Ladies, could you help a dumb naive guy like me understand what, exactly, happened?

[Indestructible]

First of all, let me just say that I am NOT making this topic to lament about the situation, or anything like that. Please refrain from just telling me to "move on", and all that, because I already know that, and that's not what this topic is about. This topic is about educating me and helping me understand, because honestly, I'm too naive and dumb to really understand any of it, myself. I know I've posted about this situation many times already, but again, it's always really been in a lamenting way, and I feel like no one has ever really helped me understand what, exactly, happened. Let me try to break things down into a proper timeline to make this background information easier to read:

- Last year, I was well beyond a point where I had accepted people didn't want to talk to me or be my friend (and certainly not a girlfriend), and I was just content living in my own little bubble. I was reserved and kept to myself, but I was never rude or inhospitable to anyone. Last summer, this girl I work with started popping up around me more, and was becoming very persistent (almost to a degree that I felt uncomfortable for a while) in trying to get me to open up to her. Honestly, I don't know why she was so persistent, since I was still pretty reserved and content in my own little bubble.

- I started coming around, and the more I opened up to her, the more she seemingly wanted to spend time with me at work. I'd be off doing my own thing, and she'd constantly come find me to talk, joke around, or just hang out. It was a lot of fun, and we discovered that we had a ton of things in common, and everything. I feel like I was a very happy, upbeat person during this period, and I feel like I was being the absolute best person I could be. I'd like to think that she could see that I was a mature, good-hearted, warm, funny guy. Naturally, I developed feelings for her and asked her out, but she said no.

- After she turned me down, she started to distance herself from me at work, and that, combined with the rejection itself, made me bum out super hard. Admittedly, I got a bit weird for a couple months, and our relationship at work became strained even more.

- There's another guy we work with that's a super sleazey douchey womanizing "player" type (almost completely stereotypical even), and everybody knows this within about a week or so of knowing him. He literally targets and attempts to sleep with every single girl he encounters, and more often than not, he's successful. So, apparently, before I ever liked this girl, she dated this guy for a little while, but they broke up when he cheated on her (shocking, right?). To make things easier, I'll refer to this guy as "ex #1".

- After she turned my date down, and started distancing herself from me, she started becoming chummy with ex #1 again. As you can imagine, that only added to my feelings of sadness and discontent.

- There's another guy that used to work with us that I always thought was kind of a dumb "frat boy" type, though he hasn't for over a year, now. Apparently, he and this girl kept in touch, though, and started dating earlier this year. They were together for about six months, then they split up recently because he cheated on her (I'm sensing a pattern, here...). This is ex #2.

- Ever since her and ex #2 split, her and ex #1 have pretty much been "best buds" at work. They're seemingly attached at the hip, constantly spending time together, talking and joking about god-knows-what. I'd bet good money that ex #1 (despite supposedly having a girlfriend) wants to get her in bed. Whether he has been (or will be successful), I don't know, and I don't really want to know.

- She's been a bit nicer to me since she split with ex #2, and I feel like we're on better terms now, but we're still nowhere near where we were last year, and it seems like she's much more into spending time with ex #1.

I guess what I find myself curious about is why ex #1 is more "appealing" to be around than someone like me. I mean, he's a sleaze with a silver tongue, and he cheated on her, so why does she want to indulge him and hover around each other so much at work? Why is it that a guy like him is "okay", but someone like me, who only ever had feelings for her, is a "keep away from"? I don't know what will happen with them, and like I said, I know it's none of my business, and again, that's not what this topic is about.

I make this topic because it's incredibly rare for me to find a girl I like, so when it happens, I really need to get it right. If/ when I find someone again some day, I don't want to repeat this same situation, but I've just never felt like I understood it. I never understood why I'm "unattractive" to a girl like her, and why a girl like her would care to indulge the lame "cool guys" and "players" instead.

Of course, I'd be lying if I said I didn't have lingering "something" for this girl, but again, we're not here to discuss how I need to "move on". I'm aware that things with her are a complete and utter lost cause and that there's no chance things will ever be any different. Again, I just want to understand and educate myself on what went wrong, and why those guys "won" and I "lost", because again, I don't want to repeat this later on down the line if I ever manage to find another girl I like enough.

[searock]

I guess what I find myself curious about is why ex #1 is more "appealing" to be around than someone like me. I mean, he's a sleaze with a silver tongue, and he cheated on her, so why does she want to indulge him and hover around each other so much at work? Why is it that a guy like him is "okay", but someone like me, who only ever had feelings for her, is a "keep away from"?

Who knows? She just isn't attracted to you. There doesn't have to be a rational explanation, being attracted to someone has little to do with rationality.

Don't generalize, by the way: don't refer to her with "girls like her", she is a very specific person. She isn't attracted to "guys like him", she is attracted to him and the other guy. She isn't not attracted to "someone like you", she is not attracted to you.

[Indestructible]

Who knows? She just isn't attracted to you. There doesn't have to be a rational explanation, being attracted to someone has little to do with rationality.

But there HAVE to be reasons why them and why not me. I could tell you exactly why I'm attracted to one girl and not another. It's not just something that "is" or "isn't". People aren't attractive and unattractive to us "just because". I don't believe that.

Hence, I want to understand WHY they are "attractive" and WHY I'm "not attractive". I need to know what it is about them that I can't provide, because otherwise I'll continue to "lose" to guys like them.

Don't generalize, by the way: don't refer to her with "girls like her", she is a very specific person. She isn't attracted to "guys like him", she is attracted to him and the other guy. She isn't not attracted to "someone like you", she is not attracted to you.

Why not? Ideally, I want to find and end up with a girl that's exactly like her. But clearly, someone exactly like her would rather date (or at least be good friends with) someone that's less mature, intelligent, and tasteful, and someone that's more "cool", "rugged", and more likely to hurt them.

So if I can understand this one girl and why she's attracted to those guys and why she's not attracted to me, theoretically, that should help me do better if I ever manage to find another girl like her in the future. That's the way I see it, anyway.

[Nightshade]

I think it's just instinctual for most animals. Every lady peacock wants to be with the bird who has tbe most obnoxious screech and the brightest feathers!
I know a lot of women, including myself, prefer alpha males to betas.
Something about the bad boys is very exciting.

[Nightshade]

Maybe on some level, we're really just attracted to the confidence, ambition and success these kind of men exude. Perhaps we equate it to security, and social acceptance. I don't know, but often wonder myself.....

[searock]

But there HAVE to be reasons why them and why not me. I could tell you exactly why I'm attracted to one girl and not another. It's not just something that "is" or "isn't". People aren't attractive and unattractive to us "just because". I don't believe that.

Believe what you want, but it simply doesn't work like that, for most people. Even if it did, only SHE could answer your question.

Hence, I want to understand WHY they are "attractive" and WHY I'm "not attractive". I need to know what it is about them that I can't provide, because otherwise I'll continue to "lose" to guys like them.

This doesn't make sense. She is one very specific person, there may be other girls that are just like her (under the aspects that make her attractive to you) that would not be attracted to those two guys and/or that would be attracted to you.

Why not?

Because everybody is different. Just because SHE is attracted to those two particular guys doesn't mean that all the girls that are similar to her (under the aspects that make her attractive to you) are attracted to guys that are similar to those two guys (under the aspects you talk about).

But clearly, someone exactly like her would rather date (or at least be good friends with) someone that's less mature, intelligent, and tasteful, and someone that's more "cool", "rugged", and more likely to hurt them.

There is only one person in the world that is exactly like her: her. And even then, you cannot tell for sure that she would rather date anyone with those properties, or that she wouldn't date someone with different properties. All you know is that she would date those specific two guys (which do have those properties), rather than you.

So if I can understand this one girl and why she's attracted to those guys and why she's not attracted to me, theoretically, that should help me do better if I ever manage to find another girl like her in the future.

No, it shouldn't, actually.

[Wakeup]

I think she likes the type of men who don't have to ask the types of questions you ask, Industructible. The type of men that don't care if she isnt' attracted to them because there are plenty more out there that will be. It's called having options and exercising them.
You know, the type of man who knows he has options and if she doesn't show him that she has something more then sex to offer him, he'll move on to someone else so she tries harder to keep the connection going.

I heard on a television programme the other day, a good looking woman of 35 say: "Bad boys will love you an leave you, but while they're with you, they are the best." Hardly good LIFEmate material is she. She's in it for the drama and excitement while she sub-consciously chooses those types because she herself isn't ready to actually commit for life.

Before she even said that I said to the hubby: "She's got some psyche problems, that one."

[Wakeup]

There is also the possibility that she is attracted to guys that cheat on her (yes, seems there is a pattern) because that is how either her mother or her father was and therefore it is the type of person she is comfortable with, who she's been programmed to find as a mate (sadly). They say no matter what our sex is, we are attracted to members of the opposite sex who remind us of either our mother or our father.

You might do well to read some stuff on psychology to figure this girl (as well as others) out. You might also stop letting women be the pursuer and rather you yourself pursue someone who is quiet and reserved and not brazen enough to pursue you until you cave...

[Indestructible]

I think she likes the type of men who don't have to ask the types of questions you ask, Industructible. The type of men that don't care if she isnt' attracted to them because there are plenty more out there that will be. It's called having options and exercising them.
You know, the type of man who knows he has options and if she doesn't show him that she has something more then sex to offer him, he'll move on to someone else so she tries harder to keep the connection going.

Hm. Well, I'm not the kind of guy that has options, so I don't know where that leaves me. :/

They say no matter what our sex is, we are attracted to members of the opposite sex who remind us of either our mother or our father.

That's what scares me, that I'll end up with someone like my mother. I can't stand my mother, and not only that, but she's mentally and emotionally abusive towards my father, and frequently cheats on him with old boyfriends. I obviously don't want to end up with someone like that, so I tend to consciously look for women that don't remind me of my mom at all.

Actually... Maybe that partially explains why I have such a hard time finding girls I actually like, because many of them remind me of my mom in one way or another. I'm so resistant to ending up with someone like my mom that I'm desperate to find someone that's not like her in any way at all. Of course, then when I do find someone that's different, she's not attracted to me... Blah.

You might also stop letting women be the pursuer and rather you yourself pursue someone who is quiet and reserved and not brazen enough to pursue you until you cave...

To be fair, I don't actually expect girls to pursue me. The only reason it happened that way with this girl was because I had already given up on the idea of dating and finding someone I liked, so I wasn't really paying attention, and her persistence stood out to me and got the gears turning in my head.

People have kind of suggested I pursue "quiet reserved" kind of girls, and while I, myself, am a bit of an introvert, I'm more attracted to girls that are more extroverted. I think it goes back to qualities that remind me of my mom; my mom, publicly, is a "quiet shy" type, a more "homely" kind of woman, and while I, myself, have "inherited" some of those introverted qualities, those qualities turn me off in other people, specifically girls, because it reminds me too much of my mom.

[Wakeup]

Hm. Well, I'm not the kind of guy that has options, so I don't know where that leaves me. :/

That leaves you with the type of woman that is mature enough to know that sex isn't the only thing that needs being good between two people.

That's what scares me, that I'll end up with someone like my mother. I can't stand my mother, and not only that, but she's mentally and emotionally abusive towards my father, and frequently cheats on him with old boyfriends.

I think you're like your father.

I obviously don't want to end up with someone like that, so I tend to consciously look for women that don't remind me of my mom at all.

Well, if that's the case then why even bother caring why someone like this girl you talk about goes after guys she goes after? Why care? I think you do because your like your father and you've learned to be a door mat who takes abuse from his wife and stays for even more. Don't be like him while you focus on not finding someone like your mother. Anyway, this girl, She's shown you that she's not the type of girl that would be good for you so dodged a bullet when she turned down your request for a date. She's not mature enough or with enough self-respect/worth to be able to maintain a good and long relationship with someone who treats her well. (kinda like your mom by the sounds of things).

Actually... Maybe that partially explains why I have such a hard time finding girls I actually like, because many of them remind me of my mom in one way or another. I'm so resistant to ending up with someone like my mom that I'm desperate to find someone that's not like her in any way at all. Of course, then when I do find someone that's different, she's not attracted to me... Blah.

Maybe you should stop worrying about finding one like your mother and put more focus on finding one more like your dad instead? The power of positive thinking. Of course you don't want a codependent doormat either but rather someone who is mature and with a healthy sense of self who will appreaciate a guy who would never be like his cheating, douchey mother.

To be fair, I don't actually expect girls to pursue me.

No one implied that you expect such a thing.. only that you avoid the ones that actually do.

The only reason it happened that way with this girl was because I had already given up on the idea of dating and finding someone I liked, so I wasn't really paying attention, and her persistence stood out to me and got the gears turning in my head.

Yea... like I said, stay away from the one's that pursue you and instead you pursue those that are more reserved.

People have kind of suggested I pursue "quiet reserved" kind of girls, and while I, myself, am a bit of an introvert, I'm more attracted to girls that are more extroverted.

That would be because of your mother's influence. Like I said, we tend to pursue a mate that reminds us of our mother or our father. That's why you prefer someone more extroverted. See the paradox?

I think it goes back to qualities that remind me of my mom; my mom, publicly, is a "quiet shy" type, a more "homely" kind of woman, and while I, myself, have "inherited" some of those introverted qualities, those qualities turn me off in other people, specifically girls, because it reminds me too much of my mom.

Uhm I think you've read your mother quite wrongly. Shy, quiet type? Yet she cheated on your father. (hardly shy and reserved is she?) Your father is the shy and reserved one, I'd say. Quite the push-over actually (since he stayed after her abuse)

[Indestructible]

Uhm I think you've read your mother quite wrongly. Shy, quiet type? Yet she cheated on your father. (hardly shy and reserved is she?) Your father is the shy and reserved one, I'd say. Quite the push-over actually (since he stayed after her abuse)

Well what I'm saying is, that's the act she puts on to everyone. That's the act she puts on to me (she has zero idea I know anything about what she's REALLY like). She plays this sweet, shy, innocent, reserved, loving little lady, but I know that it's all a ruse. And again, she has no idea that I know what she's really like. What's that saying? A "wolf in sheep's clothing"? That's what my mom is.

So yeah, I'm wary of the more "reserved, quiet, homely" girls, because who knows what could really be hiding underneath that? I prefer extroverted girls because they're more likely to be brash and fairly open with who they really are. Obviously, that's not always the case, but I'd rather pursue a girl that's more upfront about who they are.

[Indestructible]

Aw. She hasn't really said anything to me about it, but I just realized that this girl did something pretty nice for me that she totally didn't have to do. Honestly, I'm surprised she'd do nice things for me, considering the iffy things that have happened in the past between us. Ah well.

[searock]

Oh man... you'll never move on, will you?

[basilandthyme]

But there HAVE to be reasons why them and why not me. I could tell you exactly why I'm attracted to one girl and not another. It's not just something that "is" or "isn't". People aren't attractive and unattractive to us "just because". I don't believe that..

You may not believe it, but this is exactly how it is for me. As it so happens, I'm attracted to shorter men who look like the average joe and I have no idea why.

[Indestructible]

Oh man... you'll never move on, will you?

When I still see this girl fairly frequently, as well as find myself unable to meet and become attracted to other girls, it's extremely difficult to not let old feelings linger. When one or both of those things change, I think I'll start to move past it a little. Regardless, I already know nothing will ever actually happen.

You may not believe it, but this is exactly how it is for me. As it so happens, I'm attracted to shorter men who look like the average joe and I have no idea why.

Eh. If you say so. Personally, I just think there has to be more to it than that.