Inner Game

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Originally Posted by misombra [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

ov, you should just affirm to yourself everyday, that you are a good guy and you are deserving of a good girl.

if you carry that with you all day, i guarantee the good girls will come to you.

the games are stupid. ask any woman here if when they met their boyfriends or husbands if games like that were exposed to them.

on my part, no. no games, no manipulation. if that was there, it would have been doa.

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It's not like a game, it's interpreting women signs and trying to take advantage from them, it's being smart. But what OV needs is to feel good with himself.

OV, your happiness doesn't reflect others, only yourself... If you wanted, you could spend all your day home and you would probably find something to do without anyone else - what I mean is, others are important, but not as much as you, you're the one who has a choice over your life, not them.

Good luck mate, sorry I'm not so good at those elaborated speeches.

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Originally Posted by okapa [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

It's not like a game, it's interpreting women signs and trying to take advantage from them, it's being smart. But what OV needs is to feel good with himself.

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I agree w/this. I just don't believe the way to achieve this is to act like an asshole/be fake. It is those points that I point out. Some of the authors GS takes his ideas from have some merit, I agree. But like any idea, they have limitations & in some cases serious problems.

Perhaps GS is just explaining himself badly, I allow for that possibility. But, there ARE ppl out there who use these techniques in ways that many do not consider ethical. And, contrary to what GS might post, there is nothing wrong w/ethics. It is the fabric of our society & the core of who we are as humans. So. Are there bitchy women out there who treat guys like shit? Sure. Do I think they are any better than player types. Not at all. I view both personality types as needing to work on their self-esteem & maturity.

There is a middle path to finding a balance b/t confidence, good communication & still being a decent human being that doesn't need to 'succeed' at the expense of others & your self-respect. "Working" someone is only necessary when you believe you can't have an authentic communication w/them (so GS, you might want to consider dropping the NLP lingo w/OV in your posts, he's too smart for it). That is all I am saying.

Maybe I'm exagerating, but if this helps you understand it, whatever:

You are in a war. You represent men. You are fighting against women. They are using athomic bombs on you. Will you use it on them?

Now, it isn't as bad as it sounds - by winning them over, you are feeling better but you are also making them feel better with themselves. And by getting a girl, she isn't going to be with a pseudo-bad-boy who is the real asshole - you may act like one to get her, then you just act normal. What if you are acting like one? Are you going to private yourself from life because of ethics?

Just do what feels good with yourself and makes you happy, that's what's important.

edit: And try to make girls and other human beings happy aswell, as long as it doesn't make you feel bad.

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Originally Posted by okapa [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

It's not like a game, it's interpreting women signs and trying to take advantage from them, it's being smart. But what OV needs is to feel good with himself.

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how is ov supposed to feel good about himself when he knows he's manipulating people into liking him and do cruel things to people to go about it?

ov is likable all on his own. he doesn't even have to try.

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Originally Posted by okapa [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Maybe I'm exagerating, but if this helps you understand it, whatever:

You are in a war. You represent men. You are fighting against women. They are using athomic bombs on you. Will you use it on them?

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it's really sad that you think of it like that. sad, and a little pathetic.

What's up with the war analogies?

Weird.

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Originally Posted by vashti [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I don't understand why the inexperienced males actually buy all the crap Grk posts when:

1) the females on this board are unanimously disgusted by his methods.

2) No one knows for sure that he is as successful catching women as he claims.

Some of you guys must be pretty desperate.

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They buy it b/c GS is like a religious convert-turned disciple trying to convince his 'poor fellow men' to see the light. LOL.

Tapping into someone's emotions, esp when vulnerable/confused (whether by themselves or manipulated into it by someone else), is a time-tested way to get what you want from them. Ask any used-car salesperson.

That said, there IS a problem here. There ARE a lot of desperate young men & women trying to connect out there, I think. So they grasp onto things like these manipulation techniques for lack of a better alternative.

GS, you try to attack my being a female, etc. when I'm attacking your ideas. No prob; it doesn't phase me at all, but I do want to point out that its irrelevant. My being female has no bearing on whether my points have any validity or not. Carry on doing so if it gives you some comfort but understand it demonstrates some internal biases you own, (you're making your keys rather obvious dude) & dilutes the effectiveness of your good ideas by making you look bad . That is not my intent. For me, this is all about the ideas.

We have heard much (ha!) about GS's experiences in this regard & what he believes works in certain situations. I don't think his way is the only way (in fact I know it isn't). There have been other opinions expressed by ppl with experiences just as valid who did NOT require these gaming methods GS proposes. I'm not saying not to get out there & get what you want. I'm saying try to stay human while doing so. Find a middle path.

Think about it.

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You are in a war. You represent men. You are fighting against women. They are using athomic bombs on you. Will you use it on them?

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Why not approach the women, unarmed, and calmly explain that you have nothing to be fighting about in the first place?

~Sphinx

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Originally Posted by misombra [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

it's really sad that you think of it like that. sad, and a little pathetic.

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Did you read my entire post? Even the part you quoted?

What I used there was to try to make him understand under conflictuory circunstances. If you didn't get it, I will try again.

A relationship is, at least in my opinion, a healthy bound between a man and a woman (the kind of relationship that I'm talking about, of course). It is, therefor, good for both parts.

However, women do have, again from my point of view, greater power on social terms. And, from personal experience, they do use games and manipulation to get individuals they like.

So, if they do it with the objective of getting an healthy relationship, why can't I do the same? That is my point.

By the way, we are not lieing or something, we are attracting someone by influencing her subconsciously.

You are only uncomfortable at our ideas because you are afraid they might work at you, making you lose the superior status you think you have. Actually, the one you have in modern society.

We are trying to balance things to our side, with benefits for both parts. There is, however, a part of all this game theory that I do not agree with.

And it is lieing. Because if I approach a girl, it's with an objective in mind - either befriend her, or be her boyfriend and I do not think lieing contributes to any of these two.

Looking forward to read your response.

nobody can make you powerless without your permission.

how old are you, okapa?

I guess you could look a few posts back but I'm 15.

I'm not going to argue based on experience, I know you have the upper hand and I do respect your opinions, unlike you may or may not think.

I also accept any criticism you might have, go ahead, but please, make it constructive, will you?

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Originally Posted by misombra [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

nobody can make you powerless without your permission.

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That would be what people do all over the world...

Sorry for the double post.

Edit: By the way, would I be a good-looking, nice and smart girl I would take advantage of that. I think we agree here, right?

Edit again: not saying you aren't one, I have no clue about that.

Edit again: noticed a post:

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Originally Posted by TheSphinx [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Why not approach the women, unarmed, and calmly explain that you have nothing to be fighting about in the first place?

~Sphinx

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I do not approach women with a recorded speach and try to **** them... I approach them, show who I am and see what they have to offer as people, and I try to find out if I am interested in them. Just one thing: I don't think you should let a girl know you are interested in them upfront because that will make you look like you're another normal guy - if that was even what you meant.

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Originally Posted by okapa [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I guess you could look a few posts back but I'm 15.

I'm not going to argue based on experience, I know you have the upper hand and I do respect your opinions, unlike you may or may not think.

I also accept any criticism you might have, go ahead, but please, make it constructive, will you?

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I will not bash on a kid, but I just hope you know that you are very young, and your level of experience if very limited. High school girls do not remain high school girls forever, and they will tire of this mind set. Remember, they are only just beginning to learn about themselves at your age, just like you. They are awkward about weilding power, just as boys are awkward about interacting socially.

The methods GrkScorp advocates would really never work for an adult woman with a reasonable amount of healthy self esteem. he wishes to manipulate needy, insecure girls, which let's face it: it really isn't all that hard to do because they are so needy. What you need to ask yourself is if that is really the kind of person you want a relationship with.

Of course, you have a number of years to worry about that. At the age of 15, I understand why you find Grk's methods interesting.

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Originally Posted by vashti [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I will not bash on a kid, but I just hope you know that you are very young, and your level of experience if very limited. High school girls do not remain high school girls forever, and they will tire of this mind set. Remember, they are only just beginning to learn about themselves at your age, just like you. They are awkward about weilding power, just as boys are awkward about interacting socially.

The methods GrkScorp advocates would really never work for an adult woman with a reasonable amount of healthy self esteem. he wishes to manipulate needy, insecure girls, which let's face it: it really isn't all that hard to do because they are so needy. What you need to ask yourself is if that is really the kind of person you want a relationship with.

Of course, you have a number of years to worry about that.

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Yes, of course I've not been dating 20+ years old women. And I would love if my personality alone would be alone for the girls my age, but if it is, I've been unlucky with that. At least with the girls I've been attracted to.

I understand your point of view and I hope you're right, but that tell her you like her or give her a flower advice has only worked 4 times so far... It's sad but it's the truth.

Well, I don't think I'll keep arguing now that I understand you, mind you that the anology was just to make someone (don't remember who now) understand.

I have to go, test tomorrow, cya all...

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Originally Posted by okapa [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

tell her you like her or give her a flower advice has only worked 4 times so far... It's sad but it's the truth.

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You are 15. That (4 times) is quite respectable at your age. You actually sound like you are doing just fine.

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Originally Posted by okapa [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Well, I don't think I'll keep arguing now that I understand you, mind you that the anology was just to make someone (don't remember who now) understand.

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You are not at war with women. Women are not at war with men. If you continue to believe that, you will have problems. Self-fulfilling prophecy. The goal is mutual growth & understanding. Vive la difference! ;)

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Originally Posted by misombra [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

how is ov supposed to feel good about himself when he knows he's manipulating people into liking him and do cruel things to people to go about it?

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When the cat's away.. the mice come out to play..

So far.. i've read EVERYTHING Indi, Vash, and Mis have wrote.. So far, i've yet to stumble over anything substantial or any solid attack against anything i've said.. all 3 have nothing but "soft" blah blah going on.. but it's understandable.. 2 single mothers, it's understandable they're not happy with men.. it's understandable women want to advocate fair play for men..

Quantity over Quality? Never.. Quality and Quantity.. always.. But you'd be a fool to believe that "quality" in a woman comes in the form of her being game-free.. If she doesn't play games with you directly, her friends will tell her to, her orbiters will tell her to, her own mother may even tell her to.. Have you had the luxury to be part of a girl's-night-out? Think of it like sitting in a table with Indi, Vash, and Mis.. talking about how horrible men are, and how they would just like that perfect man..

In the world.. that "quality" woman will put up a b*tch-act, a cold-act, and WILL play games.. does it mean she's not a quality women? Not at all.. Many of the same game-playing b*tch girls have turned out to be amazing people after the first 15-30minutes you shut off their act.. Are there women who never turn off the act? Yes, and that's because it's not an act.. It's because who they are.. and those are the women who's number you should never ask for.. those are the women who you should share your value with..

But again, this thread isn't about anyone but OV.. This thread has NOTHING to do with women.. this is about OV realizing and letting out that value from inside of him.. that's all this thread is about.. that's what we mean when we say "Inner Game".. So again OV, take your time, and I hope to see your posts follow up to those questions..

Best,

GrkScorp

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Originally Posted by GrkScorp [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

but it's understandable.. 2 single mothers, it's understandable they're not happy with men.. it's understandable women want to advocate fair play for men..

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Two single mothers? Where? :surprised

Both indi and I are happily married. We both have sons we adore. (I have a daughter, too.) Why should we not be happy with men?

Ok everyone! hold it! lol....there is like 3 pages I have to read here. Threads gone bonkers.

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Originally Posted by vashti [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Two single mothers? Where? :surprised

Both indi and I are happily married. We both have sons we adore. (I have a daughter, too.) Why should we not be happy with men?

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Oh Vash... he knew this. Led you right into it. Self-destructive button-pusher. But its a good example for those following the thread about the attempts at psych I was describing. :P

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Originally Posted by GrkScorp [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

But again, this thread isn't about anyone but OV.. This thread has NOTHING to do with women.. this is about OV realizing and letting out that value from inside of him.. that's all this thread is about.. that's what we mean when we say "Inner Game".. So again OV, take your time, and I hope to see your posts follow up to those questions..

Best,

GrkScorp

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LOL. Here, GS, let me do the 4th repeat for you. NLP anyone? (OV, go read about this sometime).

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Originally Posted by vashti [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Two single mothers?

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Oh yeah.. that's right.. lol.. I even remember clipping out the article for Indi's husband..

Anyway.. OV.. take your time and give your answers some effort and thought.. The more you do.. the more you'll realize about yourself.. and ahem.. the sooner you do.. the sooner you will too..

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Originally Posted by IndiReloaded [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

LOL. Here, GS, let me do the 4th repeat for you. NLP anyone? (OV, go read about this sometime).

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Indi.. i'm not trying to seduce OV.. lol

And it's not NLP.. it's indirect suggestion.. it's a clinical psychotherapy method.. where you sit back.. and allow the client to discover himself/herself.. you simply guide the client until he/she finds the solutions that are best.. or finds what he/she is looking for in general..

As Milton Erickson said, "I was riding a horse, and I didn't know which way to go back to the stable.. So I let it wander, every so often it would go off the road.. and I would simply tug it back on course.. in just 2 hours, it took me back to the stable"

Believe me OV, you're going to have all of LF watching, and Indi more specifically.. you're going to notice the lack of covert commands (something that's impossible using text-only).. that's because what's important to me is NOT getting you to where I want you to be.. but getting you to where YOU want to be.. I'm not a magician, I can't transform you into something you're not.. I can only help you see who you really are, and what you have to offer.. That's something you'll notice and see more clearly as the ball gets rolling..

So, OV, if you'd be so kind..

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Originally Posted by GrkScorp [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I'm not a magician, I can't transform you into something you're not..

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Well shit!

I f*ckin' give up, then.

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Originally Posted by GrkScorp [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Oh yeah.. that's right.. lol.. I even remember clipping out the article for Indi's husband..

Anyway.. OV.. take your time and give your answers some effort and thought.. The more you do.. the more you'll realize about yourself.. and ahem.. the sooner you do.. the sooner you will too..

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LOL, too funny GS. But okay: An apology for any implied offense would have been better, but your effort is nonetheless appreciated.

Have at it guys, sorry for the divergence OV.

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Originally Posted by GrkScorp [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Indi.. i'm not trying to seduce OV.. lol

And it's not NLP.. it's indirect suggestion.. it's a clinical psychotherapy method.. where you sit back.. and allow the client to discover himself/herself.. you simply guide the client until he/she finds the solutions that are best.. or finds what he/she is looking for in general..

As Milton Erickson said, "I was riding a horse, and I didn't know which way to go back to the stable.. So I let it wander, every so often it would go off the road.. and I would simply tug it back on course.. in just 2 hours, it took me back to the stable"

Believe me OV, you're going to have all of LF watching, and Indi more specifically.. you're going to notice the lack of covert commands (something that's impossible using text-only).. that's because what's important to me is NOT getting you to where I want you to be.. but getting you to where YOU want to be.. I'm not a magician, I can't transform you into something you're not.. I can only help you see who you really are, and what you have to offer.. That's something you'll notice and see more clearly as the ball gets rolling..

So, OV, if you'd be so kind..

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Ah, I forgot. You're the one w/the pyschology degree, b/c some relative has one, right? ;)

NLP is a catchpot of all kinds of psych techniques, & its 'practioners' are a hodgepodge of dubious training. That's what makes it such a mess.

I don't remember the names of the techniques anymore but I know when I see them & I will point them out if I think they aren't being used in an upfront manner. You've been warned. I would suggest you just TELL someone you are just going to repeat stuff until they respond b/c you think it will help them. Or better yet, ASK them directly. Its an insult to try to do what you do to someone as bright as OV. I would ignore you too.

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Originally Posted by IndiReloaded [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I don't remember the names of the techniques anymore but I know when I see them & I will point them out if I think they aren't being used in an upfront manner. You've been warned. I would suggest you just TELL someone you are just going to repeat stuff until they respond b/c you think it will help them. Or better yet, ASK them directly. Its an insult to try to do what you do to someone as bright as OV. I would ignore you too.

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To make one thing clear OV asked me the moment he himself created the thread.. and he himself will realize his own value..

Up front, i've already been up front about what you're about to go through.. I'm about to guide you through a mental journey.. and it's a very fine thread that will keep you on course, that's all I can do.. but it is YOU, OV, that has to take that journey.. and only YOU will find what's really inside of you, to familiarize yourself with the value you have to offer, to capture a crystal clear image of a strong and powerful identity that represents an uninhibited OV, an OV fully aware of himself..

Now, if you don't feel comfortable sharing that information with everyone, I understand.. feel free to PM me if that makes you a little more comfortable, that's perfectly understandable..

Best,

GrkScorp

I know you said "meaningful" answers but the questions just aren't really all that deep in my opinion. They ask some things that I can't either A.) remember or B.) don't have an answer for.

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Originally Posted by GrkScorp [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

- We've all had embarassing moments in our life, while you're thinking through many of those times, i'm sure a couple of them stand out more than others. What are some of those times? How did they make you feel?

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I don't really have any because I don't really take risks. I swear the only ones are maybe being rejected by a girl one time, I was younger so that made me feel a bit regretful that I bothered. I haven't had to many embarrassing moments, kind of for the reason that I avoid them like the plague.

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Originally Posted by GrkScorp [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

- We've all faced challenged in our lives, we face them every day. Some are large, others are small. What are some of the challanges that you've faced in your life? What was going through your mind as you were faced with them for the first time? How was it like to get through them? How did you feel afterwards?

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School. I finished and got my masters. I felt accomplished. There really isn't more to say on that.

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Originally Posted by GrkScorp [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

- I'm sure there've been times where you've felt great about yourself. Maybe it was something you did or said, or maybe it was something that happened. Whatever it was, when you think back to those moments, what were they? How did your body feel like? How was your breathing different? What emotions were going through your head? How did it feel like to feel great about yourself for that moment?

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This is kind of the same question as the previous one. I guess it felt great the first time I had sex. I was anxious and in tense but became comfortable quickly and things were fun.

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Originally Posted by GrkScorp [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

- Every person is unique. Although we're all similar to some degree or another, we have traits, characteristics, and qualities about us that compose our own unique identity. I'm sure you can think of some of those qualities in you. Some people can write an entire book, others are more modest. As you think about all the unique qualities you have, make a list of the 5 best qualities you have that define you as a person. Take a moment to think about them and write them all down. How do they all tie in together? Can you think of moments where you've seen them in action? What were some of those moments?

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1.) Success
2.) I'm respectful to other people
3.) resourceful and clever
4.) As of now independent
5.) I can be funny, but that depends on the other person's sense of humor. Also I find myself logical and reasonable...those are always up for debate though and we prove those everyday.

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Originally Posted by IndiReloaded [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

LOL. Here, GS, let me do the 4th repeat for you. NLP anyone? (OV, go read about this sometime).

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Is that the Neuro linguistic programming thing? I know about it.

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Originally Posted by IndiReloaded [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Is this about quality or quantity, OV?

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Doesn't putting myself in the biggest group(quantity) raise the probability of me finding that great one(quality)?

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Originally Posted by IndiReloaded [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Okay, OV, here's what you do: find a girl you are sincerely attracted to. I am assuming you want a relationship, not a simple hook up. Study her from a distance & USE that fine brain to figure out what will catch her attention. Then *do those things*. Be funny, witty, clever, in a slow but steady way. Try to evoke things that will engage her emotions, women are emotional--humor is the easiest to start with. In these things, I agree w/GS, confidence is important, but it needs to be real. Give her time to process what you are doing, observe her responses & do more of what works & less of what doesn't. Just like an experiment! When the time is right (she smiles a lot & seems receptive to you) ask her out to something you enjoy: symphony, the museum, rock climbing, canoeing, volunteer to build houses for poor ppl together.... whatever. Most importantly, tho, TALK to her about things that are important to her & to you. Be fun & funny with depth & w/out guile.

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I would like a relationship but I haven't been attracted to a woman that way in a long time. So I don't know, hook ups are the only potential views on women I have. Honestly from the distant view there are just attractive girls and not attractive girls...I don't have that "sincerely interested" in girl. I don't count on it happening anytime soon either. Be witty? Clever? funny? evoke her emotions? in a slow way? Do what works and doesn't? you sound like Grscorp :surprised .

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Originally Posted by vashti [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

What's up with the war analogies?

Weird.

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Yea, the war analogies suck. I'm not at war with women here, if so than my enemy carried me for 9 months and gave birth to me.

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Originally Posted by Only-virgins [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

maybe being rejected by a girl one time, I was younger so that made me feel a bit regretful that I bothered. I haven't had to many embarrassing moments, kind of for the reason that I avoid them like the plague.

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Now, before we take care of every question with the attention it deserves, let's start with this one..

I'm going to take this a little slow, because the first thing i've noticed is that you scan/sum.. It doesn't make it impossible, just a little more challenging.. for me..

But back to you.. So.. there was something that happened with some girl under some circumstances.. It must have been a very special girl.. Obviously not anymore.. but at that moment, i'm sure you had some powerful forces in place, motivating you to take that risk for her.. That's usually the case.. not to try and generalize what happened to you or anything.. But I remember what it felt like.. There was this girl named Pamela back in school (that's her real name, btw).. Now that I look at her, I feel like such an idiot to have ever had such feelings for her.. now she's short, chubby, and not at all that attractive, if you would ask me to go out with her now, i'd have to politely decline.. but back then, I don't know what it was about her, but she had that special something.. At that moment, she was warm, friendly, happy, cute, sweet, adorable.. When i'd hear the sound of her voice talk to me and say my name, my ears would tingle.. when she would look at me, i'd gaze deep into her eyes and get lost in her smile for what seemed like hours in what was really only seconds.. but what really made me melt was when she stood next to me during choir, and our arms and legs would brush against eachother.. I hated singing, I always thought it was gay.. but at that moment, I was like those guys who join yoga classes to be next to that someone they fancy.. Anyway.. I don't remember how it happened exactly, but at some point I asked her if she wanted to hang out during the weekend, she was the first person I ever asked out.. and to add to that first.. the first "no" I ever heard.. I believe she said something like "I'm sorry, but i'm really busy".. I got the message, I was young, no student of DeAngelo's yet, but I wasn't an idiot.. I remember feeling numb at that moment.. I litterally felt "nothing" both emotionally and physically.. It wasn't until I got home that I started to feel upset.. it took a while, but the feelings started to build up fast.. The first thing I stopped doing was talking to my friends.. I just wanted to be alone.. When I realized that wasn't helping, I started feeling hate.. at her.. at myself.. I hated the way I felt at that moment.. like a failure, a loser, unwanted & unloved.. I didn't want to feel that way again anytime soon.. and to be perfectly honest with you.. I didn't ask out an other girl for well over a year until I finished with a seminar/workshop I was attending..

Now, I'm sure her name wasn't Pamela, and i'm sure a lot of details in your story are quite different from mine, but one thing that's the same is how it left us feeling.. which is normal.. that's just how every guy would feel if someone they really cared about didn't feel the same way..

What I want to know.. (whenever you have the time to give this some thought).. Is when did she say "no"? How did she say it?.. and how did you feel like after it happened? What were the thoughts that where racing through your mind?

Take as much time as you need OV..

Best,

GrkScorp

yeah ov. take your whole life if you want. hopefully there's a picture of her on your bed stand so you can remind yourself of your love every day.

let your obsession continue to be a succubus in your life.

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Originally Posted by misombra [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

yeah ov. take your whole life if you want. hopefully there's a picture of her on your bed stand so you can remind yourself of your love every day.

let your obsession continue to be a succubus in your life.

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Yeah yeah.. therapy c0ck-block.. we get it.. ha ha.. funny.. now seriously..

OV is clearly not interested in "her" anymore.. and he's not about to do that, nor was I suggesting he do so.. I just want to get a feel of the whole picture.. I have a pretty good idea of what's going on already.. but we're not going to get there until i'm 100% sure..

Show OV some respect.. he started this thread because he wants change.. he's seeking to improve his sense of identity.. and that's not going to happen with the aid of backround noise and other rude distractions.. So, please show some respect for OV and give him the comfort he needs to express himself fully.. thanks

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Originally Posted by GrkScorp [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Yeah yeah.. therapy c0ck-block.. we get it.. ha ha.. funny.. now seriously..

OV is clearly not interested in "her" anymore.. and he's not about to do that, nor was I suggesting he do so.. I just want to get a feel of the whole picture.. I have a pretty good idea of what's going on already.. but we're not going to get there until i'm 100% sure..

Show OV some respect.. he started this thread because he wants change.. he's seeking to improve his sense of identity.. and that's not going to happen with the aid of backround noise and other rude distractions.. So, please show some respect for OV and give him the comfort he needs to express himself fully.. thanks

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i can say whatever i want.

i don't think ov wants to change. i think he wants justification to continue his obsession.

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Originally Posted by GrkScorp [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Show OV some respect.. he started this thread because he wants change.. he's seeking to improve his sense of identity.. and that's not going to happen with the aid of backround noise and other rude distractions.. So, please show some respect for OV and give him the comfort he needs to express himself fully.. thanks

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I agree with this. Just stop w/the mind**** type lingo & I think we'll all get along just fine. You are NOT a psychologist, despite your pretentions to such (your last post was a perfect example of this). I said before it just muddles the info. If you really feel its necessary as an example, then state it as such. OV, as you now realize, is quite the intellect so, ironically, the only one who has been disrespecting OV is you. We all understand how bright he is.

BTW, GS, on the chance this is news to you, perhaps you should take a look at your own inability to drop the 'act'. I've seen ppl get stuck in Pysch mode like this & its terrible for them. Just a quick aside for your own benefit.

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Originally Posted by Only-virgins [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Is that the Neuro linguistic programming thing? I know about it.

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Yes. Its pseudo science & the ppl who try to use it do not (usually) have any formal training in psychology. Think of monkeys playing with a cigarette lighter. GS posts to you have been riddled with drops from this type of thing. I think you get this, so I don't need to keep harping on it. BTW, that's his issue to deal with and doesn't mean there's nothing to learn from him, just be aware of the context of things. This is why Miso said to take things w/a grain of salt. You'll do this naturally, but its good to say b/c you're not the only one following this thread.

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Originally Posted by Only-virgins [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Doesn't putting myself in the biggest group(quantity) raise the probability of me finding that great one(quality)?

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Yes, of course. You need to meet TONS of girls to figure out: 1. what you actually want, 2. how to meet her. But beware that you don't lose someone really great in the process of using 'the game'. Sometimes, luck happens & she will be there sooner than you expect, life can be unpredictable that way. I would suggest you pick & choose from the methods you read & avoid turning away someone who might be your 'keeper' by avoiding the 'asshole' techniques. GS may tell you to ignore this advice, but remember the context: he isn't coming from a place of a successful LTR.

Personally, I was much more attracted to men like Sphinx, Mish, Fras or Cam (my husband is this sort) who has confidence w/o these games. But the dilemma is *getting* to that point of confidence, I understand. And I think there is SOME benefit to some of these confidence techniques to separate the wheat from the chaff. Particularly focus on the ones that involve YOUR self-control (as opposed to controlling others--that's just ego sop).

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Originally Posted by Only-virgins [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I would like a relationship but I haven't been attracted to a woman that way in a long time. So I don't know, hook ups are the only potential views on women I have.

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Yes, so again, volume is key. Agreed. But when you see quality, how will you know? And what will you do so she isn't turned off by 'game'. B/c, despite what GS says, he has little experience w/women who won't take kindly to attempts at manipulation. In my case, I ignored men like this. I didn't despise them exactly, but I found them too superficial, too wedded to a 'method' that they themselves didn't actually understand the utility of. Or when it should be dropped. Don't be like that.

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Originally Posted by Only-virgins [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Be witty? Clever? funny? evoke her emotions? in a slow way? Do what works and doesn't? you sound like Grscorp :surprised.

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I already said I agree with SOME of what GS says. I don't need to give specifics b/c he is already doing so. I WILL tell you when I think he's full of it, tho, and why. All the things that have to do w/learning to control YOURSELF in an interaction is key. That advice about not showing TOO much interest to that girl & leaving off before things decayed into awkwardness was perfect. But the stuff about subtle insults to girls (or anyone), being mean to strangers in bars--that stuff is all shit & there is no %age in it except to try to artificially build up one's ego at the expense of another. Or to impress shallow women who are into abusive guys.

Monkeys w/lighters still manage to set trees on fire, just that most will also eventually burn themselves in the process. Some get smart, tho, and learn to keep a bucket of water close by. LOL, sorry, I'm feeling amusing today. ;)

This is just as true for women as for men, BTW.

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Originally Posted by IndiReloaded [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Personally, I was much more attracted to men like Sphinx, Mish, Fras or Cam (my husband is this sort) who has confidence w/o these games.

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Mmm, the feeling is mutual ;)

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Originally Posted by IndiReloaded [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

But the dilemma is *getting* to that point of confidence, I understand. And I think there is SOME benefit to some of these confidence techniques to separate the wheat from the chaff. Particularly focus on the ones that involve YOUR self-control (as opposed to controlling others--that's just ego sop).

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What I like about Scorp is that he seems to have the "Approach and initiation" technique worked out quite well. I think all those books and experience are paying dividents in this area. Approach and initiation are very important in the sense that this is "do / repeat" process you need to go through in order to find a good match. You need to be not just good at it, but "sweep them of their feet" and, once you break it down it's not too complicated. You just have to look good, be funny, be interesting and create value for the girl. You have to be that perfect guy she's always wanted to be with and once that feeling is in all other patterns follow from there.

I've done it a couple of times and I saw that "spell" women fall under. It would be great to be able to cast that spell over and over again. It would make finding a good match so much easier.

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Originally Posted by IndiReloaded [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

when you see quality, how will you know?

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Didn't you answer it in the first part. When I SEE quality, how will I know? Well, I'm seeing it right?

I don't think GS is trying to show me how to aggravate and annoy women. Those were things in other threads anyways. The walking away thing is completely not me and since even you say that is a good thing and works I have to learn things like that. I for some reason have this dumb logical brain that tells me I should you know...keep talking to the person I like...probably cause it freaking damn it makes sense..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by IndiReloaded [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I agree with this. Just stop w/the mind**** type lingo & I think we'll all get along just fine. You are NOT a psychologist, despite your pretentions to such (your last post was a perfect example of this). I said before it just muddles the info. If you really feel its necessary as an example, then state it as such. OV, as you now realize, is quite the intellect so, ironically, the only one who has been disrespecting OV is you. We all understand how bright he is.

BTW, GS, on the chance this is news to you, perhaps you should take a look at your own inability to drop the 'act'. I've seen ppl get stuck in Pysch mode like this & its terrible for them. Just a quick aside for your own benefit.

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Indi.. I think it's been long understood despite you trying desperately to push a moot point.. that i'm not a psychologist nor a psych major..

I've studied much on the subject though, and i've helped many guys and girls (mostly guys) get on with their lives.. (school, relationships, work problems, esteem issues, mild depression)

Now, OV is just days away from feeling great about the wonderful person that he is.. it's a realization process.. it's not magic.. it's not psychology.. it's just conversation.. what i'm curious about is why YOU are offering such resistance to this? You really don't like seeing guys happy do you?

OV, if you'd still like to continue this conversation, which is almost finished, feel free to PM me.. I came to realize many things today while sitting in the bathroom looking at the water drops rolling down the shower door.. and while singing "A whole new world"..

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Originally Posted by GrkScorp [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Indi.. I think it's been long understood despite you trying desperately to push a moot point.. that i'm not a psychologist nor a psych major..

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No, actually this is the first time you have admitted such explicitly. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by GrkScorp [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I've studied much on the subject though, and i've helped many guys and girls (mostly guys) get on with their lives.. (school, relationships, work problems, esteem issues, mild depression)

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I respect your experience, GS. Its just different from the experience that others have, including my own. There are many paths; you have found one that works for you & that is terrific but it may not be a perfect fit for everyone.

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Originally Posted by GrkScorp [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Now, OV is just days away from feeling great about the wonderful person that he is.. it's a realization process.. it's not magic.. it's not psychology.. it's just conversation.. what i'm curious about is why YOU are offering such resistance to this? You really don't like seeing guys happy do you?

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GS, stop being a baby, please. This must be the first time anyone w/any depth of knowledge has actually called you on your methods. This will be good for you, then. OV knows explicitly my motives b/c I've told him. Its not to prevent his 'self-actualization', LOL.

Consider that once again, you resort to generalization & hyperbole. I was explicit in my examples of what ideas I think problematic & what I agreed with.

Since you don't seem to have experience or training discussing IDEAS, I will be explicit: don't take this personally. Not everyone will agree w/you, that's just how it is. My experiences & others disagree w/yours. Feel free to disagree w/these ideas likewise, but respond w/o pysch & without appeal to emotional/rhetorical methods or I will call you on it. Doing so guarantees a clearer, richer learning experience for everyone. I hope I'm being clear enough on this? B/c you are right, this is OVs thread. If you want me to psychoanalyze YOU, start your own thread. ;)

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Originally Posted by Only-virgins [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Didn't you answer it in the first part. When I SEE quality, how will I know? Well, I'm seeing it right?

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My bad. Women are less explicitly visual than men. I meant 'see' in an overall sense. "Quality" means different things to different ppl. Have you generated an actual list, either outright or mental as to your 'Top 5' traits you want/need in a partner? By quality, I mean someone who pings most or all of those w/o any dealbreakers.

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Originally Posted by Only-virgins [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I don't think GS is trying to show me how to aggravate and annoy women. Those were things in other threads anyways.

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There were some, for sure, that would definitely irritate women who are wise to the 'game'. I or someone else will point them out when they come up. Beyond that, its up to you to decide what to do.

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Originally Posted by Only-virgins [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

The walking away thing is completely not me and since even you say that is a good thing and works I have to learn things like that. I for some reason have this dumb logical brain that tells me I should you know...keep talking to the person I like...probably cause it freaking damn it makes sense..

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I was reluctant to post this (its a work in progress) but your learning style is knowledge-based, OV, so I think this will help. Just remember you have to actually *apply* what you read. And don't mess w/your own 'deep tape' too much, man, it will make you nuts.

GS, if you navigate this site, use your power for good, not evil, okay? ;)

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