How do I advance Friends with benefits to something serious?

[Vandle]

My best friend of 3 years and I, the most beautiful woman I've met in the flesh (and few others top her in Hollywood) and I have gone to friends with benefits. She's come to trust me, and while I'm not the only man she's sleeping with, I'm one of maybe half a dozen that aren't on a secret list of men who make her feel like a whore, which she has compiled over her entire life. The only real relationship she's ever had left her with a 3 year old at the age of 23. Their first break-up was him cheating on her, the second her cheating on him, the third just inevitable. She shouldn't have bothered, the guy was a douche-bag. But she wanted a real family for her son. Now I'm afraid a deeper mutual affection is building between US. I welcome it. She, however, has a deep fear of it.
She attempts to provoke jealousy responses by casually speaking about her other trysts. It would be a great excuse to stop laying with me, stop bonding with me. The worst I do is get quiet. But she already trusts me more than any other man in her life. I need to improve my income situation, get more stable, and THEN I can make a move. Worst part, this convict she had a crush on 8 years ago is getting out of prison on the 23rd. She's kept in contact with him, and lets her 15-year-old memories effect her judgement. Worst part is, he has an STD, and not the kind you cure. If she does this, I know she'll ruin her life, and I've tried to tell her. I think she listened, but I'm not sure. And if I tell her I love her, it's the equivalent of the Hiroshima nuclear attack on an emotional level. I don't want to destroy this chance, but there are so many variables I do not control. I feel my course is right for now, wait and let it develop, show my patience and acceptance. But when the time DOES come, how do I go about this? What should I say?

[Maple1714]

Wow....you are in a situation huh? What STD does she have? I am just curious. She is sleeping with half a dozen different men right now including you? Sounds a bit messy, although I think it's impressive that she has woven this life for herself. It's nice to find men who will sleep with you, knowing they're not the only one and not make you feel like a whore. I have only met 1 man so far who told me he'd be up for being in that type of situation with me. I find most men are very possessive...

You probably feel that you are being open minded and strong by being this type of man in her life don't you? Really, I think you are just allowing yourself to be used by an emotionally immature woman. A woman who doesn't REALLY love herself enough to really love anyone else. She likes all the attention from these diff. men and emotionally needs it. That will NEVER change unless she does some serious self work. You are in love with her. She will never be only with you...is that the type of partner you want? Your relationship with her will never progress past this stage unless she changes...it wont matter what words you use.

[Vandle]

No no. Her con crush has an STD. Herpes. His wife gave it to him before he got locked up. I worry she'll sleep with him and ruin her life. And she has maybe 2 or 3 other partners right now, who are all clean and few and far between. I'm the one making steady weekend visits, the only one helping her in her personal life. And yes, she doesn't love herself enough, and degrades herself because she feels it's what she deserves. I'm trying to make her see that she IS better than that. I think we're making progress. And as to never being only with me: I don't think that's true. She just has issues with being unloved in childhood. It was VERY traumatic. Think Oliver Twist with heavy sex-and-drugs overtones... basically modernized in the worst possible sense. Thus romantic love in fact inspires feelings of nausea, which I think is more fear and revulsion not of love itself, but of being used through it.

[HeartIsAching]

Damn near everyone has herpes - something on the order of 80% of the human race will test positive. Most people's immune system suppresses it and it's never or rarely expressed.

[Maple1714]

No no. Her con crush has an STD. Herpes. His wife gave it to him before he got locked up. I worry she'll sleep with him and ruin her life. And she has maybe 2 or 3 other partners right now, who are all clean and few and far between. I'm the one making steady weekend visits, the only one helping her in her personal life. And yes, she doesn't love herself enough, and degrades herself because she feels it's what she deserves. I'm trying to make her see that she IS better than that. I think we're making progress. And as to never being only with me: I don't think that's true. She just has issues with being unloved in childhood. It was VERY traumatic. Think Oliver Twist with heavy sex-and-drugs overtones... basically modernized in the worst possible sense. Thus romantic love in fact inspires feelings of nausea, which I think is more fear and revulsion not of love itself, but of being used through it.

Oh ok! The con crush has the STD. Sorry, I misread.

Still, it will be a long road to a healthy romantic/exclusive love relationship with this woman...probably a life long struggle for both of you if you stick around that long. If you want to try, nothing any of us say here will make a difference. So, just be patient and keep doing what you are doing. Let her come around to loving you before you change anything you are currently doing. Just support her I guess.

[Vandle]

Thank you for confirming the path I knew I should take. I think I knew I loved this woman when we first met. I just can't pressure her in any way. It's like too much rain, sun, or nutrients to a sprout. Root-rot, chemical burn, dehydration... the end result of too much of ANY good thing is death. She's the only one I've loved enough to endure in-exclusivity, and that's saying a lot. Not to mention two of my three exes look like they should be on the business end of a harpoon... *shudders*

[Wakeup]

Do you think you will be able to have a happy and healthy relationship with her without her getting help for herself? She's fine now while she knows that you are not committed and exclusive. My spidey sense tells me that she will revert back to what her romantic history paints about her once the perpetual honeymoon period that your FBuddy, sexual trysts provides. Your relationship has no mundane daily stresses to get in the way of your sex.

[Wakeup]

P.S. and Further to Above: You can't "fix" her. So you trying to make her do anything is about as promising and has as little odds as winning the next Super Lottery.

[Maple1714]

Thank you for confirming the path I knew I should take. I think I knew I loved this woman when we first met. I just can't pressure her in any way. It's like too much rain, sun, or nutrients to a sprout. Root-rot, chemical burn, dehydration... the end result of too much of ANY good thing is death. She's the only one I've loved enough to endure in-exclusivity, and that's saying a lot. Not to mention two of my three exes look like they should be on the business end of a harpoon... *shudders*

Lol about your exes.

If you love her this much and you want to go down this road w/her, then do it. I have been in your position before, except I wasn't willing to not be exclusive and the guy knew it and that was pretty much the end of anything btw. us. He was all messed up from his childhood and a previous broken heart and was "allergic" to even the idea of love. He was abused as a child...drugs/abandonment etc. Even after I cut the sex off, for years I was there under the guise of "friend" and tried to pretend I could handle being close to him on his terms only. Eventually, all me feelings imploded and it came out verbally towards him and now we don't even make eye contact when we run into each other. All of our feelings are still there just like the first day we met. Still breaks my heart when I stop and think about everything...so I don't. Last I heard he has been celibate for over 6 months...living in a co-worker's basement. My point is, there will come a time for you when you will not be able to hold your feelings in...and they will come pouring out in some way. Just be careful you don't begin to torture yourself at the expense of tip toeing around her broken self. You know what I mean?

[smackie9]

You've had 3 years to have this relationship develop into something serious, if it was going to happen it would have by now....stop looking at FWB as a sign of it progressing. She has security issues so she is just using your relationship as a crutch.If you have total fear of letting her know how you feel then you are just wasting your time because you KNOW it's just going to end whatever you have now. Pretty damn sad situation you got yourself in. Like the Wakeup said "you can't fix her". Just because you feel you are the right choice for her doesn't mean it's going to happen.....false hope my dear.

[Vandle]

To Wakeup: I'm fixing no one but myself, thank you oh-so-very-much. And you have NO IDEA how much I help her with her personal life and financial issues. She realizes what her problems are, I merely lend a machete to her intellectual thicket. Allowing proper time for realization of what's already present is a very different thing than making something from nothing.
So, conclusion is: too much judgement on too little information.

Smackie9 my dear: During these 3 years we were alternately involved in different relationships, hers with the father of her child, I with an angry hippopotamus. This and my requirement of monogamy on the outset are the 2 obstacles that prevented a LOT more fun, and no doubt bonding time, in our past, FYI. Conclusion: See answer A

And to Maple1714, staunch supporter and fast friend: I thank you for this warning, and it is heeded. I know I cannot hide my feelings. I must merely express them with less intensity then I wish too. I'm taking a page from the manual of the Bayushi Clan, the Scorpions: Gather your intelligence, tell the dishonest truth and the honest lie, and watch all angles for both opportunity and danger. Fully evaluate each situation before you take action, and always wear a smile, even as you draw the knife. The cold and calculating streak in me will serve well here, as long as my passion doesn't get the better of me. Thank you for all your words, both curt and kind, and I accept them in the spirit they are given.

[FAndrews]

As with everything in life, you don't know if you don't try. it sounds like a complicated situation so bide your time and wait for an ideal opportunity i suppose.

[Wakeup]

To Wakeup: I'm fixing no one but myself, thank you oh-so-very-much. And you have NO IDEA how much I help her with her personal life and financial issues. She realizes what her problems are, I merely lend a machete to her intellectual thicket. Allowing proper time for realization of what's already present is a very different thing than making something from nothing.
So, conclusion is: too much judgement on too little information.

Smackie9 my dear: During these 3 years we were alternately involved in different relationships, hers with the father of her child, I with an angry hippopotamus. This and my requirement of monogamy on the outset are the 2 obstacles that prevented a LOT more fun, and no doubt bonding time, in our past, FYI. Conclusion: See answer A

And to Maple1714, staunch supporter and fast friend: I thank you for this warning, and it is heeded. I know I cannot hide my feelings. I must merely express them with less intensity then I wish too. I'm taking a page from the manual of the Bayushi Clan, the Scorpions: Gather your intelligence, tell the dishonest truth and the honest lie, and watch all angles for both opportunity and danger. Fully evaluate each situation before you take action, and always wear a smile, even as you draw the knife. The cold and calculating streak in me will serve well here, as long as my passion doesn't get the better of me. Thank you for all your words, both curt and kind, and I accept them in the spirit they are given.

*lauging here*

However: This, from Maple is worth repeating.

You probably feel that you are being open minded and strong by being this type of man in her life don't you? Really, I think you are just allowing yourself to be used by an emotionally immature woman. A woman who doesn't REALLY love herself enough to really love anyone else.

Check yourself, Vandle. You're sounding awfully like you're SuperUnicorn.

[Maple1714]

And to Maple1714, staunch supporter and fast friend: I thank you for this warning, and it is heeded. I know I cannot hide my feelings. I must merely express them with less intensity then I wish too. I'm taking a page from the manual of the Bayushi Clan, the Scorpions: Gather your intelligence, tell the dishonest truth and the honest lie, and watch all angles for both opportunity and danger. Fully evaluate each situation before you take action, and always wear a smile, even as you draw the knife. The cold and calculating streak in me will serve well here, as long as my passion doesn't get the better of me. Thank you for all your words, both curt and kind, and I accept them in the spirit they are given.

Nice quote. I like it. The hard part is not letting your passion get the better of you. That is where I fell short, but I have learned and I wont allow myself to get tangled up in passion like that again. I wish you luck. How old are you both? Is she 26 now?

[Maple1714]

*lauging here*

I think it's funny OP referred to Smackie as "my dear" lol!