Connecticut Shooting Leaves 28 Dead, Including 20 Pupils

I don't care what that link says, different regions have different word/phrase meanings. This is how language evolves. I'm telling you, say that to someone in my area and you'd get either the same response or a punch to the mouth if you were unlucky enough to be talking to someone with a nasty temper. It's comparable to saying, "Talking to you is like talking to a box of rocks". You can keep arguing and threatening me all day long but being a mod doesn't mean I have to talk like you and think like you so this will be my last response on the issue.

Everyone who says they don't think people should carry guns can't say why. They just don't think it sounds "good" and crack sarcastic jokes. Every response thus far has been an exaggeration or a comparison that makes no sense. And yet in a few minutes' time, I just gave real examples of instances where guns saved lives, no jokes, no exaggerations. Should those people have died? Is this what you are seriously suggesting? Because if they hadn't had them, chances are, they wouldn't be around now. An innocent little baby, really? We're all crying over these little kids dying but we don't think the mother who protected herself and her baby should have had a gun? What alternative, in that situation, is there? You call the cops, they get there when they can. That's the problem - they get there when they can. For some of us, that's not a trip down the street, that's quite a ride. When a neighbor of mine called the cops a few years back, it took close to half an hour to get here. Half a damn hour. But walk in on almost anyone's house along this road and they probably have an entire gun rack. We've had one since I was a kid and it's still in our hallway. I don't personally like guns but I can't ignore the fact that responsible gun carriers have a point.

So are you suggesting that if we had banned guns, this psycho wouldn't have had access to them? That no one would outside the police force?


ALSO, what is so special about cops? Are we also suggesting no cop has ever been convicted of murder? lmfao

The amount of guns used to assault rather than defend is a hugely disparate ratio so you're deliberately omitting the full picture. It's probably like a 500-1 ratio.

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Originally Posted by Love'sReject [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

The amount of guns used to assault rather than defend is a hugely disparate ratio so you're deliberately omitting the full picture. It's probably like a 500-1 ratio.

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And you are deliberating ignoring the main point I'm trying to make - do you really think banning guns will keep stuff like this from happening, knowing damn well that the wrong people will still be armed? All you would effectively be doing is pushing normally law abiding citizens who would have had a registered weapon/permit to look elsewhere, too. Those who wouldn't, probably like that young mother, would just be unarmed and that guy likely would have shot up the school anyways.

I'm asking you directly - could you justify taking away gun rights, basically just because you think it might help but aren't actually sure, knowing that woman and her baby would have come to great harm or even death? Knowing criminals will still get guns, that cop response times are still not always fast enough, would that be good enough?

Why SHOULD they have guns to begin with? They serve NO purpose except to hunt animals which I LOATHE (hunting should be illegal), penile extension or for crime. We're not going to be invaded by the British are even by Commies a la Red Dawn: there is certifiably no national interest in keeping citizens armed.


Yes, I would STILL justify taking gun rights away (I don't even think calling them "rights" is correct; it's a PRIVILEGE to live in a nation that allows morons to have guns).

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Originally Posted by Love'sReject [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Why SHOULD they have guns to begin with?

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We've covered this.

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They serve NO purpose except to hunt animals which I LOATHE (hunting should be illegal),

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So you're a vegetarian?

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Yes, I would STILL justify taking gun rights away (I don't even think calling them "rights" is correct; it's a PRIVILEGE to live in a nation that allows morons to have guns).

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Then don't carry a gun, it's that simple. You still haven't given any reason for why you shouldn't be allowed to have one if you are responsible but I've given you reasons why you should. Your argument amounts to, "I just don't like it okay?"

I'm going to take a break and wrap some Christmas presents, let me know if you think of a valid reason without resorting to exaggerations.

No, I'm not a vegetarian: I just don't think frivolous killing for sport is cool at all. Animals don't even kill other animals to wear or as trophies, it's extremely savage and resource draining PLUS an affront to starving nations.

Most gun purchasers WON'T be reasonable; why enable the murders of thousands to save 20 lives? My argument is not about like (I'm currently pro-gun but heavily questioning it).

Wow, this sure spun away from the event and more into the debate about gun control.

That happens with any incident pertaining to gun control.

anyone know why this 20yr dude went crazy ?

Hotaru: in Europe, episodes like this just don't happen. It's more difficult even for criminals to get access to guns: I've personally never even seen a real gun in real life. I think pretty much every European looks down on the USA when it comes to guns and thinks "They are so stupid". You guys don't need guns. We don't have them and we're doing just fine.

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Originally Posted by searock [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Hotaru: in Europe, episodes like this just don't happen. It's more difficult even for criminals to get access to guns: I've personally never even seen a real gun in real life. I think pretty much every European looks down on the USA when it comes to guns and thinks "They are so stupid". You guys don't need guns. We don't have them and we're doing just fine.

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That's what I was talking about. I don't see a reason why in USA people would need guns more than we Europeans do. We have different kinds of people here as well. We have some monsters too. But I feel definitely more safe knowing that I have no gun at home, neither do my neighbours. I feel safe without guns. I wouldn't feel like that with a gun at home.

In the uk, where there are stricter laws, this kind of thing doesn't happen. Yes there are people/gangs carrying guns illegally but there are very few cases of people being shot (that aren't involved in gang culture themselves).

It says something that even the majority of our police force do not want to be armed with the main reason being that they believe arming themselves will encourage more criminals to starting carrying weapons.

I feel for these children and their parents, and the people that had to deal with the aftermath and seeing that sight. It must be devastating.

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Originally Posted by searock [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Hotaru: in Europe, episodes like this just don't happen. It's more difficult even for criminals to get access to guns: I've personally never even seen a real gun in real life. I think pretty much every European looks down on the USA when it comes to guns and thinks "They are so stupid". You guys don't need guns. We don't have them and we're doing just fine.

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I dislike the European superiority complex. After all, they glorify David Hassellhoff. :P

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Originally Posted by vashti [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I dislike the European superiority complex. After all, they glorify David Hassellhoff. :P

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Lol no we don't :)

[Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Some nice graph for you guys.

Hmm, someone needs to tell the person that created that picture that Germany reunified 22 years ago.

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Originally Posted by qwertz [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Hmm, someone needs to tell the person that created that picture that Germany reunified 12 years ago.

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I'm not sure 100%, but I think it's from some american campaign against guns... :D

I didn't even know who David Hassellhoff is, until I googled him... :D

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Originally Posted by searock [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I didn't even know who David Hassellhoff is, until I googled him... :D

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Hahaha lol seriously you don't know who Hassellhoff is? And Baywatch? :D It was one of my favourite tv-series back then :D

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Originally Posted by Petit Papillon [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Hahaha lol seriously you don't know who Hassellhoff is? And Baywatch? :D It was one of my favourite tv-series back then :D

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Hehe yeah I recognized him when his picture popped up on google, I just didn't know that was his name... I wasn't really into Baywatch as a kid :D

The uk is a prime example of government control gone to far. You need a licence to watch tv, it is one of the most (if not the most) cctv'd country in the world. You can not carry ANYTHING in prepared self defence, you have to be ridiculously careful of what you say should you defend yourself if someone breaks into your home.

Americans remember, as soon as you give away any right, chances are you will never get it back.
Banning hand guns in the uk has done nothing to change the death rate from hand guns, it simply meant the thousands of responsible, law abiding citizens had to hand them over whilst the criminals kept hold of theirs and continue to kill with them.

What's needed is an intelligent, well thought out method for allowing people to buy, own and carry guns. NOT a knee jerk highly emotive reaction to a terrible tragedy.

Hotaru - I live in a country where these kinds of events are far less common and our gun laws more strict. But this argument doesn't help those children.

I know that area and those communities have some influence. I hope some stronger gun laws emerge from this tragedy.

I feel for those families so close to Christmas. I'd be devastated if that was my child. Hugs your kids, everyone.

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Originally Posted by steviej [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

The uk is a prime example of government control gone to far. You need a licence to watch tv, it is one of the most (if not the most) cctv'd country in the world. You can not carry ANYTHING in prepared self defence, you have to be ridiculously careful of what you say should you defend yourself if someone breaks into your home.

Americans remember, as soon as you give away any right, chances are you will never get it back.
Banning hand guns in the uk has done nothing to change the death rate from hand guns, it simply meant the thousands of responsible, law abiding citizens had to hand them over whilst the criminals kept hold of theirs and continue to kill with them.

What's needed is an intelligent, well thought out method for allowing people to buy, own and carry guns. NOT a knee jerk highly emotive reaction to a terrible tragedy.

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As the wife of a serving police officer I am VERY pleased that it is illegal here to carry anything in 'self defence' otherwise, every time that he stopped or arrested someone he would have a much higher chance of being hurt with a weapon.

Some of our laws are crazy, but most of them I agree with, in a country where most firearms are illegal, in 99.9% of situations you should not need a weapon or need at all, to use lethal force to defend yourself and certainly not your home.

its so sad. and why would u do that to kids........ dammmmmm..

America need to realize that his way of dealing with guns is wrong. start with that!
cause its legal people have less time to think that they should get help instead of doing such a horrible thing.
cause the guns are just right next to them at home.

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Originally Posted by qwertz [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

As the wife of a serving police officer I am VERY pleased that it is illegal here to carry anything in 'self defence' otherwise, every time that he stopped or arrested someone he would have a much higher chance of being hurt with a weapon.

Some of our laws are crazy, but most of them I agree with, in a country where most firearms are illegal, in 99.9% of situations you should not need a weapon or need at all, to use lethal force to defend yourself and certainly not your home.

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What makes you think that? Scum already carry weapons, it's the law abiding who are unable to!
What people don't seem to grasp is that controls, laws, restrictions only work on people who are willing to follow them.

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Originally Posted by steviej [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

What makes you think that? Scum already carry weapons, it's the law abiding who are unable to!

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Your point (which I think is that everyone should carry firearms) would make sense in a society without law enforcement.

But the advantage to the gun laws in Canada and UK is that it makes the Scum easy to identify by law enforcement, doesn't it?

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Originally Posted by vashti [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I dislike the European superiority complex. After all, they glorify David Hassellhoff. :P

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You mean the greatest method actor of all time? :P

Every Child Slain in Newtown School Massacre Shot More Than Once
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-14/connecticut-shooting-leaves-27-dead-including-pupils-ap.html


This is SICK!!!!!

I've never heard of a mass shooting involving a young kid massacring children students: I've usually only seen bullied kids go on rampages to enact retribution on pupils who abused him. Very peculiar..

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Originally Posted by steviej [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

What makes you think that? Scum already carry weapons, it's the law abiding who are unable to!
What people don't seem to grasp is that controls, laws, restrictions only work on people who are willing to follow them.

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How do you explain the significantly lower numbers of deaths from firearms in countries which have strict gun restrictions?

They just use other methods to kill/maim. Look at the UK knife stats.

Police are a reactive force for the most part, they aren't there for personal protection - as an adult we should have our own responsibility to protect ourselves.

The problem is scum of society which exist for a number of reasons and are not being dealt with properly, guns are just tools misused by these criminals. Why punish everyones freedom for the crime of one?

Guns are almost never used for protection; the cases where they are in terms of ratio to cases where they're used to assault is infinitesimal.

And who is carrying out the assaults? Criminals. The same criminals that will still keep their weapons and still keep using them even if you ban guns.

Assault with a gun is illegal isn't it, yet why didn't it stop the assault happening? Shock horror!! Only law abiding people abide by the law.

Not everyone who commits murder has guns illegally; most of it is legally purchased.

Nobody anywhere needs a ****ing rifle but an army; ****ing stupid that anyone can buy enough to mow down a school. Insanely stupid.

Sadly your ignorance on firearms is high.

Target shooting, hunting, plinking, pest control etc, all good reasons to own a rifle. Why shouldn't you own a rifle would be a better question!

Mental instability/illness, criminal connections, criminal record etc are good reasons not to be granted a permit/licence.

What would have stopped that guy going in there with a machete? His kill count could have been just as high, 6yr olds are hardly going to put up much of a fight!
Lessons can be learnt, but ignorant knee jerk reactions are not needed.

Most murders are committed with legally held weapons? Really? You have official statistics for that or is this just wild opinion.

Hunting should be illegal; it's a barbaric stupid non-sport that wastes resources.

Even if one HAS to shoot a gun; there are places where one can shoot targets and hunt and whatnot. That doesn't necessitate gun ownership.

Any of the grown adults he killed would probably have stopped him! The kids could probably have ran and some would have been saved. ****, he might not have attempted it in the first place without the cowardice that comes with owning a gun.

Oh, so you're a strict vegan or just an ignorant hypocrite?

Hunting has been a way of life for centuries, it helps population control for certain pest species, provides sustainable food source (stuff like boar, deer etc are eaten and taste great. Even rabbit and pigeon are tasty!)

Am guessing to have such a naive view you're from a very urban environment, used to seeing your meat come from a packet. If you knew the horrible standards animals are bred and slaughtered in you'd appreciate hunting is the best 'free range' food source. The animal lives its entire life free to do as it pleases until it's killed often without even knowing about it. Compare that to the life your supermarket beef/chicken/pork...

If you're all angsty about big game hunting in africa you might be very surprised to learn how much better that is for animal conservation and the local economy is than tourist safaris. To save me writing an essay i'll leave you to do some actual research rather than you throw around tired old uneducated emotional claptrap.

As for your other comment, yes you need to own a gun to use it properly. You tweak and set up your rifle/shotgun to how you shoot. Again this is basic stuff to know!

I don't know the full facts surrounding this guy, were the guns his? There is no point getting into a massive speculation argument over what he could/couldn't do with other weapons, fact is he did shoot them and what needs to change (or what wasn't done that should have been done) to stop it happening again.

I am adamantly opposed to some of the practices in meat packing sure.

**** with tradition: we used to enslave "inferior" people and believe women deserved to be raped, ya wanna stick to tradition? Hunting is STUPID: how much of hunting is used today for sustenance? Virtually nowhere but in backward rural areas. It's not a method of mass production and is consequently pretty ****ing irrelevant.

What does your argument have to do with rights? I was just saying, if somebody needed a metaphorical penis extension and shoot a gun, they could just pay and shoot at targets. You have yet again not addressed my issue: WHY does anyone need a gun? And be realistic: not, SAVE THE COUNTRY FROM COMMIES like in Red Dawn.

You see you can't look at the subject objectively, you're all emotive and adament that because of several high profile incidents guns should be banned and the world is a better place. Sadly it doesn't work like that for reasons i've already outlined.

I never mentioned tradition, i said hunting has been done for centuries as a means for food and clothing. You seem to think it's fine to wear leather shoes that come from some cow that lived its life being fed growth hormones on an cattle production line having a short, miserable life yet the guy who goes out, shoots a (insert animal here), eats it and makes a hat from the fur is somehow inhumane and backward?!

Hunting isn't a method of mass production...and? So what! Those that do it get highest quality fresh meat for their efforts from an animal that lived a normal life. To me that seems far better than the mass produced food chain we have going on.

Comparing it to slavery, funnily enough your intensively farmed animals for the food chain have much more in common with slavery!

If someone wants to just 'shoot a gun' they can just go to a range and hire a gun and fire it. However if you get into it as a hobby you need your own so you can set it up just right for you. I think your total ignorance about guns shows with your comments.

If you read my posts i listed just a few of many reasons why someone might choose to own a gun, their need is individual.

Actually, I'm currently PRO-gun, quit making assumptions. And my changing/questioning stance is almost not at all some misplaced outrage at a few rare school shootings; in fact, my questioning comes more from man kills wife and children then commits suicide and smaller scale low profile incidents like that.