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Yeah, I have thought of that too. When I am away I am pretty bored most of the time, and she knows that. I wouldn't mind having some company.
But, I'm concerned about "2 can play that game". I would hate to do it just to demonstrate that your future spouse going out on dates is upseting. But, as I said, I do get bored. So, it might happen, just to save my sanity.
if you don't listen to us and dump this girl, you're gonna be fuked.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVVxGY_7I5k&feature=related"]YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.[/ame]
In my head, I know you are right. But, I feel that I have to give her the opportunity to mature a little, and see the light. She's worth the risk.
The latest: She wonders if I have some sort of "complex" because I don't think she should be forming new relationships with guys and going out alone with them.
I think she has absolutely no idea that my views are "the norm" from both a man's perspective and woman's perspective. She just has no idea of how quickly an acquaintance can turn into something romantic/sexual.
Before we move forward I am going to insist on a few things from her:
1) If I am out of the country when she meets these men, the three of us have to get together as soon as it is possible after I return. If I'm in the country then I must be allowed to go along.
2) If she begins to feel anything for these guys, either sexually or romantically she has to stop seeing them immediately
3) She has to tell me the details that might upset me (for example she didn't tell me that one guy tried to hug her good-bye)
4) That she understands and accepts that what I am agreeing to (her forming new relationships with men-going out alone) is quite irregular and that she understands why establishing relationships with new men is so much more dangerous to us than the existing relationships she has with her old male friends
One out of four. That's what she gave me. She said I can go out with her and her male friends.
She believes that it is normal and expected that men will be ok with their fiancee going out individually with new men. She does admit that perhaps the fact that she is going out with men she meets on the Internet may be a bit unusual. But, certainly any man she meets any other way is perfectly OK for her to go out with alone. No one could doubt that being OK.
She refuses to tell me details of these "outings" that might upset me. For example, she shook the hand of the last fellow and he said "is that all I get?". She won't volunteer information such as that. I must ask the correct questions and if I do, she will answer it truthfully.
And finally, she will go out on individual "outings" with men who she is sexually and/or romantically attracted to even while engaged to me and supposedly "exclusive" to each other. She says "If you are trying to stop me, I am afraid I will become curious and desiring those things in an ill manner. I count on my mind, moral carriers, experience and intuition and other things to be circut brakers. Bad things can happen in unexpected ways, and you can't guess them all."
I don't think there is any need for anyone to respond. I think it was all said in previous posts.
I am just here to share what I thought was impossible: that she thinks it is perfectly ok to go out on "outings" with men she is sexually and/or romantically attracted to while engaged to me and supposedly in an exclusive relationship.
Wow.
So many sweet, decent girls with total bozos and now this. This is just salt in the wound.
Would you PLEASE ditch this unbelievable hussie and find a good girl that deserves your love? This one is just... awful.
I'm still going to respond:
See you back on the board in tears when you find out she wasn't able to keep herself within the boundaries, and cheats on you with one of these so-called 'friends'. Damn.
Hey, blue, let's hook up your sister with this guy. Isn't she getting divorced?
No, she's back with the guy. They're not married but they have a kid together.
She really needs some male attention right now though.....
Your girlfriend is a whore.
And you're a pussy.
You need a slap in the face, not her.
Not sure if anyone has yet had the curtisy to give you this bit of advice.
GROW A GOD DAMN BALL SACK AND TELL HER YOU DONT EVER WANT TO SEE HER AGAIN!
Yeah, we did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Justplaying5050 [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
Actually, replace a weeks supply of birth control with placebos, dont have sex with her, and when the shit hits the fan say "peace!"
Yes. This is all but over. If she wakes up in the morning and has had some sort of illumination and tells me that I am a right, then things go onward. Otherwise they do not.
There is no point in trying to reason with her. She simply does not agree that as commited couples we should not be deliberately going out and testing the relationship. I could perhaps insist that these very minor boundaries be followed. But, she all but said that she would cheat on me if I did: "If you are trying to stop me, I am afraid I will become curious and desiring those things in an ill manner."
It is pretty simple: she needs to change her mind by tomorrow, without my prompting, or the relationship is over. There is no room for negotiation. She made that clear.
It's a funny thing: I know that I will never be the same after this. But despite that, I am more worried about her than myself. I honestly believe that her only path to a happy life is through me. I am sure that sounds very conceited.
She is not expecting this to lead to a break up. In fact the last thing she said to me before going to bed was that she wanted this all resolved by dinner tomorrow because she didn't want anything negative between us. I am supposed to make dinner for her tomorrow night. It is a special event. Not that I don't make dinner, but it is something I have wanted to make for her for a long time and we have both been looking forward to.
I have no idea how she is going to react tomorrow. I plan to be brief and to the point. We are at an impass. I have said what I need and she has refused. It's not a negotiable point. She has said that if I push her, she will quite likely cheat on me. This is the end. How could it be anything else?
If I said what I have went through for this relationship, you wouldn't believe it. She keeps saying I should write a book. Maybe I will, one day. But, that's going to be a while. In the mean time, I plan to bury myself in work for a couple of months.
It is.Quote:
Originally Posted by HopelesslyInLuv [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
You have a classic case of shining knight syndrome.
You think she's flawed (and she is), and being flawed yourself, you're trying to fix her, get her to see the light and the rightness of your ways.
Stop with the bullshit, they've written books about people like you. You're not God's gift to her and you needn't worry about anyone but yourself if you break up.
Couples worry about each other.
Family worry about each other.
Friends worry about each other (if you try to be friends give me address so I can slap you with a 2x4).
You are none of these once you break up.
No keeping tabs, texting, dropping e-mails, nada.
Break up with her, stand by your decision, don't back down no matter how much she may cry, or try to take back what she said, or make claims she'll change.
"We're over, good bye." is all you need.
You don't even have to explain to her your reasoning.
Wow. You are seriously incredibly patient. She should be kissing the ground you walk on to have a guy like you. I am female, and I have 80% male friends as opposed to female friends, and I've told the last guy that I was with that I would never give up my friends for a relationship...but even I think that what she's doing is totally and utterly messed up. Big time. How dare she give you an ultimatum such as that. And how dare she threaten to cheat on you if you don't let her do as she pleases. She's lived a sheltered live restricted by her parents to the big bad world, and is now feeling that she needs to have this time to meet random men for social gatherings? Oh please. I was sheltered too, but I still know what it takes to respect a man while in a relationship. I also know not to put myself out there to random men I've never met in real life with different ages, just so I can make new friends. That is just totally ridiculous. I agree with a lot of the responses on here (but don't agree with how negative some can be with their responses. This man wants advice, not to be called names or brutally put down), and I hope you do stick to your guns if you do end up breaking up with her. As much as you feel for her now, it'll be well worth it in the end. You'll come out a stronger man. I hope everything works out for the best, whether you're with her and she comes to her senses and compromises with you, or you go your separate ways. Good luck to you.
My concern for her well being has never kept me with her. I think it is a little bit much to make so many assumptions based on one statement from me. I believe I know her, know men in general, and know what she has ahead of her. Add to it that she lives somewhere where the men aren't particularly kind to women.
I gave up on trying to change her years ago. I have been accepting of certain things, this particular topic being one of them. I think it is clear that I have been too accepting. I am sure there is some term more suited to me than "shining knight syndrome". I think I preferred it when you called me a "pussy". I think that's more correct.
I agree. Over is over.
Thanks Konart. That was very nice of you. Exactly what I needed.
Being single > Being in a bad relationship
You will rediscover all the freedom and peace of mind very shortly
Any time. Please update with what happens....that's if you wish. I hope everyone will be more considerate of your feelings rather than hurtful. No one knows you or your relationship fully like you do. We only know little facts.Quote:
Originally Posted by HopelesslyInLuv [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
You're a girl so you can play mama.Quote:
Originally Posted by Konart [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
I'm a guy so I will play papa.
The runt needed a kick in the ass, not to be coddled.
If he doesn't want to be viewed as a pussy ('cause any other person could tell you she's walked all over him), then he'll do something about it. This is the equivalent of having no self respect.
I only have his best interests in mind.
A grown man needs to be able to be able to stand up for himself, otherwise he'll never be able to carry a healthy relationship.
Look, if she wasn't dating the men, or sleeping with them, then she'd be taking you along most of the time if not all of it. Doing one-on-one things without you repeatedly with new men is called dating, not "friends".
Don't be an idiot, and don't be afraid to lose this woman.
Konart.. if you've spent as much time around men as you claim.. you'd see the logic in Frasbee's words.
The last thing this guy needs is to be sheltered from harsh words. Harshness is sometimes the only way you can tell when something is severe. Why do you think euphemisms work so well? Because they mask the harsh reality in pretty words and soft context.
This woman is manipulating you... and contrary to popular stereotypes... the man does not have to stand for it. It is your right to want a fair relationship in which you both can be open with each other without fear of what games the other is trying to play on you now.
If she is threatening to cheat... then she may as well have already cheated --- she is setting you up to fail so she CAN cheat with a supposedly clear conscience... which is bullshit.
Cut through her crap and give her an ultimatum of your own. Either she treats you with the decency and respect you deserve... stops with the mind games... or you and her are through.
If you fear she will just let you go... then the relationship is already over --- all you're waiting for is validation.
Being with someone you love is suppose to build you up --- not add drama to your life. This isn't love... far from it.
You can't save her from herself.. you can't save this relationship... and you can't make her love you. What you can do is pick up the pieces and move on. You're just wasting time you could be spending with someone who is worthy of your patience and affections.
pussys are strong. they give birth, they get fuked, and they can go back to their tight selves.Quote:
Originally Posted by HopelesslyInLuv [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
i resent that the word pussy is used to describe weak men.
Quote:
Originally Posted by misombra [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
How about old wore-out ex-porn star pussies? You know, the kind that are too loose, just dangle, and nobody would go within 500 ft of?
Would that work better?
do you hate pussies aer?
Nope... far from it..Quote:
Originally Posted by misombra [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
Unless of course you're talking about weak men... ;)
we need a new word for weak men.
how about little wee wee's?
I call them "Nice Guys"Quote:
Originally Posted by misombra [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
Nah... men have another word than just pussy... "bitch."Quote:
Originally Posted by misombra [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
This word implies they don't have a dick at all, which is emasculating to men... whereas, it has become a more or less empowering word when used by women to describe themselves (for some reason).
But if you want a more direct word... I guess you could use 'stubby'... 'micro-phallus (micro-phallic tendencies.. etc)'.... 'eunuch'... 'lacking in testicular fortitude'... 'no-balls'... 'dickless'... or dare I say it 'castrated.'
"Nice guys" is a euphemism... it beats around the bush too much for my tastes...
nice guys have a place in this world and make a contribution to the goodness that is man. can you say the same about little weewee's?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lite [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
bitches get a bad name too though...Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeradalia [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
Quote:
Originally Posted by misombra [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
Well damn.. I gave you other options... :)
No, because to me, "Nice Guys" are the little self-absorbed asses who will do anything and everything to seperate you from your girl because they believe that you don't treat her well enough. You know, the guys who complain that every woman's man is an asshole.Quote:
Originally Posted by misombra [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
A he-bitch perhaps?Quote:
Originally Posted by misombra [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
well i need more! :goofy:Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeradalia [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
i would not consider that nice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lite [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
a he-bitch. i don't know. he bitches are kinda cool too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lite [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
So, it is done. We are no longer a couple.
Sad excuse for a man that I am, I tried everything imaginable to convince her that what I asked of her was not so much. When I felt I exhausted all of my options, I said I was breaking the engagement and gave her the engagement ring she gave me (it's a tradition here). She refused to accept it and refused to accept the end of our engagement.
She said that people do not break engagements for this reason. I replied "They don't break engagements when the woman thinks it is ok for her to go out with guys that she has a sexual attraction or romantic attraction to while supposedly in a committed relationship?"
Se said that was I described was so hypothetical that she couldn’t possibly promise it. She said “What if I was to feel like I need to continue dating one of these men I want sexually and/or romantically? Then I would have to break the promise that I made to you”.
She also said that she wouldn’t tell me the details of her dates because it would likely upset me. I think it is obvious that I would be upset by the fact that she goes out on dates with guys and they try to kiss her goodnight, try to get her to go home with them etc. But, I still want to know. It’s all about openness. I shouldn’t have to guess what happened or ask her a bunch of questions each and every time she dates some guy. Besides, I have never got angry with her for the behaviour of the men. The worst I said was “Just as I would have expected”.
I tried what I could to convince her that I wasn’t being unreasonable. She feels there is risk all around and you can’t avoid it, just deal with it. But, of course at the same time she won’t walk down an abandoned alley in the middle of the night. It is simply common sense to evaluate danger/risk and plan appropriately.
Ultimately, I still believe that she would not have cheated on me. That she would have simply gone out with these guys out of curiosity, and it never would have gone any further.
I think what it really comes down to is that she showed complete lack of respect for me and for our relationship. I simply asked her to be respectful of our relationship and disclose the details of her dates and promise to break off these relationships if there is evidence of a possible danger to our relationship.
I walked her back to her office. I told her as she was about to go in that I would not be texting her and that we could arrange things such as the return of her property via emails. Only then did she say “are you breaking up with me?”. At which point I said “Yes, what did you think this was about?” That’s when she returned the ring. I couldn’t have been more clear. I spoke of how I promised to do everything I could to save our relationship and not break up unless I could see no other solution. Then I told her I was breaking off the engagement, which she refused to accept. But, at some point I thought she accepted it. It was very strange.
I don't quite know how I feel. I do know that I won't crawl back to her. A part of me wishes she would come to her senses finally and everything will be OK. But, that is unrealistic. The nature of our relationship is that she does something to hurt me, and I apologize for being hurt. Yes, a poor excuse for a man. As many have said, this is why we are in this position now. Perhaps if I had stood up to her sooner and more forcefully we could have avoided all of this. But, I'm not so sure. Certainly I will not beat myself up over it.
I forgot to mention. She actually suggested that I write to a forum about all of this. I gave her a copy of what I wrote. She said that basically it was right, but there were some inaccuracies. She said there were only 5 guys in her group of male friends. Though, I have pictures showing 6. So, I'm not sure what to say about that. Also, she doesn't recall going away for weekends with them, except on one occassion. She also says that from my post it seemed like she was out trolling chat rooms etc but in reality the men came to her.
I said that I didn't think those changes would have affected what people said in response. I really did try to avoid bringing up what people said here. But, it is hard to not to present evidence indicating that I was not being unreasonably jealous.
I can't say this doesn't hurt. I feel like I have lost the true love of my life. That she cannot be replaced. I just wonder how I will survive in a situation where everything is just a little bit less. I will have my self respect and hopefully the respect of my partner, but have lost so much else. At this point it is hard for me to evaluate the importance of each, and how I move forward.
I guess I am counting on time to straighten things out in my head.
I have a lot of work that I have been neglecting of late. That is my task during this mourning period.
I told you dude. You didn't have to explain yourself to her.
When you break up with someone, it doesn't have to be mutual, and the other party doesn't need to understand your reasoning because their opinion no longer matters.
But congratulations!
After a period of grief, I'm sure you'll feel great and a hell of a lot less burdened without having to carry all that emotional weight.
If you had self-respect to begin with... you still would not have been able to save this relationship... rather, you would've recognized its toxicity to you much sooner and would've ended it.
You have lost a burden and gained a new perspective on life --- one that will hopefully allow you to see that you can be happy without having to endure the head games.
It will hurt only because you miss 'someone'... not necessarily her. In due time... you will realize that she wasn't even close to the person you were wanting and more importantly... needing.
Sorry you're sad, but I'm glad that you took a stand and ended this mess. I still think she's crazy to think that she could meet up with these random men and not tell you what happened while hanging out. I really don't get her logic in wanting to do that.
You'll be a stronger man after all this.