate that they think I'm pretty cool, but somewhere along the lines, I always end up falling out of the loop with them, and can't ever get back in. I seem to fly under everyone's radar, and to some extent, I like that, because I don't ever want to get on anyone's bad side or anything like that. But it seems like people overlook me, forget about me, and/ or just generally don't consider me very much. And I don't say that from a place of anger, it's just something that happens. I'm not a charismatic "life of the party" kind of guy that really sticks out in peoples' minds.

2) Ways to meet people: I talk to people when I'm standing in line (at the grocery store, at a Starbucks, trying to get to the bar in a crowded pub, waiting for the freaking bathroom, at a bus stop, etc.)...you know, we talk about things like WTF is this line so long!? And that sometimes leads to other small talk. Other things: recreational sports teams, outdoor groups, church (oh yea they LOVE visitors), bars (not great for finding a date, but you might meet a friend, plus alcohol will help you loosen up and talk more), ...jazz bars? I know some places do those poetry reading things. You could check those out. Hm...what else? Definitely...anything that gets you out of the house! Maybe get a dog and walk it in the park? Volunteer somewhere...like a homeless shelter, animal shelter, a church... Just get out of the house!!

I guess. When you're as introverted as I am, chitchatting with strangers when you're out and about just doesn't occur to me. Truth be told, if some random stranger starts chitchatting with me, I tend to get weirded out at first. So I have sort of a "Do unto others" mentality; as in, if a stranger talking to me weirds me out, than I'd anticipate that I'd come off as weird to a stranger. Besides, I tend to not do well at chitchat, because I just don't care. Don't really care how the weather is, or how long the line is, or whatever.

I kinda need something that forces you to interact with and get to know people. That's why I was hoping I could become friends with coworkers, because working with them put me in a position where I HAD to get to know them in order for us to work together. If there's no external pressure to meet and get to know people, I give into my introverted behaviors and keep to myself. Your other ideas aren't bad, I suppose, but I don't think any of them really fit me. I'm not particularly religious or spiritual, so I'm not interested in getting involved with churches or anything like that. Not really athletic at all, so not interested in sports or anything like that. I'm irked by children, the elderly, and the homeless, so that limits my options on volunteering. I know it sounds like it, but I'm not trying to "make excuses". I just need to find something that's right for me, and I don't know what that is.

I've always been the nice guy and have tried the friends first approach countless times, it has not worked once. But, just like you, I don't go out just asking random girls to date, usually I become friends with them first, but that's not always a good thing. I fall in love too easily with girl's that were just "friends" at first, but then things go downhill and they haven't worked out for me so far.

Yeah, I mean... I just can't seem to operate the "normal" way, when it comes to flirting, dating, and all of that. Like I said, I have zero interest in doing cold approaches to ask out random girls I don't know. It has nothing to do with fear or being scared of rejection, I just can't be attracted to a girl I know nothing about, and if I'm not attracted, I have no interest in asking her out on a date. I don't really have any problems talking to or being friendly with girls, in general. But even when I get to know them, I rarely ever think "I'd like to go on a date with her". Again, once I've interacted with a girl at least a few times, I've already subconsciously processed her personality and decided whether we "click" that way or not. 99% of the time, it's a no.

But when I do find a girl that falls into that 1%, I do tend to get very emotionally invested very quickly. So when she turns down my advances, I take it hard, and it takes me forever to properly move on and let it go. Honestly, I'm still not completely over the last girl I liked, and that was almost a full year ago at this point.

I do my best to avoid falling into the "friend zone", though. I think I said this before in this topic, but I feel like the "friend zone" is based more on how overboard you go. If I like a girl, I try to be cautious and keep a certain level of emotional distance. I don't become a pathetic little puppy dog, I don't become a complete door mat, etc. If anything, when I like a girl, I pull away, at least until I figure out how I really feel and what I want to do about it.

Again, I've seen countless examples of couples that got together after having known each other for a period of time beforehand. People make it out like the "friends first" thing is extremely uncommon and more of a fantasy than a reality. But if this is the case, I don't understand why I've seen it happen so much. And more than that, I don't understand why I can't have that. The whole "ask out and go on dates with random girls you don't know" thing just seems so "not fun" at all, to me. It's like throwing a bunch of stuff against a wall and hoping something sticks. That's not how I want to look at dating. I want to build a foundation of friendship with a girl before I date her. We don't have to be "BFFs" first, but I want a relationship that starts with something real, not "I said hi to this girl at the grocery store, then we started dating".

[VincenzoG91]

Instead throwing all your effort and attention into one female friend, you should be looking for a situation where you can socialize with a whole bunch of women. Maybe take yoga, or a cooking class, or do aerobics. Yeah, yeah, I get that none of those things interest you. But sometimes you need to make sacrifices to reach objectives. Anyway, once you're interacting with a variety of women on a routine basis, maybe you can relax some and get better at small talk. And then instead of trying to convert one of these women into your new hopeless crush, just put out the word that you're single and let them set you up with friends.