He doesn't want children of our own.

[Mia91]

*Here's a "little" backstory on my relationship. I'm sorry, it's long. If you have the patience to go through this, thank you.
Also- please don’t judge me or my boyfriend. If you’re spiritual you’ll have an easier time sympathising with us. If you’re the same kind of down-to-earth atheist I thought I was, you probably won’t be able to help me. But if you feel you have something helpful to say, nicely, I beg, then please do.*

Hey everyone.

I'm new here.

I'll be 23 soon and this is the first relationship I've ever been in. I have a lot of trouble socially and have struggled with self esteem and PTSD, but it feels like I've hit the jackpot when it comes to love. Well, it did. Now it's an almost-jackpot.
This man makes me laugh, makes me feel beautiful and safe, I can be myself, be the biggest goof that I have trouble showing usually because people see it as crazy... but he's the same, so we have the best time. He listens to me, wants nothing but my happiness. He understands me like no one else has ever even tried before. He’s so loving, I didn’t know anyone could feel this way for me.

We've been together for almost 6 months - it's got serious very very fast. We both knew early on that what we had was something else.
We've become best friends, and are very much in love.
I can understand the skepticism seeing as it's my first "real" love and we've only been together for a short time, but I can't really imagine being able to feel so comfortable around anybody else.

You'll probably think I'm completely idolising him - I don't believe I am, too much. Yes I love him immensely and think the world of him, but I'm not one to believe anything naively, so bear with me.

He is very special. The closest definition that could apply to him, is him being an Indigo. If you look it up you'll basically find the typical characteristics that describe him and others like him. He fits all the signs. He feels it's something else, but in any case it's very very close.

Much to my shock I've seen what he can do. I truly believe he's somehow more connected, awakened, than most people, which gives him access to more information, and to his own subconscious.

Anyway, very early on we talked of what might happen if I got pregnant.
He said he wasn't ready (which I more than agree on, we're both students living modestly), so we would have to take the necessary precautions to prevent this, but that we had all the time in the world to be a family later on.
That was 3 months into the relationship, and the conversation was a little awkward, but I suppose that's normal.

Shortly after that he told me he loved me, and I told him the same.

Since then we've sometimes mused over how our kids would be like, jokingly imagining them to be the biggest handfuls judging on our personalities.

2 weeks ago we went to the mountains for a few days just to relax and enjoy each other's company without distractions.
We talked of our goals in life. He told me he wanted to change the world. I told him I've always only wanted to be a mother.
I told him that it's something I've always really looked forward to, but I never thought I'd ever find someone to share it with. I want all of it, I get stars in my eyes thinking of it; the pregnancy, the infancy, childhood, everything. It's like a dream.
He told me he secretly wanted a family too. I was thrilled. I couldn't imagine anyone better to be the father of my kids.
I've seen him around children, he's amazing, they love him and he loves them.

We came back from the mountains on a high, and the weekend after that when I was at his place and we were talking, he told me he really wanted us to go the distance.
We might have discussed a potential future, but this is the first time we really admitted out loud, concretely, that we wanted to be together for a long time, and build ourselves a life together. We started throwing around ideas on when and how we'd move in together in a new apartment, or until then, how we could redecorate his studio together. There was a tangible sense of comfort, confidence in us as a couple, and just knowing we were right for each other and happy.

So there I was, overjoyed, thinking we had all this time in front of us to have fun and be together, and that later on, when our studies were done, and we had stable jobs, we'd get a new place, and start a family. The future seemed so bright.

Until last Friday night, 4 days ago, when he dropped a bomb on me that I didn't expect.

We had a very long and serious conversation on us, his spiritual journey, how he felt he was getting so close to fulfilling his life mission.
We'd polished off a bottle of wine and had opened a second, but the conversation lasted around 6-7 hours so we honestly weren't drunk.
Our tongues were a little more loose than usual though.

At some point during the conversation, I can't remember what he had been saying at the time (for obvious reasons seeing as what came next), I suddenly see him tear up, look at me straight in the eyes and say :
"Mia, I don't want to have children. I just can't."

I was shocked. At first I thought he meant he was sterile, at which point I felt the compassion and sorrow for him well up inside me. I started to tear up too, and I got up to hold him, as he said "We can adopt ... but I'm sorry, I just can't give you what you want. I wish I could, I really do."
I told him it didn't matter, that all I wanted was for him to be happy. Which is true, but later on that night I found out that wasn't all of it.

After I'd sat back down, he explained what he meant, and this news was harder.
He told me he didn't want to biologically father anyone's child.
He could, but he didn't want to. Ever.

I couldn't fathom why. Yes, he has ADHD, something that can be inherited, but other than that (which isn't even a problem to me anyway), he'd be a great dad. The potential our children would have I felt was immense.

So I asked him why.

Now to preserve some kind of privacy, all I'll say is that he felt fathering children would hinder him in his spiritual journey. He was very serious about this, it's the most important thing in his life and he doesn't want to jeopardise it. He explained in detail why he thought his. I understood him a little. I respected him and his beliefs. Of course I still do.

But still I just sat there, holding back tears. Still in shock, we’d been talking long into the night, it was now past 5am.
He told me, almost crying himself, that he’d understand if I wanted to leave him then and there.
I told him there’s nothing I wanted less.

We went outside for some air.
We talked about it some more.
He said it hurt him that he couldn’t give me what I wanted so bad. He felt terribly guilty, but felt there was no way around it.

He then went on to say that maybe, potentially, he could imagine having one child, just the one… and though the hope swelled inside me, I rebuked it and reminded him what he’d just said, and told him I didn’t want him to agree to me having his child just to appease me, when all along he’d know it wasn’t right. That’s no way to bring a baby into the world.
Though I could try to convince him, I don’t want to manipulate him either and have him regret anything.

He told me again he’d have no problem adopting. He’d fill a house with adopted kids if I wanted.

But he knew what it meant to me; I’d told him how much I wanted the whole package. Falling pregnant with his child. Sharing the pregnancy together, seeing the tears in his eyes when he or she was finally born. Knowing that love only a mother knows, from the very beginning, as soon as she finds out she’s with child.
He knew this, because I’d told him.
He admitted to me he refused to accept that I suffer for 9 months, with the morning sickness, the mood swings, the back pain, and finally being torn in two during labour. What kind of way to create life was that ? Though I don’t care about that, because for me the reward is more than worth the struggle, for him it made no sense.

-One thing I didn't tell him, is that I'm secretly afraid I won't love my adopted child as much as I could my own. There're a lot of chemicals that help spur on motherly love during pregnancy and during birth, and you miss out on those when you adopt. I'm afraid it won't be the same. This is a fear of mine. It might be irrational, I don't know-

I started to get cold, so we went back inside and got ready for bed.
I told him I would need time to sort everything out in my head.

As we lay down in bed, I curled up around him. I was worn out, and I remember him saying there were other ways. I could get a sperm donor. Or find somebody else.
This broke me, I didn’t want to even start to imagine being without him. Though I’d tried to hold it together until then, everything burst at that point and I started to shake and cry like I hadn’t in a long time.
He held me for a while and when I’d calmed down a little, he asked me where the tears came from.
I said “Everything.”

He apologised, over and over, told me how it hurt him to hurt me.
I told him I was sorry too.

There was a moment of near silence, him breathing deeply, me gradually matching my breathing to his.
I told him I loved him, so much. He asked, “Why do you say this ?”
“Because it’s the truth”, I said. He told me he loved me too.

Eventually we fell asleep.

Later that day when I woke up (I always wake up before him), I was hit with sadness and confusion.
What was I supposed to do ?
What was more important ? Conceiving and giving birth to a child, or being with him ?
I felt - still does - like an impossible decision I didn’t want to have to make.

When he finally woke up I was thoroughly distraught again, and just looking at him made me want to cry.
He caught on straight away as I started to get dressed, getting ready to leave, and asked if I was ok.
I told him the news was still extremely fresh (a few hours !) and that of course until then I was going to have a hard time keeping it together.
And I didn’t know how long it was going to last.
I asked him if he could bear to be around me like this, he said “Honestly, if every time you look at me there are tears in your eyes, I don’t think I can.”
So I told him I’d try to compartmentalise. Think about this in my own time.
I still wanted to spend time with him, but how could I if I wanted to burst into tears all the time ?
I didn’t want to have to take a break. I’d miss him too much, I couldn’t bear it.

So I pulled myself together, locked it away as I’m so skilled at doing, and an hour later I left.
I came back that same evening and it was pushed under the rug. There, but we chose to ignore it.
We ended up having fun, watching movies, cuddling.
Every now and then I’d feel it creep back but I’d violently push it away.

It’s Monday night now. I spent all of Sunday and Monday with him too without it coming up. I’ll wait for the time to be right to talk about it again.
In the mean time I really feel like I need to talk to someone, but it’s far too personal to tell anyone I know. It might sound strange to you, but I’d rather talk about this to strangers.
I don’t want my family or friends to get involved (the only person I’m close to is my boyfriend, it’s one of my problems, I don’t trust anyone except him).

I’ve thought about it a lot. Maybe he’ll change his mind. He told me if it turned out he was wrong about all of what he told me, we’d have a football field of kids. But I can’t rely on that either. For the minute he’s pretty convinced.
I thought about adoption.
Despite my fears, I’d always thought it would be right to adopt.
But only after I’d had my own biological child. It’s selfish. I know. But I cling to it, I want it.

I found out adoption in my country costs around 2200$, and the requirements are minimum 5 years of mariage, and both parents have to be over 35 years of age.
35 years old. That’s 12 years from now. I’d imagined settling down in my late 20’s, and having children then. 12 years seems unbearably long.
I haven’t talked to him about what I’ve found out. The time isn’t right. When it does come around, we’ll talk about this obstacle. We haven’t spoken of mariage yet. It’s something I want but it’s not a must. Whether he wants to get married or not doesn’t matter, as long as we’re together. But the family part does.
Our kids. Half me, half him. I don’t want it any other way.
But for now it seems it’ll never be that way.

And the part of me that I’m desperately locking in my mind so I don’t break down every second is lost.
Where 5 days ago I was 100% sure I was on the right path, I was so convinced he was the one.
Now I still believe this, but I’m having a hard time bringing it together with the fact that I might never become a mother.

How does one choose with the most amazing person in the world, and what you feel is your calling ? This yearning you’ve had since age 13 to carry a baby and love it throughout its childhood ? It had been growing steadily stronger as the weeks with my boyfriend accumulated, but now I don’t want to think of babies, it makes me too sad.

I love him. I want him and only him.
But he won’t give me children.

Am I being incredibly selfish ?
Am I allowed to want this ?

I don’t know what to do at the moment.

I was thinking of just keeping this can of worms shut tight until much later on. Perhaps he’d change his mind.
Or perhaps I’d get over this fantasy and accept that I won’t ever give birth.
Maybe I can’t even physically have children (it’s a thought that’s always been at the back of my mind). It seems so stupid to realise you left someone because they wouldn’t give you a child, when you couldn’t have any anyway.

But as I said. I’m still quite lost.

I don’t know what I’m asking for here.
Support, maybe.
Compassion.
I’d like to hear anyone who’s been through the same thing.
Advice, maybe. Though the last thing I want to hear is “Move on”. I can’t. I won’t.


Thank you for reading this far, in any case.

Mia.

[BackUpOrGetStng]

On what planet is that ^^^ considered "a little back story"?

Your story really is irrelevant. He doesn't want kids. You do. Break up or deal with it. Or keep bitching, and hope that will change something.

[Mia91]

Thanks. That wasn't very kind, but I guess I have to expect some replies like this.
Guess empathy isn't a given to everyone.

[BackUpOrGetStng]

I'm sorry, I can't empathize with being so wrapped up in another person that I would sacrifice something as basic and as major as having children. If all you came here to do is bitch about your problems, then don't ask practical questions.

[Mia91]

Ok about not being able to empathise.
I just think it's a little mean to say I'm bitching when I'm upset and obviously lost.
But never mind, it's ok.

[searock]

Mia, don't mind BackUp, he's always rude like that - he believes that it actually helps to be rude. He does have a point though, not about "bitching" (I don't think you are "bitching"), but with regards to the fact that you know your options and there's nothing much we can say to help you.

Your options are:

1) don't ever have kids, stay in the relationship with him;
2) have kids with a sperm donor, raise them with him;
3) adopt kids with him;
4) leave him and eventually find another guy, that wants the same things as you do.

One problem you also need to address is that you don't have close friends other than your boyfriend. This is never a good thing, to focus ALL of your emotional spectrum around one single person.

Out of curiosity, how old is he?

[Mia91]

Mia, don't mind BackUp, he's always rude like that - he believes that it actually helps to be rude. He does have a point though, not about "bitching" (I don't think you are "bitching"), but with regards to the fact that you know your options and there's nothing much we can say to help you.

Your options are:

1) don't ever have kids, stay in the relationship with him;
2) have kids with a sperm donor, raise them with him;
3) adopt kids with him;
4) leave him and eventually find another guy, that wants the same things as you do.

One problem you also need to address is that you don't have close friends other than your boyfriend. This is never a good thing, to focus ALL of your emotional spectrum around one single person.

Out of curiosity, how old is he?

Thank you searock for your answer. It helps a lot when people are polite.
I guess I realise I know my options. I just have nobody to talk to about this and I needed to let it out.
The thing is I've never been close to anybody. I always knew it would take a boyfriend for me to open up completely and be able to feel love. I was right.
So whereas before I loved no one, now I love him. My social needs have always been minimal, he fulfils all of them.
I have read and heard it's not good, but I don't really want it to change either.
The only downside is if we break up I'll be worse off than when I was perpetually single. I'll probably end up depressed (again).

He is 23 going on 24.

[Valixy]

Mia, we've all wanted to change the World in our early 20ies, not only the Indigo generation to which you both belong to. Most people discover in time that just with doing the best they can in their own little world they have more than enough for a life time :-)

Give him some time, he might change his opinion about his mission in the world or at least start seeing a course of action. Or he might discover that he could perfectly combine both, family and service, and he wouldn't be the first great human being to do that, even if it has been preferred by many not to get married and even practise abstinence. You'll know better what to do in a few years. Truth is that even your desire to become a mother might change in time. Who we are in our 20ies is not who we really are and always will be. You both still have a lot of growing up to do, discovering yourselves, each other and understanding life and that's the beauty of it. Try to detach a little bit, let things run their course and enjoy the journey.

[searock]

I really think you should solve your psychological issues. You can be independent and happy, you know .

[bluesummer]

Well I'm a 'down-to-earth atheist' that hopes you won't mind a bit of my input?

Honestly you are so young. Who you are as a person right now will change a lot over the next ten years, I promise you. Your boyfriend will change as well. What you think you need to be happy now, or the goals you have for your future will also change.

Maybe he is not ready for children NOW....seriously, he's a 23 year old man (sort of), he has no clue what the hell he wants in life yet. He is still figuring himself out. I don't know many 23 year old men who are really excited about the prospect of children as it is; and maybe whatever spiritual journey he is on AT THE MOMENT is going to change his way of thinking, in time. The question is, what do you love more: him, or the idea of having children with him? What if it turns out he was physically unable to do so, would you love him less? He hasn't said NO children, just no biological children....he did mention you getting a sperm donor....which while it seems a bit callous is actually shockingly open-minded for a man. However if it is an absolute dealbreaker for you, you MUST have biological children with the man you're with, then break up. He may change his mind, but he may not. So if you're not in the relationship for the long haul to be with HIM, then don't go on with it.

[TablesandChairs]

Firstly, I noticed you asked if you were being selfish for wanting children. Of course not. Wanting to have our own children is programmed within us and as women, that yearning is probably stronger. You've been told 'no', not 'when the time is right' or 'when we have enough $' so given this finite answer, you're naturally feeling pretty crap about things.

"he refused to accept that I suffer for 9 months, with the morning sickness, the mood swings, the back pain, and finally being torn in two during labour. What kind of way to create life was that?".

What an odd thing to say. Yes there's some pain and discomfort but given that millions upon millions of women do it, many without any medical assistance...I don't believe that's a valid reason, just an excuse. Many women enjoy their pregnancy and if you have a mood swing or two and some back pain, so what? A good partner accepts that.

Your partner reminds me of my first boyfriend, who I was with for 7 years. He too wanted to save the world. He was kind, generous, spiritual...he's 36 now and is still on that journey. He's still 'saving' the world. He hasn't made much of his life in regular terms and while I'm sure he's on the path he's supposed to be on, it wasn't my path, which is why we broke up...it was heartbreaking but, looking back now...it was the best decision I've ever made. I wanted more out of life...I didn't want to live like a hippy, go to endless spiritual retreats and so forth. He'll spend forever finding himself but I'd already found myself and knew what I wanted.

He's told you clearly so now it's up to you. If you value him over having a family of your own, then you should stay but you need to keep in mind what you will be sacrificing and whether, years down the track, you'll still be happy with that. It's very early in your relationship and your love for him will push you towards making a certain decision (to stay) and that's okay...but don't base staying on him changing his mind, he may never do that. Also, look at his goals in life - do they match their own? Don't be suckered down a path that isn't your own.

[searock]

Side note: wanting to have children is not selfish, however I don't think it's "programmed" in every one of us.

[Mia91]

Mia, we've all wanted to change the World in our early 20ies, not only the Indigo generation to which you both belong to. Most people discover in time that just with doing the best they can in their own little world they have more than enough for a life time :-)

Give him some time, he might change his opinion about his mission in the world or at least start seeing a course of action. Or he might discover that he could perfectly combine both, family and service, and he wouldn't be the first great human being to do that, even if it has been preferred by many not to get married and even practise abstinence. You'll know better what to do in a few years. Truth is that even your desire to become a mother might change in time. Who we are in our 20ies is not who we really are and always will be. You both still have a lot of growing up to do, discovering yourselves, each other and understanding life and that's the beauty of it. Try to detach a little bit, let things run their course and enjoy the journey.

Thank you so much Valixy for your answer !
This post really put things into perspective and it's like something clicked in my head.
I don't think I'll detach from him, but I'll definitely remember that I could change my mind too (though it's difficult to conceive as a thought at the moment, because my opinion on the matter has been the same for as long as I can remember).
It's made me extremely happy and I realise how lucky I am to have him.
For the moment the sadness has lifted. Thank you !

I really think you should solve your psychological issues. You can be independent and happy, you know .

It's something I'd been working on for a while, seeing a psychiatrist to help with my PTSD, but since I've been with him I haven't felt the need to talk to her, so I stopped going. I know my work wasn't finished, but I'm in a good place at the moment, so I'm still debating whether to go back to her !
Thanks for the advice though !

Well I'm a 'down-to-earth atheist' that hopes you won't mind a bit of my input?

Honestly you are so young. Who you are as a person right now will change a lot over the next ten years, I promise you. Your boyfriend will change as well. What you think you need to be happy now, or the goals you have for your future will also change.

Maybe he is not ready for children NOW....seriously, he's a 23 year old man (sort of), he has no clue what the hell he wants in life yet. He is still figuring himself out. I don't know many 23 year old men who are really excited about the prospect of children as it is; and maybe whatever spiritual journey he is on AT THE MOMENT is going to change his way of thinking, in time. The question is, what do you love more: him, or the idea of having children with him? What if it turns out he was physically unable to do so, would you love him less? He hasn't said NO children, just no biological children....he did mention you getting a sperm donor....which while it seems a bit callous is actually shockingly open-minded for a man. However if it is an absolute dealbreaker for you, you MUST have biological children with the man you're with, then break up. He may change his mind, but he may not. So if you're not in the relationship for the long haul to be with HIM, then don't go on with it.

Yes your contribution did help thank you
I like the fact that you pin-pointed the exact question "what do you love more: him, or the idea of having children with him?"
I have to reply "him" to this, so this really helped too.
I do find him to be very mature in some prospects, I also think that him suggesting a sperm donor is a big deal, I find it shows how he feels for me.
Thank you again for your input !

[Silent Siren]

Truthfully Mia I think that your man will change his mind eventually. You're both young and full of ambition and hope about the world and your place in it. As you get older, you make your mark (whatever that turns out to be) and the seek the next part of life's journey. Men have their own biological clock and an evolved need to procreate no matter what their mind tells them. It's biology. One of these days when he feels like he's made enough impact on the outside world and is satisfied with his place in it, he's going to want to add his own DNA to it.

BUT...there is the chance that he will never change his mind. You have to be prepared for any outcome whatever you choose to do. Or not be attached to any outcome at all. Just live doing what is best for you. If you cannot imagine your life without this man, stay with him and choose his way. If you cannot imagine your life without children, then you can either break it off now or hope that biology will take over one day.

I would stay with love but that's just me. Or you can be sneaky and point out to him every crystal child you run across and comment how beautiful your crystal children would be as well...it's a little manipulative but you are given that power, use it

[Mia91]

Firstly, I noticed you asked if you were being selfish for wanting children. Of course not. Wanting to have our own children is programmed within us and as women, that yearning is probably stronger. You've been told 'no', not 'when the time is right' or 'when we have enough $' so given this finite answer, you're naturally feeling pretty crap about things.

"he refused to accept that I suffer for 9 months, with the morning sickness, the mood swings, the back pain, and finally being torn in two during labour. What kind of way to create life was that?".

What an odd thing to say. Yes there's some pain and discomfort but given that millions upon millions of women do it, many without any medical assistance...I don't believe that's a valid reason, just an excuse. Many women enjoy their pregnancy and if you have a mood swing or two and some back pain, so what? A good partner accepts that.

Your partner reminds me of my first boyfriend, who I was with for 7 years. He too wanted to save the world. He was kind, generous, spiritual...he's 36 now and is still on that journey. He's still 'saving' the world. He hasn't made much of his life in regular terms and while I'm sure he's on the path he's supposed to be on, it wasn't my path, which is why we broke up...it was heartbreaking but, looking back now...it was the best decision I've ever made. I wanted more out of life...I didn't want to live like a hippy, go to endless spiritual retreats and so forth. He'll spend forever finding himself but I'd already found myself and knew what I wanted.

He's told you clearly so now it's up to you. If you value him over having a family of your own, then you should stay but you need to keep in mind what you will be sacrificing and whether, years down the track, you'll still be happy with that. It's very early in your relationship and your love for him will push you towards making a certain decision (to stay) and that's okay...but don't base staying on him changing his mind, he may never do that. Also, look at his goals in life - do they match their own? Don't be suckered down a path that isn't your own.

Your first boyfriend does sound like mine. And yes, it's a journey he will always be on, but I can go with him.
We don't care much for what regular society thinks making something of our lives means. We see that there's more to life than a set schedule of work so you can live later on. We'd like to live as much as possible now We will have to work of course but if ever we get the chance to just drop everything and travel we will.
I'm not yet sure his path is my path, but for the minute being with him feels right. He has helped me and can still help me in so many ways, that has to mean something.
I don't know what my goal in life is, aside being a mother. Maybe I could be a great mother to adoptive children. Maybe I'll go into research in biology and genetics (my field of interest).
Or I might write, or compose ... I don't know.
Perhaps I should give myself time to figure that out.
But what I do know now is that I don't want to leave him. He is more important to me in this instant than having my own children.
I'll see.

Truthfully Mia I think that your man will change his mind eventually. You're both young and full of ambition and hope about the world and your place in it. As you get older, you make your mark (whatever that turns out to be) and the seek the next part of life's journey. Men have their own biological clock and an evolved need to procreate no matter what their mind tells them. It's biology. One of these days when he feels like he's made enough impact on the outside world and is satisfied with his place in it, he's going to want to add his own DNA to it.

BUT...there is the chance that he will never change his mind. You have to be prepared for any outcome whatever you choose to do. Or not be attached to any outcome at all. Just live doing what is best for you. If you cannot imagine your life without this man, stay with him and choose his way. If you cannot imagine your life without children, then you can either break it off now or hope that biology will take over one day.

I would stay with love but that's just me. Or you can be sneaky and point out to him every crystal child you run across and comment how beautiful your crystal children would be as well...it's a little manipulative but you are given that power, use it

Thanks for your positive input ! I have no idea whether or not he will change his mind, but I have indeed chosen love, I choose him. I will try my best not to be manipulative, but maybe he'll see it for himself !

Thank you all so much I didn't think I'd get clarity posting here, I hoped at best I'd get some support, maybe.
I feel happy now and can't wait to share it with him.