Dude: she does not want it
Deal with it
She is maybe a hurt person
An ambivalent Person
And whatever
But fact is
This is what she wants
And it’s not you.
Deal with it
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Dude: she does not want it
Deal with it
She is maybe a hurt person
An ambivalent Person
And whatever
But fact is
This is what she wants
And it’s not you.
Deal with it
How can you just assume that? There is no definite answer to this case. She has sent me many signals of still wanting me since we broke up. If it was as simple as her not wanting me back at all, she would have told me that already. You shouldn't be so quick at jumping to conclusions, especially if you haven't really participated properly in the thread so far
Then if you think you stand a chance go for it
Do it
Make it happen.
She obviously doesn’t
Some people are just born losers by their decisions. She made her choice and it was a loser choice. You ahould start to see bad things about her and you should be sleeping so late. If you cant then get on sleeping pills or whatever cause if this contunes it will draw you deeper in past. Good sleep will make you stronger mentaly. Perhaps hot temperatures woke up your hormones and it made you sensitive.
Try to be less lonely and less alone. Company will really help.
I don't think there is much advice any of us could give beyond what you are already doing. Sometimes it just takes time. Distractions help and are definitely the advice I'd have given if you didn't already say it yourself. But... sometimes there isn't much you can do but just wait it out and eventually you'll feel better. Eventually you will see why maybe you are better off without her anyway. And eventually you will wind up with somebody deserving of you. And... heck, you never know. Maybe that could be her down the road. But, as it stands now it doesn't sound like she deserves you right now. Not, at least, unless she can get her head together and decide what she really wants.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zachi [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
In time, one thing that MAY help you, though... is to realize that you can still have all those wonderful romantic moments you are imagining in your head.... with somebody else. You've not lost the chance forever to have that special somebody simply because she is gone. It is just that maybe somebody ELSE is that special somebody. Truth be told, it is very possible that the her you imagine in your head having all those romantic moments is not HER at all, but the her you wish she was. You could just as well be envisioning some imaginary girl in those same scenes. But, in time you will find somebody real and those scenes won't have to be imaginary any more.
Once again, best of luck to you.
Don't mind this.
Just bumping this thread to make sure it doesn't get locked, for whenever it's time to write an update on my situation
While waiting for things to happen you could read this book - https://archive.org/stream/RobertGloverNoMoreMrNiceGuy/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy_djvu.txt
Maybe you can relate to it.
Thanks, I appreciate you wanting to share a text with me. But no thanks.
I am not going to read something that literally starts out by mentioning the S-word right next to the word "love". I am very much against sexualization of love.
Sorry about my sudden negative attitude. I just can't help it, when I see something like this. It frustrates me so much... You couldn't know that... I know you are tempted to discuss this with me, but please don't. Or if you do, send me a private message instead, and then we will continue to talk about this particular subject in private.
But please, let's stop this RIGHT here, and avoid this thread turning into another discussion that never ends... If anyone has any comment in regards to why I am against sexualization of love, then you can send me a private message, but let's keep that topic out of this thread.
Expect an update in this thread, about my current situation in around 1,5 months.
By the way, it is official, that I am going to travel back to Kenya, and my mom will travel with me this time. It's a plan that I am going to meet with C, and have a long talk with her about everything. So in 1,5 months time, there will definitely be a lot of new info to share with you guys about how everything turned out. I'm travelling 27th of June.
I fail to see the whole point of this thread
You don’t change her situation
She doesn’t change her situation
You don’t change your situation
Talking about it seems pretty useless to me
I see your confusion.
In the beginning I was just desperate to get it off my chest I guess. I was in a state of shock, and I couldn't sit with it alone. I had to share my story.
Since then, I think I just kept this thread alive, because I felt like I needed to share my situation with someone, and maybe get some good advices on how I should learn to cope with my situation. I must say, TheEvilJester has been a very good fellow for that purpose, and I definitely want to thank him for understanding my intentions and being there for me throughout this thread.
Now, the situation might change after I have talked to C in the beginning of July, since I am going to travel there again. And after that, I will update this thread, so you guys can know how everything turned out - since I assume those who have read this thread are curious, and I am also eager to share my story
I hope this clears out your confusion :-)
Yes I understand that some people just need to talk about their problem without wanting to fix it
I get this on the logical level
But emotionally I don’t understand. I just think it’s weird. Sorry
That's okay, I take no offense. Can you please explain what you mean by "emotionally"? What is it that doesn't make sense to you?
You understand logically that you have little influence over the situation with C
You do not understand emotionally, that is why you can’t let go.
There are two ways of „getting it“.
If people really „get it“ they understand it emotionally and logically.
If you understand something on a logical level and yet don’t act on it, chances are you don’t understand emotionally.
My brother logically understands that it would be better to just make crap PowerPoints because that is what his professor likes, but emotionally he doesn’t think it’s better, so he doesn’t.
Writing this explanation I give examples, because the mere description will only make you logically understand the difference
Examples and a story make you grasp it on an emotional level
Why thank you. I'm glad if I could help even just in some small way. On a side note, I haven't checked out the book PC was talking about, but I do actually agree with you that I'm not a fan of the sexualization of love either. I mean, love should include sex, but to me sex is not the end all be all of a relationship. I won't go into further detail, though, since you didn't want this thread to go off topic, so I'll just leave it at the fact that I agree with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zachi [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
Back on topic.... I wish you the best and look forward to hearing your update. I hope it brings you a happy conclusion, no matter what that conclusion may be. And I hope it helps you move on in whatever form that may take. If fate sees fit to bring you and her back together, then great. If not, then I hope you find somebody special very soon. Best of luck.
I should never have publicly posted my reaction in this thread, when I first opened the link to that book PC Master sent me. I should just have sent him a private message about it, without voicing my opinion about it here. Please, everyone, from now on, don't mention the S-word in this thread. It doesn't belong here. If you absolutely have to, then send me a private message instead. Thank you.
Edit: Yes pcmaster, I am against using genitals in a relationship. I don't see the problem with that. Genitals are for peeing and reproducing. You can't "make love" with them, and you shouldn't. Please, if you want to discuss this further with me, then send me a personal message. This thread is NOT about why I am against sex in relationships.
OKAY, so I just wanted to bump this thread to prevent it from getting locked. Apparently, it went out of hand.
So now, I might as well just post a little update about my current situation, that I previously planned to save for later.
So yeah, I am going to travel to Kenya again. I've talked to my mom about it, and we have come up with a compromise that I am very satisfied with. I am not going to spend my entire holiday in Kenya, but I'll be there for a short amount of time, and get one chance to meet with C and talk to her.
And by the way, I can still confirm that C has something for me. Yes, it still says on facebook that she is in a relationship with S, but she recently tried to call me on WhatsApp, while I had to ignore her call, and calmly explain to her, that I wouldn't want to talk to her, and be reminded that she belongs to someone else. I told her, that if she'd want to see me, she would have to break up with S first. I haven't heard from her since. But I can tell, that she thinks about me, and she definitely wants to see me. The real question is: How much does she really want this? Will she ever reach a point where she makes up her mind about leaving S, to be with me? Will she ever truly realize the damage she has done, and do what she needs to do, to make things good again, and convince me that she deserves my love again? I guess I will find out, when I get to see her again in Kenya. But as previously mentioned, no matter what she says, I will not just be naive and jump right into a relationship with her again. If she's telling me that she's serious about me, then she needs to prove it over time. First she needs to break up with S, and let it say "single" on her profile. Then she needs to remain single for 3 months, to prove to me that it is truly over between her and S. I know, that S would definitely insist that their relationship is official on facebook, if they are together, so following up on her facebook relationship status, is all I need to do, to know if she can prove her loyalty to me. It might seem like a long time for her having to wait for 3 months, but she must understand that she should be lucky even to be given the chance to get back with me, after betraying me not once, but twice. If she truly loves me, she should also be able to wait, and receive her reward with patience... And I will even agree to be a passive friend to her meanwhile...
So here is the plan:
27th of June - I travel to Kenya, and I meet with my host on arrival the 28th - the same guy as the previous times I have stayed a Kenya. A very helpful and great man to have by my side, living with his wife and children.
2nd of July My mom will arrive too, but she will stay at a hotel. I have promised my mom not to try and meet with C at all, or arrange anything until my mom arrives too.
Then, together with my mom, me and my host will talk to C's mom about how I want to arrange a meeting with C, where I can get to talk to her about our past together, and we can sort out our things, and all of that stuff. The good thing here is, that C's mom really likes me, and she hates S. Last time I was in Kenya, she didn't allow S to get near her home. So if she can get C to come to her home one day, then I will be safe to go there and talk to C. My mom also want this to happen on our last day in Kenya, so that if S finds out somehow, I will already be gone, to minimize the risk.
Meanwhile I will hopefully have a lot of fun, and work on some documentary projects with some of my other Kenyan friends. So it won't be all about C...
9th of July Me and my mom will travel from Kenya to Zanzibar and stay there for the next 2 weeks (an island in Tanzania)
After talking to C, no matter the outcome, I will agree to be her friend again, and stay in touch with her on the phone.
24th of July I will be back home
This is the plan, and I will probably update this thread, and explain everything that happened, after my vacation.
* It could be, that C will tell me that she's happy to be with S, and that I would have to move on. It will hurt, but if she can tell me that with her own words in private without the influence of S or anyone else that could prevent her from speaking from her own heart, I will have to accept it and move on. Although... I don't think I can ever accept C loving a guy who is rude to everyone and especially me... But there's a difference between accepting and respecting. If that's what she wants, I will respect her decision, but never truly accept it inside... But I will eventually move on.
* Or maybe (which is the most likely outcome) C will keep my hope alive, and tell me that she wants to get back with me. But then this will go on for long, and I will eventually see if she really means it, or not...
Im against selling sex too, but book is not sexualising love. Read it for hours and word sex was mentioned maybe 2-3 times.
Anyway OP is against using genitals in relationship. So thats the real problem here, not some random girl from the past.
OKAY, so I just wanted to bump this thread to prevent it from getting locked. Apparently, it went out of hand.
So now, I might as well just post a little update about my current situation, that I previously planned to save for later.
So yeah, I am going to travel to Kenya again. I've talked to my mom about it, and we have come up with a compromise that I am very satisfied with. I am not going to spend my entire holiday in Kenya, but I'll be there for a short amount of time, and get one chance to meet with C and talk to her.
And by the way, I can still confirm that C has something for me. Yes, it still says on facebook that she is in a relationship with S, but she recently tried to call me on WhatsApp, while I had to ignore her call, and calmly explain to her, that I wouldn't want to talk to her, and be reminded that she belongs to someone else. I told her, that if she'd want to see me, she would have to break up with S first. I haven't heard from her since. But I can tell, that she thinks about me, and she definitely wants to see me. The real question is: How much does she really want this? Will she ever reach a point where she makes up her mind about leaving S, to be with me? Will she ever truly realize the damage she has done, and do what she needs to do, to make things good again, and convince me that she deserves my love again? I guess I will find out, when I get to see her again in Kenya. But as previously mentioned, no matter what she says, I will not just be naive and jump right into a relationship with her again. If she's telling me that she's serious about me, then she needs to prove it over time. First she needs to break up with S, and let it say "single" on her profile. Then she needs to remain single for 3 months, to prove to me that it is truly over between her and S. I know, that S would definitely insist that their relationship is official on facebook, if they are together, so following up on her facebook relationship status, is all I need to do, to know if she can prove her loyalty to me. It might seem like a long time for her having to wait for 3 months, but she must understand that she should be lucky even to be given the chance to get back with me, after betraying me not once, but twice. If she truly loves me, she should also be able to wait, and receive her reward with patience... And I will even agree to be a passive friend to her meanwhile...
So here is the plan:
27th of June - I travel to Kenya, and I meet with my host on arrival the 28th - the same guy as the previous times I have stayed a Kenya. A very helpful and great man to have by my side, living with his wife and children.
2nd of July My mom will arrive too, but she will stay at a hotel. I have promised my mom not to try and meet with C at all, or arrange anything until my mom arrives too.
Then, together with my mom, me and my host will talk to C's mom about how I want to arrange a meeting with C, where I can get to talk to her about our past together, and we can sort out our things, and all of that stuff. The good thing here is, that C's mom really likes me, and she hates S. Last time I was in Kenya, she didn't allow S to get near her home. So if she can get C to come to her home one day, then I will be safe to go there and talk to C. My mom also want this to happen on our last day in Kenya, so that if S finds out somehow, I will already be gone, to minimize the risk.
Meanwhile I will hopefully have a lot of fun, and work on some documentary projects with some of my other Kenyan friends. So it won't be all about C...
9th of July Me and my mom will travel from Kenya to Zanzibar and stay there for the next 2 weeks (an island in Tanzania)
After talking to C, no matter the outcome, I will agree to be her friend again, and stay in touch with her on the phone.
24th of July I will be back home
This is the plan, and I will probably update this thread, and explain everything that happened, after my vacation.
* It could be, that C will tell me that she's happy to be with S, and that I would have to move on. It will hurt, but if she can tell me that with her own words in private without the influence of S or anyone else that could prevent her from speaking from her own heart, I will have to accept it and move on. Although... I don't think I can ever accept C loving a guy who is rude to everyone and especially me... But there's a difference between accepting and respecting. If that's what she wants, I will respect her decision, but never truly accept it inside... But I will eventually move on.
* Or maybe (which is the most likely outcome) C will keep my hope alive, and tell me that she wants to get back with me. But then this will go on for long, and I will eventually see if she really means it, or not...
I think it only gets locked if there are no posts within a 30 day period, so you don't necessarily have to bump it this frequently. Just approximately once a month if there was no other activity on your thread.
Anyway, it sounds like you have a good plan outlined. You know from my previous responses that it isn't necessarily what I would personally recommend. But, given the way you wanted to proceed, given what you want (which is that you want to leave the option open for her to come back) I think you have a good plan outlined. It is maybe even a really good idea to meet with her on the last day you are going to be there. That way, as you mentioned yourself, if S WAS going to try to cause any crap with you because of it, you'd already be gone. Hopefully he'd not cause any drama anyway, but this way at least you avoid the issue. I would GENERALLY not suggest going behind somebody's back like this. Under normal circumstances I'd suggest C should at least be honest with S about the conversation she needs/wants to have with you. But, this may be a situation where discretion is better given the concern of him possibly doing something unsafe.
Best of luck to you. I look forward to hearing more details after your discussion with her. Since it seems to be what you want, then for your sake I hope she finally realizes her mistake and begins to take actions to remove S's harmful influence from her life and to begin to find her way back to you. Good luck.
I kind of wanted not to update this thread until after my vacation, but I feel like these news are too big not to share!
So long story short: S and C broke up
Here's what happened, and how I found out. Two days ago, I was on facebook as usual, when I was notified that C had liked one of my recent posts, where I had posted some pictures from my job as a child caretaker, where the kids are playing with my dreadlocks. Furthermore, she had pressed "love" to a birthday greeting I posted on her mom's timeline, that included a picture, from when I was in Kenya, celebrating my own birthday, and her mom gave me a necklace.
It made me check her account immediately, and I noticed how it now only said "in a relationship" in her status, and not "in a relationship with S". I checked S's facebook, and the same change had happened. Then I noticed that C and S was no longer friends on facebook, so it made me realize that the relationship status was changed, since you can only be in a tagged relationship with one of your facebook friends. I then checked WhatsApp, and S used to have a couple picture there, but it was changed to a picture of himself only, like 5 minutes ago at the time I checked. On top of that, I had also noticed how S didn't like or love any of C's new pictures of herself she posted recently on her facebook about a week ago (week ago... Throws hat) (meme joke... Anyways moving on), which I found quite odd, considering he always likes them.
So I was maybe 65% sure they broke up, and 35% that they just had a few temporary problems in their relationship... But then yesterday, C unliked and reliked my pictures from my job as a caretaker, so I played along and unloved and reloved her profile picture...
Then yesterday evening, one of our mutual friends from Kenya who knows both me and C very well, told me he had some message from C. I asked him what it was, but he didn't reply...
Before going to bed yesterday, I decided to send this to C anyway:
"Hey C! Did you break up with S? I see you removed your friendship with him on facebook, but it still says "in a relationship" on your profile, so I am not sure... But if it's true, and you still want me back, I just want to let you know that it's still possible. Just remember, you betrayed me and broke my heart twice, so don't expect it to be easy. If you truly want this, then you need to change your status to "single", stay away from S for good, and have the patience it takes to convince me, that it is truly over between you two. Because I am NOT taking a chance again, and get my heart broken again. Be single for long enough to convince me, and my heart is yours.
I will be in Kenya in July, and I will let you know when I am there, so we can meet and talk about everything at your mom's place. I have a lot of questions about our past, and a lot of things I want to clearify with you. This will be your chance to convince me, if you still want me back
See you soon! Zach"
This morning, our mutual friend from Kenya finally replied with:
"C misses you, and since you went, she keeps thinking about you. And she wants to move to Nairobi (capital city of Kenya) to avoid S. She still loves you, but she doesn't know how to tell you, and it hurts her how she made you cry. She wants to apologize a lot."
Now, the day I was waiting for has finally arrived. But for some reason, I am not actually as happy as I thought I would be. And I think it's because of how sceptical I am. What happens now reminds me of the same story I was told when I arrived in Kenya last time. C also said a lot of bad things about S, and she sounded very confident about not wanting to have anything to do with S anymore. She managed to fool all of us, into believing her, but in reality, only a few weeks passed, and I found out that they were still together. It seems like the same story is going on now. She wants to move to a different town to avoid S, she is very apologetic, she misses me... And that's nice to know. But seriously, who moves out of town, just because of a broken relationship? Is this some sort of an attempt at making me believe her, or is she seriously considering to move? By the way, I hope she doesn't move, because she needs to be an independent woman, and not worry about her ex, just because he lives in the same town. That's ridiculous... If she doesn't want him, she shouldn't bother about him... But S shouldn't stop her from living there!
Anyways, I have learned not to be naive. There's still a likelihood that within a couple of weeks, C and S will be back together again. I have heard the story before about how they break up, get back together, break up, get back together, etc. And it always seems so dramatic, but considering how C has gone through being beaten by S, and STILL stayed with him in the past, I am far from convinced yet... But who knows? Let's hope that THIS time, she has learned something. She finally sees it. She finally knows how to put an end to this once and for all.
So what I was thinking is, I want to give it 3 months, where I am only her friend. And then if she is still single, and there are no signs of S having an influence in her life after 3 months, then we can progress. I talked to my friend about this idea in Denmark, before they broke up, and she thought 3 months sounded like a lot. But I feel like it's what it will take to make me comfortable engaging in a new relationship with her, without worrying about being betrayed again...
But I don't know... What do you guys think? Is it too long to insist she waits, or is it fair?
Well, that is at least a good start. Who knows if the breakup will last, but couples who break up and get back together all the time (as it seems you said they do) almost never last. Inevitably the break up almost always becomes permanent at some point. So, if nothing else this says that most likely in time the two of them will be a thing of the past for good.
Honestly, I would have told you (if you hadn't already reached out to her) not to bother reaching out to her yet. Give her time to come to you first. You've already shared with her that there could still be a window for you two to get back together. You even shared with her how that would have to happen. But yet now the moment you hear they supposedly broke up you are immediately reaching out to her and reminding her of all that again? It could be making you look desperate when I am sure that isn't your intention.
And, don't get me wrong. I 100% understand that temptation. You want closure. Whether that comes in the form of you two getting back together, or you two parting ways for good remains to be seen... But either way you at least want to know so you can move on with your life. I 100% understand that. But, sometimes in life you can't rush things. She JUST broke up with him... and from your own knowledge of their history, sometimes they break up and then get back together.
Who even knows if they will stay broken up this time? Give it time. When you make your trip, I'd say still reach out to her to see if she wants to meet up because you were going to do that anyway. So, why would this change that? But, other than that I would personally not reach out to her at all. She already knows she has not burned that bridge with you yet. She knows she'd have work ahead of her to get back to you if she wants. So, let her decide if she wants.
The other advice I'd offer for if she DOES decide she wants to win you back... Take it all as it comes. Don't constantly remind her "If we are going to get back together, I need XYZ and this and that." You've shared that already. If things are moving too fast and you don't feel comfortable enough yet that she has earned back your trust, I'd more recommend saying something like "I just need more time. I'm not there yet. But I have been really enjoying our time together. If it all continues to go as well I could see us getting there soon."
If she actually decides to try to win you back, the last thing you want to do is constantly remind her of how she did you wrong. Constantly remind her of how she needs to win you back in the first place. If you see she's putting in a sincere effort, then just give her the chance to do that.
On the other hand, if she decides not to try to win you back, then I would say that is your chance to let go of her once and for all. I hope it doesn't have to come to that since it seems you want her to win you back. But, you deserve somebody who will appreciate you. If that can't be her, then it will be somebody else some day.
Best of luck to you either way.
(Small update: ...Both of their facebook profiles now say "Single", and her hometown has been changed to Nairobi... The breakup seems very serious this time...)
Once again, thanks for sharing your point of view. You have some good points there... Some people are way too optimistic and naive, and other people are just like "Forget her and move on". I really appreciate how you're not that small-minded, and you always see the different opportunities.
However, just to make my way of seeing things a bit more clear...
Imagine a situation where your closest friend, or maybe your sister has gotten an alcohol addiction. So they have been on the wrong path for long, drinking from day to night, drinking to solve their problems etc. Now finally they quit, and they are on the right path. So you want to cheer for them. You want to support them, and keep reminding them that they are on the right path, and motivate them to stay there.
I kind of feel like this, according to C. Afterall, she is my friend, and I do not only wish for her to be with me, but also to not be with a guy who treats her wrong, and that everybody thinks of as a jerk. As a friend of C, I am really happy that she is out of that relationship, and therefore, it's difficult for me to play hard-to-get and pretend that I'm like "meh...", now that she actually 'quit' her "addiction" to S.
Another reason, I decided to remind her that she still had a chance with me, was because last time I told her something similar, I insisted that she should break up with S "now" if she wanted to get back with me, or else she would lose her chance. And since it took her 1,5 months to do so, she might think that all hope was lost. So I just wanted to make sure she knew...
It's difficult not to get soft, when you still have a soft spot for someone in your heart, but I don't think I failed at making her learn her lesson. She had to deal with not being able to talk to me since February, and furthermore, she's going to accept only being my friend for the next 3 months-time, in order to regain my full trust in her, which is hopefully going to teach her something...
...
Anyways, I will take your advice into consideration as I progress, and travel there again. Of course, I can't promise I will follow the advice you give me, since it's my decision what I choose to do in the end, but nonetheless, I will consider them, and keep your words in the back of my head
- - - Updated - - -
(Small update: ...Both of their facebook profiles now say "Single", and her hometown has been changed to Nairobi... The breakup seems very serious this time...)
Once again, thanks for sharing your point of view. You have some good points there... Some people are way too optimistic and naive, and other people are just like "Forget her and move on". I really appreciate how you're not that small-minded, and you always see the different opportunities.
However, just to make my way of seeing things a bit more clear...
Imagine a situation where your closest friend, or maybe your sister has gotten an alcohol addiction. So they have been on the wrong path for long, drinking from day to night, drinking to solve their problems etc. Now finally they quit, and they are on the right path. So you want to cheer for them. You want to support them, and keep reminding them that they are on the right path, and motivate them to stay there.
I kind of feel like this, according to C. Afterall, she is my friend, and I do not only wish for her to be with me, but also to not be with a guy who treats her wrong, and that everybody thinks of as a jerk. As a friend of C, I am really happy that she is out of that relationship, and therefore, it's difficult for me to play hard-to-get and pretend that I'm like "meh...", now that she actually 'quit' her "addiction" to S.
Another reason, I decided to remind her that she still had a chance with me, was because last time I told her something similar, I insisted that she should break up with S "now" if she wanted to get back with me, or else she would lose her chance. And since it took her 1,5 months to do so, she might think that all hope was lost. So I just wanted to make sure she knew...
It's difficult not to get soft, when you still have a soft spot for someone in your heart, but I don't think I failed at making her learn her lesson. She had to deal with not being able to talk to me since February, and furthermore, she's going to accept only being my friend for the next 3 months-time, in order to regain my full trust in her, which is hopefully going to teach her something...
...
Anyways, I will take your advice into consideration as I progress, and travel there again. Of course, I can't promise I will follow the advice you give me, since it's my decision what I choose to do in the end, but nonetheless, I will consider them, and keep your words in the back of my head
- - - Updated - - -
Ah sh.. LoveForum.net is so slow, I lost my patience and accidentally posted the same message twice. Sorry about that. My previous message is only half as long, because it repeats itself half way through
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Ah sh.. LoveForum.net is so slow, I lost my patience and accidentally posted the same message twice. Sorry about that. My previous message is only half as long, because it repeats itself half way through
I think you just want to get anything you can. Despite that you wasnt her first choice and she choosed other guy instead of you. You waited like a beta male all this time while you could have experienced more than ever before with girls in new relationship. Okay now when her plan A is failed she could turn to you - her plan B. But funny thing is that it could actually work for you two. Cause you re damn stalker and wont leave her alone anyway.
Me being a stalker? Haha...
I think you haven't followed up on my story from the beginning, pcmaster, because your interpretation of this is quite off.
She's obviously more desperate to be with me, than I am to be with her. Although I truly want her back in my life, I also want to feel safe about accepting her again as a girlfriend, by waiting until she has proved her loyalty, by remaining single for a while first.
If she could have it the way she wanted, then we would be back together already now. She's very much into me, and I am actually the one who's planning to friendzone her, until I feel like I am ready to trust her and accept her wish of being her boyfriend again.
I think you should read this thread properly, before being too quick to draw conclusions
I read your last post and you didnt mention any of this. You keep changing your mind.
Thank you. I am happy if I am able to help in any way, even if just to help you think things through yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zachi [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
And what you mention is actually something I usually try to do in most of these discussions. Often times I do have my own opinion. I mean, as I've said with you, I don't disagree with the others who have said you'd be better off just letting her go completely. I just know that sometimes you can't help what/who you want, and if you would really much rather give her the chance to find her way back to you, then black and white advice like telling you to forget her and move on is not really going to help. Sometimes you just have to go with what feels right for you. That way, if it goes well then that is great and you were right to keep trying.... but if it doesn't go well at least you knew you tried.
So, I often do try to give advice for both sides of the argument. Of course, not in some cases. Like, if somebody were coming to us because they were stuck in a physically and emotionally abusive relationship, I could not in good conscience give them any advice other than that they'd be better off without a toxic influence like that in their life.
In your case, though, it more just sounds like this gal didn't appreciate you when she had you and then wound up with a bad person. Now that she's gotten away from him, MAYBE she could see the mistake she made letting you go and maybe you two could succeed now where you did not before. If not, if nothing changes and you two aren't going to work out... well, you'll find that out in time anyway. But, in your case you may ultimately feel a lot better if you try and it doesn't work out rather than if you just gave up now. You deserve that peace of mind, so if this is how you get it who am I to tell you not to go for it? Especially given that maybe it WON'T fail this time. Maybe it will, but maybe it won't.
Anyway, I know I keep seeing this, but I truly mean it.... Good luck to you! I truly hope this works out for the best for you, in whatever way that may be in the end.
Alright, so I think I genuinely need some advice now. Most of the time throughout this thread, I've mostly posted in it, because I wanted to get some things off my chest, but now I actually feel like I need some advice.
So C wanted to call me, so I said it was okay, but I wouldn't want to talk about all the important stuff yet. I told her we should wait with that until I come to Kenya, but I was willing to small-talk. So she called me on WhatsApp today, after writing a text to me first about being sorry about everything that has happened. It was weird seeing her there on my screen again. It felt like I was taken right back to the time we were in a relationship. It wasn't necessarily a good feeling, because I was also reminded of all the video-calls I had had with her during times where I was very suspicious about her behavior, which used to keep me from truly enjoying the relationship...
Anyways, she is really shy, so I had to be the one talking most of the time. She kept smiling at me, and I tried not to smile too much, because I am definitely not over everything that has happened yet... But I couldn't help but be a little soft, of course. We didn't talk about anything serious, just like I wanted, just about where we were, what time of day it was here, and when I would come to Kenya, and stuff like that...
So after the call she texted me that she was a bit shy, but she did miss me, and wished me a good evening. I told her that her shyness was the reason I fell in love with her to begin with, and that I had also missed her, but sometimes been really mad at her for loving a guy that hates me, and that I was not over it yet, but with time, I would eventually, if she would continue to stay on the right path. And then she wrote this:
"I didn't love him because he hates you
I stayed with him because he promised
me that he will change but I was
wrong. I thought he will prove
everyone wrong but he prove them
right. Please forgive me please I beg you
(praying and crying emotions)"
(A picture of a drawing she made saying
"I missed you so much")
"I am sleeping now, and please
forgive me I beg you for the bottom of
my heart (more sad smileys)"
I haven't responded yet, because this is where I want your advice...
So obviously, she is putting in a genuine effort on apologizing. What would be my best move now? The issue is, I actually wanted to avoid this happening now. I wanted her to apologize when seeing me in Kenya. Not now over a text... And now I am also reminded of the times she betrayed me, and I can definitely say, that it still affects me a lot, and it drives me slightly insane just thinking about everything that has happened. I can't just say "Okay, it's fine, I forgive you", because the only way I can truly forgive her, is if she can prove herself with time. Of course, it heals my heart a bit that she's genuinely apologizing, but how tough/soft should I be? That's my question now. I don't want to get too soft, and make her feel like she has apologized, and that everything is alright. It will take a lot of time for her to truly win back my trust.
But I also don't want to be really unfair to her, and give her the impression, that I do not appreciate her effort of apologizing. I mean, she's doing the right thing now.
So... what's my best move now?
(Read post above first)
Alright, so since I did not get a response in the thread for a while, I decided to figure out what to reply myself, and I came up with a thorough explanation saying that I truly appreciate her effort of apologizing, but she must understand, that in order for me to forgive her and for my heart to heal completely, it would have to take a few months, and then after that I would be able to start loving her again.
Now, she's having a hard time coping with that. She's telling me that it makes her feel like I don't want her in my life. I am trying to make her understand me, and it's like she's taking things in the wrong way. Because, sure I want her in my life, but I just want her to respect that I don't want to rush things, after being betrayed twice, and that my heart needs to heal too. So anyways, she requested another video-call, and I agreed. She told me that it makes her cry everytime she thinks about what she did. She had genuine tears in her eyes when she said that. It's tough seeing her cry, because of how I can't forgive her right away, because she truly feels bad, I can tell from the look of her, and I feel like telling her that she shouldn't feel bad, but I don't actually think she shouldn't feel bad. Seeing her feel bad over what she did, proves to me, that she's doing the right thing, and she's learning from her mistakes. I try to tell her that, and motivate her to at least be happy that she is doing the right thing, but obviously she wants me to forgive her completely. She finds it very difficult to cope with...
But among other things, we have also talked about some of the stuff I actually wanted to wait with, because we needed to talk about something anyways. She's telling me a lot of insane stories about S beating her up, making it impossible for her to leave him, until now where, after he mistreated her again, despite promising her that he would change, she has finally had enough, and taken the change to run away and leave him. I also asked her if I should be afraid of my safety when I come, but she says that S can't do anything to me, because he is afraid of the police. She even started laughing when I asked her about that. She's very much into me, and the way she talks to me, also makes me feel loved inside. To be honest, it feels like I am talking to my girlfriend again. In other words, she is making me fall in love and again with her. She is making me feel like she is my girlfriend. She's making me want to just let it go, and enjoy what I can have with her, now that I have the chance, rather than waiting. She makes it seem so unnatural to insist on being her friend, BUT we are still just friends though...
I feel like she is rushing me to be her boyfriend again, and I am not ready to trust her already. I am so afraid of getting my heart broken, and if I could have it the way I wanted, then I would still want to wait AT LEAST until I meet with her in Kenya, to start getting closer to her again. I don't like the way she makes me feel like doing the opposite of what I planned to.
Is there an appropriate way I can try to distance myself from her? I was thinking about turning off WhatsApp notifications, so that I don't end up in too many active chat-sessions with her...
In one way, I feel good about what I am doing. I am just giving her a taste of what I am like as a guy. I mean, I am doing this because it was her request to talk to me. And if she wants to remind herself of me, then I have nothing against that. But I just don't like the way it makes me fall back in love with her again, before I am ready to...
Damn. I feel like I am weak.
No one is commenting, and new things are happening all the time
C has been wanting to call me everyday, and I have accepted it all, because well, if she wants to remind herself of me, I have nothing against that. I tried to insist we should only small-talk, but we quickly ran out of meaningless things to say, and starting talking about the more serious topics - about the past, and about how her abusive relationship with S had been like etc. - However I have often stopped her, because I wanted to schedule all of that, for when we meet again in Kenya, and we can go through everything from the beginning together.
I tried to hold on to our position of only being friends. I thoroughly explained to her, both over text and over calls, how I didn't think any of us was ready for a relationship yet, and that my heart would have to heal from the wounds. But everytime I told her, I could just see how hurt she felt. And inside of me, it also felt so damn unnatural for me to insist that we should only be friends. I knew I did this, in order to avoid being heartbroken, in case she would change her mind and go for someone else. But I started to wonder, if it was a bad idea. Because maybe, forcing this unnatural friendzoning between us, would end up hurting both of us more, than just letting go of it, and being together again...
Just a side note:
C has told me that she understands her place, and that she is accepting the fact that she needs to have patience, to win back my love for her. So she is not desperately trying to change my mind into being with her again. She is very humble now, after everything that has happened. However, I can still see it in her face when we talk, how hurt she feels about being friendzoned, and hurting a girl that I love just feels so wrong... Especially because of how unnatural it also feels for me to friendzone her, when I truly love her.
So I've been thinking a LOT about my relationship to C. What do I truly want for her? And I think I have come up with the conclusion, that I just want her to be happy. Even if being happy means to be with someone else. I know she can't be happy with S, but I've promised myself that IF she finds out, that I am not the guy she wants, and there is someone else (apart from S) out there, that she feels like she wants in her life rather than me - then I have to accept it and try to be happy about knowing, that at least she is happy - and her happiness is more important than my happiness. And right now, being with me, is what would make her happy, so that was the turning point for me, that caused me to decide, that I should let it happen again
Yesterday night, when we had a call, (and it lasted for over an hour) I took the decision, and I decided to tell her how I felt that it was unnatural for me to friendzone her, and that I just wanted to let it go, so we could be together again. She was so happy afterwards. I could feel her relief, and I felt a big relief too. But I told her, that I wouldn't want our relationship to be official yet. So it still says "Single" on both of our facebook profiles. The reason for that is, that IF she changes her mind, then she is not "tied" to me. I love her, and that means I'd set her free at anytime, as long as I know she will be happy.
Of course, when I told her that I would be okay with it, if she'd change her mind and be with someone else, she interrupted me with "No no no no no!" and told me, that she promised she would never hurt me again, never betray me again, and all that kind of stuff. But at least she knows now.
So, of course I am afraid of getting my heart broken again. But I've decided to be prepared that it might happen again. Of course she refuses that it will happen again, but still, I keep reminding myself about the probability. Her loyalty is still being tested. And it might fail. But I am enjoying every moment of our new relationship, and I keep reminding myself, that even if our relationship fails, then the most important thing is, that she is happy and free
Well, I wish I had been able to get here before. I didn't have time to get back to this site until today, so I am just now seeing all of your updates. It may be a little too late for what I would have personally suggested. Which was that you should have just kept your distance for now. That doesn't mean you had to tell her to take a hike, and that you wanted nothing to do with her until your trip there. But, the constant, daily contact is really no good for either of you.
Unfortunately, it sounds like that advice comes too late, since you have already made the decision to accept her back. I'm not saying that decision is right or wrong... I just personally think it was probably the wrong time. As result of you talking to her basically every day, you were doing pretty much exactly what I would have suggested you not do.... and that is that you were constantly talking about, and constantly reminding her of what she did to hurt you in the past, and all that she had to do to get you back. Believe me, I know that wasn't your intention.... but when you keep telling her over and over that she needs to do this and that, she needs to show her loyalty for at least two months, etc. etc. then it DOES make it seem/feel to her like you are making her jump through hoops to win you back.
When, truth be told, your expectations were 100% reasonable. It's just, you made your wishes perfectly clear. They didn't need to be restated again and again. All that does is exactly what it did... make her doubt whether you actually wanted to accept her back at all. It would have been much better to tell her that you are still open to trying again, but that you need some time to process everything. Then maybe you two talk here and there before your visit... but you keep that to a minimum.
Now, I DO think you have a really good attitude that what you want is for her to be happy, even if that ultimately winds up meaning she is happy without you. ...The thing is, that SHOULD NOT mean that her happiness is allowed to come at the expense of yours. At the expense of hurting you. Hopefully that doesn't happen.... but by accepting her back before you were truly ready, you've made yourself vulnerable to that possibility. Don't get me wrong. Sometimes in life you do just have to take what you want. So, ultimately maybe you accepting her back will windup being the right choice. I hope it is. It's just, if it is ultimately what is right... it likely would have been just as right in X months of however long you needed to feel okay about the situation.
Anyway, that's all just a lot of blah blah blah. The TL;DR version is that I think maybe you should have stuck to your original plan... but that since you decided to take her back now rather than waiting that I wish you the best and hope it works out for you.
For now, I guess if I was going to give you advice based on where things stand now, I think it would be to just take it easy. Don't completely let your guard down like everything is just A-okay now. She does still need to prove that she can change. That things will work this time where they didn't before. At the same time, though, don't rub it in her face that she needs to change/earn you back/work to keep you. I know that isn't your intention at all, but if you keep reminding her of it, it can come across that way. Again, if things start moving too fast and you are just not ready for it yet, there are more delicate ways you can make it clear you aren't ready without having to again remind her that she needs to do XYZ and wait this amount of time before you can fully accept her back. So, basically, just takes things slowly and enjoy it as it goes. Don't hold back where you don't want, but also don't dive in too deep before you feel more comfortable that things have changed for the better.
Good luck.
Thanks for your considerable advice, once again. You do have some good points, and I agree with some of it, and disagree with other parts of it. Or maybe not disagree, but I feel like maybe you misunderstood me a bit. Anyways, let me try to answer bit by bit
It may be a little too late for what I would have personally suggested. Which was that you should have just kept your distance for now. That doesn't mean you had to tell her to take a hike, and that you wanted nothing to do with her until your trip there. But, the constant, daily contact is really no good for either of you.
Believe me, I was very confident about following my plan of keeping the distance. And I wasn't a fan of the daily contact to begin with, but I couldn't figure out how to tell her to back off. Because she did the right thing, so I felt like it would make me punish her for doing the right thing... I felt like I just had to go with whatever she wished. If it was daily, then it should be daily. If it was once a week, it should be once a week. Plus, I had previously promised her that she would be allowed to talk to me again as a friend if she broke up with S, so I had to keep it. If it's good for her, well, she will find out. I have already told her that it would be totally acceptable, if she feels like she needs some space. For me, well... I think what's good for me is to know, that I am setting her free, and letting her get as little or much of me as she wants to
As result of you talking to her basically every day, you were doing pretty much exactly what I would have suggested you not do.... and that is that you were constantly talking about, and constantly reminding her of what she did to hurt you in the past, and all that she had to do to get you back.
I agree here. I think I recently reminded her a bit too much of this, and even she expressed how it made her feel bad to hear about, and that she was already aware. This is a mistake from my side, and I admit that. I might want to apologize to her for that when I get the chance. Still, on the inside, I will not feel convinced completely until a few months has passed, but I am not going to remind her anymore times - of course, unless she asks me directly about it.
It would have been much better to tell her that you are still open to trying again, but that you need some time to process everything. Then maybe you two talk here and there before your visit... but you keep that to a minimum.
It was also my intention to begin with, but well... I didn't want to tell her to back off, so I just decided to be available for her whenever she wanted to be in contact with me. And that kind of escalated, because well... Two people in love can't pretend to only be friends for long. And I felt like the awkwardly forced friendzoning was hurting both of us more, than the potential risk of just letting our hearts decide
Now, I DO think you have a really good attitude that what you want is for her to be happy, even if that ultimately winds up meaning she is happy without you. ...The thing is, that SHOULD NOT mean that her happiness is allowed to come at the expense of yours. At the expense of hurting you.
Oh, what I meant with her happiness in front of mine, is also my point about giving her the freedom to change her mind. Of course I would be hurt, if ultimately, she decides that someone else is the right guy for her. That's only a natural reaction. But maybe not THAT hurt afterall. Cause with the mindset, that I'll be happy if only she is happy, then at least her happiness will not end up being at the expense of mine. And another reason to tell her that she should not feel like she is "tied" to me, is to make sure, that it wouldn't hurt me as much if she changes her mind, because I would already have given her the green light for that - instead of it being a betrayal, which would be a lot more hurtful.
Hopefully that doesn't happen.... but by accepting her back before you were truly ready, you've made yourself vulnerable to that possibility.
Again, I am perfectly aware of that, and my way of avoiding being too vulnerable, is to say to myself, that the most important thing for my happiness, is knowing that she is happy + knowing that she didn't do anything wrong, since I'd already give her the freedom to change her mind. So I am prepared, in a way that will hopefully hurt me the least possible, if it happens.
Don't get me wrong. Sometimes in life you do just have to take what you want. So, ultimately maybe you accepting her back will windup being the right choice. I hope it is. It's just, if it is ultimately what is right... it likely would have been just as right in X months of however long you needed to feel okay about the situation.
That's true. It's just hard for me to see how I would manage to not accept her back now. It's very difficult to resist someone you love, when deep inside your heart, you just want the same as they do. The fact is, I felt ready to love her already, but was only afraid of accepting her, worrying that I would get really hurt, if she betrayed me again. But that's where I got the idea, of just changing my mindset about our relationship, and let it be open from her side, so that I am already prepared and in acceptance, if she changes her mind.
The TL;DR version is that I think maybe you should have stuck to your original plan...
I gave my original plan a try, and it didn't work out for me. But I didn't give up on it without at least trying to hold on to it first, and really considering my options.
For now, I guess if I was going to give you advice based on where things stand now, I think it would be to just take it easy. Don't completely let your guard down like everything is just A-okay now. She does still need to prove that she can change. That things will work this time where they didn't before. At the same time, though, don't rub it in her face that she needs to change/earn you back/work to keep you. I know that isn't your intention at all, but if you keep reminding her of it, it can come across that way.
We still have a lot of things to discuss, but for now and until we meet face to face, I am not going to go through that with her. When we meet in Kenya, she's going to be aware, that of course I am not okay with everything now, and some scars are still deep inside me, and they will take a long time with a trustworthy girlfriend to heal. But as you say, no more rubbing it in her face.
So, basically, just takes things slowly and enjoy it as it goes. Don't hold back where you don't want, but also don't dive in too deep before you feel more comfortable that things have changed for the better.
And that's exactly what I am doing now. I used to hold myself back where I didn't want, because I tried to stick to my plan of friendzoning her. But it felt so unnatural and wrong, and I felt like I was hurting both me and her, by forcing this awkwardly unnatural friendzoning between us. And my way of making sure I don't dive in too deep, is by letting the relationship be open in her end for now, and prepare myself that she MIGHT change her mind, despite the fact that she refuses that this will ever happen, hehe...
FYI, I saw your update and just wanted to let you know I haven't forgotten you. ;-) I ran out of time to respond today, but I will come back soon to re-read your latest update and add my thoughts if I have anything.
But, as always, best of luck to you.
Getting a chance to re-read your latest update now and I think it sounds like you have a good plan ahead, at least for you personally. Again, not necessarily the plan I personally would have recommended, but that doesn't necessarily make me right or you wrong. It may just be what is right for you personally.
Again, I also do think you have a great attitude in that you really just want her to be happy. Even if that winds up not being with you. Thing is... that doesn't make it okay for her to use you. I don't necessarily think that is what she's doing, I'm not suggesting that. I'm just saying that if you two are deciding to give this another try, it needs to be with you both putting in a sincere effort to make it work this time. We can see that is the case from your side, but hopefully it also is from her side as well.
And it sounds like it is. I guess my point in all that is that it just isn't okay if she is just using you. Which, again, I don't think she is. I just think, thought, that it can be easy to THINK you are doing the right thing by putting the other person first only to get taken advantage of and I would not want that to happen to you. Hopefully it wouldn't. At least from what you have shared it sounds like she is trying this time. I gues I just say it because I don't want you to get too comfortable with accepting her back, or to be too focused on her happiness that you also forget to focus on your own.
You deserve somebody special. Hopefully that can be her. Ultimately if it won't wind up being her, then hopefully she is at least up front with you about that since you've made it perfectly clear to her you don't want her to feel forced/trapped in your relationship. And, if she unfortunately does decide you are just not the right match for her, and if she IS up front with you about it rather than using you/leading you on.... it is great if you can be happy for her.... but you also still deserve to focus on your own happiness. If she ultimately proves not to be your true match that doesn't mean you've lost your one shot at true love.... it means she wasn't your true love after all.
Anyway, again, hopefully none of that matters in the end. Hopefully things work out for you two this time. Either way, though, I hope you are able to care enough about yourself to pursue your own happiness. Whether or not that is with her.
Best of luck to you.
If you have to shake the head of someone to get them to see that being with you is worth it, it will never be worth it to them. If she wanted to be with you, she would be. It's not up to you to decide for her who she should be with. You sound unstable and unreasonable. Your best bet is to move on and get over it.
Gina, please read some of my latest posts, to stay up to date with this, before drawing conclusions :-)
In fairness to Gina, this thread has gotten pretty long since we've been going back and forth on it for a while. Even despite your recent updates, though, I would still agree with her conclusion. You should never have to essentially force somebody to appreciate you. Ultimately, your gal is back with you now, so hopefully now she HAS seen that you are worth having in her life. Hopefully the mistake of being with somebody so bad for her has helped her to see how good for her you are.
So, hopefully that advice is a moot point for you now... but I do still think it is an important message to take home, even if just for future reference.
So it's been a month, and a lot has happened since I went to Kenya and eventually arrived back home this morning!
But before I update this thread, is anyone still interested hearing about my story?
I don't really feel like starting a huge new discussion, so maybe, send me a private message, and I will update you about everything that has happened :-)
Private messages have only 1k max character limit. Here posts have 15k limit so better to wrute it here.
I can just upload my response to textuploader.com and send the link in a private message, so it won't be a problem with the character limit.
So anyways, those who are interested knowing what has happened since, send me a private message 😊