Betrayal?

[unbalanced]

hello!!!

I need to talk, that's a long story, if anyune is reading this, sorry.

2 years ago, i met Paul. He was my friend V's childhood friend. She told me that he travelled a lot, was rarely around and came to nurse his mother (she had a cancer).
V left her boyfriend few months earlier, and they would met often. She said that he was a dear friend, never considered anything with him, told me how fate would bring them together ( born in the same town, moved later in the same town...)
I assumed she could be open to something with him.

First encounter, they fetched me in a parking lot. he parked just in front of me, looked at me quickly, had a second look, pleased. I could tell he liked me!
He got out of the car, stood tall, smooth voice, introduced himself politely, still intimidated. Later he made it clear that he was really attracted to me, very excited and show signs of possessivness, didn't like seeing other men around me.
Everyone around us noticed there was some chemistry between us except for V

Me, i never rush things with men (bad experiences) i made it clear, he asked how he should proceed with, and told him clearly.
Still, he messed up, was in a rush so i said No. He was understanding and said he would wait.


I don' really know when it happened, but like a week later, i could read on V's face, it happened, him and her. This night he talked to me, said he reallly, really, trully like me but it was too late, he now has a girlfriend, he looked sad, trembling voice and shiny eyes,wished he met me earlier. he talked about a movie, said i should watch it. I did, like a year later, storyline: a man cheat on his girlfriend with a friend, lose her, realise much later that he lost the love of his life, no turning back.

Truth, they were obvously sexfriends ( late night drunk sex), kept their relationship secret, i knew, i'm highly intuitive. Things happened o fast, hi mother was dying, i felt he was in pain, i decided to not bother myself with them. He has some issues, i have mine. I kept being friendly but distant, we had few gatherings, always the same setting. He and V would be friendly, V had few sexfriends and was really open about it, she would be flirtatious with other men in front of him, he wasn't bothered by that.
He still hated seeing men around me and would get jealous, was even jealous of my gay friend. Would compliment me, always affectionate, expressed his regrets about not meeting me earlier....

V and Me, we are friends, she trust me, i'm the one she turns onto to get emotional support, advice...
One day, she talked about one of her sexfriend, he was in love, serious ready for committement ( obviously, not like he said so!!!) and they were in an open relationship ( he is so open-minded!!!) She, on the other hand wasn't ready. She suffered with her previous partnern still she said she was in love.

Months later, his mother was healing, time to leave. I was suffocating, i had to talk it out, yet i wished they would be responsible enough to reveal their relationship.
i talked to him, spoke my mind realized he wished to leave without revealing their secret.
Talked to V, and she admitted.
I was sitting, yet felt like i felt from a building. She was over the moon ( big project, rewrote her past life with HIM), felt sorry for me that i had been rejected, that he didn't like me...

Again, the truth, they were sexfriends, it was clear. V was blinded by LOVE, and through this filter, it became a beautiful love story.
suddenly, i was in the frontline of this story, him far away. I told her my feelings, it never reached out to her, she is flying really high, eventhough her relation wasn't so idyllic. She would travel to see him, came back disapointed, saying he would not talk. Emotional rollercoster, she said she wanted to call it quit, but never did ( smitten when with him, feeling useless as soon as they were appart)

now, i told her my truth more abruptly, without going into much details (didn't mean to hurt her).
Her reaction, i misunderstood him, i'm too sensitive, I should have talked earlier, I lied. She seemed betrayed, won't question his behaviour. Said that she won't talk to me about him ever, can't stand that i'm bad-mouthung her beautiful love story.

i'm really lost for words!!!
She had sex with this man, thinking i was very much into him, but he made the first move, is madly in love with her, she felt bad it wasn't with me but could not resist.
He never said anything to her, bad communication, and she won't tell him that she has made her plan ( wedding and a child)
I didn't talk much with him, but he told me more than what he told her ( they've known each other for almost 20 years, "intimate relationship" for almost 2 years)

I'm frustrated, this story weights too heavy on my shoulders!!
She is blind, and really, really, really high.
I don't know what to do about it!!
I have no contact with him. Since their secret was revealed, i got to meet him 2 times at some gatherings; He tried to talk to me but i couldn't and avoided him.
I still feel that he is interrested in me (pays attention to me a lot, always jealous)

I lost the guy and now i'm on the verge of loosing my friend ( Is she even a friend, when she behave that way). I got to bear all the responsability
What to do, now? Any advice?

[richiro]

ok.. so....

i think you have it backwards. i think the story and situatino makes much more sense to me if we assume you are the one blind. after all, they are the ones seeing eah other and flying to do it, having sex, have had a relationship. he chose to do it with her and get involved with her and not you. Even to this day after "admissions" the truth remains its them not you. and has remined about them ,not you.

there is a saying in poker.. that "there is a sucker at every table... if after 30 mins you can't figure out who the sucker is.. YOU are the sucker..."

i'm afraid to say those are probably meaingful words here. it appears to me that the "blind person" here is you, not her. As to the damage and what can be fixed - probably not a lot. you and "the friend' have been competing and not so good to each other when it comes to him. there is probably irreparable damage there. As far as being able to be with him and 'beat your friend out for him" - probably not happening. If that was what he wanted it would've happened a while ago.

Remember.. words are cheap. anybody can say anything they want. BUT ACTIONS NEVER LIE. Take away all the talk and look at the actions and its pretty obvious what's going on here. you are the girl looking in from the outside.. she's the one on the inside. that means you are out.

[unbalanced]

Thank you for your insight!!

I totally agree with you, she has the man, that's a fact, i don't want him either! It's just frustrating for me to be out there, in this position!!
No damage control either, everything is so messed up now!!

His actions are questionable too!!
He first tried with me, i told him to slow the pace, still tried to kiss me, i rejected him. He said he would wait, ended up having sex with V, both were very drunk!! Not like you can turn back time!!

They are friends with benefits, they were very clear about it, she fell for him and wanted some commitement, while she kept telling she was just having fun.
They only have drunken sex, only. Their rules: totally free, except she told him he couldn't have me!!
Never talk, she says he won't open up to her no matter how much she tries. During this time, everytime we met, he'd asked to meet more often, i never gave in ( i knew and no way would i get closer to him). He said he did not want to forget me!!
He would open up to me and talk freely, acts like he has known me for a long time. He once asked for my birthday, was astonished, just like his first love, the love of his life (she left him 8 years ago)!!
V has known him for up to 20 years, was having sex with him, knew the girl; she once talked to me about him, telling how he was badly affected by this break-up. That eventhough he never talks about himself, nor shows his emotions, he came and talked it out with her and her then partner.
I said he told me about the love of his life, she was really upset, had no clue this girl meant so much to him, has been saying that she can't understand it! He never said anything to her!! He tells her that he is not ready to settle, doesn't want to commit, that he doesn't see their relationship as serious... Of he is satisfied with her, it's still going on afterall!!
V thinks he has been in love with her from day 1, maybe for years, he just won't admit to it.

At a concert, a man spotted me for afar, flirting while getting closer to me, nothing disrecpectful. Paul noticed him, looked at me, and pushed him, told him to "f**k off". Paul is the cool guy, he never lose his control, yet he is bitter everytime a guy is around me!! He did say that he was really frustrated that it couldn't happen between us.
V was very showy about all the men she had sex with, would flirt with other men in front of him, he was never bothered about it. He won't even pay attention to her all through the nights!!

Last time i saw him, their secret was revealed. It was my birthday, V invited me, a surprise party!!! He was there, really nervous, he couldn't show his face to me!! He tried to break the ice several time, talked to me, i replied coldly and avoided him. Again he just watched over me all night long, had no interractions with V at all!!

He talked to another friend, Alice. She said something about V, he replied, she is not my girlfriend, we just hook up from time to time, we are not in a relationship and he is still looking for the one!

How i see him;
very sensitive, struggles with his emotions, a tortured soul. Looking for strong intense bonding in relationship, yet not able to let anyone closer to him. Clams up in his shell. Frightened. Too scared of emotional scars. He just travels to run away.
That's what i told him, he didn't disagree, he said, i hope you see me as a romantic guy!!
I told him i don't know him, that's i'd lose contact with him once he'd leave, he said stop saying that!! you know me, i know you. I replied, we joke a lot but not much personal serious talk. He said that's true, then started to tell me about his life, more on a personal level. I cut this discussion close.

Paul is a guy i met few times at gatherings, i didn't want to keep in touch with him ( did not give him my number), i felt he was messed up, wanted to avoid the drama. I decided i'd take time to know him. Ended up the drama queen who pulled all this things up.

My friends Alice witnessed all the story. She told V i wasn't lying, Paul was up to something with me. V is mad, she thinks i'm turning people away from her, that i misunderstood.

Paul and V have a friend Eve. She warned V about Paul. V thinks Eve is just jealous, she decided she won't tell her anything about them. Since Paul moved away, she would go see him occasionnally, he never came himself though. High on their drunken sex drive while with him, but she would always came back crying, bitter and frustrated ( no evolution). she said she won't tell Eve, she didn't need the "i've told you".
Paul talked about me to Eve, she told him to speak out and reach out to me, i don't want it.
Why would he do that? Why did he show up on my birthday of all days???
When i arrived at her house, entered the room, he was on the right corner, i didn't spot him, was clueless. I turned on my right, looked down the seat and put my coat on it, i notice there was a man, saw his legs first, but he turned his back on me in a nervous way. I looked up, did he really turned his back on me? I saw Eve, she saw everything and she had her wide eyes on him. I realised, it was him, just from her gaze!!! He greeted me still showing me his back, turned and said, "how are you?" with a nervous smile. Stuned!!
Said i'm fine, did not greet him back, stayed cold.
He talked to me several times this night, gave him a cold shoulder, he still came back. Said at some point You're still the same,...
Can't he just stay away from me!!!


I'm the only one V talks to, she doesn't like to open up about feelings, love... Apart from me, people know him as her sexfriend, she never tells anyone else that they are an item.

- - - Updated - - -

i have to say, i"m the kind of girl who makes men feel intimidated. Either they won't dare try to make a move, or they would be forceful. No in between.
They see me as a kind of Femme Fatale. All my friends joke about it.
I have many issues with men, and many friendships gone to waste over it.
I'm not that blind, i know he really is attraced to me, not just because he told me so several times, he pays attention to me a lot. Like he would flinched to my breathing sounds, comments evrything i say, do or just look. Show his affection through skinship (i never saw him like that with V, he is really detached), Whenever i dressed up, he is either overly excited, jumping, or won't dare looking at me and sighs nervously .

So i'm really fed up with it, again, same experience same outcome.
V says i'm really important to her, she says i'm bright, that i shine a warm light and doesn't want to lose our friendship.
I'm the one who is really feeling bad, i want to close this chapter, but it's still up there.
Of course, i'm a bit envious that V has it easy.

I see this as the struggles between what you can and what you want.
I don't want to put up with all this.

[richiro]

again.. you are the blind one here. sorry to say.

[unbalanced]

I know she has him, that's not what i'm after.
I just want him to stop bothering me!!

Back when he kinda rejected me, we only met at 3/4 nights out, with friends:
He told me about this movie ( the guy cheated on his gf, lost her, lived pitiful life realising he lost the love of his life)
He then said i wanted to tell you i really, really, trully like you... But it's too late, it won't happen between us.
I said did I asked you anything? Why would tell me that?
want to be honest and straitforwared, just like you.
Well i didn't felt entitled to anything, you're free to live your life.

He looked sad, almost crying.
I said, what's up with this face? You should be happy!!! Wished him luck and happiness. The guy was there to nurse his dying mother, he is an only child from a single mother, i knew he was quite unstable! I saw this coming and was fine with it!!! I never questionned them over their relationship!!

him: The thing is on one hand there is this girl, it's just the beginning, nothing serious but things happened, it's complicated. Don't know where it's going. On the other hand there is you whom i'd really wish we could make it, and i'm sad it won't happened. Don't know if i had any chances though, i just wished!! Said he should have met me sooner, that he was going through some difficulties at that time of his life.

I said, stop it, you're really a jerk to drag me into this!! handle your issue yourself, i already have mine. Nothing is going to happen between, i don't want this kind of story. Asked if he was telling me he'd to stay away from me!!
He said no way, i absolutely don't want that!
So i told him, i would be uncomfortable around him, if he felt so kind of attraction, he should stay away and focus on his gf.
He refused, said, i'm going to be frustrated, really frustrated but i'm used to it anyways.
I warned him, don't mess things up, i don't want to be dragged into this, would he do, i'd just stay away and erase him from my life. I said i have some experiences,and i know, the other girl is going to call me out for going after her man. That he won't have to worry about himself. i'd be the one to blame, even if i'm not going after him.

I'm not this kind af girl, i don't have to put up with all this drama, not like we know each other either. Told him attraction is superficial, it fades with time!!

I'm the only one he told about his gf. For everyone,he has always been single, he'd tell he was!! V would say he wasn't serious, he has always been a flirt, except with his ex-girlfriend.
We had few parties coming. Friends would always tease us/me. I had to tell my friend Alice to stop, that he had a gf, that i didn't want anything to do with him. Still like i said, he was always around me, i'm not deluded about that. I was the one who stayed away, i'd just greet him but kept away, while he still tried to get closer!! I only put up with that because he was having a difficult time in his life.
Him and V, noone saw it coming, there were ne connections at all. I was the one who told our friends, they said i was paranoid, he only had his eyes on me.

It was really uncomfortable for me, after a while, he wouldn't come to our gatherings,i even said i'd like to have more girls night out, so i wouldn't have to deal with him. just showed up on rare occasions.He'd tell me he'd like to meet more often, why didn't he met me sooner.... I never replied. At some point i decided to confront him, i realised V was really into him. I didn't want to lose her!
So i told him my point of view, feelings. I said i dreamt about you, you were naked in my dream (we were in a group, talking about life, philosophy,.. all naked) that got him excited, he thought i had an erotical dream with him. But it wasn't about sex, i always have those kind of dreams whenever some hidden truth has to be revealed. The need to show everything with no filter.
I teased V about him and he lost his temper, quickly apologized, then told me how he was thinking about my dream, us naked... As he wouldn't talk to me seriously i stayed away from him. A guy approched me, smooth words. Paul was upset, criticized the guy.
I then confronted V, and she told me they are soulmates, ... Later she would complains about him, saying he never says anything at all, no matter what se tries!!

V said she wasn't aware he tried anything with me,that's what she said, she is upset about it, She actually thought i was the one going after him, eventhough he asked how he should proceed with me in front of her, it was just the 3 of us. i said i always take my time, don't rush with men...I said to our friends that i felt he could create me some issues, so i'd just take my time, maybe the fact that his mother was dying, he was very impusilve too, ..

V told everyone they had to hide their relationship, didn't want to hurt me. Again, when V talks to our mutual friends, she says they are sexfriends, i'm the only one who get, soulmates, love of her life... Alice told her, i wasn't after him, that i'd say he was unreliable. Alice warned V, She told her at some point, she came to know that he had a gf, honestly, his behaviour with other girls is really questionable, you should not trust him. She told me later that she did not say my name, back then she used to say even if he had a gf, he was still obviously after me, Alice thought we matched, that i should not be bothered about his gf. I refused. I'm the one who draw the line. Not him!!
Others didn't know about his gf, would comments on his behaviour toward me. They went hard on me because i was so difficult to please, having high standarts!!!
I told Alice, actually his then gf is V. She said, that's f**ked up".

When he moved out.
We had a party, first time we met after the revelation.
I greeted everyone, went onto the kitchen, he followed me, i left the room. i didn't talk with him. When i left, i said i don't think we'll ever met again, so farewell...
His reply, of course we'll met again, i'm coming back!!!!!
He came back on my birthday??? which happen to be also the birthday of the " love of his life"????

Now, V struggles with him, but puts the blame on me!!! Won't question him, although she had been crying for more than a year dealing with his behaviour.
I just don't know if i can save my friendship with her!!
Don't know what to do, how i should proceed!!

[richiro]

how are you going to achieve having them leave you alone when you are so INTO their life and engaged into their life and keeping tabs on their lives and so involved with them?
no. stop.

you're being blind!
its you not them!

stop following them
stop keeping tabs on them
stop talking to them
stop communiating with them
stop obssessing about them
stop thinking about them 24/7

MOVE ON...

problem solved.

[unbalanced]

I don't care about HIM!!
I trully stayed away from him!! Often times, i was unaware he would be out there, still i'd be polite but firmly minding my own business!!
I'm part of a group of friends, if we have plans, she is here, sometimes he'd come.
I just don't want to give up on my friendship with her!! i never asked anything about him nor their relationship, like really NEVER. She talked to me about it, i had to tell her to stop and explained calmly my stance on the issue. Still she talked again, so i was more abrupt, gave her details.
Although she said he was not serious, unreliable, ... their friends warned her too. But now she blames me, said i brainwashed our friends. I really didn't have to say anything, they witnessed it!!

I know i come off as obsessed, i am, i'm really angry.
I have had many experiences in my life, cut some friendships over this kind of issue. I don't have many friends, i think it's such a waste to lose someone over a man!!
It's unfair, why should i lose a friend again?
I really liked our friendship, i'm really depressed about it!!

[MsCupid]

Have you lost a friend before? It seems your a person who has not so nice experience on keeping friends

I don't care about HIM!!
I trully stayed away from him!! Often times, i was unaware he would be out there, still i'd be polite but firmly minding my own business!!
I'm part of a group of friends, if we have plans, she is here, sometimes he'd come.
I just don't want to give up on my friendship with her!! i never asked anything about him nor their relationship, like really NEVER. She talked to me about it, i had to tell her to stop and explained calmly my stance on the issue. Still she talked again, so i was more abrupt, gave her details.
Although she said he was not serious, unreliable, ... their friends warned her too. But now she blames me, said i brainwashed our friends. I really didn't have to say anything, they witnessed it!!

I know i come off as obsessed, i am, i'm really angry.
I have had many experiences in my life, cut some friendships over this kind of issue. I don't have many friends, i think it's such a waste to lose someone over a man!!
It's unfair, why should i lose a friend again?
I really liked our friendship, i'm really depressed about it!!

[unbalanced]

hi:

That's a story my friends know.
my childhoodfriend, we were really close, she moved out far away! In our teens we never had issue over boy, we never went after the same guy. She liked to have boys around her,a bubbly teen girl who'd fall really easily for the boys, looking for the one. She'd be obsessed, possessive and jealous at that, she was really funny!
I'm not like that, i wasn't into boys. I like to read, cinema, passionate about dance...
When she moved out, she invited me at her place for holidays, she was engaged, with 2 young children, asked me to be her bridemaid.
I went there.
THere, it developped really fast.
I'll make it short, he raped and she helped him out.
I cut all ties with her.

The thing here is we hang out in the same crowd, all our friends have been involved in this story. It's not just about him, her and me; But how within our group of friends we should handle it. Our friend liked him, they thought i was being difficult with him, i don't trust men easily.
I've always been clear.
I'll get to know him slowly, he was impulsive, and i thought he could go after her too. Friends called me paranoid.
he rushed it, so i stopped it, said he'd wait, then told me he had a gf
I really wasn't bothered, i told him i'd stay away from him, and i did.
Still the way he behaved, everyone teased me/him. I lost my temper on a friend in front of him, asked her to stop bothering me. All he said was, let's have a threesome! Even when i said he had a gf, they wouldn't stop, saying either he lied, or doesn't care.
They all thought i was making it difficult for him, and wanted to help. I was suffocating, everyone putting pressure on me. I just wanted to come clean with him, her.
When V revealed me that story, i realised there were few things she was unware of, i said i don't want to interfere. She then told our friends, noone saw this coming, they told her to be careful, avoid getting carried away.
It was awkward, but i thought we could work it out!
Then she was depressed, and ended up crying over my shoulder, i was understanding, told her nicely, i've been meddled to this story too much for my liking. She should talk about it with someone else. She'd apologized, saying noone was supportive, neither our mutual friends, nor their mutual friends.
Up until now, we've been really close.
Again she felt bad, and lost it in front of me.
I made it clear, told her firmly.
Now she is upset, agreed that she won't talk about him with me. Promised me she won't invite him to our parties... without telling me beforehand, still she thinks i probably misunderstood.
She thinks i brainwashed our friends into thinking he was up to no good. They all witnessed it, and some apologized since then for being too pushy towards me. V herself was there all this time, it happened in front of her, she's just in her own world, kinda like ditzy.

We have plan coming up. A show at a friend's wedding. And we agreed to work on a dance show. There is a lot of tension right now, i don't want to give up on those plans either!!

[melancholia]

I have no idea what you are talking about at this point. Which friend are you talking about? Which guy are you talking about? Did your friend's boyfriend rape you, or someone you know? Because that is something you should tell your friend. It sounds like these people aren't really your friends, or you're not really their friend... I'm really lost here, so I have no idea what kind of advice to give you other than you should probably cut ties with all of these people since they seem to bring so much pain into your life. Like Maya Angelou said, "if you don't like something, change it; if you can't change it, change your attitude about it."

[richiro]

then why do you keep talking about him and them? hello.
again... it's YOU that is blind. so stop listening to yourself and listne to eveyrbody else on this one.
and yes you are obssessed. ask anybody.

let it go.
move on.
nothign positive here for you to hang onto.

if you aren't going to listen to anybody but yourself - then why ask anybody but yourself. if you ask, LISTEN. otherwise.. stop asking.

[unbalanced]

The story about rape is from my past as a result i'm cautious with men.

Here, i'm talking about my current circle of friends, Paul was just temporarly around and joined us.

During 6 months, V and Paul were hiding, no signs, i'm the one who assumed there might be something going on. During this time, V just broke up with a long term partner. She despised men, swore she won't ever be in a relationship anytime soon, had many sexfriends, was open about it.
Although Paul told me he had a gf, he was officially single for everyone else. During this time, he would do/say many things that made me feel uneasy. All this happened in front of everyone, in front of V. Many of my friends got involved, thinking i was overly cautious and uptight, he was such a nice guy...They wanted to help him out, so they 'd tell me to give him a chance,... I felt pressured by that.
At some point, it was unbearable for me, so i talked to him, then her. V broke the story,said they were sexfriends then talked about a beautiful love story with a secretive guy, who never talks (he only has his eyes for her...) . She seemed oblivious to Paul's behaviour towards me, i voiced my opinion about him without going into details, she disapproved, i said i wanted to stay away from all that. Our friends adviced her to be cautious, even their mutual friends told her the same advice.

Afterwards Paul said publicly that they weren't in a relationship, just casual hook ups.

When Paul left, they talked, she wanted to upgrade their relation to a serious one but won't tell him, she feared he would run away ( commitment issue), he kept telling he did not want to settle down...She is sure they are soulmates, said she'd make him commit... For 7 months she went few times to meet him, came back depressed, down, angry at herself. She felt she was a slave to this relationship, she has been talking about ending things up with him since he left, but she never did, never could.

V always says she is an aquarius, an air sign, she is "airy", needs to feel high. She is from another planet, her feet don't touch the ground, light-hearted girl. She also smokes weeds on daily basis, and would end up drunk on our nights out. She says she doesn't want to face reality. It is quite possible that she was clueless.

As friends, we reach out to each other, so she talks about it, we are really open, we share details. 4 months ago, she said they ended it, and she was in a deep sorrow, said she won't ever go back to him again..
She got someone to provide her cocaine!

Few weeks ago, they met, are back at it. New year, new start, new hopes. Still the guy tells her it's only casual sex, but she has high hopes she can make it happen. She's ready to tell her daughter that they are in a relationship ( he is also a friend of her father).

This time, i couldn't hold it in. So i told her that i really don't want to hear from him again. I provided details (few, i really don't want to hurt her!). She couldn't believe it, said i must've misunderstood... She joined our friends, they aknowledged what i said, they witnessed it. She was there, i don't understand how she never saw it!!
She feels betrayed by me, said that i was tarnishing her beautiful love story. She says she shouldn't have hide her relationship so she is at fault too. Said i mean a lot to her, wants to preserve our friendship, that we can work it out.
Promised me she won't share her story with me, that she won't bring him to our gatherings. I'm fine with that!!

Like i said we are part of a group, we have many projects for the upcomming 8 months, we meet several times a week. So i do have to see her on regular basis. I gave my words to take part in those projects, i can't back out. I don't want to distance myself from other friends either!!
At this point, i don't know where our issue is going. Don't know how i should deal with that!!