Always friend zoned and frustrated!

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Originally Posted by MerryH [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Yes, you're right, you cannot predict what another human being will do. What you can do is improve yourself so that people might find you enjoyable. People are telling you at least one clear, simple way to do that. You won't even consider it. And you hate women. What is the point of your complaining, then? Please answer this.

Oh and while you're at it, please tell us more about this:



Did you really shove a gun in someone's face? What happened there? Use simple English, please.

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There's nothing wrong with me aside from the fact that I hardly adhere to social norms, and even so, this isn't something major or serious to any extend. I know fully well that my inertia to social practices is not the cause of my rejection from girls. These girls whom I've went out with are mere average Jane (no, I'm not on any attempt to be condescending) and it frustrates me so badly as so my constant failure. So what are you suggesting? Improve what? There's nothing to improve on except that I think there are so much guys around who are less real and more capable of playing the dating game than me. She could have been more honest with me from the start instead of wasting my time. Every of the girls I've dated knew I had romantic interest towards them, and if they didn't felt the same way, why can't they make known in a forthright manner, instead of stringing me along with text flirt and rejecting me upon confession. This is total emotional dishonesty. I'm starting to see my relationship with the opposite gender as a zero sum calculation. Its either I be taken advantage of by them, or I vent my anger, as a result of the negative by-product collective experiences, on them. Sure, you might think I'm full of myself, bittern and et cetera, but these are negative manifestation from the many failures. Further, you might think its unreasonable but people like you, I presume are on a constant successful streak with women, and therefore, have never been placed in a position akin to the likes of us. With so many females playing the dating game, I no longer find it difficult to distinguish between what is false and what is genuine.

We went out once after she was attached, and I had to pay for her meals. There is an automatic assumption that she has to pay for her own meals since she is attached already yet she waited for me to foot the bill when the waiter came. I paid not because I am incapable of telling her to pay for her fair due, but because I did not want her to look ugly with people around us. The question still remains "why can't she pay for her own share".

I've been conscripted into the military recently as part of my national obligation. Because of this I've to put on hold my double major. Since then, I've been suffering from major depression disorder due to the authoritarian lifestyle, with my recent fiasco with said girl exacerbating the issue. I did shove a gun and so what? Everyone has temper and my sergeant happened to push my limits at the wrong time. This should be evidently sufficient to prove I am no push over. I'm not a jerk nor an ass hole, but when I'm at my boiling point, people want to stay far away from me.

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Originally Posted by evans [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

There's nothing wrong with me aside from the fact that I hardly adhere to social norms, and even so, this isn't something major or serious to any extend..

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Not adhering to social norms is something major, when you actually do seem like you want to be able to relate to people and have intimate relationships. If you didn't give a shit about befriending people or getting laid, then I'd congratulate you and leave you to it. But you're here, on an advice forum, asking for help, right? Are you going to take any of it, or just argue and convince yourself that we're wrong? What's the point of me or anyone else trying to get through to you when there seems to be nothing there?

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So what are you suggesting? Improve what? There's nothing to improve on except that I think there are so much guys around who are less real and more capable of playing the dating game than me.

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Improve your communication and empathy skills first. Also, people who say that they can't improve anything because they're so perfect are really obnoxious and deluded. Improve yourself. Everyone else does it, so can you. And it's not about other guys, they don't matter.

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I did shove a gun and so what? Everyone has temper and my sergeant happened to push my limits at the wrong time.

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Here's another thing you can improve about yourself. Your temper. I'm pretty sure people don't like having guns shoved in their face, so you should work on that, too.

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People like you, I presume are on a constant successful streak with women, and therefore, have never been placed in a position akin to the likes of us.

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You presumed wrong. I am actually a straight female, so I've never attempted any sort of streak with women. Although if I did, I'm certain that I would be more successful at it than you are.

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Originally Posted by MerryH [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Not adhering to social norms is something major, when you actually do seem like you want to be able to relate to people and have intimate relationships. If you didn't give a shit about befriending people or getting laid, then I'd congratulate you and leave you to it. But you're here, on an advice forum, asking for help, right? Are you going to take any of it, or just argue and convince yourself that we're wrong? What's the point of me or anyone else trying to get through to you when there seems to be nothing there?



Improve your communication and empathy skills first. Also, people who say that they can't improve anything because they're so perfect are really obnoxious and deluded. Improve yourself. Everyone else does it, so can you. And it's not about other guys, they don't matter.



Here's another thing you can improve about yourself. Your temper. I'm pretty sure people don't like having guns shoved in their face, so you should work on that, too.



You presumed wrong. I am actually a straight female, so I've never attempted any sort of streak with women. Although if I did, I'm certain that I would be more successful at it than you are.

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Social norms like what? What I meant was that while I am repudiate by social pleasantries and traditional practices, I do not engage in any form of practices which are socially retarded. I befriend people on a selective basis; they are people who have depth and not your tom, dick and harry on the street.

What I think you're doing now is conflating my current mental and emotional state with my usual state of affair, where it leads to the egregious assumption of supposing I am unable to enter into an exclusive relationship with my date because I am acting in my current state. Aforementioned, I'm a really good guy but in this thread, I'm venting a lot of justified anger over the course of my failures.

Many people can't stand idiots too. I know I 'm allergic to them. One thing's for sure, I've a high threshold when it comes to maintaining my composure. That doesn't mean I'm immune to anger.

I'll provide you with a third triangulation to see how far you are able to assist me.

1. I hardly talk during dates
2. I don't usually call the girl in question to communicate; preferring texts to verbal communication
3. I take things really slow, and tend to refrain from physical affection (I don't like physical affection)
4. I listen to her issues over text. You might suggest me to make myself scarce but I see no reason why I should deliberately do so. It seems artificial, pretentious and dishonest.
5. I pay for dates.
I care more than I can express.


I fail to see what is wrong.

So...you think you re superior to the girls you try to date. You rarely speak to them in person or by phone. When you text or e-mail, you use lots of big words incorrectly (like repudiate, look it up). You put absolutely no value on emotional or physical connection, valuing logic exclusively. And you dismiss all social niceties as beneath your concern.

Why in the world would ANY woman want to date you? What is in it for her? I have not met a woman, ever, who was looking for a guy to talk down to her, act pompous, make himself look foolish, and refuse to speak to her or touch her. That's going to continue to be an issue for you.

I mean, I am not basing this off of stereotypes of the sexes, even. No HUMAN BEING would want to date someone who won't talk to them or touch them. You really do need to seek evaluation for your autistic tendencies. But you also need to choose-either make your peace with being alone or learn how to interact with other humans and value the societal norms by which those interactions succeed. It is not because they are logical that social norms survive, it is because they facilitate connections with other humans by providing context and meaning to our interactions.

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Originally Posted by Take2 [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

So...you think you re superior to the girls you try to date. You rarely speak to them in person or by phone. When you text or e-mail, you use lots of big words incorrectly (like repudiate, look it up). You put absolutely no value on emotional or physical connection, valuing logic exclusively. And you dismiss all social niceties as beneath your concern.

Why in the world would ANY woman want to date you? What is in it for her? I have not met a woman, ever, who was looking for a guy to talk down to her, act pompous, make himself look foolish, and refuse to speak to her or touch her. That's going to continue to be an issue for you.

I mean, I am not basing this off of stereotypes of the sexes, even. No HUMAN BEING would want to date someone who won't talk to them or touch them. You really do need to seek evaluation for your autistic tendencies. But you also need to choose-either make your peace with being alone or learn how to interact with other humans and value the societal norms by which those interactions succeed. It is not because they are logical that social norms survive, it is because they facilitate connections with other humans by providing context and meaning to our interactions.

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The word is used just fine. The reason as to why you think I have mistakenly applied its usage is because, I suspect, you're looking at it from a concrete perspective, as to me from a more abstract world view. It is in the same manner how concrete thinker would refer to a composition of people at x point in time and space as "society", whereas, abstract thinkers would defined a composition of people at x point in time and space as a "system".

In any case, from where did you draw the inference that I talk down to her? I have never talked down to any women whom I have date. I tend to dumb myself down when communicating with them. I make effort to communicate. Yes, I do not talk over the phone because its a waste of time and I dislike excessive small talks. I don't see why communication via text is an issue.

Plausibly, issues that which I might reasonably acknowledge is my lack of verbal and physical interaction with my dates. You might argue that physical affection are important, and while that is indisputable, physical affection is not something I can comfortable with engaging when the opposite sex. I intuit that I am only comfortable with the initiation of such acts few months after entering into an exclusive relationship. No one said anything about not wanting to get physically comfortable with them. You're propositioning an assumption which has neither any relevance nor bearing as to my aforementioned information. The onus of proof is on you to prove your epistemic obligation, not me.

I am also puzzle in learning about the transition in behavioral and cognitive patterns in a female who has transited from a state of "single hood" to a state of "being in a relationship". Commonly, there is the imperative that single girls who are being pursued are turn-off by guys who provides to them an outlet for emotional tantrum. Yet however, the equation changes the moment they enter into an exclusive relationship with a guy. Is this purely biological or is it a matter of a manipulative play of dating game? I hardly smile, and tend to fold my arms. How important are body languages? I tend to get girls when I'm half-drunk; that is when my body language are highly sensual and that is also when I get really physical with girls. I'm really trying to get down to the root cause.

You know what? I think you are a troll. No one can be so socially inept, I mean, I am socially inept, but that's just being completely retarded.

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Originally Posted by the_robot [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

You know what? I think you are a troll. No one can be so socially inept, I mean, I am socially inept, but that's just being completely retarded.

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Ad hominen argument once again.

I'm not socially inept. What you're attempting to argue has been covered in the earlier pages.

No, the reason I think you misused the word has nothing to do with my ability to understand simile and metaphor. I have a degree in English literature and write for a living, thanks. The reason I think you misused the word is because you either have it backwards or just don't understand the word at all. You may repudiate social norms, but you claim they repudiate you...and societal norms as a construct do not judge anyone at all. Also, thinking of people as a system is not an abstract concept, it is an extremely concrete concept, and a well-accepted one.

Since you have repeatedly commented on your superiority to the women you want to date, I say that you LOOK down on her, even if you don't speak down to her. And people don't like that, it feels bad and it makes them defensive. It also makes you look bad, especially when you seem to have a lot of mannerisms that make you appear to be trying to look smarter than you are. Just an unappealing combination altogether.

There is no onus on me for anything, I have a boyfriend and have never had trouble getting one. You want to know why you have trouble, I suggest that your attitude of superiority and avoidance of physical contact, conversation, and social niceties pretty much keep you from ever GETTING two months into an exclusive relationship. My proof is only anecdotal, not a study, so take it for what it's worth. But those 3 things are pretty much essential to the early stages of dating, and then to the sustenance of a relationship.

And I think you misunderstand women entirely in your last paragraph. A mature woman doesn't need an outlet for "tantrums." My preschool daughter looks immature when she has a tantrum, it certainly isn't apropriate behavior for an adult male or female. Women (and men) appreciate emotional support, in early stages and later stages of a relationship. The depth of that support will change over time, naturally.

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Originally Posted by Take2 [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

No, the reason I think you misused the word has nothing to do with my ability to understand simile and metaphor. I have a degree in English literature and write for a living, thanks. The reason I think you misused the word is because you either have it backwards or just don't understand the word at all. You may repudiate social norms, but you claim they repudiate you...and societal norms as a construct do not judge anyone at all. Also, thinking of people as a system is not an abstract concept, it is an extremely concrete concept, and a well-accepted one.

Since you have repeatedly commented on your superiority to the women you want to date, I say that you LOOK down on her, even if you don't speak down to her. And people don't like that, it feels bad and it makes them defensive. It also makes you look bad, especially when you seem to have a lot of mannerisms that make you appear to be trying to look smarter than you are. Just an unappealing combination altogether.

There is no onus on me for anything, I have a boyfriend and have never had trouble getting one. You want to know why you have trouble, I suggest that your attitude of superiority and avoidance of physical contact, conversation, and social niceties pretty much keep you from ever GETTING two months into an exclusive relationship. My proof is only anecdotal, not a study, so take it for what it's worth. But those 3 things are pretty much essential to the early stages of dating, and then to the sustenance of a relationship.

And I think you misunderstand women entirely in your last paragraph. A mature woman doesn't need an outlet for "tantrums." My preschool daughter looks immature when she has a tantrum, it certainly isn't apropriate behavior for an adult male or female. Women (and men) appreciate emotional support, in early stages and later stages of a relationship. The depth of that support will change over time, naturally.

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And I'm an undergraduate in philosophy and theoretical astrophysics.

Social normalities, while are non-living, are considered metaphysical entities. They possesses predicates and qualities and this attributes and sufficient in itself to effect chains of causality. Thinking of people as a system is an abstract concepts just as in the same way, people can be viewed as a composition of data units and atomic constructs; no fundamentally different from external objects(e.g., chairs, tables, apple), rather than what concrete thinkers would argue them to be a being of flesh and blood. That said, I've no intention of entering into a semantics argument with you.
I have mentioned that my attitude of superiority is a subconscious one. It is not displayed under normal circumstances, only in circumstances whereby I feel indignant where and when I'm venting my frustrations on issues I've been shortchanged. You've been constructing assumptions and assertions of me looking down on her and have not fulfill your epistemic obligation.
I'm an egalitarian. I do not look down on her during the time I was going out with her. I'm showing a superior attitude now because I'm venting my frustration.

You're missing the point in a verbose manner. What I'm saying is that females tend to be put-off by guys who are available for them, but the moment they enter into an exclusive relationship, they demand their partner to be sensitive, assuring and emotionally accommodating to them. Something has to be at play here. Is it some kind of biological imperative or some immature dating games?

All I'm trying to say is that given my qualities, I cannot arrive at any conclusion as to my constant rejections.
So how about you just educate me on the importance of physical touches during a date, id est when and how often should I do that.

I am saying it is not my experience among female friends or my personal preference as a woman to be put off by guys who are available for us. I do want a sensitiv, assuring and emotionally supportive mate. So I look for those qualities in men I meet before I start dating them. I offer those qualities in return, I do not proceed in potential relationships where they are lacking. Based on my experience, I would have to guess it is an immature dating game, and that if you find more mature dating prospects you will not see that as much.

Dating is about intimacy. Not just physical, I mean emotional, intellectual and physical intimacy. Intimacy should escalate from the moment a romantic interest is mutual until it peaks, and the pace of that escalation will be mutually determined. If it isn't increasing at all, the relationship fizzles. The woman is likely to be watching your pace to determine your interest, all while she sends you cues as to her pace. If you don't match, she loses interest. Eye contact, shared jokes, a touch of the hand, a smile, a story about an embarassing moment-all of those things increase intimacy, build a bond, and also show that the bond is building. If you don't talk and you don't touch, then at the end of your date, you are still no better than strangers sharing a bus stop. You can't expect a woman to leap into your arms after 2 months of sitting next to you in restaurants and movie theaters, even if you pay for all those things. You need to be sharing your feelings and thoughts and touches more every time you are together. I can't tell you the number and timing of those touches and exchanges, because they are determined by the budding relationship itself. I can't even tell you the optimal number and timing of those touches and exchanges for ME, because it is different with every guy as the relationship has its own pac that is only pertially determined by me.

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Originally Posted by Take2 [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I am saying it is not my experience among female friends or my personal preference as a woman to be put off by guys who are available for us. I do want a sensitiv, assuring and emotionally supportive mate. So I look for those qualities in men I meet before I start dating them. I offer those qualities in return, I do not proceed in potential relationships where they are lacking. Based on my experience, I would have to guess it is an immature dating game, and that if you find more mature dating prospects you will not see that as much.

Dating is about intimacy. Not just physical, I mean emotional, intellectual and physical intimacy. Intimacy should escalate from the moment a romantic interest is mutual until it peaks, and the pace of that escalation will be mutually determined. If it isn't increasing at all, the relationship fizzles. The woman is likely to be watching your pace to determine your interest, all while she sends you cues as to her pace. If you don't match, she loses interest. Eye contact, shared jokes, a touch of the hand, a smile, a story about an embarassing moment-all of those things increase intimacy, build a bond, and also show that the bond is building. If you don't talk and you don't touch, then at the end of your date, you are still no better than strangers sharing a bus stop. You can't expect a woman to leap into your arms after 2 months of sitting next to you in restaurants and movie theaters, even if you pay for all those things. You need to be sharing your feelings and thoughts and touches more every time you are together. I can't tell you the number and timing of those touches and exchanges, because they are determined by the budding relationship itself. I can't even tell you the optimal number and timing of those touches and exchanges for ME, because it is different with every guy as the relationship has its own pac that is only pertially determined by me.

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Its hard to find anyone whom I can connect with on an intellectual level at where I reside. Connecting with a potential date on an emotional and physical level isn't an issue, but it requires, on my part, a longer duration, as compared to most other guys. I often find myself caring more than what I can express and this very deficiency in ability to express my emotion impedes the advancing of the relationship. I also find it hard to observe and understand her body languages. People have repeatedly stressed the importance of body language as being a more valuable and accurate prediction of intentions but I find it otherwise. It is ambiguous, unlike verbal communication which is direct. I'm a total handicapped.

Honesty is your best policy. Tell her that you are having a hard time putting how you feel into words rather than remaining silent. And if you want to kiss her and can't tell if her body language is good or bad for that, tell her "I really want to kiss you, but I am remarkably bad at reading body language and I don't want to get smacked." It could be an endearing quality to her, but only if you let her in. If you just sit in silence, she will likely interpret that as dinsinterest in her or an empty brain!

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Originally Posted by Take2 [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Honesty is your best policy. Tell her that you are having a hard time putting how you feel into words rather than remaining silent. And if you want to kiss her and can't tell if her body language is good or bad for that, tell her "I really want to kiss you, but I am remarkably bad at reading body language and I don't want to get smacked." It could be an endearing quality to her, but only if you let her in. If you just sit in silence, she will likely interpret that as dinsinterest in her or an empty brain!

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Well, thanks. She has a bf now and I'm not going to do anything. I would even settle for her even if she changed her mind now. I wouldn't be seen as someone who settles for some 'leftovers'.

I have no confidence in dating anyone else for a long time, and given my bitterness and pride, I think I'll settle for social escorts as an alternative.

Social escorts, as in prostitutes?

I mean, you could try to put a little effort into changing your terrible attitude or being pleasant to be around, but yeah, **** that, paying someone to pretend to like you is much easier. Good luck with that, I guess.

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Originally Posted by MerryH [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Social escorts, as in prostitutes?

I mean, you could try to put a little effort into changing your terrible attitude or being pleasant to be around, but yeah, **** that, paying someone to pretend to like you is much easier. Good luck with that, I guess.

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I don't pay them to like me, I pay them to talk to them, and as well for companionship minus the sex.
Its high time you stop accusing me of terrible attitude. You shouldn't be expecting anyone to play nice when they're obviously in a foul mood. I certainly don't act in a manner like this on a date, nor under normal circumstances. I'm acting this way because I'm obviously frustrated so that shouldn't be too surprising.

So...because you're frustrated, you think we should just enjoy reading your really misguided rants and pat you on the back and tell you you're wonderful?

Regardless of the reason you're displaying a bad attitude, it's still there. And I'm not basing that just on your behavior here, it's certain opinions you have, like how you think you're really much better and smarter than most people and you shouldn't have to change because you're perfect and always right. That, and you're a misogynist.

So tell me more about this prostitute thing. How many times have you hired a woman? Do you call an escort service or just pick them up on a street corner? And you just talk to them? No sex involved? I think you're doing it wrong. That's cool, though. Whatever makes you happy.

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Originally Posted by MerryH [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

So...because you're frustrated, you think we should just enjoy reading your really misguided rants and pat you on the back and tell you you're wonderful?

Regardless of the reason you're displaying a bad attitude, it's still there. And I'm not basing that just on your behavior here, it's certain opinions you have, like how you think you're really much better and smarter than most people and you shouldn't have to change because you're perfect and always right. That, and you're a misogynist.

So tell me more about this prostitute thing. How many times have you hired a woman? Do you call an escort service or just pick them up on a street corner? And you just talk to them? No sex involved? I think you're doing it wrong. That's cool, though. Whatever makes you happy.

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Sure I am displaying a bad attitude. Everyone has temper. I'm sick of being taken advantage of by the opposite genders and I believe I echo the sentiments of other males caught in a similar position as I am. As usual, you've been asserting proposition while not fulfilling your epistemic obligation. I'm angry because being nice entails being taken advantage of.
Yea, no sex involved. I'm not a highly sexual person. I did it through an agency, for the fun of it as like my friends. Few times, for dinner and parties. What's so taboo about it. I don't go round picking some girls off the street. I wouldn't have anything to do with an escort but overtime, it seems to me that escort do not play games unlike your typical Jane.

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Originally Posted by evans [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Yea, no sex involved. I'm not a highly sexual person. I did it through an agency, for the fun of it as like my friends. Few times, for dinner and parties. What's so taboo about it. I don't go round picking some girls off the street. I wouldn't have anything to do with an escort but overtime, it seems to me that escort do not play games unlike your typical Jane.

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That may actually be your perfect solution, and I mean that sincerely. If you want someone to accept you for who you are without requiring any social niceties and you don't really like most of the aspects of a romantic relationship, paying a beautiful woman to kep you company fits the bill. She will be delighted by what you say, content with whatever you are willing to give, and willing to give you whatever you want in return. Just do not be fooled or fool yourself, of COURSE she is playing a game. A game of charades, she is literally being the woman you pay her to be. This may work very well for you, but do not think that you will ever find a real woman who can or will live up to the expectations you build from these perfect "dates." What you like about them is that you don't have to give anything of yourself, having compensated for that lack with your wallet. A real date won't accept cash in lieu of reciprocal interpersonal connection.

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Originally Posted by Take2 [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

. A game of charades, she is literally being the woman you pay her to be. This may work very well for you, but do not think that you will ever find a real woman who can or will live up to the expectations you build from these perfect "dates."

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And that is par for the course. Clearly, there must be a demarcation drawn between the construal of physicalism and an ideal.

The first page is all "don't be a friend and don't give a shit about their problems"

that's like saying "make yourself the opposite of their ideal partner and they'll want you"

is that just because of the "mothering hen" complex? They only want guys they think need fixing?

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Originally Posted by shadowMike4d4 [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

The first page is all "don't be a friend and don't give a shit about their problems"

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I didn't see much of that on the first page...

I think you misunderstood that "don't be a friend" thing. You shouldn't try to just be friends with a girl who you have a romantic interest in. You should be pretty straightforward about your intentions with her. It's kind of a sneaky and conniving way to get into a girl's pants (or just date, whatever) because since you've never made your goal clear, she assumes you don't want to date her. So she takes your company at face value - platonic friendship. Inevitably, you, as her "friend," will awkwardly blurt out after weeks or months how much you're in love with her (of course you won't just be cool and ask her out on a date because you never had the balls to do that in the first place), putting her in a difficult position even if she might have some sort of feelings for you. It's an easily avoidable situation.

You, in general. Not YOU, you.

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Originally Posted by MerryH [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I didn't see much of that on the first page...

I think you misunderstood that "don't be a friend" thing. You shouldn't try to just be friends with a girl who you have a romantic interest in. You should be pretty straightforward about your intentions with her. It's kind of a sneaky and conniving way to get into a girl's pants (or just date, whatever) because since you've never made your goal clear, she assumes you don't want to date her. So she takes your company at face value - platonic friendship. Inevitably, you, as her "friend," will awkwardly blurt out after weeks or months how much you're in love with her (of course you won't just be cool and ask her out on a date because you never had the balls to do that in the first place), putting her in a difficult position even if she might have some sort of feelings for you. It's an easily avoidable situation.

You, in general. Not YOU, you.

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Well this is confusing.

We've heard two sides of the coin, and on the one side of the theory, making one's intention known to the girl is a bad move. As best to my knowledge, wouldn't anyone freak out a the thought of you wanting a relationship with them when there is no conversant between the two parties? The thing with human interrelationship is that they do not work on a binary principle. The dynamics, nature and variety of interactions between humans are more likely to evolve than remain stagnant over time. What's the deal?

There are no two sides of the coin. If a guy is attracted to a woman he doesn't know, his best chance is to find a way to approach her and be honest (although not scary and over-direct, of course) and let her know he would like a romantic relationship. If he is attracted at first and hides it and becomes friends, he risks her finding some other guy and becoming happy with that guy. If a guy is already friends and decides he likes a girl, honesty is still the best bet for getting a romantic relationship with her. And if the woman isn't attracted to the guy, there is little chance of a relationship forming. This is anot as complicated as people try to make it.