so sick of punks who doesn't know how to please a women

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Originally Posted by Indignant [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

first of all there's no need to get sarcastic or agressive about my comment. as we mature, we are able to manipulate men or women as well, with well prepared arguements into changing or perfecting their behaviour to our standards. i would love to hear opinions of people over 30 on that subject. everyone will agree that our society, culture, environment and peers affect our behaviour, right? and here you have a partner who is the closest creature to you available to be guided according to your requirements.

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No. Trying to manipulate someone is wrong. How about we put you in a cage and poke you with a stick until you realize that?

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Originally Posted by IndiReloaded [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Yep. I mean lie.

I appreciate 1AJs rescue, but I make no distinction b/t lying by omission and an outright lie. The only difference is who you are lying to.

I just think its classier to avoid the question by 'keeping one's mouth shut'. I think that disclosing the amount of prior partners too early in a relationship is asking for trouble.

If any guy I was dating was so crude as to ask me that number before we had been seeing each other exclusively for at least a few months I would deliberately inflate that number to the point I would scare him off. His losing me in the process, would be his punishment for his stupidity.

But I have a very high opinion of myself. ;)

Seriously, by the same token, I think the converse is true for females asking guys. Its none of their business. If you are uncertain about sleeping with someone, say for fear of an STD, then you shouldn't be with them. Or you should both get tested. The number is irrelevant. A woman could have been married to the same man, faithful, for 20 years & still end up with an STD if the guy cheated on her w/o her knowledge.

Its all about judgement of that particular person at that particular time.

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That's very dishonest, but I see what you mean. Relationship pasts can be very misleading. I personally don't like to talk about my relationship past either, so I don't ask.

But you know, a good guy is going to judge your character, not your past. So maybe it's better to just be completely honest. I guess it's about what you're after and how badly you want it.

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Originally Posted by vashti [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Whatever happened to the idea that it is rude to "kiss and tell"?

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It was a stupid ****ing idea in the first place.

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Originally Posted by boobaa [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

It's true. Smart men only need women for relief. Outside relationships, women are just a bunch of naggers good only for washing dishes. Some of them *khm* can't even write correctly.

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+a million

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Originally Posted by doppelgaenger [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

No. Trying to manipulate someone is wrong. How about we put you in a cage and poke you with a stick until you realize that?

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i am greatful to those men who made the woman that i am today.

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Originally Posted by Indignant [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

first of all there's no need to get sarcastic or agressive about my comment. as we mature, we are able to manipulate men or women as well, with well prepared arguements into changing or perfecting their behaviour to our standards. i would love to hear opinions of people over 30 on that subject. everyone will agree that our society, culture, environment and peers affect our behaviour, right? and here you have a partner who is the closest creature to you available to be guided according to your requirements.

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This is all relatively true, but I think the point of contention was where you said that ANY man or woman could be molded into your ideal partner. That is only true if the other person wants to be with you.

I also don't have a problem with the word "manipulate". We all do it with every one to some extent. Is it "bad" to praise my husband for making dinner so he is eager to do it again? Of course not, but it IS a little manipulative. They just call it "positive reinforcement" nowadays. ;)

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Originally Posted by vashti [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

This is all relatively true, but I think the point of contention was where you said that ANY man or woman could be molded into your ideal partner. That is only true if the other person wants to be with you.

I also don't have a problem with the word "manilpulate". We all do it with every one to some extent. Is it "bad" to praise my husband for making dinner so he is eager to do it again? Of course not, but it IS a little manipulative.

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i was actually quoting a French philosopher with that statement. it's tremendous to see how people react when they are not aware that the statement actually belongs to an acknowledged and respected individual.

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Originally Posted by Indignant [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

i am greatful to those men who made the woman that i am today.

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You made yourself.

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Originally Posted by vashti [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

This is all relatively true, but I think the point of contention was where you said that ANY man or woman could be molded into your ideal partner. That is only true if the other person wants to be with you.

I also don't have a problem with the word "manipulate". We all do it with every one to some extent. Is it "bad" to praise my husband for making dinner so he is eager to do it again? Of course not, but it IS a little manipulative. They just call it "positive reinforcement" nowadays. ;)

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Just to remind you, the word manipulation, in terms of relationships, has a negative connotation. But certainly, in good relationships, people don't manipulate each other; they agree with each other.

I would cook for my girlfriend if she enjoyed it, too. You're not using reinforcement; that's what you use with kids. Give your hubby more credit; you inspire him to do these things for you. :)

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Originally Posted by Indignant [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

first of all there's no need to get sarcastic or agressive about my comment. as we mature, we are able to manipulate men or women as well, with well prepared arguements into changing or perfecting their behaviour to our standards. i would love to hear opinions of people over 30 on that subject. everyone will agree that our society, culture, environment and peers affect our behaviour, right? and here you have a partner who is the closest creature to you available to be guided according to your requirements.

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Though it's true to some extent, there are obvious limitations to how much a person can be "molded". You can't expect to change a person beyond a certain level and if that level doesn't suit your requirements then you will have to change yourself (or "mold" yourself) or learn to live with it.

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Originally Posted by ecojeanne [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

let them sweat it out until YOU feel like having sex. it all about you babe!

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I think it's all about both partners and not any one individual. If one person has a higher sex driver than the other, then the one with the lower sex drive (either man or a woman) will have to learn how to satisfy their partner (if they want to see themselves as a good and caring partner of course)

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Originally Posted by Indignant [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

i was actually quoting a French philosopher with that statement. it's tremendous to see how people react when they are not aware that the statement actually belongs to an acknowledged and respected individual.

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I don't care if Mother Theresa said that, it's still wrong.

This isn't a matter of "I agree" or "disagree", it's simply an un-fact in it's most literal sense.

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Originally Posted by Mishanya [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

You can't expect to change a person beyond a certain level and if that level doesn't suit your requirements then you will have to change yourself (or "mold" yourself) or learn to live with it.

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Now, this is very true.

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Originally Posted by Indignant [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

i was actually quoting a French philosopher with that statement. it's tremendous to see how people react when they are not aware that the statement actually belongs to an acknowledged and respected individual.

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Lol, so now we are resorting to Authority? Holy rhetoric, batman. It doesn't matter who said what & how famous they are. They can still be wrong, or their original meaning can be misunderstood. I've personally met a couple of Nobel Laureates. They are very intelligent, nice guys but they are still just ppl.

Ideas should get judged for their merit, regardless of who came up with them.

Now, as for your comment, it is just silly. You cannot manipulate whoever you want into a good partner. I think I know what you are *trying* to say, but I think you need to say it better. Since I seem to remember you hope to help ppl with this kind of thing as an occupation perhaps you want to try to communicate this idea better? If ppl here disagree, you are certainly aren't going to do much better convincing your clients.

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Originally Posted by IndiReloaded [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Now, as for your comment, it is just silly. You cannot manipulate whoever you want into a good partner. I think I know what you are *trying* to say, but I think you need to say it better. Since I seem to remember you hope to help ppl with this kind of thing as an occupation perhaps you want to try to communicate this idea better? If ppl here disagree, you are certainly aren't going to do much better convincing your clients.

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Indi, I never mentioned anything about clients. I work in accounting. my english may not be up to par with most people here since it's not my first language therefore I may not communicate or express my thoughts correctly. Any russians who can help me translate my ideas here?

Read what Mish said, that's more accurate.

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Originally Posted by Mishanya [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Though it's true to some extent, there are obvious limitations to how much a person can be "molded". You can't expect to change a person beyond a certain level and if that level doesn't suit your requirements then you will have to change yourself (or "mold" yourself) or learn to live with it.

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The basic difference here is one of intent.

"Manipulate" has the connotation of subtle coercion. Sometimes without the recipients knowledge. For various reasons that I won't go into, this simply doesn't work for *long term* relationships. It is certainly possible to do, tho for short term outcomes.

What Indignant means (or should mean) is "negotiate", with all the ways that can happen. And for now that's all I'll say, except for this hint: sources of motivation.

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Originally Posted by Indignant [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Indi, I never mentioned anything about clients. I work in accounting. my english may not be up to par with most people here since it's not my first language therefore I may not communicate or express my thoughts correctly. Any russians who can help me translate my ideas here?

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Ah, my mistake then. I must be thinking of someone else. Sorry, carry on.

PS - your english is just fine, no worries. Way better than my Russian. ;)

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Originally Posted by Frasbee [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Read what Mish said, that's more accurate.

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it's an obvious that we change as well. did i not mention it previously?

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Originally Posted by Indignant [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

it's an obvious that we change as well. did i not mention it previously?

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Are you married, Indignant? Just curious.

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Originally Posted by IndiReloaded [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

What Indignant means (or should mean) is "negotiate", with all the ways that can happen. And for now that's all I'll say, except for this hint: sources of motivation.

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i guess i should've used the word "guide", we guide our partners in the direction that we like them to take. we compromise to make sure that both of us are following the same path.

And you believe this 'guiding' process will work with any old partner? I can just grab some random guy off the street and 'mold' him into my perfect partner?

to some extent all of us are "moldable." many times we quit our relationships when we don't get the expected result. i am very picky myself, but when i do find a guy who is worth my time, then i do everything possible to make sure that both of us are satisfied with this relationship and invest all of my time and energy into him.

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Originally Posted by doppelgaenger [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Just to remind you, the word manipulation, in terms of relationships, has a negative connotation.

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LOL! I think I have a fairly good grasp of the English language. :D Anyway, to manipulate is to influence. You can attach negative meaning if you choose, but it isn't inherent to the word.

That's right; I'm taking back the English language.

FWIW, Vash, I also don't have a problem with manipulation. Its just a tool. But, as you can see, some ppl do. This is one of those 'emotionally charged' words that screw ppl up, usually b/c of something to do with their upbringing. I think its something ppl get over as they start to become more self-possessed & become resigned about certain 'truths' about 'How The World Works'. ;)

Yes, for the benefit of the sensitive people, I will use "positive reinforcement". :D

Sucks, tho, eh? Takes so much longer to write. ;)

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Originally Posted by Indignant [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

i guess i should've used the word "guide", we guide our partners in the direction that we like them to take. we compromise to make sure that both of us are following the same path.

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I think guide sounds better. "Mold" tends to swing towards "Force them to change" as in "physically mold them into submission".

I on the side of not telling about sexual partners.

I have never asked my partner and he has never asked me. I don't want to know.

I dated this guy once and he had a list on his computer of all of his conquests (approx 70 in total). I thought that was pretty tacky.

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Originally Posted by Indignant [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

first of all there's no need to get sarcastic or agressive about my comment. as we mature, we are able to manipulate men or women as well, with well prepared arguements into changing or perfecting their behaviour to our standards. i would love to hear opinions of people over 30 on that subject. everyone will agree that our society, culture, environment and peers affect our behaviour, right? and here you have a partner who is the closest creature to you available to be guided according to your requirements.

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i was more in shock than sarcastic, sorry if you mistook my comment and i was facinated really wondering was it possible.

I still stand my point and say **** you to those who disagree! Seriously.

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Originally Posted by Mishanya [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

How would you like it if someone suddenly started asking you inappropriate and rude personal questions like "Have you ever masturbated to the thought of your parents" And then get angry with you if you got upset at that question?

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Wouldn't mind at all. The answer is no.

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Originally Posted by Frasbee [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

What you say will always be grounds for judgment just as much if not more than what you do. Speaking is an act in itself and worth being held accountable for.

This explains why so many think you're a tool for trying to be so objective about things. Your projected "wisdom" has come across as nothing more than contrived and instills little more than doubt in your disregard for emotion. You're hiding something. We might as well be talking to a robot.

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What am I hiding? and as far as I have read you are the only one calling me a tool. I do disregard emotion, emotions come second to logic and reasoning. You completely took words versus actions out of context. It has nothing to do with what was said here. When judging a person specifically their past is a window into who they are now for experience molds people into what they are. The past can not lie, but people can lie with their words.

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Originally Posted by boobaa [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I still stand my point and say **** you to those who disagree! Seriously.

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I get sick of reading threads and seeing boobaa saying **** you. So boobaa this one is for you, **** YOU!

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Originally Posted by Jade Altair [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

The past can not lie, but people can lie with their words.

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So, if this is so, why is it that you rely on words so much?

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Originally Posted by Jade Altair [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

When judging a person specifically their past is a window into who they are now for experience molds people into what they are. The past can not lie, but people can lie with their words.

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People do not act out of pure logic, it's unrealistic, it's virtually impossible. People act on emotion, not always unfiltered emotion, but no one chooses to do any one thing unless they feel that action has justification under the circumstances, regardless of whether they will regret it later.

Also, one's past isn't always an accurate depiction of who a person was, and definitely not an accurate depiction of who they are now. For even bad decisions should not define a person as a bad decision maker, especially if they've learned from that experience

With your logic, a thief is always a thief, a liar always a liar. Your disregard for intent and circumstances is not prime to establish any romantic relationship (which is what we're discussing). You're asking questions our President-to-be is asking it's the applicants of his cabinet.

Now if you want to ask how many penises she's sucked, or whether you can pump her ass full of sperm on the first date, be my guest, the point is you're definitely not going to get any points from it. In fact, if you ever did ask such intruding questions so early in a relationship, the majority of people would probably think your actions were illogical.

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Originally Posted by Jade Altair [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Wouldn't mind at all. The answer is no.

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How about if you were asked:

How often do you check out little kids and then jack off to them?

How many times have you tried to suck yourself off?

How often do you finger your arsehole?

Hey!

A partner has the right to know :D


On a side note since you like to judge people based on their history. How about someone close to you found out about a naughty little thing you did and then judged you for the rest of your life for it? It doesn't matter what you do from now on, that's it, you are what you did. If you pooped your pants when you were two, well that pretty much sums up who you are and always will be. Right?

That's a good idea!

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Originally Posted by IndiReloaded [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

So, if this is so, why is it that you rely on words so much?

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Rely on my words to do what? I use my words to prove a point and not to describe and express my character ...especially to defend my past...I have done what I have done and I am today who I am because of what I have done, seen, and witnessed.

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Originally Posted by Mishanya [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

How often do you check out little kids and then jack off to them?

Not since I was a kid myself.

How many times have you tried to suck yourself off?

The idea never crossed my mind, isn't it impossible?

How often do you finger your arsehole?

I don't believe I ever have.

A partner has the right to know :D

Ok

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Anything else? I don't mind when people judge me by my past as long as it is logical and to their emotions. They can leave me alone.

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Originally Posted by Frasbee [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

People do not act out of pure logic, it's unrealistic, it's virtually impossible. People act on emotion, not always unfiltered emotion, but no one chooses to do any one thing unless they feel that action has justification under the circumstances, regardless of whether they will regret it later.

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Are you making excuses for people who make hasty and poor judgment based on their faulty emotions? I can't really argue here. I think before I do my actions. I don't judge people on just their past..OI judge them on their future as well. My point was that I don't judge them simply on their word. It means NOTHING to me for someone to tell me they are honest for example...or dependable. The truth is, we will see when the time comes and depending on how their past is that is how much doubt in their success I will have. I don't let emotions cloud my judgment but doesn't mean I don't have any or enjoy them.

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Originally Posted by Jade Altair [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

How often do you check out little kids and then jack off to them?

Not since I was a kid myself.

How many times have you tried to suck yourself off?

The idea never crossed my mind, isn't it impossible?

How often do you finger your arsehole?

I don't believe I ever have.

Anything else? I don't mind when people judge me by my past as long as it is logical and to their emotions. They can leave me alone.

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WRONG!

According to statistics you must have done any of those things.
So it is obvious that you have an unstable past (not to mention the instability that must have come with jacking off to little kids when you were a kid) that you yourself want to hide and are uncomfortable with but are being deceptive about it.


Why are you being so deceptive and untrustworthy?

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Originally Posted by Mishanya [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

How about if you were asked:

How often do you check out little kids and then jack off to them?

How many times have you tried to suck yourself off?

How often do you finger your arsehole?

Hey!

A partner has the right to know :D


On a side note since you like to judge people based on their history. How about someone close to you found out about a naughty little thing you did and then judged you for the rest of your life for it? It doesn't matter what you do from now on, that's it, you are what you did. If you pooped your pants when you were two, well that pretty much sums up who you are and always will be. Right?

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How exactly did you come up with those questions? Something on your mind?

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Originally Posted by Jade Altair [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Are you making excuses for people who make hasty and poor judgment based on their faulty emotions? I can't really argue here. I think before I do my actions. I don't judge people on just their past..OI judge them on their future as well. My point was that I don't judge them simply on their word. It means NOTHING to me for someone to tell me they are honest for example...or dependable. The truth is, we will see when the time comes and depending on how their past is that is how much doubt in their success I will have. I don't let emotions cloud my judgment but doesn't mean I don't have any or enjoy them.

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So wait, if your opinion is in no way affected by what someone says, why in the hell would you ask them how many partners they've had on the first date? Based of what you've just said knowing their past is moot.

Secondly, judgment is based off of emotion. Innate objects do not judge because they cannot feel on any level. Happiness affects your judgment, anger affects your judgment, frustration affects your judgment, sadness affects your judgment, heat affects your judgment, cold affects your judgment, pleasure affects your judgment, pain affects your judgment, hunger affects your judgment. If you experience any of these one things you are subject to your emotions. There are very few people who've managed to rise above many of these factors, but not many, and I don't suspect you're one of them.

Thirdly, you cannot approach romantic relationships (which at the very core of it, is what this thread is about), with logic alone. Wait, you can, you simply wouldn't get very far. Trust me, I tried it, and the only reason why I'm in the relationship I'm in now is because I threw my "logic first" strategy out the window.

I've yet to see you provide any of this wisdom you claim to possess, it all sounds like shit I'd read in a "Buddhism for Dummies" book.

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Originally Posted by Jade Altair [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Rely on my words to do what? I use my words to prove a point and not to describe and express my character ...especially to defend my past...I have done what I have done and I am today who I am because of what I have done, seen, and witnessed.

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Originally Posted by Frasbee [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

So wait, if your opinion is in no way affected by what someone says, why in the hell would you ask them how many partners they've had on the first date? Based of what you've just said knowing their past is moot.

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Bingo! We have a winner. :D

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I've yet to see you provide any of this wisdom you claim to possess, it all sounds like shit I'd read in a "Buddhism for Dummies" book.

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+1

You have a logical consistency problem, Jade. For someone who claims to rely on logic, this is ironic. BTW, its fine to work out your new found ideas online here, but just spare us the lectures. We got your number. ;)