Problems with my new wife... Please need an opinion... Long Story.

[lomfs24]

A little background on me. First off I don't want to paint myself as a saint, cause I am not. I was married to my first wife at 24 y/o. Had a 16 year marriage and was divorced at 40. Had two kids in the process and several affairs, one of which lasted several years. This marriage went bad pretty early on and I didn't want to get out of it because of the kids. After I got divorced I got remarried to a wonderful woman that I felt connected to at nearly every level. I love her to death.

Little info on my current wife. She was in an 8 year relationship that was abusive and was scared to get out. Towards the end of that relationship she started to become carefree and cut loose a little. During that time she developed friendships with several guys, some of which she slept with and some of which the opportunity did not come up but would have had it come up. Then I came along.

Early on in our relationship she was texting several guys. Some of which she was reluctant to tell that she had a BF. One by one, as they found out began to drift out of her life. There are a couple who did not. One of these guys I don't have a problem with. I think he is a respectable guy who would not do anything. She doesn't see him hardly at all but keeps in contact with text messages. These text messages are simply two friends talking.
Another one of these guys is not respectable. He is known locally for being the local man-whore and has a rep of sleeping with married women. I believe this is because he doesn't want to make a commitment to anyone and so it's easier to sleep with married women and kick them to the curb when he is tired of them. My current wife did have an affair with him prior to us getting together. And still texts him often, I don't know what most of these texts are about. But nearly everytime I have seen a text there is something sexual in context about it. She asked him what he likes in bed. There is some light flirting going on and certainly not text messages that you would expect to see between platonic friends. Recently, I saw a series of emails to a friend of hers, who also has been through a couple marriages cause she can't seem to stay at home, and in these emails she says she quit talking to this guy because I made her. Like it was a big accomplishment, and burden. Then a few emails later she asks if it's bad that she wants to still have sex with him. And of course, her friend says "No, that's completely normal."

We had a discussion/fight about that and she said that she isn't talking to him anymore. Since that time I have glanced at her phone occasionally and often there are text messages that are there but disappear quickly like she deleted them and closed her phone before they had a chance to finish deleting. Of course, she denies texting him.

I agreed that I needed to see someone about my insecurities with the whole situation. She went with me and while I was in talking to the therapist about my insecurities of her talking to other men, what do you suppose she is doing? She is in the lobby waiting for me texting another guy. The started about noon and at 8:30 that night she is still texting him, pretty much non-stop all afternoon. The only time she had a break from texting him was while we were shopping and her phone was in the car.

Also, that same day, later on, she began texting another guy that she had a longer fling with prior to meeting me. Again, I don't think anything would come of that...but, it makes you wonder why she can't see that bothers me and at least give it a break for a bit while I try to work through my own issues.

I told her that she was not very supportive of my insecurities and that perhaps she was the one with a problem and that it was that she constantly needed approval from another guy.

I go to the therapist again next Tuesday but I just wanted to see what other people thought about this situation and if I am over reacting, what I might need to talk to the therapist about, and if you think that perhaps she needs some guidance as well?

[Valixy]

Would it be possible for both of you to do therapy together? It seems that she needs to learn to respect her husband and his feelings. It might be the only way for you to get over your insecurities since they are so well founded. Or you could find someone else who would concentrate on the relationship as it should and then you wouldn't be such an insecure guy, for sure.

If she is unwilling to work on this relationship with you, I think that you should give her an ultimatum and stick to it. She either cuts off completely any kind of contact with that guy, or you leave her. You'd be a happier man on your own than with someone you love but you can't trust while she isn't doing anything to help.

[searock]

She is cheating on you - emotionally, if not yet physically. Sorry. I would never put up with any of that.

It seems to me like she doesn't even care about your marriage anymore, she doesn't care about making it work.

[lomfs24]

Would it be possible for both of you to do therapy together? It seems that she needs to learn to respect her husband and his feelings. It might be the only way for you to get over your insecurities since they are so well founded. Or you could find someone else who would concentrate on the relationship as it should and then you wouldn't be such an insecure guy, for sure.

If she is unwilling to work on this relationship with you, I think that you should give her an ultimatum and stick to it. She either cuts completely any kind of contact with that guy, or you leave her. You'd be a happier man on your own than with someone you love but you can't trust while she isn't doing anything to help.

She said that she would be willing to do couples therapy. But she thought that the first few times I went they would probably only want to talk to me. We'll see how it goes. You say that I would be a happier on my own. The other day when we had that discussion/fight I figured that it would either push her away or we would grow stronger, I was prepared for either outcome. I still am. I can't take this being on edge constantly. I know that I have some insecurities, but I think that if she truly cares she would be willing to take a break from it until I was more secure in our relationship.

[lomfs24]

She is cheating on you - emotionally, if not yet physically. Sorry. I would never put up with any of that.

It seems to me like she doesn't even care about your marriage anymore, she doesn't care about making it work.

I understand where you are coming from when you say she is cheating emotionally. Physically? I have always thought the toughest part about cheating is making the decision to. The rest is all logistics, time and place. And with the email that says "Is it bad that I still want to have sex with him?" the decision has already been made, now it's time and place, logistics. I am losing sleep over it. I feel I would be more relaxed on my own.

[Wakeup]

This marriage went bad pretty early on and I didn't want to get out of it because of the kids. After I got divorced

Were the kids okay with it once they were older? O.o Never believed in sticking in a piss poor coupledom just for the kids so I'm curious to see how well they handled it when they were older (and how much older they were when you finally got some common sense and left someone you didn't love).

She was in an 8 year relationship that was abusive and was scared to get out.

So, here we have two codependents eventually meeting up (just getting everything straight in my head).

He is known locally for being the local man-whore and has a rep of sleeping with married women.

So he's very much like you. I can see why you are worried.

and if you think that perhaps she needs some guidance as well?

Ya think?

My question is since you are so not monogamous, nor is she, why either of you are expecting the other to be without someone else? Talk to your therapist about that.... how to be upfront and open about your penchant for more then one. do this together with your wife who is very compatible with you in the sense that she too would like to **** other people besides you, so that you can learn to live with her as your primary partner while the two of you screw others on the side. Be sure you're on the up and up that you're married and looking to supplement to all your second, thirds, fourths so they go in with informed consent ... you get the idea.

[lomfs24]

Thanks for the reply Wakeup. I'll address these one at a time. I was a little taken aback by your upfront style. But after sitting here thinking about it for a while I appreciate it.

1. In retrospect, the kids may have taken it better when they were younger. When I finally left they were 10 and 12. When I should have left they were 1 and 3. There is no way to tell whether they are taking it better now or if they would have taken it better back then. I think they are old enough now to see what's going on. That's not something I have thought about because it's not something I can change now.

2. Two codependants? Yeah, you're probably not far off.

3. I have actually said that he is very much like me, or like I was. I have been pretty up front about that with her. But I see how he operates and I know the game. I have even acknowledged that she really has every reason in the world to distrust me. She says she doesn't, and I envy that in her. I wish I could blindly trust that way.

I was not monogamous, I won't deny that. I have no excuses for that either. The reason I was not monogamous was that as things deteriorated and the attention just wasn't there. Like Ron White says "I'm a pretty good dog but it's hard to keep me under the porch if you don't pet me once in a while." I know that doesn't make it right. I know that does not justify me in anyway. And it's certainly not an excuse. I was up front with my therapist about me having past affairs. With the question of with my checkered past is that why I am having a difficult time trusting now? With my new wife though, I have no desire for other women. I have quit talking to all the women of my past just so my wife doesn't have a question in her mind about me cheating on her now.

With my ex-wife I would have been very open to the idea of an open relationship where we both screwed around. Because I didn't love her. I couldn't do that now with my wife, I love her too much. Almost to the point of being an obsession. Which in another thing that I talked to the therapist about. And quite frankly, I can't take the stress and drama of having an affair. It's just not in me.

[michelle23]

It looks like you married you. Maybe now you know what it was like living in hell for your ex wife. Can you see now that leaving would have been a far better option when your children were young than them growing up knowing how badly you treated their mother? My granddad cheated on my Grandmother throughout their marriage and eventually left her for someone else. Hes dead now-he died when I was 8 but that is all we remember of him-that he was a disloyal bastard who drove my poor nana to have a nervous breakdown. His kids and grand kids hate him and nobody shed a tear at his funeral. I'm not saying this to hurt you. I'm just trying to say that all of that could have been prevented if he just left her years before. He could have tried to be a good dad without being her husband and we would all have more respect for him.

Cheating should never be an option. Ya I get it-you were miserable with a woman that you didnt love but you could have gotten couples counselling or you could have left if she was unwilling to try. The affairs were just an escape from reality but no matter how bad your ex wife was-your the one that will always look like the bad guy for cheating. I hope you have learned your lesson and will never go this route again if your new marriage hits a few bumps in the road.

Anyway if you want any chance of this marriage to work then you both need to get therapy so you can learn the importance of honesty and trust in a relationship. If neither of you can keep your hands to yourself then maybe you could consider an open marriage. Its not ideal and I wouldn't go that route but it certainly beats lying and sneaking around.

I just read your last post and it looks like that is not an option for you. If you cannot trust your new wife, then maybe its time to consider divorce number too unless she agrees to get therapy and works really hard to change.

[lomfs24]

OK, folks, I think we may be missing the point of the thread here.
I should have left earlier.... Got it! Thanks!
I'm a piece of shit..... Got it! Thanks!
But these are things I can't change. I can't go back and leave earlier, I can't go back and not have affairs. Because, in the real world, time travel has not been invented yet. Believe me, if I could, I would. So let's move on......Thanks!
I came here to get advice on how to improve myself, how to improve my relationship with my wife. How to make me a better person. I don't give a **** about cute little anecdotes about your grandfather. If you are having problems coming to terms with that, perhaps you should open a new thread.

If you have advice to help me better myself, I am all ears. I'll even take some harsh reality checks. But I can't go back and change the past. Only move forward and make myself better from here on out for my new wife.

[Wakeup]

I told her that she was not very supportive of my insecurities and that perhaps she was the one with a problem and that it was that she constantly needed approval from another guy.

What was her response to that?

You do realize that that is how she is getting her self-esteem, right? She's come out of an abusive relationship and I'm not sure how soon after that you two hooked up, but its becoming clear that perhaps you were a rebound. Perhaps You were her bandaid and now that she thinks (thinks only, as sub-consciously she has no self-worth, actually) she's all that and the bees knees from getting all this attention, and, the fact she knows you're a mess without her and wouldn't leave her makes you an enabler and her a future (if not already) cheater. I'm not sure if her emotions are into this guy, I think her ego is in 1000% though. Insecurity and lack of self-worth gleened from goals met and accomplishes made, plus lack of self-worth, is what causes someone to stray... Its just a bandaid fix for what inherently ails the cheater.

It's up to you to tell her with conviction that you will be leaving the union if she isn't in it enough to give up the attention of other men, pieces (emotionally or physically) on the side. You first have to have enough of your own self-love to be able to do that and know that you'll be fine in time once out of there.

Seems at this point, You are now feeling totally out of control because she isn't doing what you tell her to do which is to stop flirting and getting off on the attention of other men so you find yourself feeling out of controll and anxiety ridden. I think you need to address your codependency with your therapist so that you get your self-worth/esteem/respect back enough to have the courage to leave someone who really doesn't have much invested in your happiness. Once you come to terms with the fact you're better off alone then with someone who you don't trust and who doesn't give a fig about how she causes you angst, well then your troubles will be over.

But I see how he operates and I know the game.

You (and he) can know the game inside and out, makes no nevermind. The fact your wife entertains his bullshit is the issue. It's HER that should be shutting him down and she isn't. If she wasn't issued and codependent and didn't need to get her self-worth from the attention from men (like yourself in the day) She'd not give another man the time of day. That's all the information you need to move on if she doesn't have the decency to respect her marriage and the vows within it. Seems she married you too quickly, before she regained the self love her abusive ex stripped away.

[michelle23]

If you have advice to help me better myself, I am all ears. I'll even take some harsh reality checks. But I can't go back and change the past. Only move forward and make myself better from here on out for my new wife.

There is no need to get so defensive. I was just giving an example. And I did give some suggestions. Therapy

[HeartIsAching]

Yet another poster that wants his opinions validated and not honest evaluations. Pass.

[lomfs24]

There is no need to get so defensive. I was just giving an example. And I did give some suggestions. Therapy

I am sorry, it just hit me wrong. I know that I have screwed up in the past. I am starting to go to Therapy. Tuesday is my first day. What I am really needing is to have an idea of what I need to address in therapy.

Again, I apologize.

[lomfs24]

What was her response to that?

She didn't answer me at all.

You do realize that that is how she is getting her self-esteem, right? She's come out of an abusive relationship and I'm not sure how soon after that you two hooked up, but its becoming clear that perhaps you were a rebound. Perhaps You were her bandaid and now that she thinks (thinks only, as sub-consciously she has no self-worth, actually) she's all that and the bees knees from getting all this attention, and, the fact she knows you're a mess without her and wouldn't leave her makes you an enabler and her a future (if not already) cheater. I'm not sure if her emotions are into this guy, I think her ego is in 1000% though. Insecurity and lack of self-worth gleened from goals met and accomplishes made, plus lack of self-worth, is what causes someone to stray... Its just a bandaid fix for what inherently ails the cheater.

Again, I think you hit the nail right on the head. I am afraid that I was a re-bound. And I am afraid we got married too soon. I don't want to blame things but one of the reasons we got married as soon as we did was that her parents are pretty religious and she is extremely self conscious about what other people, parents included, think of her. She was afraid of what her parents would think if she was staying with me a lot without being married. Some of the things you say about her is almost like you already know her. She is constantly making comments about how she looks, taking pictures of herself, things that would indicate to me that she is grasping for ego boosts. I can't prove that she is sending those pictures to other guys, but it wouldn't surprise me. Of course, she says she isn't. I have never thought of myself as an enabler, but I definitely see what you are saying. I am a mess without her. And by mess, I mean that I am constantly thinking about her, worried about what she is doing, etc... But then I stop and think how much more relaxing it would be if I didn't have to worry about that. Like if she was out of my life. Personality wise, whether it be a fault or not, I have the ability to turn off love like a light. When we had one of our discussions I told her that and told her how close I was to making that switch.

As far as the ego boost... again, you are 100% right. In fact, she has said several times that it was an ego boost to know how easy it was to get this guy in the sack before. How she had turned that into being easy to go to the bar and pick up a one night stand. And how that was an ego boost.

It's up to you to tell her with conviction that you will be leaving the union if she isn't in it enough to give up the attention of other men, pieces (emotionally or physically) on the side. You first have to have enough of your own self-love to be able to do that and know that you'll be fine in time once out of there.

This is what I need to work on with the therapist. I feel that I have self love, but obviously, not enough. I care about other people too much. I care about hurting her feelings. To the point that I am the one suffering. Which, see your point above, makes me the enabler... doesn't it?

Seems at this point, You are now feeling totally out of control because she isn't doing what you tell her to do which is to stop flirting and getting off on the attention of other men so you find yourself feeling out of controll and anxiety ridden.

BINGO!!!

I think you need to address your codependency with your therapist so that you get your self-worth/esteem/respect back enough to have the courage to leave someone who really doesn't have much invested in your happiness. Once you come to terms with the fact you're better off alone then with someone who you don't trust and who doesn't give a fig about how she causes you angst, well then your troubles will be over.

OK, this is what I need! Things that I need to talk to my therapist about. I do not deny that I have problems. It's just that when I went to my initial meeting they asked me what my goals were and what I wanted to get out of the therapy. I didn't know. I didn't know what I needed to work on.

You (and he) can know the game inside and out, makes no nevermind. The fact your wife entertains his bullshit is the issue. It's HER that should be shutting him down and she isn't. If she wasn't issued and codependent and didn't need to get her self-worth from the attention from men (like yourself in the day) She'd not give another man the time of day. That's all the information you need to move on if she doesn't have the decency to respect her marriage and the vows within it. Seems she married you too quickly, before she regained the self love her abusive ex stripped away.

Thank you!!! I am literally almost in tears as I type this. This is not what I wanted to hear... not at all.... but it's what I need to hear. Again, I'm not saying that I don't have problems of my own. Insecurities, trust issues, rough and rowdy past, etc... But even now when she tells me that she is not talking to other guys, I am having a tough time trusting. Especially, when while I was in talking to the therapist about this in my initial meeting, she was in the waiting room talking to another guy. Again, don't have a problem with her talking to other guys, but when it goes on all day... or days on end, It kind of makes you wonder what the issue is. I have women friends that I talk to via text message. But it's a handful of messages for a few minutes talking about work schedules, cameras (I am a hobbiest photographer, nature landscape, that sort of thing). I don't have conversations that are hours long about nothing.

Which brings up the next item. My phone is completely open to her at anytime. EVER! I leave it laying around and if she grabs it and looks at it, I don't say a word, cause I have nothing to hide. If she leaves her phone laying around, which is rarely, and I touch it, move it or look at it, she doesn't say I can't, but she becomes very defensive, and immediately looks at it to see what I looked at. It's like her phone is hallowed ground that can't be invaded. When I told her that I saw the emails that said she wanted to have sex with him again, she didn't feel regret for saying it or having those feelings, the emotion she portrayed was one of anger for 1) me looking through her stuff, and 2) having her privacy invaded. I told her that since we were married I wanted us to be so close to each other and our lives that privacy was not only non-existant but not needed because we would have nothing to hide from each other. Now, I understand that she might have friends and have private conversations that I don't need to know, I understand that, like if her friend is going through a tough time and needs help or advise that she doesn't want everyone to know. I understand. But when it's discussions about cheating, I think that crosses the line.

[searock]

I understand where you are coming from when you say she is cheating emotionally. Physically? I have always thought the toughest part about cheating is making the decision to. The rest is all logistics, time and place. And with the email that says "Is it bad that I still want to have sex with him?" the decision has already been made, now it's time and place, logistics. I am losing sleep over it. I feel I would be more relaxed on my own.

So, be on your own. No one is forcing you to stay married to her.