Need advice on issue in 10 year marriage

[Middle_Aged_mom]

I've been in a relationship with my husband for 12 years, and married for 10-1/2. I love him deeply, and I believe he loves me. He tells me he does, and shows it by staying with me although lord knows I've tried his patience. I went through a really bad period of emotional issues, which only in the past few months have I seen very clearly the whole scope of the problem and am now working hard to fix it and regain my real personality, sense of self and improve life in general. The problem is that, except for the first couple of years of our relationship, he is very stoic and doesn't show much affection at all. I completely understand that it's hard to be affectionate when your spouse is depressed. However, that doesn't negate the need for it on my end. I'm not particularly needy when it comes to this; overall in my time with him I've adjusted my expectations to accommodate his natural stoicism and reticence. I do need SOMETHING, though. Recently -- as in a couple of weeks ago -- this just came to a head for me. I've gotten to the point that I just cannot take it anymore. I've begged and pleaded and explained the necessity of some sort of affection from him, and it improves for a couple of days, then goes back to the status quo. Right now I've reached my limit, and am no longer willing to ask for the affection. I've started emotionally distancing myself from him, I suppose in a sort of defense mechanism. I get the affection in bed; our sex life is actually pretty good and spicy. But outside of the bedroom, I definitely get the impression from him, through his actions, that he'd rather do just about anything besides spend time with me. It's certainly not a priority for him. I'm a pretty affectionate person, and my natural tendency is toward little touches, kisses, etc. I'm not expecting anything to this extent from him -- just an occasional overture would be OK. I get compliments, hugs, kisses, etc. from him, seemingly without hesitation, but ONLY if I initiate it. I feel like I just can't be the one to take the initiative 100% percent of the time anymore, though... hence the distancing. I told him outright last night that I'm NOT giving him the "silent treatment' -- I'm trying very hard not to be an immature b*tch about this -- my behavior is only because I just can't be the initiator, the person who gives but only gets in mechanical response, the one asking for SOMETHING, anymore. I feel like I need a 180-degree turnaround from him, but I know that's not very realistic, and would like to see just an effort on his part, and maybe that will be enough for me.... I really don't know -- I'll have to see when I get there. Of course we have other issues overall -- everyone does -- but my point is that I should not have to wait until he's happy with EVERYTHING about me to get some basic needs met. That's unrealistic, too.

Sorry about the TL;DR.

Please tell me -- do I sound like I'm asking too much? I need advice because I'm afraid that my emotional distancing (which I feel like I can't help) may be a slippery slope and lead down a path to breakup, which I don't want, and don't think he does, either. Perhaps he's just not capable of what I need? Please give me your thoughts -- I need to work through this in my own mind, and can't talk to him about it, as I'm afraid he'll see it as drama (which he hates and I understand that), and also because that sort of feels like yet another overture on my part and just feels wrong/awful/futile.

[Valixy]

Maybe he just needs some time and patience from you to get used to your new self and maybe you owe him this.

[Valixy]

Since you've been through such a major positive personal transformation in the last months, your relationship will feel it too definitely, it just needs some time probably.

[Middle_Aged_mom]

I guess I can understand that -- your first reply, I mean. I am pretty angry, though. Perhaps I do "owe" him, but the best comparison of this is (parallels to my situation notwithstanding, just trying to explain) like when you get divorced.... you don't WANT to, but it's necessary and unfortunately what SHOULD happen sometimes doesn't figure in. And the fact is that I've been putting up with this for years, and getting no effort to fix it. I'm not expecting him to change his personality, I'm expecting him to TRY to actively participate in the relationship. I know that maybe I don't have a right to be angry -- I have terribly ambivalent feelings about the situation and how to successfully get through it, but the anger is pretty constant. Up until a few weeks ago I was frustrated, a feeling compounded over the years to some pretty high levels, but I wasn't really angry. I just got completely fed up for some reason and feel like sh*t about myself if I take the role of requestor/initiatior/beggar even one more time

[michelle23]

Have you heard of the 5languages of love? Perhaps you and he should look these up online and both do a quiz. It could be that you both show your love in different ways and speak different love languages. You coulsd also try Dr phils relationship test to figure out which areas you need to focus on to fix your marriage. Theres also loads of books you could read together. Look up ones like "the importance of affection in a relationship" on google. See what you find.

If that doesnt work; you could try marriage counselling. Ts pointless getting angry, pushing him away, allowing resentment to come between you and shutting down emotionally. If you want a divorce then that is the way to go..

Sometimes you do have to give to get. I know itbpisses you off that you initiate most the affection but some people just dont know how to be. Perhaps he grew up in a cold home where hugs and cuddles were rare. Or maybe he is just stuck in a comfy rut or maybe you both drifted apart and both need to work hard to fall head over heels for each other again.

No marriage is perfect. If you see a problem, find a solution. In most marriages, women do the donkey work when it comes to affection and romance. Sometimes men just forget or they dont even realize there is a problem until you start packing your bags. Maybe you should just accept that if you want affection, you have to initiate it. You cant change him

[Middle_Aged_mom]

You may be right. But although I know he loves me, that just isn't enough anymore. Neither of us wants a divorce. We are still in love. I know that I'm wasting energy and perhaps creating trouble by being angry and pulling away, and I'm trying pretty hard to get over it.

As far as accepting that I will get no affection or attention without me initiating it, that's what I've been doing for 10 years or so. My view is that returning a hug is just saying you're willing to be hugged; it isn't really affection.

His whole family is this way. It may be that he can't help it. If that's true, I don't see how this is going to work anymore. I'm going to try.

[Middle_Aged_mom]

I know this just sounds like another wife with a common complaint. I'm not over-dramatizing the issue - it has really become a possible deal-breaker at this point. We're in pretty big trouble, and I don't have a ton of confidence that he can do what's necessary for us to get out. As you said, perhaps he's not able to.

[IslandScorp]

Many men do not understand a woman's need for emotional and non-sexual bonding and affection. Your husband is even more challenged in this area because he comes from a family that has taught him to be this way. But you've known this for 10 years so why is it such a huge issue right now? Is it because of your self-improvement efforts? Do you think or feel that just because you've worked through or are working through your emotional issues that he should suddenly change as well? If he responds after you initiate affection, that's better than if he was failing to respond at all or pushing you away. Perhaps this is the only way he knows how to be affectionate-to wait until it's given to him first. It might be a behavior that is caused by something that happened long ago in his past or childhood which he may or may not even remember. Don't try to force him to change by distancing yourself. To me, that can only lead to more unhappiness. If you really love each other, seek counseling.

[madmaxinlove]

He has gotten so comfortable in the relationship that its to the point he doesn't feel the need to work to be affectionate anymore. Men can get this way in marriage for whatever reason. I know cause I've been there. I was married for almost 10 years and I rarely ever showed much affection to my ex-wife except on special occasions like valentines day and her birthday. But I didn't realize at the time we were married that women need more than that. It didn't mean I didn't love her, I just got too comfortable and thought everything was fine between us. I'm sure he loves you very much otherwise you wouldn't be married for as long as you have been, but if he is not willing to wake up and change his ways about the relationship, then you need to take the first steps to walk away, at least just temporarily separate from him to make your point. In his eyes, its not serious until his wife is suddenly gone.

[michelle23]

Ya I agree, maybe you should move out for a couple of weeks. It worked for my mam. My dad has a drink problem and he was very bad. She left him for two weeks. He has changed his ways-he still drinks but hes not half as bad as he was. You could then suggest marriage counselling to him when he understands that changes need to be made.

[Middle_Aged_mom]

I think the temporary separation idea would backfire on me. I could be wrong, of course. The thing is, along with being very undemonstrative, which is an issue but the BIGGER issue I think is that he gives me no attention ever, and it doesn't seem to occur to him how I might feel about any given thing. He hates talking about issues, and clams up. He's also very, very stubborn (another defining family trait - where he's from everyone knows his family for this), and will not budge an inch if he thinks he's being pushed to do anything. This is to the point that if I left, I think he would MAKE it a permanent thing just because he'll have to "stand his ground" at any cost.

It probably doesn't help that last night I completely lost my %$& about something. He'd been pretty nice to me yesterday, so that was OK, but for the past several days I've been telling him that I need some, uh, "intimate time." I've been very clear about THAT and very clear also that I need attention/affection from him, and this time I'm not going to just give in and let it stay the same like I always have in the past. Anyway, back to my weekend plans.... he agreed, and we had some flirting, innuendos, a little first-base action during the day yesterday, and I was looking forward to the evening after the kids went to bed. So... 9:30 rolls around, and the kids go to bed. I told him I was going upstairs... I waited until 11pm for him, thinking that of course he'd be looking forward to this, too. I mean, he's a normal red-blooded guy, and he expressed his willingness.. So, I wait, thinking that maybe he had to do something for work, and that he'd be up any minute. I read to pass the time. So when 11pm rolls around, I go downstairs to find out what the heck happened, feeling VERY hurt and disappointed and frustrated that he'd stood me up when he knew how important the issue was in general. I find him on the couch, watching TV... laying down with a blanket over him, fallen asleep. I wake him up and ask him what happened. First, he groggily tells me that he "thought it was better this way." Then after he wakes up, he basically says he was busy watching TV and accidentally fell asleep (something he clearly DECIDED was an OK idea or else he wouldn't have gotten up, gotten a blanket, then laid down), and What was the big deal, anyway?

I tried to explain that it had been important to me, that I'd told him so, that I'd been practically begging all weekend, and that the fact that it wasn't even a priority enough for him to even THINK about coming upstairs was pretty hurtful, whether he'd fallen asleep by accident or no. Except I lost my temper, which I NEVER EVER do, and wound up screaming at him and slamming doors and stuff. Yes, I acted like a spoiled brat. I've admitted that and apologized my butt off. Won't happen again, I'm embarrassed as hell. But that doesn't negate the fact that he completely disregarded my feelings yet again.

[Valixy]

I guess I can understand that -- your first reply, I mean. I am pretty angry, though. Perhaps I do "owe" him, but the best comparison of this is (parallels to my situation notwithstanding, just trying to explain) like when you get divorced.... you don't WANT to, but it's necessary and unfortunately what SHOULD happen sometimes doesn't figure in. And the fact is that I've been putting up with this for years, and getting no effort to fix it. I'm not expecting him to change his personality, I'm expecting him to TRY to actively participate in the relationship. I know that maybe I don't have a right to be angry -- I have terribly ambivalent feelings about the situation and how to successfully get through it, but the anger is pretty constant. Up until a few weeks ago I was frustrated, a feeling compounded over the years to some pretty high levels, but I wasn't really angry. I just got completely fed up for some reason and feel like sh*t about myself if I take the role of requestor/initiatior/beggar even one more time

Sorry about the quick incomplete reply. I'm still not sure I understand your situation very well but I will give it another try.

If you suffered from depression for many years it's possible that you also created this relationship dynamics and isolated him and maybe he just tried to adjust the best he could to the distance that you consciously or unconsciously needed/provoked. Or maybe his personality is like this, as you said, and settled in like in many other cases after the first two years of marriage. Thing is, he didn't give up on you when you were dealing with your emotional problems and I think that you should also give him time and be patient with him if you would like him to overcome some personal emotional barriers and your relationship to change.

He deserves this and you both do, because you've been married for so long, have children and a life together, love each other and tick many of each other's boxes. This is not easy to find out there and while you could meet someone more affectionate at the beginning of the relationship at least, but not forever (it tends to happen unfortunately), I don't think it would necessarily be a good match for you in the long run and loneliness after so many years of companionship is not always a very enjoyable alternative either.

Just because he is becoming aware of your new emotional needs it doesn't mean that he can change as quickly as you would like him to, but just because it might take him time, it doesn't mean that he won't improve and you should be able to understand this based on your personal experience. You have the best intentions for your marriage and no doubt he appreciates you for this and will make the effort to meet you half way. Maybe couple counselling could guide you both through this new adventure.

[IndiReloaded]

If you suffered from depression for many years it's possible that you also created this relationship dynamics and isolated him and maybe he just tried to adjust the best he could to the distance that you consciously or unconsciously needed/provoked.

Thing is, he didn't give up on you when you were dealing with your emotional problems and I think that you should also give him time and be patient with him if you would like him to overcome some personal emotional barriers and your relationship to change.

This^. Love in a relationship waxes and wanes. What you need is to communicate your needs to him and vice-versa.

When neither of you are willing to work on your marriage enough to meet each others' needs THAT is when you should end your marriage. Otherwise, he sounds like a decent man who loves you and that is not something to be thrown away lightly.

Good luck to you both.

[Middle_Aged_mom]

He refuses counseling. His upbringing taught him that it's a coward's way out. He thinks they're quacks and that it won't do us any good; just waste money when we should fix it ourselves.

Your words ring true, and this seems like a pretty sensible approach. Very difficult for me? Yes, but my marriage is the 2nd most important thing to me, next to my kids, and worth working on even if I don't think it'll work. I'd feel horrible if I didn't try beyond what I think I can.

I've built a wall. I was going to say it went up quickly, but the fact is that the foundations have been there for a long time. Has he stayed with me despite my problems? Yes. Has he done anything to help me through them? No. But really, I don't THINK I'm upset about that. I know he did what he is able to do, which is actually a lot. But making excursions over the wall is scary and just difficult to do. I mean, just hard to make myself say the words. I suppose it's resentment that makes it so. I feel, strongly, that a spouse deserves to feel at least a little bit like their partner wants to be around them, even just once in a while, and everyone needs affection, I think. Maybe I'm wrong about that. Not a lot of affection, but some. Expecting to be happy with every single thing about him/her before you make an effort is kinda cruel and definitely unreasonable. No marriage is ever like that. Not long-term ones.

Someone said I need to be the giver, not the taker. I accept and overlook quite a lot with him. He's no picnic basket full of roses to live with, and he acknowledges that. However, I love him unconditionally despite that and always will. I've said to a friend before that he's the love of my life, and it sounded corny as hell coming out of my mouth, but it's in fact true.

You said I'd be lonely after so many years of companionship. There is no companionship. I live in the same house with him and I get sex. And a commitment that I'll always have someone to live with and sex. I really, really wish that was enough. I can work on trying to just accept it, but after 10 years I guess I'm not very confident that it'll somehow be enough now even though I've tried pretty hard for a long time already, and gotten no changes that last beyond maybe a week.

He does tick off a lot of boxes. He's a great dad, he works hard, we are attracted to each other (I think), he's committed, not controlling, open-minded, never malicious, and goes out of his way to help people if they need it. He's also patient, gentle, responsible, adventurous at times, and pretty easygoing except with this stuff. Reducing him to a list of characteristics seems wrong, though.

I'm not trying to concentrate on the negative. I'm trying to safeguard myself in case I'm unsuccessful yet again.

[IndiReloaded]

You are simply lining up your reasons to end it. So end it; pull the band-aid off quick.

Before you do, tho, realize the 10 year mark is commonly the 'crisis time' for marriages. Read my post on Stages Of Marriage in the stickies.

btw - a lot of men won't go to counselling. Just not their thing. Another good read for you is Secrets of Happily Married Men, which explains things from a male POV.

Good luck.

PS - fwiw you won't find a lot of long-term married folks here who will give objective marriage advice. I suggest talkaboutmarriage.com.