How to get out...?

I'm not defending the OP, just to be clear. But the fact that she cheated on her partner probably means that the relationship was 'over' long before it was over, if that makes any sense.

That seems to be often true for women, Mish, just for your mental file. The women I know who are divorced 'left' their husbands emotionally long before they left the relationship. The men are often devastated, claiming surprise at the relationship failure when the women leaves. Now, mbe these women didn't try, or mbe their spouses didn't try or ignored the warning signs (its not for me to judge) but that seems to be the pattern I've observed.

Be vigilant about your relationship health. Don't be paranoid, but do things to keep it actively loving & healthy. Complacency is the death of many (I think) otherwise perfectly decent relationships.

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Originally Posted by lesa [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

What if I decide to be adventurous or spontaneous and marry a man I just met or I have a relationship with him for about six months or even two years and then we married versus a 5+ year long-term relationship?

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This is just my opinion, of course. But, if there was no stated agreement in the 5+ year relationship, then yes I would put it 'lower' than the marriage.

But I think anyone who would marry out of adventure or spontaneity is foolish beyond description. I wouldn't put any store by such a persons ability to hold any relationship, married or LTR. I don't know about anyone else's marriage ceremony, but I felt the seriousness of the vows come down on me like a crushing mental weight when I was married. It was no joke.

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Originally Posted by IndiReloaded [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

That seems to be often true for women, Mish, just for your mental file. The women I know who are divorced 'left' their husbands emotionally long before they left the relationship. The men are often devastated, claiming surprise at the relationship failure when the women leaves. Now, mbe these women didn't try, or mbe their spouses didn't try or ignored the warning signs (its not for me to judge) but that seems to be the pattern I've observed.

Be vigilant about your relationship health. Don't be paranoid, but do things to keep it actively loving & healthy. Complacency is the death of many (I think) otherwise perfectly decent relationships.

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I agree again. Relationship is like a child it needs to be nurtured for it to grow. There is a work entitlement and responsibility on both partners to maintain the health of the relationship. The moment that work stops is the moment relationship starts to die a slow death.

Personally, I'm over the romantisized notion of relationships. Although it's great to be infatuated I'm not scared for the moment infatuation ends and I look forward to finding ways to just make it work (unless I've already exhausted all available options).

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Originally Posted by Mishanya [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

You're right I don't understand. If true love is what is left when infatuation dies down, then how will she ever be able to be attached if all she is after is infatuation?

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You left out the most important part of my original statement. Love is what is left over after infatuation wears down if you are lucky. I already said this guy wasn't lucky. Not every relationship is meant to be.

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Originally Posted by IndiReloaded [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Mish, consider this thread is restimulating certain events of your own.

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Bingo.

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Originally Posted by lastwish [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

And whats with the personal attacks?

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Ooh, the sensitive sort, are ya? :D

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Originally Posted by IndiReloaded [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

This is just my opinion, of course. But, if there was no stated agreement in the 5+ year relationship, then yes I would put it 'lower' than the marriage.

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Absolutely.

Funny, only people who have never been married think LTRs are somehow equivalent to marriage. If they were equivalent, there wouldn't be so many people balking at taking the plunge.

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Originally Posted by vashti [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

You left out the most important part of my original statement. Love is what is left over after infatuation wears down if you are lucky. I already said this guy wasn't lucky. Not every relationship is meant to be.

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I like this comment. I believe it is very true and will keep it in mind.

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Funny, only people who have never been married think LTRs are somehow equivalent to marriage. If they were equivalent, there wouldn't be so many people balking at taking the plunge.

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Nope, I definitely do not take marriage lightly....not even a tiny bit. Marriage is very serious. That's why I thought long and hard. I told my partner that divorce is not in my vocabulary and hopefully never will. Marriage is NOT the same as a LTR. I am in fact very conservative on my views of marriage...I am merely stimulating my mind. I like to allow myself to see all side, if possible. But I have not change my mind about the seriousness that one should take marriage...nothing has change my mind yet.

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Originally Posted by vashti [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

You left out the most important part of my original statement. Love is what is left over after infatuation wears down if you are lucky. I already said this guy wasn't lucky. Not every relationship is meant to be.

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If it's not meant to be then it should be ended early. Not extended for a period of 4 years with a quick escape afterwards with no work to make things better imo. Infatuation doesn't take so long to wear out, most of the time you're at that stage after year one.

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Originally Posted by vashti [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Funny, only people who have never been married think LTRs are somehow equivalent to marriage. If they were equivalent, there wouldn't be so many people balking at taking the plunge.

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I never said they were equivalent. Just that they have a lot more in common than LTR and casual dating.

Sorry, but you just aren't going to convince me that a person is obligated to do ANYTHING before they are married that has not been explicitly agreed to. I don't care if they dated 4 years.

I think the problem with this situation is that she knew it wasn't going anywhere long before today and she just strung him along. It's good that she's doing the right thing now, but it shouldn't have happened this long.

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Originally Posted by vashti [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Sorry, but you just aren't going to convince me that a person is obligated to do ANYTHING before they are married that has not been explicitly agreed to. I don't care if they dated 4 years.

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You don't believe one can explicitly agree to be in a serious committed relationship with commitment to look after their partner without signing a legal document?

There are many people in serious committed relationships who are not married Vash. Miso is one of them. Marriage is not where committment begins. If it was no one would be married, you need a substantial period of committed relationship time before marriage, people would simply not get to that stage.

Whatever makes you happy. I don't care to argue about this anymore. I don't feel she owes him anything more than the gentlest possible breakup, and I am not going to be convinced otherwise.

I do think your motives for believing she does owe him more are very much connected with your own dating history, though. You might want to examine that.

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Originally Posted by vashti [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Whatever makes you happy. I don't care to argue about this anymore. I don't feel she owes him anything more than the gentlest possible breakup, and I am not going to be convinced otherwise.

I do think your motives for believing she does owe him more are very much connected with your own dating history, though. You might want to examine that.

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I don't have a history of that in relationships and I feel like she shouldn't have strung him along. She knew it wasn't going anywhere as evidenced by the fact she stated that was the reason she cheated on him.

She doesn't have to stay. It's good that she's leaving. But to string him along for years when she knew it wasn't going to work is only going to bring more hurt his way.

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Originally Posted by vashti [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I do think your motives for believing she does owe him more are very much connected with your own dating history, though.

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No, noone has ever made a quick escape on me. All past break ups in my long term relationships were either initiated by me or were mutual. The break up in my relationship last year was mutual as well. I decided I didn't want to baby seat her anymore and she decided she's had enough of my antiques.

breakups are part-and-parcel of relationships. What on earth's so hard to accept about that? If you want a "guarantee" that your partner is never going to leave you, get married. Isn't that, above all, what differentiates a marriage from a relationship? An explicit, (though obviously not always honoured), guarantee that you are going to stay together, no matter what.

It's fairly clear the people nursing perceived romantic injustices in this thread. There is nothing wrong with ending a relationship. Of course it causes hurt, but that's unavoidable and there is an implicit acceptance of that risk when anyone begins a romantic relationship, in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Boy II [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

breakups are part-and-parcel of relationships. What on earth's so hard to accept about that? If you want a "guarantee" that your partner is never going to leave you, get married. Isn't that, above all, what differentiates a marriage from a relationship? An explicit, (though obviously not always honoured), guarantee that you are going to stay together, no matter what.

It's fairly clear the people nursing perceived romantic injustices in this thread. There is nothing wrong with ending a relationship. Of course it causes hurt, but that's unavoidable and there is an implicit acceptance of that risk when anyone begins a romantic relationship, in my opinion.

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I'm in a spot where I agree with vash and mish to an extent. I agree with vash that she has every right to end this relationship. There was no agreement to stay together. Until marriage, it's just a relationship.

But I agree with mish that she should have ended it sooner as to avoid more hurt. Just because they weren't married doesn't mean she can rightfully string him along for as long as she chooses. She knew the relationship was ending a lot sooner than now.

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Originally Posted by Cain [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Just because they weren't married doesn't mean she can rightfully string him along for as long as she chooses. She knew the relationship was ending a lot sooner than now.

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Yes, she should have. And HE should have been alert to the fact that something was wrong. I have NO doubt there were signs.

Charlie already said it. If you decide to enter any relationship, its really caveat emptor (buyer beware).

There's a reason for the phrase 'Eyes Wide Shut' in relationships. While sometimes its necessary, it also causes a lot of unnecessary problems & prolonged pain when taken to extremes.

Cain, I know you have issues with cheating and such and that's fine if you keep bringing it up. What is not fine with me is you repeating that I have been leading him on all this time. First, I entered the relationship with the intention, up until about a year ago, of marrying him and having his children. Second, there are elements to the history of our relationship that you don't know and it's very arrogant of you to make that kind of statement. Just an example: the recent, very premature and very unexpected, death of his mother.

I am not trying to justify the cheating or the fact that I am basically having an emotional affair in the meantime with another person. I am just saying that it's easier said than done to just "break up" when certain things happen in a relationship, whether there are kids or not, or marriage. That's why I started the thread, to ask for help and advice, not to be told that I am leading him on. I know the reasons for which I am still with him and only I need to know them. It's obvious that after over 4 years of being with this person almost constantly, I do care about not hurting him, and it's my priority now to do the least amount of damage possible to his ego and his life in general. But like Indi said, there undoubtedly were signs, conflicts, and all the rest. Things still haven't changed. And now there's complacency. And my guilty conscience. And the need for the things that are missing between us.

And just as a side note, i only just recently realized that there wasn't actual chemistry between us. Partially because I met someone with whom there WAS that real, rare thing that clicked, and partially just because now after years, we really don't have that much to say to each other. It's sad and it breaks my heart.

Regardless of whether you lost interest in this relationship a year ago or three years ago, the point is that you still knew in your heart this relationship wasn't going to work and you just strung him along. My opinion of cheating has nothing to do with this. The only reason I mention your cheating in this thread is because your reasons for cheating were because there was something missing in the relationship and that you knew you and he were having major issues that couldn't be worked out. If you knew it then, why did you not just end it then?

You make it seem like you were doing him a favor by not breaking his heart when his mother died. In fact, I think it might have been around the best time do to it. At least then his heart would be broken only once in a two year period. Now you're going to break his heart again just because you didn't want to be the bad guy when his mom died.

Like I said, I'm glad you're finally going to end it with him so he can move on and find someone that will truly love him and hopefully you can someday do the same. You want to minimize the hurt? That's not going to really happen. He's going to be extremely hurt no matter what unless he knew deep down the relationship was over.

Just end it. Don't waste another few months thinking of the best way. Get it over with. And in my opinion, he deserves to know you cheated on him just like you'd deserve to know if he cheated on you. The anger that he might feel can help him get over it a lot quicker.

I think he does know it's over. I just wish that instead of me having to be the one to initiate, it could just be mutual. He keeps saying he's the stronger one between us, but he's the one who is clinging to something he knows isn't working.

Maybe he'll surprise you and be completely fine with the breakup. But you need to do it asap. The longer it takes the harder it'll be.

Oh that would hurt... she's all expecting him to fall apart and he's coo see ya.

Why would that hurt? She should HOPE that he feels that way, otherwise she's hoping to hurt him.

Just cuz she's thinking OMG he's so in love with me and turns eh not so much. oh well.

Only a cold-hearted bitch would feel hurt that the guy she's about to break up with isn't hurt by it.

Geezus Cain, put a sock in it already. You are waaaay too much into blame.

What is, IS. No going back, only forward.

Twisted, guilt is an overrated concept. You sound like you are quite aware of your issues & you are working on trying to improve. That is all any of us (except for those of us born perfect) are able to do. Just make sure you are being honest with yourself.

Its true, the person doing the breakup often has to be the stronger one. And you can't usually expect your partner to help. In fact, for a relationship of this length, you can expect that your partner will actively resist your breakup & become completely irrational. Its what happens when ppls feelings get badly hurt. Just suck it up.

I DO think that the longer you drag this out, the more hurt there will be all around. So I suggest you make your final decision (stay or go) asap & then do the things that are consistent with that decision. Its not fair to keep him in limbo the way you seem to be doing.

And remember, the next person you date will likely make a judgement about you by how you handle your current break. Not even considering that you will need to be able to look at yourself in the mirror.

Good luck, hun. Its a tough thing, I know.

Put a sock in it? No thanks.

I'm saying pretty much the same thing everyone else is. Yeah, I take it a little farther. Tough shit.

I don't blame anyone for the relationship falling apart. All I do is put a little blame on her for stretching it out longer than she should have? What's the big deal?

The big deal is that it makes YOU look like an ass for beating a dead horse with a stick.

WE KNOW. You keep repeating it. I'm starting to think you are OCD.

When you grow up, you will learn that continually beating someone for something they already know is a mistake doesn't do anything to improve a situation.

So I can only conclude that you aren't actually trying to help anyone. Just trying to make yourself feel better by trying to make them feel bad.

That's a sad way to live, Cain. You're a candidate for an emotional abuser, watch out for that.

Think about it. And save your 'whatevers' for someone who doesn't peer into brains as well as I do.

I'll never repeat myself again, on topic or not.

what irritates (and bores) me most about this place is the f-ckwits like Cain who use the forums as a pulpit to push their own petty moral agendas.

Despite how those people obviously view themselves, continually passing judgement on people does make you one of the "others", one of the "good people". I've found those people usually turn out to be nothing more than mean-spirited hypocrites.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Boy II [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

what irritates (and bores) me most about this place is the f-ckwits like Cain who use this place as a pulpit to push their own petty moral agendas.

Despite how those people obviously view themselves, continually passing judgement on people does make you one of the "others", one of the "good people". I've found those people usually turn out to be nothing more than mean-spirited hypocrites.

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Oh **** off. Just because you don't agree with my moral stance on some shit doesn't mean my reasons for coming here are any different than yours.

And point out any time I prove to be a hypocrite. Anything I am morally against... I don't do.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Boy II [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

what irritates (and bores) me most about this place is the f-ckwits like Cain who use the forums as a pulpit to push their own petty moral agendas.

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Oh no. Please don't fight. I think Cain is a good guy. You too, CB.

Anyway, I certainly have a 'moral agenda' on here. Shrug. I think it should all be 'peace, love, harmony'.

In other words, I'm a damn hippie who thinks we should just be ****ing all the time. When we aren't reading books, & saving the world, lol.

Hey, that's not a bad idea. Its Friday, so I think I'll sign off early & go do just that. The first part, I'm too tired to save the world today. :D

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Originally Posted by vashti [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Whatever makes you happy. I don't care to argue about this anymore. I don't feel she owes him anything more than the gentlest possible breakup, and I am not going to be convinced otherwise.

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Even if she owes him, so what? Nobody can do anything about it anymore. He's going to be hurt. Thats it. But what Twisted needs to understand is how dangerous it is to enter a long term relationship and have a lack of of committment. Or to think someone is the "one" when there wasn't much chemistry.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Boy II [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

If you want a "guarantee" that your partner is never going to leave you, get married.

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Marriage isn't a gurantee either. Like Mish said, committment begins in relationships, not marriage.

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Originally Posted by twisted [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I am just saying that it's easier said than done to just "break up" when certain things happen in a relationship, whether there are kids or not, or marriage. That's why I started the thread, to ask for help and advice, not to be told that I am leading him on. I know the reasons for which I am still with him and only I need to know them. It's obvious that after over 4 years of being with this person almost constantly, I do care about not hurting him, and it's my priority now to do the least amount of damage possible to his ego and his life in general. But like Indi said, there undoubtedly were signs, conflicts, and all the rest. Things still haven't changed. And now there's complacency. And my guilty conscience. And the need for the things that are missing between us.

And just as a side note, i only just recently realized that there wasn't actual chemistry between us. Partially because I met someone with whom there WAS that real, rare thing that clicked, and partially just because now after years, we really don't have that much to say to each other. It's sad and it breaks my heart.

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Twisted. I'm sorry if I came off as being offensive. But the reason I posted in your thread is because I want to help YOU, not to tell you how awful of a person you. But after you break if off with him, you have to reflect on the mistake you've done. And yes, it is a mistake. The mistake is not because you took a chance with him and he was just unlucky...the mistake is that you haven't been listening to yourself the whole time. Be courageous (i know its not easy) and break off relationships that you aren't really feeling. I know...he should have looked out for the signs. But you also have the responsibility to look out for yourself as well as his feelings. I'm not trying to force my view on you. I guess I have been hurt before and I have hurt someone as well. So I know how it feels both ways. The thing that I regret the most is how I hurt one guy years ago. I'm just trying to defend this guy you are going to hurt really bad since he can't be present in the forum to defend himself.

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Originally Posted by IndiReloaded [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

The big deal is that it makes YOU look like an ass for beating a dead horse with a stick.

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I think cain like some of us are is just trying to stress the importance of not taking this break-up lightly. I personally think he's nice guy judging from his posts.

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Originally Posted by lastwish [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I think cain like some of us are is just trying to stress the importance of not taking this break-up lightly. I personally think he's nice guy judging from his posts.

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Exactly. I insulted her enough in her cheating thread. I've TRIED to help in this thread, but when responding to certain people, I've reiterated a couple of things.

My whole purpose for my posts was to let her know that this was going to be hard. He's going to be hurt no matter what but the longer she waits the worse it's going to be. Then I wanted to show what some of the things she could have done better are so she can know what to avoid the next time this kind of thing happens... mostly that if she feels like it isn't working... get out. Nothing is stopping her from moving on.

I'm concerned a bit about u cuz my ex went through something similar. He broke up w/me cuz he wanted freedom. Then changed his mind but it was too late by then. He was afraid of being stuck w/me in a relationship and never know what else could be for him. Then he emails me and tells me how much of a mistake he made. Personally I don't think it was a mistake. It was the best thing for the both of us. I didn't see it then but I see it now.

I just hope you really really have thought this through. Don't be affraid of being affraid. It'll be ok. He'll be hurt but get over it. You'll be hurt too but u'll get over it too. Just remind him that just because you're not right for each other doesn't make either you wrong or bad.

Good luck

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Originally Posted by Cain [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Exactly. I insulted her enough in her cheating thread. I've TRIED to help in this thread, but when responding to certain people, I've reiterated a couple of things.

My whole purpose for my posts was to let her know that this was going to be hard. He's going to be hurt no matter what but the longer she waits the worse it's going to be. Then I wanted to show what some of the things she could have done better are so she can know what to avoid the next time this kind of thing happens... mostly that if she feels like it isn't working... get out. Nothing is stopping her from moving on.

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Bullshit Cain, you carried on in exactly the same way, but worse, in that other thread. The one where the girl had cheated on her boyfriend. You could see the foam forming at the corners of your mouth. You weren't helping, just trying to punish. And your rage at these situations, which actually don't affect you in any way, is obviouly you just projecting your own fears and insecurities onto these people and their situations.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Boy II [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Bullshit Cain, you carried on in exactly the same way, but worse, in that other thread. The one where the girl had cheated on her boyfriend. You could see the foam forming at the corners of your mouth. You weren't helping, just trying to punish. And your rage at these situations, which actually don't affect you in any way, is obviouly you just projecting your own fears and insecurities onto these people and their situations.

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Yeah, that's it.

If you don't like my posts, ignore me. Until you do that, blow me.

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Originally Posted by IndiReloaded [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Anyway, I certainly have a 'moral agenda' on here. Shrug. I think it should all be 'peace, love, harmony'.

In other words, I'm a damn hippie who thinks we should just be ****ing all the time. When we aren't reading books, & saving the world, lol.

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My moral agenda is to enjoy life and not take it so seriously yet do take it seriously. I want to promote others to allow themselves to understand another point of view and to be understood as well. My main agenda is to continue to open my mind and allow myself to understand the perspective that others have and to grow as a compassionate human being.
:D

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Originally Posted by Cain [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

If you don't like my posts, ignore me. Until you do that, blow me.

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I think I'll take the "ignore" option.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Boy II [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

what irritates (and bores) me most about this place is the f-ckwits like Cain who use the forums as a pulpit to push their own petty moral agendas.

Despite how those people obviously view themselves, continually passing judgement on people does make you one of the "others", one of the "good people". I've found those people usually turn out to be nothing more than mean-spirited hypocrites.

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And there is no arguing w/ those type of people because in their mind their opinion is ALWAYS right. If you do argue with them they don't listen to your side of the story, their whole focus is "I'm right, you're wrong".

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Originally Posted by Tone [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

And there is no arguing w/ those type of people because in their mind their opinion is ALWAYS right. If you do argue with them they don't listen to your side of the story, their whole focus is "I'm right, you're wrong".

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You can feel free to put me on ignore too.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Boy II [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

breakups are part-and-parcel of relationships. What on earth's so hard to accept about that? If you want a "guarantee" that your partner is never going to leave you, get married. Isn't that, above all, what differentiates a marriage from a relationship? An explicit, (though obviously not always honoured), guarantee that you are going to stay together, no matter what.

It's fairly clear the people nursing perceived romantic injustices in this thread. There is nothing wrong with ending a relationship. Of course it causes hurt, but that's unavoidable and there is an implicit acceptance of that risk when anyone begins a romantic relationship, in my opinion.

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That's right there is no guarantee, even in marriage. But if no one tries to make a relationship work, then what's the point having a relationship? Why should people have relationships all together? Because I'm telling you the easiest thing for me as a guy is not to have a relationship, they are too much work. The easiest thing for me is to go out and screw random girls, it's fun, it's easy. I don't need to have concern for anyone's feelings, I can just do it and move on.

Relationships are essentially pointless if both partners don't try to make it work, that's why I only enter them with the end in mind that there will be issues and both are committed to resolving them from the very beginning. In fact, I communicate that exact thing to my partner at the start of every relationship. If they don't agree, then I break it off straight away. I know they wil just be a waste of my time.