He doesn't wash his hands after taking a $h!t..!

[HeartIsAching]

Men don't really have a clue about health and safety unless they have worked in a deli or kitchen or have studied HACCP

Really? You say this, and wonder why I call you a sexist?

**** you. **** you in the ass with a chainsaw.

[michelle23]

From living and working with men who don't wash thier hands? That doesn't equate to MOST men. That's all he's saying. Its another one of your blanket statements that riles the masses is all.

The sad thing is that its one's mother that usually teaches their son's bathroom habits and if she's not teaching him to wash his hands after a BM.. well, then I guess its up to the women in his life to train him in that simple courtesy to himself and anyone he happens to touch.

Well it wasn't meant as a sexist comment or an insult to any men. Its possible that women are too uptight about washing their hands. I know I am. I wash them too much. A speck of dust aint gonna kill me or a few germs but I have an obsession with having clean hands. And it doesn't warrant being called a "sexist pig". It was an unintentional blanket statement but I meant no offence. HIA is pissing me off a lot lately. I have really made an effort not to use blanket statements and to be careful how I word things but he keeps nitpicking at my posts lately. F**k you HIA

[michelle23]

Really? You say this, and wonder why I call you a sexist?

**** you. **** you in the ass with a chainsaw.

I was trying to stand up for OPS freaking bf by saying that. My own bf doesn't wash his hands half as much as I would like him to but he has a shower every day after work and is clean before we have sex. I was trying to say its not a big deal if he doesn't wash his hands as long as he does before he fingers you. He should be doing that anyway even if he thinks his hands are clean! But now I will be accused of back peddling or whatever. I don't care. F**k you too

[HeartIsAching]

Then you're not making enough of an effort. You use blanket statements liberally...

And you piss me off.

You wanna stop? You want me to stop calling you on your bullshit? Then stop saying "men this" and "men that"

Otherwise, get used to me calling your bullshit for what it is.

[michelle23]

I rarely ever say men this or men that. I don't even know what your on about when you say I am sexist or have double standards. Jeez the last time I said I hate double standards you said "no you have double standards" but then wouldn't explain why you think that. SMH

[HeartIsAching]

You've got double-standards in spades. You just ****ing SAID IT in this thread.

If you can't even reason this out, then I've got nothing meaningful to say to you, because you're simply too stupid.

[searock]

Recognizing it, and perpetuating it are two different things. Continuing to perpetuate it DOESN'T make it better.

I agree. By stating that there is no difference between calling a man a "sexist pig" and a woman a "sexist pig", you are choosing to make pretend that there is no double standard. I appreciate the effort (really I do, in the sense that I understand it) to eliminate all differences, but until we live in a truly equal society, it's actually counter-productive to make pretend that we already do, IMO (I know people in real life who think the opposite, so really I see where you're coming from - I just don't agree with that approach).

You want equality? Guess what, sister - I want it too, for both you and me.

Are you actually implying that men (as opposed to women) are being discriminated in the western world? If not, disregard this question.

I do want equality from a societal point of view, and I already said that I am against silly generalizations, whomever they are aimed at. If you had quoted michelle's statement and commented with "that's a silly generalization, not all men are like that just as not all women are the opposite of that", I wouldn't have said anything. It was just your choice of vocabulary that I found... well, humorous to begin with, a bit concerning later on.

[HeartIsAching]

I really don't give a shit what you like and don't like.

You want to end gender-ism? Stop using it.

Otherwise, **** off.

[searock]

Whoa... no need to get so aggressive o.O.

[HeartIsAching]

Not aggressive - truth.

You can't have it both ways, sister. You want to end sexism, you can't say "men this" and "men that" or "women this" and "Women that" or you've already given in.

Try using less absolute wording. Otherwise, you're just part of the problem.

[searock]

I really don't give a shit what you like and don't like.

I never implied that you should.

You want to end gender-ism? Stop using it.

As I said, it's not that simple IMO. It's the same reason we can't use the n-word without sounding extremely racist and offensive. In a perfect world, it would be perfectly fine to use it, because there would be no racism anywhere. Until there is, it's counter-productive to make pretend it doesn't exist. Same thing goes for patriarchy.

[searock]

You want to end sexism, you can't say "men this" and "men that" or "women this" and "Women that" or you've already given in.

Try using less absolute wording. Otherwise, you're just part of the problem.

I agree, as I have stated several times. This is not the point I'm making. I already said more than once that I think blanket statements and generalizations such as "men this" and "women that" are mostly just silly misconceptions, and they should be corrected. This is not the point - the point is that there is a big difference between calling a man a "sexist pig" and calling a woman a "sexist pig", because of the kind of society we live in, which is a patriarchal one.

[michelle23]

You've got double-standards in spades. You just ****ing SAID IT in this thread.

If you can't even reason this out, then I've got nothing meaningful to say to you, because you're simply too stupid.

No you are uptight and take everything I say as an insult or think there is some deeper meaning behind it. Most the men I know do not wash their hands as much as I do. It would be sexist if I said "all men are pigs" or "all men care about is sex" or "all men are cheats". Do I say or believe any of those stereotypes? NO!

[HeartIsAching]

I never implied that you should.



As I said, it's not that simple IMO. It's the same reason we can't use the n-word without sounding extremely racist and offensive. In a perfect world, it would be perfectly fine to use it, because there would be no racism anywhere. Until there is, it's counter-productive to make pretend it doesn't exist. Same thing goes for patriarchy.

Of course it's not that simple - but you HAVE TO START SOMEWHERE.

Where are you going to start? You going to keep making assertions about men that are factually untrue, and expect that they'll NOT do the same? Or are you going to assert that it's NOT always true and expect that you'll get get the same in return? Quit perpetuating the problem.

I acknowledge the problem exists. I work towards ending it. In my view you and Michelle don't do anything about it... in fact, you actively perpetuate it.

[searock]

You going to keep making assertions about men that are factually untrue, and expect that they'll NOT do the same? Or are you going to assert that it's NOT always true and expect that you'll get get the same in return? Quit perpetuating the problem.

Jeez, for the last time: I think blanket statements are inaccurate pretty much always and they should be corrected.

I acknowledge the problem exists. I work towards ending it.

And as I said, I appreciate the effort, really I do. I just think that making pretend that there is no double standard is counter-productive, and I think that saying that there is no difference between calling a man a "sexist pig" and calling a woman a "sexist pig" is making pretend there is no double standard. I do appreciate that you are just trying to treat men and women equally by calling them with the same epithet. I get what you're trying to do and I appreciate it. I just don't think it's the right way to go, and I think it's actually harmful because it makes it seem like there already is no double standard - which is unfortunately not the case.

Yes, you have to start somewhere. I just don't think this is the right starting point: it will be a welcome consequence of the end of double standards, but we are far from being there yet and until we are, all it does is belittle the problem.