Girlfriend cheated??

[megvoh]

No, don't forgive. Doesn't matter if you "foolishly" still love her. She DOESN'T love you. Enough info to know that so that should be the end of you talking with her.

[TheEvilJester]

On an unrelated side note...

Hooo, I've gotta say I have really been enjoying your contributions here. I often find you and I seem to agree, but perhaps even more importantly, when we don't you always seem to be able to disagree so respectfully. That's a talent many do not have, which is such a shame. Conversations can be splendid when you agree with each other.... but they can be that much more rich and interesting when you actually don't, yet can still discuss it with the utmost of respect for each other and your thoughts and opinions.

again: His ex didnt claim it. I claimed it. and if i am correct then he IS doing something wrong. At least he is not doing it right - if you know what i mean

Actually, I think he did mention that his ex said that as well. I think he said that was the excuse she gave.

I do not understand. she went and got her desires met. I agree that this is despicable and ethically uncorrect. I dont however see it as psychopathic or as punishment.

It isn't the act of cheating in and of itself that makes me think it was an intentional punishment on her part. I don't have any forgiveness for somebody who would cheat.... but in some cases they didn't cheat maliciously, intending to hurt their partner. They cheated out of selfishness, even if just a temporary selfishness. It's more so some of the details specific to this situation that makes me feel like it was an intentional punishment and not just a "Whoops! How did we let this happen" kind of situation. The fact that she cheated specifically with his best friend..... the attitude in which she carried herself once caught (ex: trying to act almost like he deserved it/had it coming rather than to acknowledge she had done something terrible), etc. Things like that are why I think this particular instance may have been purely intentional on her part and deliberately meant to hurt him.

Would You tell your repeatedly sexually misused partner that they lack sexual skills? As a woman?

Fair enough. That certainly isn't a pleasant discussion to have. But, in a good relationship, the partners need to be able to talk about anything, even when it is an uncomfortable topic. But, for the sake of argument, let's pretend for a minute that she was just too uncomfortable with the prospect of discussing such a topic..... Fine.... then break up with the guy. Don't go behind his back and do something so hurtful, deliberately or otherwise, to fulfill your selfish needs. Don't get me wrong, wanting your needs, even your sexual desires, to be fulfilled ISN'T selfish.... but wanting them fulfilled by any means necessary even if it hurts somebody IS.


All that said, we definitely both seem to agree that it never hurts to strive for a little self-improvement. So, I do agree Gemini would be well served to work on his issues with intimacy. Again, that's something he should change IF he wishes to, and not FOR somebody else. So, I think we both agree that he could help himself out by improving in this nature, and I think we both agree that, no matter the supposed excuse, he didn't (nor does anybody) deserve such hurtful treatment.

[Hooo!]

It isn't the act of cheating in and of itself that makes me think it was an intentional punishment on her part. I don't have any forgiveness for somebody who would cheat.... but in some cases they didn't cheat maliciously, intending to hurt their partner. They cheated out of selfishness, even if just a temporary selfishness. It's more so some of the details specific to this situation that makes me feel like it was an intentional punishment and not just a "Whoops! How did we let this happen" kind of situation. The fact that she cheated specifically with his best friend..... the attitude in which she carried herself once caught (ex: trying to act almost like he deserved it/had it coming rather than to acknowledge she had done something terrible), etc. Things like that are why I think this particular instance may have been purely intentional on her part and deliberately meant to hurt him.

doubt it
i think it rather more of angry self defense. Angry that the guy didnt meet her needs and she was "forced" to do what she did perhaps. I dont see the motive for intentionally hurting him - especially regarding his back story (she knows that he is this way (up until now) because of circumstances he had no control over and because he did not learn to cope with the results in a way that is usefull to her). It doesnt fit that both the girl and the boy want to "punish" their best friend. I think its rather something of a justification. (not that it is any good - but i doubt its intentionally malicious)
There are very few people who are intentionally malicious. Especially to people they love.

Fair enough. That certainly isn't a pleasant discussion to have. But, in a good relationship, the partners need to be able to talk about anything, even when it is an uncomfortable topic. But, for the sake of argument, let's pretend for a minute that she was just too uncomfortable with the prospect of discussing such a topic..... Fine.... then break up with the guy. Don't go behind his back and do something so hurtful, deliberately or otherwise, to fulfill your selfish needs. Don't get me wrong, wanting your needs, even your sexual desires, to be fulfilled ISN'T selfish.... but wanting them fulfilled by any means necessary even if it hurts somebody IS.

agreed. perhaps she thought that breaking up would hurt the guy too. so thats why she didnt. (another thing that fits to her not being intentionally malcious). That this doesnt make it better is obvious

All that said, we definitely both seem to agree that it never hurts to strive for a little self-improvement. So, I do agree Gemini would be well served to work on his issues with intimacy. Again, that's something he should change IF he wishes to, and not FOR somebody else. So, I think we both agree that he could help himself out by improving in this nature, and I think we both agree that, no matter the supposed excuse, he didn't (nor does anybody) deserve such hurtful treatment.

yes

Hooo, I've gotta say I have really been enjoying your contributions here. I often find you and I seem to agree, but perhaps even more importantly, when we don't you always seem to be able to disagree so respectfully. That's a talent many do not have, which is such a shame. Conversations can be splendid when you agree with each other.... but they can be that much more rich and interesting when you actually don't, yet can still discuss it with the utmost of respect for each other and your thoughts and opinions.

thank you. same here.

[TheEvilJester]

doubt it
i think it rather more of angry self defense. Angry that the guy didnt meet her needs and she was "forced" to do what she did perhaps. I dont see the motive for intentionally hurting him - especially regarding his back story (she knows that he is this way (up until now) because of circumstances he had no control over and because he did not learn to cope with the results in a way that is usefull to her). It doesnt fit that both the girl and the boy want to "punish" their best friend. I think its rather something of a justification. (not that it is any good - but i doubt its intentionally malicious)
There are very few people who are intentionally malicious. Especially to people they love.

I don't know. You may be right. I just don't have a very positive image of human beings after the life I've lived. That and, again, the fact that this happened with his best friend.... not just any guy, but his BEST FRIEND makes it hit me as feeling deliberate on her part. I guess only she really knows, though. But, it is entirely possible it was just something that happened where she hadn't meant it to happen, didn't maliciously seek out to hurt him... but then just responds poorly to being caught doing something wrong. So, rather than react the way a mature, considerate human being would in feeling very bad and admitting they'd done wrong, instead she lashes out and acts like he is to blame and not her.

So, perhaps I'm being a tad overly cynical. I just don't really have a lot of sympathy for cheaters. ...Which now that I ponder it is kinda weird I feel so vehemently about it. I've never been cheated on, never cheated on anybody else. Not sure why I feel so strongly about it. LOL! I guess it just feels, to me, like a particularly egregious offense. I guess because I once believed so deeply in love (I no longer do) that it just feels like a slap in the face to common decency to me. Like the lowest of the low.

[richiro]

nope. drop both of them. he's not your friend.
you may want to seek counseling for your childhoos abuse to get help there - which will help you find the tools and knowledge to avoid attrating these type of people into your life who will do this to you.

sorry to hear about all of this. hang in there.

[Hooo!]

So, perhaps I'm being a tad overly cynical. I just don't really have a lot of sympathy for cheaters. ...Which now that I ponder it is kinda weird I feel so vehemently about it. I've never been cheated on, never cheated on anybody else. Not sure why I feel so strongly about it. LOL! I guess it just feels, to me, like a particularly egregious offense. I guess because I once believed so deeply in love (I no longer do) that it just feels like a slap in the face to common decency to me. Like the lowest of the low.

Oh - but you want to!
You are just afraid.
you are a very hurt person covering it up with cynism.
I would be glad hearing your story in another thread. We can work it out.