Becoming angrier and angrier

[Indestructible]

As a guy who's never even been able to get a "first date", I've gone through many emotions, typically ranging from sad, to angry, back to sad, back to angry, etc. I tried to be "positive" and "optimistic" for a number of years, and I've gotten to a point where I can't do it anymore. Why should I be "positive" and "optimistic"?

People have told me that I "lack confidence", and I'll admit, I've been through times where I had some serious self-confidence issues. But the truth is, I know I'm a good person, I know I deserve to be happy, I know I deserve to find someone that I can have a great relationship with. But evidently, none of that matters.

I've watched as guys who are immature, unintelligent, and/ or "ugly" date and get women just fine. I've watched as guys with "bad attitudes" have no problem getting women. The more I see this, and the more I continue to fail to even find one girl to date, the angrier I get.

I just don't understand. Why not me? Why can't I be "that" guy? What is so wrong with me that I'm just not worth it? What is it about me that makes me "undateable"? Why can guys that have less to offer do better in this area than I can?

I hate the fact that I'm going to live the rest of my life never knowing what it's like to be with another person. It makes me angry to know that I'll never get to experience that. It makes me angry that I'll never get to experience mutual attraction, mutual love.

It makes me angry that IF I every manage to date, my only option will be to take whatever I can get and settle for someone I don't really feel anything for. That's not what I want at all, but that's the only option I have at this point.

And for what reason? Who knows? But I'm sick of the way this stuff works. I understand the whole "Life isn't easy" schtick, but I've been of dating age for roughly ten years now, and I haven't had one girlfriend, haven't been on anything even remotely resembling a date. It makes me angry that idiots and jerks guys with bad intentions see all the success in the world, but a guy like me just isn't "good enough".

All of this just makes me angrier and angrier. I can't even be sad about it anymore, I'm just angry. What am I supposed to do with this?

[IndiReloaded]

Don't give up. It took my partner & I 40 years to find each other.

Take a break from it. Focus on work and hobbies. Develop your interests, which will make you an interesting person.

One thing is for certain, your mate is out there, but she won't be attracted by your defeatist, negative attitude.

[polemikos]

I don't mean to make this sound degrading or demeaning but dating, for men, is a lot like fishing. The better your lure is, the more likely you are to catch the best fish. That said however, even a guy who fishes with the worst lure in the world will catch a fish from time to time if they show enough persistence. I fisherman does not give up if he doesn't catch a fish on his first cast, in fact they rarely do, what a fisherman does is cast again and again and again... And no fisherman every catches them all. You should take a lesson from that.

And one thing is for sure, you will NEVER catch a fish, if you don't cast your line. In other words, you have to get out there and try. Ask women out. I find it hard to believe that you've been asking women out for 10 years and not had a single taker. If that is true you've been doing something horribly wrong. Either you have really bad hygiene or you're aiming for the stars or you just haven't learned how to do it.

Most men that I've known that are in your situation are shy with low self-esteem because they have asked women out in the past, but only after a huge build up in their minds and having misread the signals in the first place. They were crushing hard on the object of their affection and then got turned down. This wounded them deeply, so deeply that they retreated into their little shells and stayed there for years. Then later they just hoped and prayed that one of the little fishies would just jump into their boat. I honestly understand the impulse to want to stay safe at home, but it's not going to get the job done if you want to meet someone.

Make sure you're well groomed and have good hygiene. Then you're first step would be to learn to flirt. Strike up a conversation and LISTEN to what they say and nod so they know you are listening. Maintain good strong eye contract and SMILE. You should also pay her a complement. The sooner the better. Make it something nonthreatening such as their shoes or hair or eyes. If this makes them uncomfortable, move on. If not, ask them what they are drinking, and if they'd like another, or ask them about their hobbies or anything to keep the conversation going. It really is that easy. If she shuts you down, no biggie, move on. You're not trying to get into their pants, just a phone number for a potential date. If it goes well tell her how much to enjoyed talking with her and tell her that you'd love to talk to her again sometime. The same program works (with the obvious exception of the buying of drinks) no matter where you are. But you have to talk to women, and you have to make sure they understand what you're trying to accomplish. You want to get to know them, and you're flirting. You don't want to get relegated to the dreaded “friend zone”. You want a date because you've been single for 10 years, and your arms tired. ;-)

[basilandthyme]

I've watched as guys who are immature, unintelligent, and/ or "ugly" date and get women just fine. I've watched as guys with "bad attitudes" have no problem getting women. The more I see this, and the more I continue to fail to even find one girl to date, the angrier I get.

I just don't understand. Why not me? Why can't I be "that" guy? What is so wrong with me that I'm just not worth it? What is it about me that makes me "undateable"? Why can guys that have less to offer do better in this area than I can?

If we remember your previous posts, there are a number of reasons you're not THAT guy.

1. your unwillingness to learn small talk. (just stop with the excuses and buy some books - or even better, do a course)
2. your need to know a girl before you get out on a date with her. (the dating process is how you get to know a girl. If you don't like her, then move on)
3. (I could be wrong here) are you the poster who avoids social situations and wants a girl who does the same???

The reasons you're not getting the girls are obvious. The real question is: what practical measures will you take to address the causes?

Edited to add: you're actually in a very fortunate position. There are many posters who can't figure out why they can't get a date and we can't guess either. But you? You know where it's going wrong and are therefore in a position to address the problems.

[Indestructible]

I don't mean to make this sound degrading or demeaning but dating, for men, is a lot like fishing. The better your lure is, the more likely you are to catch the best fish. That said however, even a guy who fishes with the worst lure in the world will catch a fish from time to time if they show enough persistence. I fisherman does not give up if he doesn't catch a fish on his first cast, in fact they rarely do, what a fisherman does is cast again and again and again... And no fisherman every catches them all. You should take a lesson from that.

See, that's where I'm concerned. Even if it doesn't last, I'd like for once in my life to experience a relationship that's based on mutual attraction. But that doesn't seem to be likely for me, and I feel like my only option will be to take whoever I can get and just stick it out with them. That's pretty much what everyone else in my family ended up doing, settling down with someone they don't really feel anything for, and they're all miserable. Every single one of them. I don't want to end up like them, but it would seem I'm doomed to share that same fate.

I hate that that's what dating seems to be, a "crapshoot". I don't want to just take whatever I can get, I want to find a girl I genuinely like, who likes me, too.

And one thing is for sure, you will NEVER catch a fish, if you don't cast your line. In other words, you have to get out there and try. Ask women out. I find it hard to believe that you've been asking women out for 10 years and not had a single taker. If that is true you've been doing something horribly wrong. Either you have really bad hygiene or you're aiming for the stars or you just haven't learned how to do it.

Well, I'll admit, I haven't been ACTIVELY looking for ten years straight, but I've still been keeping an eye out this entire time. There have only been a tiny amount of girls I was actually attracted to (and I'd say only the first girl I ever actually liked was a case of me "aiming for the stars"), but I've sporadically attempted online dating over the last several years, and saw no success. In the last twelve months, I buckled down really hard on online dating, and I've attempted to contact over 100 women. Most never responded at all, some messaged me back and forth a little but dropped off, and a few entertained the idea of meeting up with me but ultimately backed out at the last second.

If we remember your previous posts, there are a number of reasons you're not THAT guy.

1. your unwillingness to learn small talk. (just stop with the excuses and buy some books - or even better, do a course)

It's less of an "unwillingness" and more that it just never sinks in with me. I've been trying to learn/ do better at this, but it's still a big challenge for me.

2. your need to know a girl before you get out on a date with her. (the dating process is how you get to know a girl. If you don't like her, then move on)

This is a bit exaggerated. I don't need to know a girl's entire life story or anything like that. All I really want to know about a girl is what her personality is like and how well we get along, and that's not necessarily something I can discern in a few minutes of meeting a new girl to ask her out right then and there. It just takes a little more time to figure that kind of thing out. Honestly, between going to class, going to work, and interning on the side, my time is becoming more limited than ever; so if I'm going to go on a date, I don't want to waste my time with someone that I don't know enough about to get along with well (and really, if I'm not into her, chances are, I'm wasting her time, too).

3. (I could be wrong here) are you the poster who avoids social situations and wants a girl who does the same???

Eh? I don't recall saying anything like that. I don't avoid social situations, but I admit, I don't have an active social life. I try to make friends and build a social circle and have things to do, and whatnot, but I haven't had much success with that either. But I don't "avoid" anything; if someone invites me out, I'm there, no questions asked. I don't remember ever saying I wanted a girl that avoids social situations; if anything, I'd say that I want a girl that's social but is okay with spending a night in every now and then rather than having to constantly go out.

[polemikos]

See, that's where I'm concerned. Even if it doesn't last, I'd like for once in my life to experience a relationship that's based on mutual attraction. But that doesn't seem to be likely for me, and I feel like my only option will be to take whoever I can get and just stick it out with them. That's pretty much what everyone else in my family ended up doing, settling down with someone they don't really feel anything for, and they're all miserable. Every single one of them. I don't want to end up like them, but it would seem I'm doomed to share that same fate.

I hate that that's what dating seems to be, a "crapshoot". I don't want to just take whatever I can get, I want to find a girl I genuinely like, who likes me, too.

OK, well nobody says you have to “settle” at all. Here is the thing, if you have never dated, then you need the experience, otherwise you will be a sad novice the first time you meet and date “Miss. Right” and end up hosing it due to you're utter lack of basic dating experience. Get out there and date. You can't possibly know if she is Miss. Right until you've gotten to know her. That is not the sort of thing you can judge from afar. Again, get out there and date, you need the experience, nobody said you have to marry the first person you go out on a date with. Besides, I really don't think that's going to be a problem.

Well, I'll admit, I haven't been ACTIVELY looking for ten years straight, but I've still been keeping an eye out this entire time. There have only been a tiny amount of girls I was actually attracted to (and I'd say only the first girl I ever actually liked was a case of me "aiming for the stars"), but I've sporadically attempted online dating over the last several years, and saw no success. In the last twelve months, I buckled down really hard on online dating, and I've attempted to contact over 100 women. Most never responded at all, some messaged me back and forth a little but dropped off, and a few entertained the idea of meeting up with me but ultimately backed out at the last second.

OK, so you talk about not settling but then you talk about spending the last several years buckling down with online dating – again strangers, I don't see the difference. I don't really understand how online dating is any different than striking up a cold conversation with a stranger aside from when you do it online you have a profile you can look at first and when you do it online, if you get rejected, it's a passive rejection, ie. they just don't respond. Flesh and blood are a lot more reliable, they send physical signals that are easy to read. And they don't have the luxury of simply not responding, but you don't get the safety net of a passive rejection either. If you are serious about dating, go with the live, analog version.

[4 ratties]

Are U asking girls out on dates and they are saying no? Or are you simply Layin around whining that no girl is running to you to ask u for a date?

[HeartIsAching]

Don't give up. It took my partner & I 40 years to find each other.

Take a break from it. Focus on work and hobbies. Develop your interests, which will make you an interesting person.

One thing is for certain, your mate is out there, but she won't be attracted by your defeatist, negative attitude.

I'll echo this. I met my wife 22 years ago. Knew the day I met her that she was the one for me... and that I couldn't have her. Married her 2+ years ago.

patience, grasshopper.

Believe me... it would've been better to have been patient, met her, wooed her, proposed to her and been married to her for decades by now, rather than to have been through the multiple failed relationships and marriages that I have.

On the other hand... without having BEEN through those relationships, I wouldn't have gone through the changes that were necessary (and neither would she) for us to HAVE our successful, wonderful, fulfilling relationship.

So, I guess what I'm really saying here, is that The Universe (or God, if you prefer) takes a hand. Gives you the chance to grow and learn what you need to, setting what you need in front of you. Maybe what you need right now is time to re-assess.

The other thing to keep in mind, is that life is a journey, true love is a goal - not a destination. I've gotten to that goal, but the journey continues. Your attitude is paramount - stay positive. It will come.

Be.

Be happy.

Work.

WORK for happiness.

[Indestructible]

Again, get out there and date, you need the experience, nobody said you have to marry the first person you go out on a date with. Besides, I really don't think that's going to be a problem.

Yes, but I'm pretty loyal and prone to falling into habitual behavior; in other words, if I go on a date or two with a girl, and I'm not really feeling it, but she seems to want to keep seeing me, I'll just roll with it. It wouldn't matter to me if I was happy or not, it would just matter that there's a girl who wants to keep dating me. That's something that I have concerns about, again, especially when you look at my family history of terrible marriages/ relationships. I would absolutely settle for someone I don't actually want to be with, in a heartbeat, and that scares me, but I don't REALLY want that.

Are U asking girls out on dates and they are saying no? Or are you simply Layin around whining that no girl is running to you to ask u for a date?

I've asked out a few girls in person, and yes, they all said no. The only time I ask a girl out in person is when I KNOW I like her enough to want to date her, and that doesn't happen very often. The rest, over the last year, have been done via online dating sites (again, this just makes more sense for me, since I don't really get out much to actually meet people offline). Very few girls respond to my initial messages, and the ones that do only stick around for a little while then disappear pretty quickly. All in all, in the last 12 months, I've attempted to contact over 100 women, and not a single one of them amounted to a date.

I'll echo this. I met my wife 22 years ago. Knew the day I met her that she was the one for me... and that I couldn't have her. Married her 2+ years ago.

patience, grasshopper.

Believe me... it would've been better to have been patient, met her, wooed her, proposed to her and been married to her for decades by now, rather than to have been through the multiple failed relationships and marriages that I have.

On the other hand... without having BEEN through those relationships, I wouldn't have gone through the changes that were necessary (and neither would she) for us to HAVE our successful, wonderful, fulfilling relationship.

So, I guess what I'm really saying here, is that The Universe (or God, if you prefer) takes a hand. Gives you the chance to grow and learn what you need to, setting what you need in front of you. Maybe what you need right now is time to re-assess.

The other thing to keep in mind, is that life is a journey, true love is a goal - not a destination. I've gotten to that goal, but the journey continues. Your attitude is paramount - stay positive. It will come.

Be.

Be happy.

Work.

WORK for happiness.

Well, that's a nice story, and I'm happy for you and all, but in my experience, life doesn't tend to work that way for me. Last year, I met a girl who I had an unbelievable, uncanny chemistry with. It almost seemed surreal to me, and I really thought she was into me, too, and I could really picture us together, happy, having fun, and being a great couple. But she rejected me. Then she went on to date other guys, stupid douchey jerks that ended up cheating on her. While she was doing that, things became weird between she and I, and she made it clear to me that me and her would never happen. We're on friendlier terms now, but within the next few months, I suspect the nature of how she and I know each other will change, and I won't ever see her again. And that really sucks.

Maybe she's stuck in a bad "phase", dating jerks that cheat on her, right now, but I don't have any doubt that she'll eventually find someone that will be good to her, and it just makes me both sad and angry that I couldn't have been that guy. Meanwhile, I'll continue to fail finding anyone to date, and best case scenario, I end up with some woman I don't really like, just so that I have someone. I hate that, it really makes me, well, mad. I know I keep repeating that, but that's what all of this makes me feel.

[Indestructible]

You know what else I'm angry about? I'm angry that after more than a year, I still have lingering feelings for the last girl I really liked. I'm angry that I still see her (not by choice) often enough for it to be an issue for me. I'm angry that one of her exes that cheated on her is also a mutual "friend". I'm angry that every time the three of us are together, she and he are still pretty flirtatious with each other, and constantly hang on each other. I'm angry that whenever they disappear, I wonder what they're talking about, what's going on between them, if they're sleeping together. I'm angry that she used to hang out with me a lot (until I asked her out), but preferred dating douchey "cool guys" like this guy and the last jerk that cheated on her. I'm angry that I'm going to be spending a bit of time tonight with her and this other guy, having to sit by while they hang on each other, while I drive myself crazy wondering why she's so enthralled with some jerk she used to date that cheated on her. I'm angry that this other guy knows how much I like(d) this girl, and doesn't even seem to care, despite him telling me he's my friend.

Ugh. I used to beat myself up over this whole situation, but now it all just makes me mad. I'm not mad at her, specifically, I'm just mad at the way things work in the world. Here's a girl who's so smart and mature for her age, has such a bright future ahead of her, and is someone I connect with amazingly, better than anyone, honestly. She and I are practically kindred spirits. And yet, someone like me isn't an attractive partner to her. She'd rather give herself to guys that are stupid and immature, guys that are full of themselves, guys that aren't content having just one woman in their lives. And all for what? Because these guys are "hot"? Because they're "cool", and "rugged", and super masculine?

That's what really grinds my gears, so to speak. I can find a girl who's smart, and funny, and down to earth, and she and I can really connect, but I'm never going to be "the guy" she has eyes for, because there's always going to be a guy out there who's "hotter", "cooler", more "masculine", etc. I can't compete with that. I'm not that guy, and I never will be. I always hoped that crap like that doesn't REALLY matter to women. People have always told me that women are less shallow than men, and will generally be more attracted to a good person, with a warm personality and a kind heart. And I've tried to be a "good person", I've always tried to be the best person I could be, but I really have to wonder, what's the point? Women don't care about a "good person". The world doesn't care about a "good person". A "good person" isn't exciting, it's not sexy, it's not attractive.

That's why I think I'm screwed, because I'm not built for today's generation. I'm too "old fashioned" for my age. I don't want to be a wild and crazy partyer, I don't want to have multiple sex partners, I don't want to "play the game". I just want to be a good person that can find and attract a great girl. But the world just doesn't work that way, at least not anymore. People are so sexually charged and sexually driven, these days, and I don't have a place in this generation. No girl is ever going to see a short, quiet, goofy-looking guy like me and think "Ooh, I want to get naked/ have sex with him!". It's just not going to happen. At my core, this "sexually driven" mentality people have is one of the things I'm the angriest about.

[jnickjohns]

I don't think the word choice you're using is reflecting that of a good person. You seem bitter, have said multiple times that you're angry, and that's just not attractive.

Maybe if you stop worrying about finding someone to date, that person you're looking for will come along.

The most fulfilling relationship I've found was one I stumbled on--when I had a broken heart and was bitter about love--with someone who showed interest in not my body or physical appearance, but someone who asked me a simple question when my aunt died, "Do you want to grab a beer and talk about it?"

At first, I wasn't so sure I wanted anything with him, not because I wasn't at all attracted, just because I thought the timing was a little off. We just kept spending time together and I realized that he wasn't interested in just having sex with me. That's really what did it for me, connecting with someone on more than a physical level.

It's not all about the physical appearances or "the game." It's about holding yourself to a standard that doesn't include having sex on the first date, and feeling out the people that feel the same. It's about taking chances, and not giving up. Maybe you're just not aware that that person is there for you, somewhere.

[j-white]

It might seem like an unrelated question but do you play computer games? If so, how much do you play? If not, what kind of hobbies do you have?

[basilandthyme]

It's less of an "unwillingness" and more that it just never sinks in with me. I've been trying to learn/ do better at this, but it's still a big challenge for me.

So, what practical measures have you taken to learn? What courses and books have you taken on?

This is a bit exaggerated. I don't need to know a girl's entire life story or anything like that. All I really want to know about a girl is what her personality is like and how well we get along, and that's not necessarily something I can discern in a few minutes of meeting a new girl to ask her out right then and there. It just takes a little more time to figure that kind of thing out. Honestly, between going to class, going to work, and interning on the side, my time is becoming more limited than ever; so if I'm going to go on a date, I don't want to waste my time with someone that I don't know enough about to get along with well (and really, if I'm not into her, chances are, I'm wasting her time, too).

If you can't make time to start getting to know a girl over coffee for an hour, then I can only figure that a relationship isn't that important to you. We make time for the things which are important to us.

Eh? I don't recall saying anything like that. I don't avoid social situations, but I admit, I don't have an active social life. I try to make friends and build a social circle and have things to do, and whatnot, but I haven't had much success with that either. But I don't "avoid" anything; if someone invites me out, I'm there, no questions asked. I don't remember ever saying I wanted a girl that avoids social situations; if anything, I'd say that I want a girl that's social but is okay with spending a night in every now and then rather than having to constantly go out.

Good. Glad I was mistaken about that one. But the small talk thing will also help you build a social network.

[Indestructible]

I'm bitter and angry NOW, but this isn't how I've always been. I've been trying to keep my head up, stay positive, and approach everything with a healthy attitude over the years, but all the failures and rejections and all of that have just beaten me down over the last few months, and now I just feel anger and resentment about this topic.

Yeah, it'd be nice to find people that ARE looking for a good person, but that's not exactly easy to weed out. I was positive the last girl I liked was looking for someone like me, and I've never felt that way before, but I was wrong. And you'd think that with the 100+ girls I've attempted with over the last year, I should've gotten at least one date, but nope.

It might seem like an unrelated question but do you play computer games? If so, how much do you play? If not, what kind of hobbies do you have?

I do, but not as much as I'd like to. Gaming has always been my main hobby, but for whatever reason, I just haven't really been doing it as much as I'd like to, the last couple of years. My hobbies are mainly pretty "nerdy", but I enjoy them, and that's all that really matters, right?

[Jffs24]

What happened to your std test, and ****ing that woman? in your other 2 threads. ??????