Do you believe in monogamy?

[Wakeup]

again you say you were doing one thing when you were actually not doing that at all. Anyway, peace out. One thing I've learned is trying to make you see what you've done is useless. BTW: your discription of poly relationships is very narrow. you're mostly talking about arranged marriages. In Poly relationships (except in Mormon type brainwashing cults) poly is agreed to and welcomed by all.

[dickriculous]

Michelle, the study you cite on male prairie voles being injected with vasopressin becoming more territorial and protective toward their mate is very interesting, but you still have to make a giant leap to go from that to "humans are naturally monogamous". If you can cite source that shows clearly that humans naturally have this level of vasopressin it would certainly reduce that leap that must be made. I ran a google search and found nothing to indicate that humans are supposed to have these levels of vasopressin, or that it is unnatural for them not to. I also found nothing to indicate that there is any such thing as a "correct" level of vasopressin as you describe.

As for no evidence of us being polygamous, I have shown you this evidence before. First of all, observe the sexual behavior of our closest relatives https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonobo#Sexual_social_behavior

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_chimpanzee#Mating_and_parenting

Genome projects have concluded that our DNA is anywhere between 96% and 99% identical to that of the common chimpanzee and the bonobo ape. On top of that, the vasopressin receptor gene has been found in both species. Yet they are still polygamous.

More over, geneticists have revealed based on the changes in human DNA for as far back as modern science is capable of going that we HAD to have been polygamous for most of that time in order to be as diverse in our chromosomes as we are now. I don't see how one study that explains what could happen as a result of vasopressin injections overrides our genetic history which reveals what actually did happen.

And the thing here is, no leaps have to be made like they do with the vasopressin issue. The findings of this evidence are pretty black and white and point directly to polygamous tendencies throughout our history both dating back to us as humans as far back as scientists can go and even further back to when we were all apes.

[Insomniash]

In response to your original question Michelle, yes I am unwaveringly monogamous when I am in a relationship. I choose to be monogamous and if I ever get the desire to be with someone else it is because I am not satisfied any longer and I need to move on. I have never cheated on anyone and always opt to end a relationship before involving myself with someone else. When I am truly in love I have "blinders" on and the idea of sex with anyone else in reality actually repulses me. I have never personally felt romantic love for two people at the same time. As you know from my other post I am in a casual but progressively deepening relationship, and as a result my monogamous nature has kicked in and I have stopped considering other men as options. The older I get the tougher it is for me to reach this point of commitment, but that is likely due to being a bit more cautious about jumping into relationships and taking things much slower. Not that it means that I run around having sex with every other potential mate until it kicks in, but I consider others until it does.

Monogamy may not be for everyone but I am truly happy being committed to only one person and I expect the same of my partner. My longest relationship lasted for 8 years and I did not have any issue whatsoever with being completely monogamous throughout. I have dated people who have previously been in open/polyamourous relationships and it did not work out well because when it came down to it as much as they claimed to want monogamy they had a difficult time shaking their past behaviours. I would never agree to an open relationship, and I make that clear from the start. I always tell potential partners that if they would like to have sex with others they need to find someone else to be with and save me the hassle.

[Wakeup]

In response to your original question Michelle, yes I am unwaveringly monogamous when I am in a relationship. I choose to be monogamous and if I ever get the desire to be with someone else it is because I am not satisfied any longer and I need to move on. I have never cheated on anyone and always opt to end a relationship before involving myself with someone else. When I am truly in love I have "blinders" on and the idea of sex with anyone else in reality actually repulses me.

Yea, the current term for your beliefs and actions is called "serial monogamy"

"When I am in a relationship" is very telling. Or, do you also mean that when you're not in a relationship you'd never have sex with more then one person even if you've not committed to one another quite yet?

Adding link: (I'm not saying the link pertains to your particular dating strategies/beliefs/dynamics, Insomnia... just adding something I find interesting. There are many other article that have a different slan on the definition of "serial monogamists" t then the one below.

http://www.drsamvonreiche.com/2012/06/serial-monogamy/

[michelle23]

Sorry guys im on my phone till tues so i cant answer your questions or offer links until i have my laptop. And i cant read the links you provided until then either.

The reason i find it hard to believe that humans are not naturally monogamous is coz i literally only have eyes for one man. I dont even fantasize about others.. Which indicates at the very least that SOME humans are 100% naturally monogamous.

Ill just add that it is silly to compare humans to wild animals. Those animals may be our closest relatives but they are not half as advances as we are-nor do they have the complex emotions that humans have. They ct purely on survival instinct. The only natural survival instincts humans use now are babies who are born with natural instincts. I shall post a link on this too. When we reach a certain age-we no longer need most if not all of these.

Our blink and gag instincts are likely the only ones that we never stop using

[michelle23]

Dick the reason i found that study so interesting is because they studied two types of voles. Praire voles and montane voles.

These voles are identical in every way except praires are monogamous and montanes are promiscious. The only difference they found in their hormones was that they had different vasopressin receptors.

They then concluded that, that could be the difference between human males too. It could be in their gennes whether they are faithful or unfaithful.

They also showed differences in behaviour ie. How to spot a man who has the faithful gene compared to men who dont.

It was v interesting. I will post the link on tues. Hopefully i can find it lol

[Jffs24]

I am not asking whether you believe or not that humans are meant to be monogamous/non monogamous.

I am asking your honest opinion on whether you believe in monogamy for yourself personally? Do you choose to be monogamous to keep others happy? Would you rather not be? Are you happy being committed, loyal and faithful? Would you ever agree to an open relationship etc

Honest answers please and give details

Thanks

Never cheated, if I feel I have more feelings elsewhere I express that and we break up -- then I pursue.
So yes, I believe in monogamy. Because I don't **** two people at once .
Open relationships are problems waiting to happen IMO -- I'd rather not deal with those kind of problems.

[michelle23]

again you say you were doing one thing when you were actually not doing that at all. Anyway, peace out. One thing I've learned is trying to make you see what you've done is useless..

I dont even know what your going on about now. Ive answered your qs and been nothing but respectful towards you. You derailed my thread by making this a nature vs nurture debate once again. I didt even want to discuss that as i no its like discussing religion or politics. Everyone has their own beliefs and just because i dont always agree with you doesnt mean there is something wrong with me. I already stated on page 1 that i respect others views on this topic and i did read your link. I dont care what you think of me. If you have a problem its your problem-not mine.

[Insomniash]

Yea, the current term for your beliefs and actions is called "serial monogamy"

"When I am in a relationship" is very telling. Or, do you also mean that when you're not in a relationship you'd never have sex with more then one person even if you've not committed to one another quite yet?

Adding link: (I'm not saying the link pertains to your particular dating strategies/beliefs/dynamics, Insomnia... just adding something I find interesting. There are many other article that have a different slan on the definition of "serial monogamists" t then the one below.

I am well aware what serial monogamy is, and it doesn't quite describe me although now that I read back I can see how I conveyed that. I didn't mean to imply that I have my next one lined up before leaving a relationship because that has never been the case. After my 8 year marriage ended I spent 9 months single without involving myself with anyone sexually or dating. When I decided to start dating again I had a 3 month relationship and then remained single with the odd encounter/date for a year but nothing particularly serious. At which point I met someone and spent a year and a half in that relationship but I have been single for 8 months now. While I have been on and off and progressively involved with the one I described as casual above for the past 4 months I am still very much living like a single person with the odd date.

Generally speaking I have a rule that I will not have sex with two people concurrently whether or not there is commitment involved. This is for obvious reasons, such as, the prevention of spreading a disease, or in the event of an accidental pregnancy. Of course contraception is used but we all know that isn't 100% effective against either. After all, I wouldn't want to end up on an episode of Maury requesting a paternity test nor would I want to be informing a bunch of men that I have possibly given them a disease. Both would be rather embarrassing situations to be in lol.

[Wakeup]

I dont even know what your going on about now. Ive answered your qs and been nothing but respectful towards you.

and I have not been disrespectful to you either. You said one thing and then you say you said another. As you often do.

I'm not going to go back and forth trying to explain to you how/why or where you did this. I was simply saying that you did and it's clear to me where you have. I'll not speak for others.

You derailed my thread by making this a nature vs nurture debate once again. I didt even want to discuss that as i no its like discussing religion or politics. Everyone has their own beliefs and just because i dont always agree with you doesnt mean there is something wrong with me.

no one said just because you don't agree with me there is something wrong with you. Nor have I derailed your thread.. we are still talking about monogamy and belief on it, those that do as well as those that do not. If all you wanted was "yes I am monogamous and I believe in it" responses, then yes, I've derailed it.

I already stated on page 1 that i respect others views on this topic and i did read your link. I dont care what you think of me. If you have a problem its your problem-not mine.

SMH. Your statement is derailing your own thread.. I don't care what I think of you either because I don't think personally of you... any comments are about your thread and what's been said in it, that's all. Try not to care so much what I say or put so much importance in what you say so that when it's challenged you'll not react so strongly.

[michelle23]

I dont see how i have said one thing and then said another. All ive been giving here is my PERSONAL opinion and i also said i will provide links as to where these opinions were formed on tuesday if people want them.

[Rowen]

For me, maybe I'm a little old fashioned, but I believe you're either with me or we're not in a relationship. I know open relationships work for others, and if they want them, great. But, with me personally, I don't see how they can have the same level of connection as someone in a completely committed relationship. Yes, I've had my share of fun; I won't deny that. But that doesn't mean I'm not looking for that one special man who I can give myself and any love I have in my heart to and receive the same from him. I started looking for him when I was fourteen, and as evil as some of the things guys have done, I don't want to stop until I find him. I want one of those unique loves that lasts a lifetime. And I only want it with one person- whatever his name will be in the future.

[dickriculous]

The reason i find it hard to believe that humans are not naturally monogamous is coz i literally only have eyes for one man. I dont even fantasize about others.. Which indicates at the very least that SOME humans are 100% naturally monogamous.

You're still a baby. Get back to me when you're 50 and tell me that all those years you never fantasized about any other man and only had eyes for the one you're with now.

Ill just add that it is silly to compare humans to wild animals.

You mean like dinosaurs, wolves, and voles?

Those animals may be our closest relatives but they are not half as advances as we are-nor do they have the complex emotions that humans have. They ct purely on survival instinct. The only natural survival instincts humans use now are babies who are born with natural instincts. I shall post a link on this too. When we reach a certain age-we no longer need most if not all of these.

Many of our survival instincts are not needed in modern society because it's modern society. How modern society affects our survival instincts has nothing to do with the inherent nature of our sexual urges and mating habits.


Bottom line: The safest and most logical bet is that there is no such thing as an inherent orientation in humans toward monogamy or polygamy. Without the extensive socialization toward the former who knows what the norm would be or even if there would be any such thing as a norm? We weren't meant to be one or the other, we should be able to just do whichever one we want with no social ramifications getting in the way. And that includes such thoughts as "oh those people are polygamous? Yeah, they obviously don't love each other, those relationships are just for horny bitches who want to get their rocks off and nothing more". Lol....right.

This goes back to what I said in the first post ITT. One relationship type isn't "better" than the other. One shouldn't be the norm over the other. One shouldn't carry an inordinate amount of social baggage vs. the other and the only level headed perspective on one vs. the other is "who cares"?


Edit: To answer your original question as to whether or not I believe in monogamy or polygamy for myself, I believe in both. I could be happy with either type of relationship. In my younger years I would say no, I didn't believe in monogamy - I always felt like something was missing in a monogamous relationship and was always tempted to cheat. At this point in my life I feel like I could go either way just fine.

[HeartIsAching]

I am not asking whether you believe or not that humans are meant to be monogamous/non monogamous.

I am asking your honest opinion on whether you believe in monogamy for yourself personally? Do you choose to be monogamous to keep others happy? Would you rather not be? Are you happy being committed, loyal and faithful? Would you ever agree to an open relationship etc

Honest answers please and give details

Thanks

I didn't always, but I do now.

I am happy being in a committed, loyal relationship. I would never agree to be in an open relationship... I couldn't bear to share her sweetness with anyone else, and unlike you, I believe that sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander as well. I believe that equality means... equal. No special rules for one or the other because of gender. So, I will not, because I know that she will not.

I know you'll dislike and protest this answer. I really don't give a shit.

[TablesandChairs]

Provided two people are happy with their arrangement and no one gets hurt - there is no problem. As weird as it might seem to be personally, I've known people in open relationships and they were very close and very happy; they had certain boundaries in place and it worked for them. It wouldn't for me because I find the idea off-putting but that's my business.

The problem is cheating - a breach of trust. This is a different thing entirely. Cheating is possible even in open relationships - most poly couples have 'rules', it's not just a free or all. Both have to agree on who the other person will be, how often they include them and so forth.

Anyway; I think humans are capable of being either - it's a choice and a preference. Any deviation from the norm is going to be scrutinized (look at homosexuality) but if it works and the people involved are happy with it, it's fine.

It's interesting that most people are quite possessive of their partners (in so far as wanting exclusivity and becoming quite jealous at the thought of them wanting or being with someone else) - this is a pretty universal trait so I'm quite curious as to how poly couples avoid this.