Dilemma

[michelle23]

What exactly will an open marriage give him apart from sex? Hes still going to be hurt, lonely, lacking affection, emotional connection.. thats settling for second best. Im not sure why people are pushing this on a man who was happy in a monogamous union until his wife turned cold. Doesnt he deserve to have all his needs met? Doesnt she?

[Wakeup]

The same reason people are pushing he leave his marriage when he doesn't want to do that, I guess? Its a solution to what he's come here asking about.

BTW: Just for the record. He can't be "pushed" into anything divorce or opening up the marriage. It's all up to his wife and what she'll agree to, or not.

[michelle23]

Well neither option is appealing

1 separate and have some space (sometimes time apart can help in these cases)
2 divorce (not recommended for at least a year after separation and they are both sure)
3 open marriage
4 stay and waste a pile of money on therapy since shes made it clear shes not going to change her mind
5 get therapy and figure out if theres a way they can both live healthily in this situation..

5 is probably the best option right now but I still think space, time apart to reflect and even miss each other can help especially when they have been together a long time. (You dont know what you have until its gone)

[Wakeup]

Well neither option is appealing

Yes... that's the dilemma!

[unclear]

Hi again. Thank you all again for helping me think this through. Marriage counseling appt. #3 was yesterday, and it went better than #2. We talked about the awkwardness we've both felt during any sort of intimacy including kissing. The therapist was trying to help us understand what the other was saying. We discussed different frustrations we each have, and some more about our backgrounds, experiences, etc. After the meeting, my wife reiterated that she doesn't think there's any hope of our situation getting better. Still, I felt a little better from getting a little more understanding of her perspective. For the time being I plan to continue with the counseling and see what happens. I am trying to stay hopeful despite what she has said. Maybe it will look different to her in the future?

[smackie9]

She is going to therapy for a reason, she wants to see if she can feel differently....if she didn't feel that way she would have walked.

[dem862]

The most important thing I realized after years of marriage counseling was that my marriage was indeed over, and it was time to move on.

[IndiReloaded]

Two resources to suggest, in addition to the already excellent comments:

1. Will Harley's Marriage Builders - read the sections on 'why women leave' and 'how affairs start'

2. Love Must Be Tough

You wife has given you an ultimatum. She did it in the most hurtful way possible, to tell you she no longer loves you. That IS what she has done, to say she has never found you attractive. Don't stick your head in the sand and don't let her weasel around with 'she loves you but isn't IN love with you'.

You have a choice to make. I will tell you from my own experience that it is noone else's to make but yours. I had a spouse who, by his actions, didn't really love me. No amount of counselling will change that (and my ex refused). I tried for years to 'make it work'. In the end, I couldn't fix our issues. In hindsight, leaving amicably was the best thing for me, him and our children. We are all very happy now. We both realize we were young, and didn't know our minds, nor the people we would grow into. It won't be easy but it is worth it. Its also an important lesson for your children IF you can do it and stay friendly, or at least civil. That's my story, if it helps. Yours will be different.

Good luck on your journey.

- - - Updated - - -

BTW: Just for the record. He can't be "pushed" into anything divorce or opening up the marriage. It's all up to his wife and what she'll agree to, or not.

Why is it up to the wife? This is just another example of disrespect on her part. There was no joint decision. Where did he get to 'decide' about not having sex anymore? To your earlier point - if he was also ok about being celibate in the marriage, that is a whole different situation. He can certainly get a divorce or look outside the marriage for sex without her permission. Though he sounds like he has more respect for himself and the marriage to not do it.

I do wonder if she was in love once and this is a case of unmet needs (which could be remedied) or if this is a truly sad case where she really never did love him. If the latter, I would certainly suggest the OP move on asap. Life is too short to spend it where one isn't wanted.

[Wakeup]

If she wants to leave. Then he won't be able to stop her is all I meant. It takes TWO people for a relationship to stay together. He can do all the things he thinks it will take to make it work (like you did in your marriage, Indie) but it was up to your husband to do the same... he chose not to so which in affect made it up to him whether the marriage succeeded or not. When only one wants it to be fixed, then it will never be fixed.

- - - Updated - - -

Short of shackling her up in the basement, if she wants to leave then she will. (which at this point she's saying she likely will). If she doesn't she won't and it looks like the op will acquiesce to her (at this point) Hopefully counciling will give him some sort of epiphany that he needn't be disrespected by her and he'll leave all the disrespect. In other words what we say here whether it be open marriage or get a divorce, our advise won't push him into anything. If I remember correctly I was replying to someone that said why were some people "pushing open marriage on him." When I said he won't be pushed into anything.

[unclear]

Hi all. I thought I'd write an update after a few weeks of couples therapy, and see what people think. First, I want to thank everyone for writing--it's very helpful. I would hit the "thank you" button on all the posts but it just takes too long. Second, I want to say that smackie9's post #36 was especially helpful to me. So a double thank-you to you, smackie9. Anyway, here's the update: (1) In a therapy session I was able to clearly state that I was angry and felt deceived by my wife, and she listened to this and talked it through in a way that made me feel like she understood my feelings and why. (2) She explained more about her thinking from the beginning of our relationship, the decision to get married, and different "phases" since. She basically has always cared for me as a friend and always hoped that the romantic/sexual attraction would develop, and it hasn't. (3) I am not ready to throw in the towel. But rather than proceed with "let's just never have sex again," I said, how about we agree to take a break from anything sexual for a full year, and then re-assess and see if anything feels different. Partly this is because she discussed feeling guilty for a long time for not being more into it with me, and at the same time she felt pressured and has been mad/upset about this. So my theory is, let's give it all a rest for a while and then see if we can start over. The therapist thought this was an OK plan, and my wife said OK too. I emphasized that she can always say no in a year, if she feels it's still not going to work. But this way I feel like there is a timeframe around it--a plan. She asked me what would I do if she said still no/never in a year, and I said I don't know. We are still continuing to see the counselor in the meantime so who knows what's around the corner. Anyway that's the update for now. Your thoughts?

[dem862]

I threw in the towel on a 12 year relationship when sex got down to once a month. No way I would agree to a year. You must really love her.

[Belleann]

Everyone might as well yell at me now for what I'm about to say but sweetie, SHE'S JUST NOT INTO YOU!!! and for some reason you are refusing to see it. So in the words of Idina Menzel LET IT GO!!!

[Belle's]

Sex is important in a relationship/marriage you really should not settle with that arrangement. Why not ask her what turns her on or what attracts her in a guy and then maybe with that information you can prepare a romantic gesture, You can even try role-playing in the bedroom since she's not attracted to you playing a role of someone that she's attracted to might just do the trick.

[unclear]

Belleann- you're probably right. Belle's- I've tried that line of questioning and the answer has basically been her saying that it's impossible for me to turn her on... it's not what I do or don't do, it's just who I am I guess. Like Belleann says, it seems that she's just not into me in that way. There was one time, a long time ago, when she asked me to talk dirty to her, which is not something I had done before--really not my personality. But I tried it for a while and during that time she was into it--she seemed way more turned on than at other times. Then at some point I made the mistake of telling her it's hard for me to pretend to be like that, as it just doesn't come naturally to me. After that she didn't even want me to try it, she said I ruined it. I was willing to try again anyway. Just kind of floating now, waiting to see what happens. Still unclear...

[michelle23]

Are you not incredibly angry by what shes saying? If its true-shes "always" felt this way, then why the heck did she marry you, why have 2kids with you? Has your whole marriage been a lie? Shes basically wasted years of your life.

I think the problem is she is the "boss", she wears the trousers, calls all the shots and you look at her all dooey eyed and say "yes dear"..

Maybe she wants you to take control, stand up to her, stop being a doormat for her. That is unattractive. If you want your wife to respect you and treat you like a man, then you have to respect yourself.

Stop making an effort, stop bending over backwards to please her, stop allowing her to be in control of every decision. This is your life and this affects you too so stop acting like its all on her terms. Thats not a marriage. A marriage should be equal

Distance yourself, go out with friends without her a couple of times a week, work late, watch tv or play with kids when your home. Ignore her as much as you can, be aloof, act dis-interested, join a new hobby. Try it for a few weeks-see if she cares or even notices.

Tell her you regret agreeing to those terms and you need time to think and you will talk to her when you are ready. Don't turn up at the next few sessions of counselling and then go see the counsellor on your own.

What your doing isn't working. You need to try something different. And sometimes just showing her you are not a doormat and you are worth more than this can help a lot.

Good men are hard to find so realize you deserve better than this and stop trying so hard to please her all the time

Her explanation doesn't even make any sense. I think its lies