lets see what this bitch has to say...
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lets see what this bitch has to say...
I curiouse what happens, don't fall for her manipulations Vince!
yeah, that slow motion feeling when it seems like nothing is real?Quote:
Originally Posted by VincenzoG91 [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
Oh wow. I don't... I can't... wow.
This is Amy's side of the story.
Executive summary version: Craig is not her fiance.
It was tough getting Amy to talk at first. She was late because she had an emotional breakdown on the way over and pulled over until it passed. I served up red wine, cheese and crackers to calm her down, and talked about how my mom was doing for a bit. Then Amy relaxed enough to start talking.
Back in early 2005, I got really busy at a demanding new job, and I was struggling under the weight of a big debt management plan for costs that I covered while Amy was recovering from foot surgery. Amy drifted away and got busy taking some classes again in the fall and with extra stuff like student senate. That's when she met Craig. He was attracted to her right away, and aggressively pursued her. She felt like we weren't seeing each other at the time (true, because I was so broke), so we weren't a couple anymore, and Craig finally wore her down. They went out some, and she started to fall for him, too. She did fall in love with him, and she felt bad about it because she never got around to officially breaking things off with me. And a lot of time passed, so she figured that maybe I just moved on anyway, despite my weekly emails.
In truth, I nearly did move on. In fall of 2006, I joined a dating site, set up a profile, and contacted some women. I even talked to one woman on the phone, a cute single mother who it turned out shared mutual acquaintances with me. But I mentioned the debt management plan and she suddenly lost interest. Also, the mutual acquaintance was unfortunately somebody I dated briefly years earlier and broke things off abruptly because I didn't like competing with another guy for her attention.
Then Amy came back into my life. She realized that Craig was a serious control freak, constantly checking up on her and telling her what to do. Amy hates confrontations, she tends to run away from them, so she didn't break things off with Craig, but she did start hanging out with me again. Besides, at this point, Craig had moved an hour away from the metro area, so he just wasn't around much anyway. It started when I ran into severe car trouble and needed a ride from her. She started to realize how much she missed me and soon we were talking about getting a place together. I did most of the looking, but it was Amy who found the really neat place that we chose. As I was gearing up for the move, Amy tried repeatedly to break up with Craig. He was just so persistent that almost broke up with me one month before she moved in. I remember that night, she came over to break up with me, I got her drunk and we played a computer game together, then she passed out half-naked in my bed. A month later, she moved in as planned.
Now that Amy was living with me Craig kept blackmailing her. Sometimes he threatened that he would tell me that she was cheating on me. Sometimes he threatened that he would go over to my place and beat me up or "x, y, and z" as she phrased it. So he bullied her into staying in a controlling relationship with him even after she lived with me. She tried to break things off with me a couple of times at first... I remember random and bizarre fights where she would flip out over I don't know what, and then lock herself in the bathroom. Anyway, I was patient and caring, for the most part, and her cat and I really bonded. She got comfortable and really started to enjoy living with me, but Craig kept bothering her. And by now, he had met a lot of her friends and family, so he was threatening to tell all of them that Amy was a cheater.
In May of 2008, Craig bought a house in Minneapolis, and started to really pressure Amy again to spend time with him. She was in a panic when I proposed last January, and finally decided to protect me by breaking up with me. Craig insisted that she move in with him immediately, and also that all of her stuff in storage be moved into his house. Amy hated living like a prisoner there, so they haven't had sex in almost a year now. Craig has called her every name in the book, including in public, and especially calls her a whore or a prostitute. To get back at her for living with me for so long, he even slept with a prostitute that he met throgh... wait for it... yes... Craigslist. And then he bragged about it to Amy afterwards.
Last fall, I noticed that Amy seemed to be getting a lot closer to me again, in terms of affection and in time spent with me. She still felt trapped, but she knew that she wanted to be with me. That explains how we ended up in bed together last month. Today, she told me that this last year (since she moved out) she felt like it was our best year ever in terms of getting along. I'm a guy, so my perspective is partial agreement, except that there wasn't enough sex compared to when we were living together.
Anyway, Craig was snooping through her stuff again and found a car repair receipt with my name on it from December, and realized that we were still in contact. So after all these years of threatening to confront me, he finally did it on Monday of this week. Heh, that must have given him pause when he saw my size 14 shoes outside the apartment door, especially the combat boots. I'm a few inches taller than him, have broader shoulders, and I've been lifting weights for the last 20 years.
They aren't getting married. Amy wants out of her imprisonment at Craig's, but she doesn't want me to get hurt. She didn't know me in the '90s, when I once charged into a crack house with a tire iron to recover some stolen property of mine and got in a shoving match with a gun-toting drug dealer. I'm not afraid of anybody, though I'm not as reckless as I once was. Anyway, I told her that I need a lot of time to think about all of this, because I don't know if I can believe her. She understood. I took back my keys, and I'm going to have the locks changed anyway, since Craig sounds like trouble. Then I texted Craig to tell him that Amy and I finally talked and I couldn't tell if she was lying and I didn't care anymore. I told him that I'm out of this mess and wished them good luck together.
But the truth is, I'm going to meet with Amy one more time. We talked for over two hours and weren't finished, and didn't even get to my pages of questions. I'm suspending judgment on the whole situation for now, until I can take more time to check out the facts independently. I have a lot of friends, and some of them can get at a lot of information. I already know Craig's full name, address, credit report and recent addresses, thanks to some footwork by one of my friends. I'm going to ask Amy to put me in touch with some of her closest friends and hear what they have to say, and see how those stories match up. If her story checks out okay, then I will help her get free of him. I don't know if I want to get back together with her, but if she's trapped in a scary situation, I'll be damned if I'm going to tolerate that. I've gone to the wall for other friends for less, I'm not going to let this slide.
I’m going to have her start telling her friends and family what has been going on, and then help her move into a roommate situation somewhere. Once her friends and family have helped her move out, she can get a restraining order against Craig and start moving on. Next fall, I’m buying a house no matter what, and since my real name (which is not VincenzoG91) is absurdly common, I should be safely off anybody’s radar. If she goes through all that and gets the restraining order, I will finally believe her story and possibly take her back.
For what it's worth, certain specific details in her story matched up with information that my bill collector friend dug up for me earlier this week. And when I texted Craig to tell him I'm out of this mess, he kept pushing for extra details, so I could see the pushy, controlling aspect that Amy talked about. And my neighbor agreed that Craig's initial approach the other night seemed forced, when he claimed that he thought that I was just Amy's landlord who helped her out. I don't think my neighbor caught most of the conversation, but he might have heard a fair amount through the door, and he did know when the guy left because he promptly came over with beer for me.
I wouldn't know who or what to believe
If she lied before, I'd be wary of trusting her word again. You never get the whole truth, that is for sure.
Maybe she's saying all this and because she still doesn't know where she stands with him??
That is why you remain 'cautious'.
why can't she get herself out of this mess? she's grown.
Control freaks usually like to isolate their victims. If this story is true, Craig did the opposite, by aggressively moving into her circle of friends and family to mark his territory. And when she wanted out, he threatened to tell everybody that she was a cheater. I guess.
If she wants out, I'm not doing this for her. I will help her get motivated to talk to her friends and family, to get their help. But until she actually moves out and gets a fresh start somewhere else, and gets a restraining order against the guy, I'm only providing moral support. Because if her story is true, I've been in danger for years from this guy that I didn't even know about. So when she goes through the process of getting away from him, I don't want him snooping around my place and finding her car here. First she gets away, then I will think about taking her back.
The unsettling part is that I may not have heard the whole truth yet. Parts of both of their stories match, while other parts are in direct conflict. And parts of both their stories match up with things that I've been wondering about for a long time, and parts of her story match up with my bill collector friend's research.
Yeah, it's possible that she is still trying to keep her foot in my door in case things don't work out with her fiance, if Craig is telling the truth.Quote:
Originally Posted by xxazurexx [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
I told her that she can't live here and I'm not spending money on her anymore for now, because any suspicious cashflows could get her in trouble with Craig. And I told her that I want to talk more about all of this sometime, but because of Craig's paranoia, there is no immediate rush.
Maybe it's just the sense of adrenalin that I get from a threat to my safety, but I feel almost cheerful right now.
Vince, this sounds like an awful situation. I really feel for you, and all you're going through.
But dude.... her story seemed seriously skewed.
She's just... TOO much the victim. All these threats, he's so controlling, he insults her and degrades her... Maybe true. But it seems a little convenient, doesn't it, that she's telling you all of this AFTER Craig finally confronted you? She could have avoided the whole mess.... he threatening to tell you she cheated, telling her family and friends she was a cheater.... By just, ya know, telling you herself! That would have avoided the big whole messy drama.
Look.... far as I can tell, they both seem sketchy. I'm not sure how getting in touch with friends of Amy is going to confirm anything for you. If she threw you for such a loop-you, who she was DATING-what makes you think she hasn't bamboozled her friends as well? Or have friends who will support whatever crazy bs she comes up with?
It's good that you can find it in your heart to give Amy a chance, but at the same time... look at this mess! If her story really IS true, it means you're gonna be dealing with Craig for as long as you're with Amy. The girl can't seem to stand on her own two feet, which means she's ALWAYS going to have this kind of stuff following her around. She describes "living like a prisoner" in his house and yet STILL couldn't fill you in?? Think of what that means for your future together!
I dunno, man, I know you've got a lot to rehash with the girl, but at the same time, it sounds (personally) like she's just pulling you back into her web of lies/cowardice. (At the very least, it's cowardice and some alarming co-dependence.) Just one two hour conversation and you're already leaning towards the sympathetic/savior. Is further conversation with this girl REALLY gonna free you... or just sink you into the drama deeper?
Yeah, MAYBE she's telling the truth (seems a pretty big maybe to me), but even if she is, is this the sort of thing you wanna deal with for the rest of your life?? I mean, what does she have, beer-dispensing nipples? (I kid, I kid.)
I agree dont be her hero she still lied if this was me i would have told someone periodQuote:
Originally Posted by misombra [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
Run run run Amy is nothing but trouble
Glad you have cheered up.Quote:
Originally Posted by VincenzoG91 [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
I hope things turn out the way you want them too :)
Vince,
Please tread lightly, you sound like a really nice guy- and you have to keep in mind that people can sense that and take advantage of you. If she is manipulative, she already knows she can feed you lines and you will take her word for it.
Listen, and take some time to think. She has had days, literally, to craft a story that you will believe. She has known you for years so she can use what she knows of you to her advantage. Most people, if they are accused of something, will fight to the end and defend their honor. If this was true, if Craig really was the guy she paints him to be, she would have driven to your place that night and explained everything. After all, you sound like you could physically take care of this guy if he was a problem, so any controlling/emotional abuse this guy could have suggested should have been more reason for her to run to you in comfort and explain the situation. She had not days, but years, to tell you this was going on.
I am not going to give you any flank for wanting to believe her. When we love someone we put full trust in their words, we want to believe them. But something isn't right here.
Think about that night you met Craig. The stories he told, how you felt when he left. Think about when you started connecting the dots, all of a sudden there were gapping holes in the relationship. And how did it feel in your gut? The pit of your stomach, as you reached out of the fog? What did your gut tell you?
You my friend, can't rely on anyone, but yourself. Not Amy, not Craig. As someone put on another forum I frequent "There is your story, there is their story, and then there is the truth". You will find the truth, but listen to your gut, pull up any red flags you have ignored or have been blind to. It's obvious you still care about the girl, as you should, you sound like a compassionate person- you wouldn't be human if you didn't. But really do some soul searching, listen to yourself & don't second guess. Don't make excuses for her or yourself.
If a dear friend told you this story, what would you tell them? Look at it as an outsider looking in, don't let your romantic feelings dictate the future of the relationship. Ignore the heart and see what your mind says about it.
[url=http://www.truthaboutdeception.com/lying-and-deception/confronting-a-partner/compulsive-lying/types-of-liars.html]Pathological versus Compulsive Liars - Truth About Deception[/url]
Some people are good at it and dont forget you have been helping Amy financally so she has a reason to keep you around
No matter what, I'm taking immediate steps in response to this situation: locks are getting changed, and now that I've told Craig that I'm gone, I'm done talking to him.
I agree, Amy's story is a lot to take at face value. So I won't. I'm going to verify any facts that I can before I take any further action. And I'm going to take some time out from all of this. Craig needs time to calm down and forget about me. And I need time to think about this, lots of time. Even if every word Amy said is true, my life would be much easier if I just ignored her and moved on, and I was just starting to look forward to moving on. I already have friends trying to set me up, I'm going to a goth fashion show next week, and a distant female friend is thinking about visiting me to "cheer me up" in a physical way.
But it's true, I still care about Amy. I can't shut off more than seven years of feelings just like that.
i would tell her to contact you whenever she was out of her so called mess that it seems she's created and kept up for all these years. she's taken so much from you and now she wants more.
she is really a waste of energy.
Vince. Dear god no. Just no, please.
She doesn't need your help. Nor does she deserve it. If she needed your help, she could have asked for it at any point over the last half decade. She ****ed you over, plain and simple. I don't care what outside forces, real or fabricated, made her behave this way - what she has already admitted to was just so appallingly wrong, so excruciatingly hurtful to you.
I know you still care about her. Of course you do, because you're a good guy. But she does not deserve another ounce of your effort. Are you going to feel good about yourself if you help her out? Don't let her further ruin your self-worth by helping her out of this mess she created by being dishonest and deceitful.
Why even bother doing any more fact-checking to see if her bullshit lines up? You already know enough to know that she isn't what you thought she was.
She's a sociopath. A pathological liar. No conscience at all, so I doubt she'd ever feel guilty.
I had someone like this working for me years ago. She lied about everything under the sun (even about being pregnant), stole anything that wasn't tied down. A few months after she left my employment I got a call from another office asking about her, because she'd stolen a bunch of cash from them. And she seemed like the most sincere, sweetest person when I hired her, and continued to seem so. It took me months to figure out which employee was stealing money out of my wallet, siphoning cash from the front office, and running off with small appliances. She told some amazing stories about her life which I'm now certain were all fabricated.
Why I bring her up is the fact that when I interviewed her, one of my staff came to me and said, "don't hire her, everything she says is a lie, she's just like my sister". I brushed her off and ignored the advice. In the end, she was dead on right.
My point is that some people seem to be able to spot this type of person from a mile away and others, like you and I (and Craig), we haven't got a clue. Me, I want to believe that people are basically good. I'm a trusting soul and that also makes me a good "mark" for con artists and other types of mean people. You too, have a big heart and a soft spot for people in need, yes?
But this gal isn't mean, she's just downright sick. Like I already said, a sociopath. Not capable of having any kind of social conscience. But to you she made herself appear perfectly normal. People like this are masters at crafting their lies. Ever heard of the "travelling salesman" who keeps wives in multiple cities? There are women who have been married to these types for years and never suspected a thing.
So take it easy on yourself and don't feel like it's your fault or you should have figured it out. She's the sick one, not you. And she's had lots of practice in acting perfectly sweet and sincere while stabbing others in the back. She is very good at it, and you're not to blame for being taken in by her lies. What you're going through is hard enough, so please be gentle with yourself.
Follow the advice of the other posters and delete her from every part of your life.
We're here for you.
I sent her contact information for local womens shelters. And I am asking some friends of mine to investigate her story for me, see if there are any facts that can be verified. Skeptical friends will be doing the checking for me so that the process remains impartial. I'm not doing anything about anything until I have more facts, and I'm taking a break from that mess effective now. If enough of her story checks out, I will help out indirectly, but not with money.
It seems to me that, aside from some public embarrassment, she should be able to handle this situation more easily without me than with me. Craig might not even want her much longer if he feels like he finally won, especially once he realizes how high-maintenance she can be.
One thing that my friends will be looking into, that she didn't even mention, is if this guy has a criminal background. If there were really threats made towards me by a criminal, that's different, and I don't take that from anybody, especially a criminal. Nobody threatens me and gets away with it. My previous ex was a criminal, and her friends were criminals, but they learned the hard way not to mess with me.
*gives a virtual hug*
Probably letting go to the emotional side of all these 7 years is the hardest thing to do, but eventually it has to happen. Her story seems flawed, and as MerryH said, Amy could have asked for help any time during your relationship...
Just think about whether these two statements make sense together:
1."Sometimes he threatened that he would go over to my place and beat me up or "x, y, and z" as she phrased it. So he bullied her into staying in a controlling relationship with him even after she lived with me."
2. "Nobody threatens me and gets away with it. My previous ex was a criminal, and her friends were criminals, but they learned the hard way not to mess with me."
Didn't you say this guy was about four inches shorter than you and someone you could easily have taken on? Don't you think Amy could figure that out?
I guess it depends on x, y, and z. Maybe x was vandalize my car, y was get some friends together and beat me up, and z was set my apartment building on fire. She says that this guy has known where I live for years. He says that he thought I was a creepy old landlord who wouldn't let Amy have visitors, so seems to imply that he has known where I lived for years, too, though he initially acted as though he wasn't sure if he was at the right place.Quote:
Originally Posted by twinrexes [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
She ran short on time yesterday, but I did ask her what she wanted from me. Did she want to spend the rest of her life with Craig? She said definitely not, she wants to get away from him. I asked her what else she wants right now, and she didn't seem to know what I meant. She didn't ask for money, she didn't ask to move back in with me, she didn't ask for anything. She just wanted to finally tell me what had been going, and to apologize. She said she understood if I never wanted to see her again. I said that I did want to talk to her again, and also to her friends, but I didn't promise her anything else.
I need a lot of time to think about this, and it still seems like it will be easier for her to get away from Craig if I'm out of the picture. If what she told me is true, he has been secretly and resentfully competing with me for years. If his story is true, then he has got to be worried about me. Now that he has "won" and has time to take stock of the quality of his relationship with Amy, he may realize that he doesn't want the prize anymore.
There is one particular incident that has been troubling me during all this. The day her cat died, in June of 2009. We had a nice night together and a nice morning at our place, but I was going to spend the day playing cards with friends across town. Late in the afternoon, she called in tears to tell me that her cat died. Her cat was nearly 16, and he died climbing up to sit next to her. Had a seizure and then died. Anyway, I threw down my cards and told her I was coming home immediately to take care of her. She strongly protested and told me not to come home. I couldn't understand why she would say that.
Cards wrapped up 90 minutes later, and friends said that I should head home to take care of her. I stopped off to pick up some flowers and called her as I was driving. She again insisted that I not come home, and I said that nobody was going to stop me. When I showed up, her best friend Julia (who doesn't like me) was there, but Julia gave me a sympathetic look when I showed up. Amy was holding her cat and crying. I went in the other room to give them privacy, but asked to say goodbye to the cat a little later. Amy laid him town in the lower half of the cat carrier, on top of a nice towel. I sat there for a while, stroking his soft fur, murmuring "good boy, good boy." I cried, too, and I'm crying right now, nearly two years later, because that cat and I got to be close.
Now I wonder about that day. I think that she called Craig first, and he was already on his way over. That's why she freaked out about me coming home. She managed to get Craig to leave, I guess, before I showed up. I mean, I don't know if that's what happened, but it certainly would explain an odd and memorable incident. So I'm inclined to think that there is some truth to both of their stories.
I've been thinking about facts that can be researched and verified:
1. Engagement. It's customary for an engagement to be publicly announced at some point, like in the newspaper. So that's something that can be researched. This is big, because if Craig lied about this, then he's just some stranger who told me a big lie.
2. I don't know, I'm open to suggestions. Obviously, there isn't going to be a public record of a lot of this situation.
I'm just going to step back from this for a while. See how I feel later on. I finally got a good night of sleep last night. I'm pretty sure that I still want to talk to Amy at least one more time, and I want to talk to Julia about all this, to see how well the stories match up. It's easy to repeat a simple lie, but this is a long story, and Julia is her best friend and cousin, so let's see if Julia can repeat the same long story. Also, Julia never liked me in the early days when I dated Amy, but if all this stuff about Craig is true, than Julia may have a better attitude about me now. She seemed nice enough the day the cat died.
Considering that she's a grown-up too, how was she able to believe all those (supposed) threats? Isn't that a bit puerile?
I'm thinking that if things had been that bad with him, she could have ran to you at anytime and especially if the situation is, as she claims. That she met this guy innocently and when you two were seperated.
Surely she could have said something along the lines that she met a guy while you two were seperated and he blackmailed her and to stay in this relationship????
Knoiwng the type of guy you are....she'd think you would understand surely??? She's told you all of this now and hoping you'd understand.....why not years ago and if he's been such a bastard to her???
Now if she wanted to escape him 'that' badly, if he was the controlling freak she makes out, who bullys, beats and blackmails her, she could have taken the opportunity to escape and as soon as you became fully aware that she's been cheating on you these past 5 years. If she had wanted to get out that badly, she'd have ran to you IMMEDIATLEY looking for forgiveness....
But she didn't take it as an opportunity to escape him. She remained with him and It took her almost FIVE days and to come and talk to you. Is he really this bad guy she claims????
It's always usually the case when affairs are disovered, that both parties in the affair will try to paint each other 'black'. Both will accuse the other of having done this, having done that and when trying to save their own necks and they shift the blame and the fault onto one another.
Like the married man who gets found out by his wife.....he will say 'She came onto me first'. 'She wouldn't leave me alone'....etc, etc....
Yet the affair partner would say that he was the one who came onto her, he wouldn't leave her alone, etc....
You can never quite believe, what either of them tell you....
Which is why you never get the truth and the whole truth.
Unfortunately I feel at some point the OP will start believing her because he will want to believe...and then she will win him back over again...I've seen it happen before..some people are pretty convincing while others can't let go...
Vincenzo watch out for yourself...
So true. And they tend to believe the partner and because they are in denial that the partner would ever hurt them or cheat on them purposely. The way a betrayed partner thinks is, there just had to be GOOD enough reasons why they would do what they did...else they wouldn't have cheated.Quote:
Originally Posted by sookie6 [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
In this case, her cheating would appear to have been excused and because she was under the influence of a blackmailing bully, who beat her. She's playing the 'victim' and it appears Vin is now seeing her as the 'victim'......when in fact it is Vin who is the 'real' victim in all of this.
She chose to cheat and quite simply because she'd wanted to cheat. Whether this Craig blackmailed her not....she always had a CHOICE. Nobody can force us to remain iin a situation that we don't want to be in and who the heck in their right mind would remain in this kind of forced situation, where he'd blackmailed, bullied and beat her??. She stayed with him and because she wanted too.
It doesn't kinda all add up to me.....
that's what happened to my dog baron :( i'm crying now too.Quote:
Had a seizure and then died.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VincenzoG91 [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
O.k. I read the entire account...and guess what? It is entirely plausible given her history, lack of communication and most importantly:
Your relationship with Amy was NEVER on solid ground from the get go, dude. In fact, she was able to conveniently handle and manage
BOTH you and Craig out of the distances between you and her, and her and Craig. While her story makes sense (as in I can identify with her piss poor excuses)
because I've heard them, and used them myself when I couldn't "man up" to face my issues head on: it does NOT absolve her of her failure to communicate (to you) about the truth
when this first happened...She lied, nonetheless...and giving you exact details of "sex" won't enhance her lies nor disposition given her history...
While it does sound as though Craig is controlling: SHE used this trait of his to allow her to hide behind it.
In normal people: they eliminate the middle man by telling her friends: Craig and I are over, and he's a heebie jeebie creep. She didn't.
Had she taken initiative *for herself* (not for you) this would never have happened. She still took advantage of you, and while she does get some points
for finally telling you (she only told you because CRAIG told you first) -if you have to find out from a 3rd party: she truly never gave a shit about you.
Pity does not = caring/compassion.
The thing is: she does deserve to be heard, and even forgiven...she told you the truth no matter what. Is it the whole truth?
Well, see...You'll NEVER know dude. In fact your "digging" in the dirt is a testament of your controlling tendencies because you feel compelled
to corroborate the story... <--------THIS is irrelevant...
She does need help...Not from you, from herself.
A simple plan of action is required. If you "help" her get rid of this guy: consider the facts...
He would never believe you because he won't hear the truth from Amy. She's continuing to LIE to him as she has to you -see that?-
The whole point of coming clean: is so that Amy will learn that lying doesn't provide closure: in fact you get the polar opposite.
Objection....Leading the witness.Quote:
Originally Posted by VincenzoG91 [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
Agreed. Trying to get inside the head of a person who bargains and negotiates within as to what they will tolerate is unknown. (even to them)Quote:
Originally Posted by ammi00 [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
In this same situation I was a 10, and this other dude was an ex convict (project housing Carmelitos off Via Wanda, in long beach, ca)
She had the MF'er on the phone as I made a surprise visit...I grabbed the phone, and with tact diplomacy found out the nature of their relationship...
He told me everything...She denied everything...so it was simple, right?
I asked her if she truly loved me as she claimed (while she was crying and begging me to stay) I told her:
"Grab the phone, and tell him you are in love with me, are my woman, and just allowed me to nut in her mouth" (ghetto talk for BJ)
She looked at me like a deer in headlights...She couldn't, but grabbed the phone, and told the dude "call you later" and hung up.
She never reasoned, never made an attempt to apologize, just grabbed my hand and told me "let's go" lol, right!
Sociopaths, or even damaged people don't know WTF they are doing -even though they choose to do it!
Do you know how many people in this world exist -where unless you actually SAW them do something...they use the bart simpson's defense?
"I didn't do it"
"Nobody saw me do it"
"You can't prove anything"
As Pablo Francisco would say, "YOU weren't THERE!!!!"
it does sound like she may have been a sociopath...
There's one reason why she felt that she couldn't talk about it back then. During the first year we were together, she discovered that I had an anger management problem. It was just her, I was sometimes getting into borderline road rage territory, and told her about some violent incidents from years past, like the crackhouse situation. I was physically abusive to her or around her, but I was verbally abusive and sometimes hit inanimate objects in anger. The first time we had a big (verbal fight), she was scared of my intensity, and the volume of voice (think marine drill sergeant volume). Within a couple of weeks, I signed up for an anger management class. Most of my local friends couldn't understand it, but old friends that knew me in my teens and 20s were really glad to hear about this. Even after taking the class, which was a very positive experience, I had some occasional relapses as I went through financial hell, supporting her completely after her foot surgeries, even after losing my job and then landing a much lower-paying temp job.Quote:
Originally Posted by xxazurexx [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
It's likely that her perception of my anger made her avoid an official breakup and just let us drift apart due to minimal contact. And during that drifting phase, she met up with Craig. I still consider that a betrayal, but I admit that the circumstances make it comparable to the classic Ross/Rachel dispute from Friends. ("We were on a break!") So when she decided to leave Craig and go back to me in late 2006, she was reluctant to tell me the truth, but afraid when Craig threatened to expose her.
Still, I really did take that anger management course to heart, and got even better since then at handling anger. It saved me at my current job, during the stressful early years working directly under the first CEO, who often lashed out during her long, messy divorce. Thanks to anger management, I also managed to survive nearly getting fired by the paranoid second CEO. The current CEO and I have almost identical Myers-Briggs profiles and get along great. In the last year, Amy finally got over thinking of me as an angry that couldn't handle the truth, though she hadn't seen any angry incidents from me since, um, July of 2009. I think that the utterly civilized way that I handled our breakup last February really opened her eyes.
He wasn't a bastard the whole time. She admitted that she fell in love with him in 2005, and it took her a year to realize that he was a control freak. It was when she tried to break things off with him and get back with me that he started pressuring her and controlling her, threatening to tell me and everybody else that she was a cheater.
I'm thinking that there was a certain element of grass is always greener. Towards the end of their happy year together, she started to feel that she was better off with me. After she had been living with me for two years and we went through a real rough spot, she thought she might be better off with him. And once she finally moved in with him a year ago, he felt confident enough in his control of her that he could be verbally abusive all the time. He must have really resented those years when she lived at my place.
I know, I should be taking Craig's side into account, that he didn't know who I was until this week. But my neighbor was really put off by his whole manner and says that he seemed suspicious when he showed up here. And the idea that Craig knew she lived here for 2.5 years but never visited once because Amy told him she couldn't have visitors? That's really hard to believe.
There are many women who endure years of physical abuse without leaving, and even make excuses for the abuser. Amy didn't say anything about this guy ever actually doing anything violent, just verbal abuse and threats of violence towards me. So it seems like it would be even easier for her to rationalize staying, to avoid conflict.Quote:
Originally Posted by xxazurexx [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
By the way, I spent 10 hours today with several close friends, and we spent about 4 hours going over her story and Craig's story like police detectives working the transcript from an interrogation.
In the end, none of them could 100% believe her story. Even taking it at face value, they felt that her behavior was poor, that she should have clearly broken up with me before dating Craig, and that she should have had Craig completely out of her life before coming back to me. And that I should have known about Craig right away if he was hassling her.
They felt that Craig's story was simpler, and had a chance of being 100% true. But I caught my neighbor on the way out the door and asked him to share his thoughts with my friends about Craig, and he talked about how he was so suspicious, he almost wrote down Craig's license plate number.
Today is the first that I've really felt angry at times about the whole mess. I wanted to yell at her and punch Craig and smash up some furniture. I decided that I'm going to officially dump Amy the next time we meet, but tell her that I might be willing to start dating her in a few months if she could prove that Craig was out of her life and she also met several conditions. I need a break from drama, and if she really wants to leave Craig, it should be easier if he doesn't feel like he is competing with me anymore.
Many aspects of our relationship that have troubled me over the years are allegedly related to Craig's interference. If we start dating again, I expect to see all of those behaviors to change for the better. If I don't see substantive improvements, it will be really easy for me to dump her.
Also, honestly, I just want a break anyway right now, so I can have some meaningless flings for a while.
Well, I'm glad you've decided not to see her, but why are you even entertaining the possibility of getting back together with her if certain conditions are met? That just seems...really unhealthy. And kind of controlling in a weird way. Like if you require physical proof or certain documentations in order to date someone, doesn't that seem wrong to you?
Anyway, there's a lot more that could be said about that, but I don't want to give you a hard time. The important thing is that you're going to stay away from her for now. In a few days or weeks, once you're able to think a little more clearly I really hope you'll change your mind about getting back with her.
Conditions... like, she moves out of Craig's place. That's mandatory, nobody should date a person still living with an abusive ex. If her story holds water, then she should get a restraining order against him, and I'd like to see it. Before I have sex with her again, it would be nice to see that she has been tested for STDs, since she insisted on that before we started having sex in 2004. If she objects and finds these conditions burdensome, that's cool, I will date other women instead.
Maybe that's just the anger talking, but even the best possible interpretation of her story means that some jealous rival has been secretly threatening me for years now. Yeah, I still care about her, though maybe I won't in a couple of months. But if I do still care about her months from now, then I would be cautiously willing to give her another chance. If she doesn't think that I'm worth the effort, to hell with her.
Are you a martyrQuote:
Originally Posted by VincenzoG91 [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
I think you'd be really disappointed with yourself if you gave her another chance. Getting back with her would be a huge blow to your dignity. But, I guess you'll just deal with that situation if it ever arises.
Now go have some fun meaningless flings.