This is more of a ventilation.

[warriormaiden]

Hello all!
I don't know if any of you remember me. I used to be here a lot, moreso, giving advice than asking for it, lol. My life has changed in the 4 years I have been gone, and I have been enjoying going out and just DATING. Which is something I hadn't actually done until this point.

This isn't going to be a *true* heartbreak thread. I'm not necessarily looking for advice. Though I did feel quite saddened about it, and I even cried, which is ridiculously strange for me, today I feel cleansed. And having an avenue to sort my thoughts and get what I'm feeling down would probably help me get some clarity on what steps I should take next. If you have any advice or pointers though, please feel free to share them! :-)


Like I have mentioned above, I have taken some time to date for the past two years. I have experienced some good guys, that after awhile faded away in to obscurity, and I have met a TON of bad guys. (Like, horror story bad dates. Just, unbelievably awful.)
About 5 months ago, I met a guy from a dating site. I was immediately attracted to his sense of humor and how normal he was. A day before he met me, he had just broken up with a girlfriend. He got with HER a MONTH after his wife left him for another woman. But he never seemed bitter or upset about it. And I LOVED that about him. We initially had the conversation about what is to be expected. I told him with school, work, and my responsibilities, I am only capable of being friends. He then explained that he was up for anything, but friends was more ideal because he was going to be starting grad school and with his improv troupe rehearsals, and his millions of friends (it seemed like) he really wouldn't have the time either.
Cool.
Shook hands. That was that.
We met up, and had a gloooorious date that we didn't want to end. And it was like that each time we went out. Just a beautiful time of laughter and fun and just loving being together for the day. We saw each other so infrequently, once a month, that it was like a treat.

So of course.....feelings started to come in to play.


It started with him first.
He kept saying, "You know, I like you. I *like you.*"
Then it progressed to, "If you were my girl, I would treat you like a queen."
Then, "I don't like how you trivialize us by saying we're 'Just *friends*.' We're lovers."
I didn't notice that I was falling in love with him until last month. We went to the movies. And the entire time we were just holding hands, kissing, telling each other we've missed one another.


But I did something really stupid about a weekend back.
We would tell each other about the prospects we've met on the website we met on. We weren't *together* so it was always easy breezy, but there was a silent understanding that if we could, we would pick each other at the end of the day. He would go on dates for instance, and then immediately call me after, give me details on what happened, and then end it with, "But I prefer you."
So I told him about this guy named Peter I had met on there. Nice guy, new to the city. We went out on one date. By the time of the incident, me and Peter are super platonic (what me and the first guy SHOULD have been from the beginning)
The first guy, lets call him Brandon, asked if I could see him perform with his troupe that Saturday night. He really just wanted to see me.


Now, I don't have a car. And Brandon lives across town. I was so desperate to see Brandon, that I manipulated Peter in to coming with me to the show.


How incredibly ****ed up is that?

I felt horrible the entire time. I felt so awkward. Though, Brandon and Peter got along well, and Peter had a GREAT time, and didn't see anything shady happening. But the entire time I was sitting there, I just wanted to go in to the bathroom and die.

The guilt was eating me. I felt so ashamed of myself (I still feel ashamed)
I was afraid that Brandon would get the wrong idea. Like me and Pierre were together, or that I was trying to make him jealous, or whatever else. We talked, and he assured me that he wasn't feeling that way.


I then went on another date later that week, with a guy I have been seeing casually. He's kissing me, and my body is TOTALLY freezing up. My lips are tight. My hands are in my lap. I'm not giving him an inch. And so, like you do when someone is attempting to kiss you most passionately, I began to have a chat with myself. Why am I so frozen, why am I reacting this way. Would it be any different if Brandon was the one kissing you, and not this guy?
And the answer was yes.
So I made up an excuse, I got out of that car, and resolved to tell Brandon about how I felt that Saturday, at a time where I knew he would be available.

Saturday comes....I'm sitting in my room, minding my business, not thinking about him. And suddenly, like a door being slammed in my face, I FELT like he was on a date. Which again, no big deal. So I texted him, sure enough, he had one right after his show, he said he'll text me about how it went afterwards. But he seemed a little odd.

I stayed up till 2 a.m. He never called or texted.

He then texted me around 11 A.M. to tell me that his date had just ended. He had a sleepover, he gave me details. Again, didn't really care. But that was until he said:
"Lora, I *really* like this girl."

:-|

My stomach quickly dropped to the floor, and I ended the conversation with a lame ass excuse that sounded WAY too happy.

I couldn't believe it.
I always felt like his own type of Jessica Rabbit would just waltz by him and he would be gone, because well.....I always felt like he was too cool for me. He was everything I had ever wanted. Funny, Smart, a College graduate. Similar tastes in music, silly, dorky, loved video games. Attractive, sensual, warm, giving, sensitive. Artsy, ambitious, VERY adventurous. Amazing in bed, wonderful kisser.
He even had a dark side to him that kinda scared me sometimes, but also made me more curious about him, because it was SUCH a different side to this super positive personality. He was everything I ever wanted. He was my 100% guy.

And now, he has a met girl who goes to his shows regularly, lives in his neighborhood, is in to the things HE'S mostly surrounded with. And he likes her more than me.
I have been knocked off the pedestal.

So I decided that I wasn't gonna see him anymore. It would be too painful.
So I texted him, baiting him to call me because I had such an amaaazing story to tell him.
We got on the phone, we're laughing, we're excited, the conversation is very lively, because that's how it always is. And then all of a sudden, I say, "I don't think we should see each other again."


He paused for what felt like, 10 minutes.
Then he started to stutter, he was very flustered, he sounded really confused. I explained to him why, what had happened. I asked him if he had anything to say, and he really didn't have any words to offer. But he did say this: "I was wondering how it was going to effect me and you, because I like her so much."

Cool.

I wished him luck, told him I never wanted to see him for the rest of my life, and got off the phone. It was really easy. No bitterness, no hatred, we even laughed for a minute.

Total phone call time: 13 minutes.

I then fell in to my bed and sobbed.

Why, you ask?

Because it feels like I am a place holder, or a toy to what is my, 100% guy.

There is something about me that tells men that you can use me, force me, rape me, make me uncomfortable for your pleasure, because, nothing will ever happen to you. Its all gravy. That's what she's for.

Brandon knew about my past and was DEAD SET on making sure that everything happened, on MY time. He made me feel special. He respected me. He HONORED me. And that's what really had me heartbroken about.
He honored me. He made me feel like I deserved it and that it was readily given without hesitation.
He would come to me, take a bow and kiss my hand and say, "Milady."
As corny as that may be, it sounded so genuine.


And I will never have that again.
I have met some nice guys. Guys that I get along with, they are mostly good on paper, and I have a nice time with. But there's something always off, I'm not attracted to him, or he's TOO nice, or he drinks too much, or he's too PDA or he's horrible in bed, or talking to him is incredibly dry and boring. 60, 70, 80 percent kind of guys. Guys I end up leaving alone, because I JUST CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE.
Most of my exes were 70% guys.
I feel like I am destined to live my life with a man whose "nice enough."
But I'm not attracted to him.
I space out when he talks.
Or I just can't stand to sleep with him, but force myself to, because 'what else is there'?


It seems like a guy that I tend to be more attracted to either leaves me to be with someone else, or he's decided that he has enough fun and he's done. A place holder. Fun for a taste, not for a swallow.

I just feel like my worth is questioned. That I need to examine myself. And I like I also should go on 20 dates in one weekend, which I'm NOT going to do.


Things learned:

I should immediately tell the guy if I like him. No holding back.

NEVER take another man out to see ANOTHER MAN.

I really do want a relationship. And this 'ha ha, I don't want a relationship, everything is just whatever' is juvenile and I should be honest with my feelings and not just pretend like I don't want that, because of what I perceive is what 'men want.' Or that 'I don't want to confuse him.'

If I'm not feeling a guy, then I just ain't feeling him, and that's totally OK.


That's was my weekend.
Anything else you think I should work on?

[Wakeup]

Because it feels like I am a place holder, or a toy to what is my, 100% guy.

Your whole problem is you start out as **** buddies and as time goes on, you catch feelings. You are also quite fine with being one of many, even to the point where you discuss other women and the dates that the man you have feelings for has gone on. That's really, really messed up... unless of course you are polyamorous in nature. You're not though, you can't even casually date (no sex or even making out) because you are so focused on the one guy who is currently doing you.

You don't actually know what you want so your dating M.O. is like a rudderless boat drifting around in circles. Figure out if you actually and eventually want to be in a LIFEmate dynamic with someone and if you do, then stop being a fvck buddy and don't do anyone until they are showing you in actions that match their words, that they too are wanting a LIFEmate.

You went in immediately saying you wanted to be his bed mate. I'm almost sure that the girl he "really likes" didn't say any such thing to him and she, more likely then not, knows what her end dating goal is and has kept up personal boundaries that she wouldn't let him cross. Something that most people respect in another.

I'm very curious as to why you continued to play the "cool Fvck Buddy" to this player-man once you started to feel more then just lust for him. Why didn't you tell him that you had caught feelings for him more then lust and what were his thoughts about becoming exclusive?

There is nothing wrong with you personally so get that shit out of your head the only person you have no worth to is yourself right now because you have gone about this without looking after your own best interests... The problem seems to be that your dating strategy sucks the big one, and not in the good way.

You quickly ended it when he told you he liked someone else. You therefore had nothing to fear by asking him how he felt about making the two of you exclusive. If he said "no" well then you could have ended it just as quickly. Or; If you were not valuing yourself or maintaining your personal boundaries and were silly enough to continue on knowing he didn't want what you wanted, then at least you could have made an effort to dial back your emotions and keep it to sex only while omitting date-like BS and bonding rituals.

Something else you should refrain from doing if you're going to be in a FB dynamic... Stop partaking in bonding rituals with someone you've clearly and early on told you don't want a relationship with.

[melancholia]

Things learned:

I should immediately tell the guy if I like him. No holding back.

NEVER take another man out to see ANOTHER MAN.

I really do want a relationship. And this 'ha ha, I don't want a relationship, everything is just whatever' is juvenile and I should be honest with my feelings and not just pretend like I don't want that, because of what I perceive is what 'men want.' Or that 'I don't want to confuse him.'

The statement in bold was your biggest mistake, among a plethora of other missteps. You were not being authentic with Brandon. Sure, you were open and honest and felt free to be yourself, but at the same time you weren't really honest with him about your feelings for him. How could he have known how you felt without you telling him? He isn't a mind-reader, and he told you countless times how he preferred your company over the company of other women and you still didn't choose him. I wouldn't be surprised if Brandon wrote into this forum, telling all of us that he felt like he was a placeholder for you. People do not tell people they only want to be friends, if they want more. That only happens in the movies. The only advice I can give you, without reiterating your own advice you gave at the end of your original post is this: Do not tell someone you want one thing, if you really want another. You should never talk yourself out of what you really want, because you will regret it. And I am sure you are regretting that a lot right about now.

Your options are two-fold: 1) tell Brandon how you feel. Maybe there's a chance he still wants to be with you and you can work on starting a real, exclusive relationship. Or, 2) Move on. Call it a loss and learn from this experience so that you won't miss out on the next opportunity you have with a 100% guy. The one thing I completely disagree with in your original post is that you can never find another 100% guy. Of course you can find another guy you feel all of these things for. Brandon isn't the only man out there capable of making you happy and being someone you are happy to be with. There are plenty of guys out there who can give you what you need, and who you are willing to give what you can to them. Stop being so close minded and believing that there's only one Brandon out there for you. Clearly there's more than one *you* out there for him, so why would you ever think that Brandon is your only (or even your best) option? You can't go back, you can only go forward with your head held high. Stop with the pity partying, pick yourself back up, build your self-esteem and empowerment back up and move forward.

[warriormaiden]

I'm very curious as to why you continued to play the "cool Fvck Buddy" to this player-man once you started to feel more then just lust for him. Why didn't you tell him that you had caught feelings for him more then lust and what were his thoughts about becoming exclusive?

Because I thought initially, that's what I thought I wanted. I was having fun just dating around, meeting new people, doing new things. But then feelings started to happen, and I felt conflicted because I had stressed so many times about how I didn't want a relationship. I didn't want him to think, that I was like some girls who pretend that friendship is all that they're going for, but then have ulterior motives. I should have just been honest from the get-go.
I feel like hanging with The Guys and hearing their conversations has messed me up in concerns of these sort of manners. Most of the time, I just feel so messed up. You're right. I don't know what I want.

And Wakeup, you're right on so many things. She told him that she only did exclusive. After one date, he took down his profile, and they're now a couple.
Where as, I have been seeing him for five months, slept with him, fallen in love with him, and I don't have shit but heartache.

- - - Updated - - -

Your options are two-fold: 1) tell Brandon how you feel. Maybe there's a chance he still wants to be with you and you can work on starting a real, exclusive relationship. Or, 2)

I texted him this afternoon. I explained to him that, the way I handled things, was not the best way that I should have done it. I sounded insane. And I shouldn't have just immediately jumped the gun, without giving him a shot at making a decision about me and her. He kept reiterating how it was no problem, how I shouldn't feel bad. But he was kinda skirting around the question. So, I asked him straight out: Did you choose her.
And he said yes. And it was just a matter of time before he was going to tell me that he couldn't see me anymore.
He did the whole, 'you're a great person', and yadda yadda, but it just felt like an insult by that time, and I told him to stop. If I was so amazing and cool, and if our dates really were spectacular, you would be with me, not her. And he kept saying things that made him put his foot in his mouth, and just, really made it worse. For him.
For some reason, I didn't feel as devastated about it. Still stung, but I can deal with the sting.

Everything was going smoothly, until the part where he asked about us being friends, that is, if everyone was cool with it. And I said, I really didn't want to hang out with him and his girlfriend. And then, he replied, with this:
"Can I get back in touch with you if it doesn't work out? Even if its just to be friends."
That's when me just taking it and being positive about it, turned in to anger.

So I told him that I was NOT going to be his secret friend, or the 'just in case it doesn't work out' chick. He said that wasn't what he meant, but he understood, I said peace, and he said Milady, and that was that.

How do I feel? A little emotionally sore. Like I've taken a fall off of a bike or something. But I'll be okay. I'm sure I'll meet another guy, who I'll go crazy for. Just gotta keep looking for him.
Thanks for your advice Melancholia.

[melancholia]

And Wakeup, you're right on so many things. She told him that she only did exclusive. After one date, he took down his profile, and they're now a couple.
Where as, I have been seeing him for five months, slept with him, fallen in love with him, and I don't have shit but heartache.

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I texted him this afternoon. I explained to him that, the way I handled things, was not the best way that I should have done it. I sounded insane. And I shouldn't have just immediately jumped the gun, without giving him a shot at making a decision about me and her. He kept reiterating how it was no problem, how I shouldn't feel bad. But he was kinda skirting around the question. So, I asked him straight out: Did you choose her.
And he said yes. And it was just a matter of time before he was going to tell me that he couldn't see me anymore.
He did the whole, 'you're a great person', and yadda yadda, but it just felt like an insult by that time, and I told him to stop. If I was so amazing and cool, and if our dates really were spectacular, you would be with me, not her. And he kept saying things that made him put his foot in his mouth, and just, really made it worse. For him.
For some reason, I didn't feel as devastated about it. Still stung, but I can deal with the sting.

Everything was going smoothly, until the part where he asked about us being friends, that is, if everyone was cool with it. And I said, I really didn't want to hang out with him and his girlfriend. And then, he replied, with this:
"Can I get back in touch with you if it doesn't work out? Even if its just to be friends."
That's when me just taking it and being positive about it, turned in to anger.

So I told him that I was NOT going to be his secret friend, or the 'just in case it doesn't work out' chick. He said that wasn't what he meant, but he understood, I said peace, and he said Milady, and that was that.

How do I feel? A little emotionally sore. Like I've taken a fall off of a bike or something. But I'll be okay. I'm sure I'll meet another guy, who I'll go crazy for. Just gotta keep looking for him.
Thanks for your advice Melancholia.

Ugh, I would not have been cool with him asking if he could contact you if things don't work out with his GF. You know him better than us, but that is a disrespectful thing to say. To both you, and his current girlfriend. Never settle for being someone's second choice. You should always strive to be with someone who actively chooses you every day. I've been thinking about this lately. About what it means to be someone's girlfriend and for them to be my boyfriend. I don't just want anybody. I want the right person. I want to be with someone who wants to be with me. Not someone who agrees to be exclusive because they think that's what I want, or because they think they should. They should want to be with me. They should want to be my boyfriend and want to have me be their girlfriend. It should be a privilege. That's what I want and that's what I'm aiming for from now on. You shouldn't settle for less than that either.

Of course you will find another man you will go crazy for (and in the good way, not the literal "crazy" way lol). You know you have a lot to offer another person, and you should be choosing people who have a lot to offer you - and who wants to offer it to you. I wish you all the best of luck in getting past this heartbreak, but I am confident that you will.

[Wakeup]

I'm sure I'll meet another guy, who I'll go crazy for. Just gotta keep looking for him.

I fear that You will only have this new person you find for the short term (like you've always had)t if you don't change up your modus operendi. Your dating strategy will leave any new union with a shelf life each and every time.

Don't go in telling anyone that you're okay with being a fvck buddy and don't settle to be one of many. Love yourself enough, know yourself (by now) enough to know that you more times then not catch feelings for your fb.

Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is (according to Einstein) the definition of insanity.

You can find a good partner and he can find you. You just need to play it differently. You, for sure, need to be ready to be someone's good partner before you'll succeed in finding him.

I sincerely hope you figure out your end dating goal before you venture into anything new. You have to know what you want in order to get it.

Good luck, warrior.

[warriormaiden]

Ugh, I would not have been cool with him asking if he could contact you if things don't work out with his GF. You know him better than us, but that is a disrespectful thing to say. To both you, and his current girlfriend. Never settle for being someone's second choice. You should always strive to be with someone who actively chooses you every day. I've been thinking about this lately. About what it means to be someone's girlfriend and for them to be my boyfriend. I don't just want anybody. I want the right person. I want to be with someone who wants to be with me. Not someone who agrees to be exclusive because they think that's what I want, or because they think they should. They should want to be with me. They should want to be my boyfriend and want to have me be their girlfriend. It should be a privilege. That's what I want and that's what I'm aiming for from now on. You shouldn't settle for less than that either.

Of course you will find another man you will go crazy for (and in the good way, not the literal "crazy" way lol). You know you have a lot to offer another person, and you should be choosing people who have a lot to offer you - and who wants to offer it to you. I wish you all the best of luck in getting past this heartbreak, but I am confident that you will.

It really surprised me that he would ask, because it was SUCH a D-bag move. Which is so unlike the caring, respectful, charming man I had known before. It just made me angry and I began to see him in a new way. Which actually helped me get through and finish with the situation. So I wish him all of the luck, but I think I might have dodged a bullet?

And that's what I have decided to do too! If you want me, you come and get ME. If you want me apart of your life, prove it. Like you said, it should be a privilege, and not because you feel like you have to or because it's easier for them.
Women are to be honored and cherished. Not used for the parts that they have.

The greatest, most beautiful thing that a woman possesses, is her heart. And the next guy that pops up should already know this.

- - - Updated - - -

I fear that You will only have this new person you find for the short term (like you've always had)t if you don't change up your modus operendi. Your dating strategy will leave any new union with a shelf life each and every time.

Don't go in telling anyone that you're okay with being a fvck buddy and don't settle to be one of many. Love yourself enough, know yourself (by now) enough to know that you more times then not catch feelings for your fb.

Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is (according to Einstein) the definition of insanity.

You can find a good partner and he can find you. You just need to play it differently. You, for sure, need to be ready to be someone's good partner before you'll succeed in finding him.

I sincerely hope you figure out your end dating goal before you venture into anything new. You have to know what you want in order to get it.

Good luck, warrior.

I am working on this, actually.
I have a date for coffee tomorrow afternoon. And I'm re-working my whole game strategy.

I feel like one of the things that makes guys lose sight of me being a woman with dignity and honor, is, I talk about sex a lot. And I usually talk about it on a first date, first phone call.
Not in a vulgar, 'I want sex' kind of way. But I can sit up for an hour and talk about what I have done, and what I have heard, and be completely nonchalant about it. Because, to me, I'm being an open book, and I'm just having conversation.
But to a MAN, that can possibly be perceived as I'm a hit-it-and-quit-it type of girl. So I'm working on that. I'm working on, not appearing to be so relaxed. Putting up boundaries, saying what I don't want and what I do want up front. If I'm not attracted to him, I'm not going to waste his time.

I'm really trying to come up with a different way of doing this.

[Date2Relate]

This guy sounds like he played with you and you lost. I'm sorry to say so, but he sounds like a narcissist.

[Wakeup]

This guy sounds like he played with you and you lost. I'm sorry to say so, but he sounds like a narcissist.

Oh for fk sakes. No he doesn't "sound like a narcissist" nor did he "play" her. She willingly went into this "thing" they had together as attested by this:

We initially had the conversation about what is to be expected. I told him with school, work, and my responsibilities, I am only capable of being friends. He then explained that he was up for anything, but friends was more ideal because he was going to be starting grad school and with his improv troupe rehearsals, and his millions of friends (it seemed like) he really wouldn't have the time either.
Cool.

Date2Relate, I'm sorry but: You do no one any good by blaming one while not educating the other about being the author of her own misfortune.