Separated and still in the same house

[JohnPeel]

3 Nov 2014 Update

I am feeling better today, but have been in such a horrible place lately. I found myself looking through internet pages finding information on relationships like my own, like on shrinks4men where they talk about controlling relationships and how you struggle to leave them because that is how they have made you feel.

I can find all sorts of things that look like how I am feeling, and how I got here, but I suppose you can find a little of you in just about everything you are read if you want to.

I have lately found myself wanting my wife and missing her so badly, and have been struggling with how she appears to have moved on in her life so easily without giving me a second thought, making feel worthless and wonder whether I will be able to make it without her. I know what you may be thinking, what a wimp, snap out of it, she’s gone, you have your whole free life ahead of you, and your daughters of course who will see much more of you, and how could I have the feelings I do.

But the pain I am feeling for the loss of what could have been if I had just had a backbone early on, or had not let her or let myself get to this, has almost been too much for me to handle. I do my best to put on a brave face, but I know my wife can see straight through it, she is as sharp as a razor. My family say that I just keep going over the same things, over and over and over, with the what if's, and it's true I do.

She has been smiling a lot lately and making coffee for us to sit down together, wanted to watch movies together (i have declined), bringing coffee and lunch out to me when I working outside in the yard. She does all the housework, dusting, the washing, all the cooking, folding my clothes, and even remaking my bed after I have made it because she likes it neater. She has even changed my sheets from time to time.

All these things she has always done, as she likes the house just as she like it. I have always taken care of the outside and all the maintenance, which I still do. We have always been like this, and we are no different now. In fact, the only thing we don't do now that we did before, is sleep together.

Since we argued, or she shouted down at me a week last Friday, other than going into work last Monday and again today, she has been home the whole time, she hasn't been out over night. She even said to me the other day, that when we had the argument that Friday, she went to stay at her sisters house for the night. Why would she even tell me that, it seems really strange.

I tell you how it feels, it feels like her mind is still in the relationship without me in it, and she doesn't want me to think she is up to anything. I can't work it all out, and it likely to be just more games with my head to keep me off balance, because this is how she rolls, just as I am becoming relaxed to the idea I am coping, she does something or says something that puts me in a spin, before returning to her usual ways like nothing has happened.

I have had lots of thoughts of wanting the relationship back. I have a fear that I won’t be able to get through to the end and I can't even see an end in sight. You see, I know you say not to fall for what seems to be a change in her, and I try not to, but fall for it all the same.

She has made no attempt at all for us to get back together, and I know she sees straight through me. I am just trying to get through each day as best I can.

I told my wife we needed to get another agent in to try to sell the house because the one we have we have little faith in. I told her that we needed to sell it soon, even if it meant we had to take a hit on it, as it wasn't healthy for either of us to live like this. She agreed and we have another agent coming out on Wednesday.
Maybe she is doing the best she can in a very bad situation and just getting on with it. And I know that is the way I should also be looking at it and carrying on, but it seems so much harder for me for some reason.


I likely didn't make much sense in all that, but that's what I am like at the moment.

[katyk]

Hi John,

Am furious, I wrote you a long reply and then the computer kicked me off and I've lost it! I just wanted to give you strength to see this through. You said yourself in an earlier post that your life is so much less stressful now you can see your family and friends without worrying if you were going to get an ear bashing for it! What do you think will change if you give in? You may have your wife back but the problems will still be there. She does sound very jealous.
And jealous people are irrational and sometimes downright dangerous. Love should not be a shackle around your ankle - you know that!

Over the years I've read many self help books and they have their place but as you say can confuse you as most people have issues of one kind or another. The fact is co-dependency allows you 'to enable' another's behaviour. You are taking steps to rectify this and I am urging you on. Believe me, you will not regret 'moving on' but you will regret going back to the same old. I was once told the definition of insanity is repeating the same mistakes and hoping for a different ending (or words to that effect). Good luck hon.

[JohnPeel]

Hi, and it was a great quote from Albert Einstein and I know what you mean, because I can't help feel that it could be different if it was worked on, and at the same time, when I look back at our whole 8 years together, I have never been truly happy. I have always felt uneasy and not me around her, like I am waiting for her to have something negative to say about someone or something, or me.

She can talk on the phone to whomever she wants, and I don't have a problem with it and nobody should as it is a normal everyday thing to do. But if the phone call was for me, she would give me a sideways glance or forced smile as she passed. In the early days of the relationship, I noticed this action with her, but just passed it off, but remembered it. Over the years, and the constant glare or glance when somebody called me, became a real problem.
I eventually became a bit worried that the ringing phone call could actually be for me, and here comes the face. Towards the end, my family had stopped calling me on the house phone, and instead emailed me or text me. I would then wait until I was doing something in the garden or workshop and then call them back. How crazy is that, because when she came looking for me if I had been out of site for too long, and found me on the phone, her face would be even worse.

Now I know I seem to be getting off a bit with that example, but this is how I became over most everything. I got here over time, it wasn't instant, I was trained over time, to the point where I guess it was anything for an easy life, which has turned out to be anything but that.

The way I let her control my relationship with my daughters, was completely out of order by me. I fought it, I really did, but I was fighting not as the guy she met, but as the guy I had become with her, a different guy completely, a nervous coward.

I feel I have become a person who is so beaten down, that I fear being worthless without her, like I will never find another her, and at the same time I wouldn't want another her, who would.

It is great to be able to just get in the car and go to see the girls, or to anywhere I want, without her ending the relationship and hurling nasty sickening words at me because of it. At the same time, I do get nervous about just going, and I feel that must be because I am still expecting some abuse and I do sort of feel I shouldn’t be doing it without her approval.

What is especially hard now is that she has or seems to have completely let go of me, like I am actually worth nothing anymore, and this again I feel is another attack in an effort to bring me down or back in line. She may have let go, but I can still feel her holding on. It is a horrible and quite scary place to be. My family tell me this is good thing, and that hopefully she will find someone else and move out. I don’t quite see it that way of course.

A little about me is in order I think.

I am 6ft tall, dark hair, a good looking guy even if I do say so, I have travelled the world including trekking through the Amazon Rainforest, brought up in Australia and played Aussie Rules football, I have never had any trouble attracting women and I have never gone out of my way to get a woman, I was full of life and charm and humour, I was well liked. Actually I am making myself sick with all that crap. I am not that big headed, but I do know I was worth something once and not that long ago.

My family have said they have noticed a huge difference in my in these 3 months. They say that I was GREY before, hugely overweight and not looking after myself at all. I looked sick and they worried that I might have a stroke or heart attack soon. They said my eyes were always sad, and sometimes they could see the guy I used to be when I sometimes let out a chuckle over something hugely funny. My daughters told my mum that they were worried about me and that I wasn’t the same anymore, now that really made me sad.

My family now say that I am fast becoming the man I used to be. They say that I laugh a lot more and my face has changed for the better. They say I am coming back. At the same time, they are extremely worried about me. They worry that even though I show lots of good things now, I am also suffering a lot in a different way, and I am not feeling low for what I was and who I had become, but I am now experiencing loss of my relationship, and show fear of moving on and letting go. They say that all I do is go over and over the what if's, instead of the what will be's.

When I type all these things, I do see why I need to be clear, I do understand what I have to do, and as each day passes, I do feel I have made some progress to get past all this, so I know I am on the right track, I just need to be free to move on. I am trapped in a house with her that isn’t selling, she laughs and jokes on the phone to whomever, before telling me how wonderful her life is and how excited she is at moving on.

I agree that one day I will look back at all this and be happy that I am in a better place, and I just wish it was now.

With regard to your typing a long reply and it vanishing, I try to write mine in Word then copy and paste, because my giant mits have deleted some of my posts before. Just a thought.

Im now about to click the QUICK REPLY button, and after a reply like this, feel a bit cheaky.

[Wakeup]

John if Codependents Anon. is not your cup of tea then why not consider personal therapy with someone proficient in codependency? There are also lots of books on the subject that will help you. Google "Melody Beatie" and read anything by her. She writes the bible on codependency issues and why this developed in you.

I think that once you're out of the house and can start your cold turkey withdrawl and rehab from this shrew who does your housekeeping, you'll start to feel much better. Its pretty hard to get to the stage of indifference to someone you're seeing everyday.

Do your best to keep busy with other people and other things until you get that house sold.

Good luck.

[JohnPeel]

When I had an RTA in 2006, I was given the support of a cognitive behavioural therapist in my home town (where I will be moving too when the house has sold). I saw him for 3 courses of 8 seasons over these last years, and found him to be very helpful with regard to my getting over the accident.

I phoned him not that long ago, to ask if there was any chance I could get back on the list to see him, and he told me that now I live in another area, he won’t be able to assist, and that if I move back to my home town, or even say I have moved back and provide a local address, that I would be able to get back on the waiting list, which he said was very short and might only take weeks to get to see a therapist.

He said it might not be him, but therapy would be helpful. I outlined my issue with myself and my wife over the phone, and he said he knew there was other issues other than from the RTA, and that it is important that I address those issues as soon as I can.

I can’t get CBT where I am in Wales. So I will go to Cheshire today and try to register with a new GP and get back on that waiting list and hopefully get the support I need.

I also feel that this situation would test anyone. To be living with your wife while separated of just 3 months, to be feeling or letting myself feel tortured on a daily basis with her high spirits and coming and going all dressed up and looking a million dollars, while she knows and it is easy to see my suffering. I don’t cry or beg or ask her make a new start or anything like that, I am just different to see I suppose.

Lets hope I can get the therapy I need to get back on track, and the new agent tomorrow will be confident they can sell this house. Like you say, once I am away from here, it should be much better. I will be able to focus on buying my new home nearer my family and friends, and will take my 2 daughters on a lovely holiday, just me and them to say thank you for always being there and being supportive.

I like the comment “this shrew who does your housekeeping”, I get it, and it made me smile in the night when I read it.

Thanks

[woody]

This train be a moving forward J.P. Your train. Onward and upward. Your trip with your daughters will bring much clarity and help you realize, the strength you already have is all you'll need to do this... Forward, forward, forward

[JohnPeel]

I don't know quite what has happened to me these last 2 days, I have changed somehow.

Yes I am sad at the loss of my marriage, as this is the second time I have been married and the one before this was for 20 yearr, but that relationship ended because we just grew apart, nothing more, and out of that marriage I was rewarded by the two most wonderful of daughters.

Yes I am sad that my wife has become distant from me and appears to have moved on, but that's OK, I see it now, and when I have looked at her closely these last few days, I see a snarley face, and angry face, someone hurtful and nasty. Sure I can still see the person I have been in love with, but I see something else now, something I really don't like, and really feel I don't want.

I have had butterflies today at the thought of feeling like I can now move on and plan my own life, get on with my own things without feeling I have to ask for permission or feel guilty for leaving her in the house on her own to herself. I am absolutaly brimming with self-worth today. I watched a comedy earlier today, and couldn't stop laughing at the really funny bits, and found myself laughing at the almost funny bits too. I haven't laughed like that while she has been in the house since we split, and maybe even from way before that.

I am not on a high enough to handle her being with someone else, as I feel when she tells me herself about it, it will surely make me sad, in fact I am a bit sad at the thought of it now while writing this, but I am also feeling that this is just a pride thing, something that all men must feel, not a love thing, and so I feel I may be able to handle it better than I think, not to the point of wishing her well though maybe.

Im going to the gym in an hour, get myself a sunbed and catch up with some family tonight. I even spent a few hours working on a rustic dining table for my new house when I get it (I make rustic furniture), and haven't been in the workshop for weeks.

Thank you all for your support, I feel I am on the right track now, and although I feel I will come off every now and then, I also feel I get where I am wanting to go. I have no choice but to do everything I can to maintain the way I am feeling right now.

[katyk]

Brilliant post John, Keep on trucking! As you say you will have backward steps but each time you will move that further forward. Can understand an identify with your feelings totally. It isn't unusual to feel jealous of her seeing other guys. Same goes for women too! You may even wonder IF she is different with them? It will eat you up thinking they are a 'couple' enjoying the same things you once did but each time just focus on the fact you know the REAL her and its yet for someone else to find out. Plenty of people find it oh so difficult to extract themselves from toxic relationships. You are not strange or unusual! It is a tough rocky road but you know... once you get there, you never look back and even wonder why you didnt do it sooner! hugs and strengths zooming towards you.

[JohnPeel]

I had that weekend with my female friend from over 30 years ago, and yes I was warned it might not be a good thing, and although it didn't turn out a bad thing, it was still very strange and upsetting, and I did wish that I was actually doing this with a lover and not a friend. She had contacted me a while back out of the blue, and she told me how she had always wondered what had happened to me. I was the first for her when we were in our early teens, and we were together back then for 5 years before I took off to Australia when I was 21.

What the biggest problem was for the weekend, was that she hadn't let me go with regard to the chance we could get back together. I can see how it would be romantic and all for something like that to happen, but this was not going to happen for me, and I felt a little sad for her. I still see myself as a married man, and by law too that is exactly what I am. Separated and living with a spouse does not a single person make.

There were very awkward moments, like everywhere we went she would link me, and although it was nice and friendly, I knew her intentions were not to be be just friends. We went out for meals and drinks, and walked along the beach, and all the while I was feeling sad and guilty, like I was cheating in some way. And I felt sad that I was not with someone that I was enjoying a romantiic weekend with, and I felt myself being set back a bit.

I hope that she will be able to put all this to bed now with regard to her finding me again and us becoming something. There were other things too, like when I was sat near her and I was reading an email, she would look right at my phone and into the email, asking what I was reading. If I got a text she would ask was it my mum or sister texting me. If my phone rang and I was talking for a short while, she would ask if it was my daughters or mum or sister. All these things were too much for me, I felt I was with my controlling jealous wife, I felt a little angry about it, but didn't say anything to offend her.

It made me feel as though no matter who I may end up dating in the future, would this be the norm, am I always going to get what felt like the third degree, or am I just making more out of this because of the crap I have been going through. I felt like my wife may be just like everyone else and that it may be me with ALL the problems.

We did get on well for the weekend though, and as she was leaving on the platform, she said "I wont be hearing from you again will I?) I said of course you will as I still feel we are good friends. I will of course keep in contact but will not do something like this again, it wasn't right.

[katyk]

You are just not ready John............... You should have been honest when she said "I won't be hearing from you again will I" She obviously got the vibes but sounds like you chickened out of saying something like "I am still in a dreadful situation with my wife and not ready for any type of emotional/physical relationship. As for her queryng your texts/emails - that was plain rude! But also rude that you were checking them when you were with her? I hate people constantly looking at a phone when am out with them!

You will probably find many people who are just not right for you for one reason or another. You don't need to feel responsible for the welfare or happiness of them all! But I fear you do have to get more assertive, without being cruel. Saying thanks but no thanks is definitive and preferable to dragging something along which you don't want.

[JohnPeel]

I know exactly what you mean, I am still in a very bad place and I should have been more assertive. We have been talking now for a few months on the phone and we have even met up for 1 day near where she lives. She was supportive I felt, as I have told her everything about my situation and how I have been feeling, as she has asked and wanted to be there as a friend. At this time I find myself talking to anyone and everyone who will listen, and I know I shouldn't be doing that either.

In my weak defence with regard to the mobile phones, she was much worse than me with her phoning and texting, and nearly all the times I was doing mine, was because it felt like a good time because she was doing hers. But yes, neigher of us should have been doing that, I won't do it again I promise. If I am out with someone for an evening, even my daughters and they are on there mobiles phones, I tell them off or show I am not happy about it. But we were together for a whole weekend with people wanting to be in contact with both of us.

I agree too that this was not the right thing to do with regard to the weekend, I will be sure not to do it again until I feel 100% ready. It also made me see that it is going to be a very long road and my current mental state is all over the place. How did I ever end up in such a mental mess.

[JohnPeel]

November 17 2014

It is still really tough, but looking at her and listening to her every day is becoming easier, or I should say different. I am finding myself less and less attracted to her. I see the bad in her more than the good. I see how cold and seemingly heartless she is towards me, and I made a huge list of all the things I wasn't happy about with her and placed it on my computer desktop. I haven't made a list of good things, as those things though.

I am not going to say it is much easier these days, but it is different. She constantly tried to tell me about the problems her friends and family have, and when once I would react and tell her my thoughts, I now say nothing at all and don't even change my face. An example of how I would have reacted in the past would be, lets say she said "my friend (name) is going through a bad patch with her husband".

I reacted with an angry "Why should I care about other peoples relationships when WE are going through this". I get that either she wanted to get me to react, or she cared so little about our own situation that it didn't matter telling me (her new friend). Now I don't even react at all, because there is a huge part of me that really doesn't care and can't be bothered to be even interested in what her friends or family are getting up to now. Just like she doesn't care about mine.

She couldn't even text my daughter a happy 21st just a month after we split and after knowing her for nearly 9 years, and the same for my mothers birthday she couldn't even give her a card. She has completely detached from every person I know and has never once asked how the girls are or how my family or friends are, so I have now got into my head that I no longer am anything to do with her side either.

I have been out with friends a few times recently, and it has felt good that I still get woman approaching me and showing interest, and although I haven’t taken anyone up on it, I am now starting to feel that maybe I could. Maybe I could go on nights out or dates to have a good time but to not get involved in any relationships at this time or any time soon. At the same time, and after seeing myself in a lot of the comments, I worry that I might feel I want to latch on to someone too soon and end up in a worse situation.

I have to say though, I do feel much stronger these days. I feel different about myself, much better and much more optimistic about my future. I hate being here though all the time with her, and I have reduced the house price yet again this last week in the hope of getting it sold. I am also downsizing my huge pickup truck to a more economical car so I can afford to be out of the house more to see my daughters, family and friends.

I haven’t cried for a while now, and my family have told me how different I am. I told them I was thinking of getting a week away over the next few weeks to Egypt to just be away from all of this and to be on my own. They think it is a good idea. I am a bit worried my mind might be worse when I can’t just turn around and come back, but then the only reason I would be turning around I feel is so that she won’t be angry with me on my return, or that she won’t get involved with anyone while I am away as payback or something.

I know I shouldn’t be thinking like that, and I should be doing what I want to do when I want to do, especially now that I can. But after letting myself get beaten down over the years, I still feel partly that I am still in the relationship that I still need her consent or approval, and I am still nervous and anxious about doing anything that might make her angry. I don’t feel it anywhere near as much as I did, but I still feel it.

I hate that I am feeling that once I make the payment for my break, that I will regret it and maybe not even go, and I really hate that I feel she still has control over me. But like I said, I do feel different about her, and I have now got it into my head that there is no going back, and that I wouldn’t want to go back. I am free now, and I don’t want to find myself in this situation again with her in the future because I didn’t have the balls to get out when I could.

I suppose a part of it is that I don’t want her to be happy with anyone else, a selfish feeling I know, and my family have said that I should be wishing for that so that she will move out, but I don’t quite see it like that. What I see is her meeting someone else and making my life even harder by flaunting it in my face, to get ME to move out. I can only hurt if I let myself get hurt I suppose.

[katyk]

All perfectly normal feelings John...hang onto that! Its difficult breaking up and being reminded all the time! I think you should go to Egypt - well Sharm preferably at the moment! There are some great deals to be had. Pick a nice five star A.I and you will find it so relaxing. You may also meet lots of single travellers and women! Hopefully it won't be long until the house is sold and you can finally move on.....no looking back mind? You have to keep moving them feet forward bit by bit (keep in your head same old, same old....!) Try to quit worrying about whether she is going to be happier with anyone else? Who knows? Maybe yes, maybe no but stop thinking this is a reflection on you! You tried, you did your best and you have made the decision .....it is not for you! Good on you and stick with it.

[woody]

Yes John, hang in there. Get on that plane. You may be pleasantly surprised with the experience of getting away for awhile.
These things take time. Perhaps some space and distance will provide you with the insights needed to make your next move.
everything will be alright

[JohnPeel]

Thank you Woody and katyk for your help and support here.

What an afternoon. I really wanted to book my holiday, but I struggled like you wouldn't believe. I kept feeling I shouldn't be doing this, what will she think about me not being
around for all that time, what nasty surprises will I get on my return, what will she get up to. It felt like I shouldn't do it without her say so, which is weird because she would have never agreed to it even if we were together.

In the end, I said to myself, you really need to get a grip. She doesn't want you, and you don't really want her. She couldn't care less what I do, and why should I. I picked up the phone and booked it. I fly out on the 27 of this month to Sharm El Sheikh. I booked myself into the best hotel I could on short notice for 7 nights, the Marriott, all inclusive, a beautiful room with a view, and right in the heart of Sharm with a stunning beach.

Im going to look at this break as the start of my letting go of this attachement, this hold I feel she has on me. I am nervous about being on my own and wonder if I will be able to just enjoy it, but you know, I am excited about it, I really am.

Just a few minutes ago she came into my room and I was surprised, as I thought she was out of the house, I saw her leave, but didn't see her car come back. She said she heard me on the phone so went to her own room. She was smiling and said she didn't mean to startle me. I can't help but wonder what she heard as I was on the phone making my booking. Im sure if she would have heard me booking a holiday all hell would have broke loose, unless she did hear and doesn't care less and is taking this chance to have someone over. OH NO, there I go again with the thinking, I have to stop all that I know.

Anyway, I am looking forward to it and have always wanted to see Egypt.

I hope to come back a new man, or at least with a plan and direction.