Inner Game

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Originally Posted by bohemiandonut [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Okay GrkScorp, I decided I don't have time for this dating bullshit and I just want my mean ex-girlfriend back. Besides altering my cognitive frame so that I in actuality do NOT want her back, or publically dating a bunch of high value sluts, what can I do to get the bitch back?

Bitches are such sluts.

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First of all.. that's like saying "homosexuals are gay"

Secondly, depending on how you broke things of, or what the exact situation is with you and your ex.. It would still make more sense, and take less time.. to just go out, and meet other people, who just so happen to be girls..

Altering your frame.. lol.. not going to work with your LTR-ex,

- Listen, honestly.. a part we all have, men and women.. is the ego.. if you know about cognitive frames, you know about the ego.. we all have it.. it's nice, warm and cozy in the front of our head.. the pre-frontal cortex.. It's such a powerful motivator for action that a new science of marketing aims at exploiting it "neuromarketing"

- Now, you can "call" girls "high value b*tches".. but in reality.. all they are, are mostly very nice & sweet girls who are just insecure about their value, and so put up a "mask, face, front, act" to try and overinflate their value to appear higher than anyone else's..

- Take a moment, and shift your understanding of the human brain to a very important region.. the amygdala.. Give it some thought.. what exactly does this mean in terms of competative advantage?

- The ego is a strong motivator, we all want the best for ourselves.. and to get that best, we may feel we have to be difficult.. it's a natural urge, and you'll see why.. but it's also a culturally programmed urge in girls.. against the weapon of choice by other women "oh, she's easy.. she's a slut, she's a wh0re".. so we then get to the urge for guys and girls, to both be "difficult"..

- The female, will be difficult via "resisting", while a male is difficult via "persisting".. They can both be equally as difficult, but what has taken people of 12,000 years ago to today? The amygdala.. and in short, emotions that slowly break down resistance, and allow the female to yield to persisting.. not too long ago, (just 4,000 years ago) the words "love, sex, and rape" ment the same thing.. that's right.. we were still transitioning from primative behavior to civilized behavior, but those primal urges never went away..

- That "high value b*tch".. may have her act up for the rest of the world to see.. but she's not fooling herself, she's not buying into her own crap.. She knows that she's artificially overinflated her value, and her insecurities are constantly eating her up inside.. But this won't stop her from trying to deny that reality.. she'll continue to resist.. and act "high value" via playing it "hard to get" & coy, something that in the 21st century, no longer implies high-value, but again, it's a media-driven ego-device.. And she will hiss at men trying to persist.. But there's a beautiful relationship among all of this.. she enjoys the feeling of being chased, being coy, temporarily enjoying that reality until it's taken away, until her resistance is no match for the man's persisting masculine nature that dominates, makes her feel safe, secure, protected, and allows her to yield and let go.. give in.. to those primal urges.. (but to admit this, is to admit that her "reality" is a fake, which she can't do.. that would blow up her act, both to the rest of the world, and to her)

- So, don't be the least put-off by so-called "high value" women.. because "high value" has little to do with looks, and nothing at all to do with being "b*tchy, snobby, cold, coy, acting hard-to-get".. Most of these girls, after they cut the act, are really sweet, nice, and some are great people.. But by in large, girls who don't put up the "high-value" act (I know this is going to sound cliche') are indeed usually the ones with the highest value, and truly amazing/magnetic people..

Now, if you don't want to bother, and just want your ex-gf back for some personal reason, let's know what the situation is exactly, how things were, how they ended, etc.. and we'll see what we should do..

Yeah **** bothering. Also I'm not really digging the bar vibe: fake blondes, fake tans, strappy shoes, etc. I like em less flourescent. Also I'm beginning to discover my personal shit-shooting style is a little too Dadaist for most broads.

Well we ended off on pretty lame terms; she broke it off the day I left for winter break. Damn it's been a while. Things weren't perfect between us mainly because
(A) She has been psychologically conditioned to see her character as simply an infallible extension of her baby doll face and
(B) The bizaare, masochistic lovehate we seemed to exchange on a daily basis.

But things weren't horrible really. Oh yeah did I mention I'm her first boyfriend and I - um, - I ****ed her first? So I guess I'm in that role... I'm just not sure of her impression of me at this point. Perhaps this crude paragraph will enlighten me. I suppose I did tell her that "No, I don't 'don't you just want to be friends' ", in fact "I think we should just avoid that whole 'hanging out thing' until we agree that what works best for us is to only speak post-orgasmically." In fact I was probably less pithy at the time but I effectively said the same thing.

But she's come back to me before. She sees me very often as we attend the same university. (Previous sentence was revised to sound more academic.) So she can't forget about me that easy, eh? Eh?

One more thing. I have held up no contact to a score of
Me: -1 (saw her on the street... no message)
Her: -4 ("merry christmas!" "happy new year!" "how was your first day?" "-no message-")

This message will self-destruct along with my GPA.

EDIT: So this is my 13,ooo post. Can I get an Omen!?

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Originally Posted by bohemiandonut [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Okay GrkScorp, I decided I don't have time for this dating bullshit and I just want my mean ex-girlfriend back. Besides altering my cognitive frame so that I in actuality do NOT want her back, or publically dating a bunch of high value sluts, what can I do to get the bitch back?

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you'll have to try to not be such a bitch.

Why is this such a struggle for you, Donut Boy? Is there something wrong with wanting a girlfriend? I don't remember her as being mean. Perhaps you omitted some evidence back then.

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Originally Posted by bohemiandonut [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Well we ended off on pretty lame terms; she broke it off the day I left for winter break. Damn it's been a while. Things weren't perfect between us mainly because
(A) She has been psychologically conditioned to see her character as simply an infallible extension of her baby doll face and
(B) The bizaare, masochistic lovehate we seemed to exchange on a daily basis.

But she's come back to me before. She sees me very often as we attend the same university. (Previous sentence was revised to sound more academic.) So she can't forget about me that easy, eh? Eh?

One more thing. I have held up no contact to a score of
Me: -1 (saw her on the street... no message)
Her: -4 ("merry christmas!" "happy new year!" "how was your first day?" "-no message-")

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With all of that in place.. I think you pumped up ego-princess after you de-virginized her.. and now she's walking around looking for someone more interesting and more of a challenge, because she got the feeling that "ok, he's not going anywhere, he adores me, I can make him do anything for me, boring".. (i'm not saying the feeling was accurate, just that she got that feeling)

Pretty face types, live in that kind of world..

- Disadvantages:

- You're single and not seeing other women, and she knows it (This works in your disfavor, not because you're single.. there's nothing wrong with that.. but for the fact that you're not seeing other women.. and if you want her back.. it makes her feel that "oh.. does he want me because i'm the only one he can get? ugh.. I don't think so.. not me.. I come at too high a price for someone desperate".. but start to be surrounded by HV sluts, and all of a sudden, if you see something in her.. it's because "he found something sOoOoOo special about me, and thinks i'm sOoOoOo special in relation to all those other girls.. ugh.. stupid sluts.." (yeah, I know)
- She broke things off with you
- You want her back more than she wants you back

- Advantages:

- You took away her virginity
- You're not maintaining contact

I think you know what you have to do.. Get surrounded by high-value sluts.. lol.. but i'm quite serious.. And this is why..

Right now, she feels.. I broke things off with him, anytime I want, I can have him back.. boring.. even worse is if you do anything that she can rationalize as "he's chasing me".. (trying to call, text, talk, e-mail, message even though she's not writing back)

So the problem exists in getting her attention (which she'll do a great job in pretending you're failing to get.. don't let the act throw you off).. that's what High Value Sluts are for.. dive in and surround yourself in them.. tell them strait-up.. "I think you're all really nice, but I just want all of you to know, I see you all as friends.. we're just friends.. ok? (they're going to say "ok")".. Let it be known.. or as the bad grammer of a classmate once mentioned:

Be it known that, BD be rollin' with da hottest HV sluts.. when guys need HV sluts, BD is where they turn to.. they're on to him like bees, and he's got the honey.. and any bee that's not onto him yet can see what's going on.. and she'll start flying his way..

Forget that she's your ex, delete that from memory.. gone.. "poof".. clear..., if you see her again.. she's "just a friend".. more likely the case, if you see one of her friends while she'll send to scout you.. express explicitly somewhere in the conversation "I don't know how she feels, but for me.. we're just friends".. either way.. she's going to get the urge to test you to see if you're interested in her or if she still has any control over you.. (if you are, if she does, you fail).. So, be beyond her control.. you have HV sluts, what on earth can she offer you now? You are socially "in-demand", who is she? Why are you still there talking to her? Tell her at that moment.. "look, I just want to tell you something.. and don't take this the wrong way (aka. "take this the wrong way") but me and you, we're just friends.. and I just want to be clear about that, ok?".. now continue to talk to her.. You've just subcomminicated that you have no interest in her, and she has no control over you.. make sure you have some event comming up.. "we're going out this weekend to ____" just let it hang.. it's not an invitation.. it's bait.. later on in the conversation.. try and notice if she tells you how she's doing NOTHING during the weekend, or how she's FREE this weekend.. or even lack of mentioning anything she's doing this weekend and trying to seem busy is enough of a green-light for you to say.. "Why don't you come with us this weekend? Unless you have anything better to do.." I love this sales-close.. It's a conscious mind over-load.. She's already thinking, "WHY don't I go? What are some reasons?" and she could easily pick some BS excuse and throw it your way.. but you've prevented that with "Unless you have anything BETTER to do".. no her parrot suffering from an existential crisis no longer qualifies as an excuse.. as she quickly searches for excuses in her mind, she realizes that none of her excuses really fit the bill.. even the "my aunt, my grandmother, I have a wedding to go to, etc" don't fit the bill.. but the clock is still ticking, split seconds, a second, second(S)! The feeling of awkwardness is creeping in.. she doesn't want to come off as dishonest, as a liar, as deliberately resisting and being coy.. so she agrees.. via.. "No, not really I guess.. lol".. then she may try to get out of it immediately with a "Call me and let me know... i'll think about it.. i'll let you know for sure on ___"... in which case, just smile to let her know that you know exactly what she's thinking, but you're keeping it to yourself to not make her feel like an idiot.. she'll want to recover from that feeling and prove you wrong.. she doesn't want to come off like a liar/hypocrite/dishonest person (not to you, but to HERSELF!, she doesn't want to FEEL that way).. but then you just walk away.. excuse yourself.. and end with "bye"..

- Never call
- Never chase

Until, she's clearly chasing.. You have to understand, when guys chase, it's personally humiliating, it's exhausting, and frustrating.. the more they do it.. the less attracted they get.. it kills attraction.. because guys are practical.. If he has to chase someone for 10 miles, but someone else for 2 miles.. even on the 6th mile, he's going to chase that 2mile girl.. practical.. that's male nature.. Thank you to the people who invented the remote, online-bill-paying, e-filing, etc.. practical..

Not female nature.. get her in the mode of chasing, seriously.. and there's an intoxicating rush she gets.. it's a surge of emotions.. hate towards you, unpredictability, mystery, hope, infatuation, love, lust, etc.. and the more she's taking this joy-ride.. the more attracted she becomes.. That's because, when she's currently chasing, it's impossible for her to rationalize "no, I don't like him".. that makes no sense.. SHE'S CHASING! Therefore, if it's not the case that "no, I don't like him".. she may not want to admit it to herself.. which only adds to the feelings and emotions.. but it's then the case that "yes, I DO like him".. and when you feel that she's started to cope with this reality, and accepted it.. that's when you can start rewarding with kisses and a relationship, and so on and so forth..

I have a ****ing back browser button right next to my left arrow key so this is the third time I'm writing this. Reader's digest version you know it.

Grk - Yes unfortunately you're right. After our first breakup, no contact worked and she started calling without leaving msgs. I told her to stop. One night she kept calling and I let a girl who was over (a roommate's friend who knew her was in town) answer my phone. Of course my ex immediately hung up and turned off her phone. Although I had the girl leave her a message explaining why she answered, it was clear what had happened. The jealousy and thus attraction barrier had been crossed. She no longer had a "choice." I went over later that night and she literally melted in my arms. It was perfect.

But it didn't last. I gave in too soon, just as attraction was building. I started showing up at her house too much and soon we were back to no contact... Which worked again, we got back together, split up again, and here I am.

Last time I had facebook going for me with all kinds of messages from babes that left her virtually insane with curiosity and jealousy. But I deleted that so now what does she have to go on... seeing me in some bar? I doubt it. I've just been trying to dress real nice whenever I'm out. Will that do it?

Giga - Are you serious? All I do is talk about how mean this girl is... I guess you could just call it self-centered? It's just the sort of imbalance that leaves one feeling used and angry.

FOR EXAMPLE:
I'm in my house, studying during the day so I can't really spend time with here, this is when she lived on my block. From my room I can hear her roommate asking my roommate if he wants to go get sushi. Can you see what's coming? Over the next 15 minutes I wait but get no invitation to dinner. I see my roommate leaving the house and my girlfriend waiting outside with all her roommates. I stand by my porch and look quizically at her. She just looks at me.
Eventually it clicks for her: "...Oh do you want to go get sushi?" - "Were you going to ask me?"
- "Oh I don't know"
- ::look sternly at her:: "Meet in the backyard..." (bitch)"

In the backyard I proceeded to ask her whether she was trying to be a bitch. I told her that she was doing to me what someone does to someone they are TRYING to make feel like shit. Obviously I would see her leave her house ACROSS the street and go to dinner with my roommate. She even said "I don't know maybe I wanted to go to dinner just with (people)" At that point I gave her a middle finger and went inside. Goddamn right she didn't go to dinner and went in her room to cry. Good.

That's merely an example of what to me is either unforgivably thoughtless or just plain mean behavior. She sure is nice when she's on the rag though. The problem is I am in love with EVERYTHING ELSE about her. Does that make sense? She is simply too pretty for me to get over. I just want to see her small face against my chest again, and feel her tiny teeth against my bicep, and kiss her bedtime poppy blossom eyes until



until I'm really in love.

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Originally Posted by bohemiandonut [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

FOR EXAMPLE:
I'm in my house, studying during the day so I can't really spend time with here, this is when she lived on my block. From my room I can hear her roommate asking my roommate if he wants to go get sushi. Can you see what's coming? Over the next 15 minutes I wait but get no invitation to dinner. I see my roommate leaving the house and my girlfriend waiting outside with all her roommates. I stand by my porch and look quizically at her. She just looks at me.
Eventually it clicks for her: "...Oh do you want to go get sushi?" - "Were you going to ask me?"
- "Oh I don't know"
- ::look sternly at her:: "Meet in the backyard..." (bitch)"

In the backyard I proceeded to ask her whether she was trying to be a bitch. I told her that she was doing to me what someone does to someone they are TRYING to make feel like shit. Obviously I would see her leave her house ACROSS the street and go to dinner with my roommate. She even said "I don't know maybe I wanted to go to dinner just with (people)" At that point I gave her a middle finger and went inside. Goddamn right she didn't go to dinner and went in her room to cry. Good.

That's merely an example of what to me is either unforgivably thoughtless or just plain mean behavior. She sure is nice when she's on the rag though. The problem is I am in love with EVERYTHING ELSE about her. Does that make sense? She is simply too pretty for me to get over. I just want to see her small face against my chest again, and feel her tiny teeth against my bicep, and kiss her bedtime poppy blossom eyes until



until I'm really in love.

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BD, if that is the best example you have as to her general bitchyness, I'd have to say YOU have the problem.

You overheard a conversation about dinner & you WAITED for her to invite you? WTF? If you wanted to go, why didn't you just say you overheard about dinner & say you wanted to go. Testing her, were you?

I'm not saying it isn't messed up to ask your roomate to dinner w/o asking you (this is another guy, yes?) but I doubt the context is what you say it was. Were you arguing with her, perchance, before this exchange happened?

If yes, she probably just thought you wanted to be left alone. If no, then ya I'd have to say that was pretty cold on her part.

Never attribute to malice that which is more easily explained by stupidity (or fear).

Whether it was Malice, Stupidity, OR Fear it's still something that I would never have done to her.

BD,

You're in fcukn' San Diego, California.. home to more beautiful women than any other city in the whole United States..

1. San Diego, CA
2. New York, NY
3. Los Angeles, CA
4. Miami, FL
5. San Antonio, TX

Seriously.. please, rationalize this to me.. becaues I think I may be missing some element(s) of your story..

If all you're attracted to, was her pretty baby-face.. then why can't you just go out and find some other pretty baby-face?

Was there something more about her? Besides her face, and the time you spend with eachother?

Haha alright fine I give up I guess I'm just lazy.

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Originally Posted by bohemiandonut [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Haha alright fine I give up I guess I'm just lazy.

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A little.. that..., and that you're still comming down from thinking about her as the only woman on the planet.. (one-itis)

It'll mess with your thinking.. so give it some time until you're FULLY over her before you go out and start dating again..

PS. Ugh.. San Diego.. not fair man, not fair.. :(

I absolutely love the whole summer look, with flip flops, tanned skin, the works.. something so warm and sensual about it..

Hanging in the balance. I feel so ****ing weird today. I hate everything and at the same time I love everything. What the hell is that? I don't get it.

GrkScorp, thanks man. For all the help in this thread. For devoting the time to help people here like that with your opinions. Who knew it would be this long?

This girl confuses me, she keeps trying to hit on me when she is next to me but when this other guy leaves she goes chasing after him like a bat out of hell leaving me behind. What the hell.

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Originally Posted by GrkScorp [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I absolutely love the whole summer look, with flip flops, tanned skin, the works.. something so warm and sensual about it..

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Easy access?

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Originally Posted by Only-virgins [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

This girl confuses me, she keeps trying to hit on me when she is next to me but when this other guy leaves she goes chasing after him like a bat out of hell leaving me behind. What the hell.

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Hmm.. I don't really have enough information to work with, but here are the two most likely cases..., btw, no problem OV, there's no need to say thanks, the only thanks I need is to know that you're having the success you want, with the girls you want;

Best case: (intentional)

- I think we both know, that you're at the point now, where this doesn't really need much detail.. If her action is intentional, then it's largely not genuine, it's fake, it's an act she's putting up.. just to get a reaction from you.. remember, what women look for.. is a reaction.. and not just one.. many.. they just want reaction.. and the most classic way to get it, is through jealousy plot-lines.. hence, (intentional)

Now, I know.. doesn't work.. but they'll never learn.. it's a girly urge that's simply too hard to resist.. but if this is the case, that means good news for you.. If she's taking the time and effort to intentionally create a jealousy plot-line, take a moment and think about what that tells you about her motives.. Why would she do that? That's right.. because she likes you.. and wants to get a reaction out of you..

Other case: (unintentional)

- OV, you're a really great guy, intelligent, you think rationally and logically, which is good for the sciences, but not so useful with girls.. I have a russian and two asian friends who are also in the sciences.. The biggest downfall they take, is "pulling away", or.. "take-aways"

In short.. yes, you demonstrate some quality of yours.. some value that you can add to the interaction.. The mistake all three of them do is that they TRY very hard to demonstrate it.. and directly to the girl they like.. Like giving a cat the ball of string to play with.. that's boring.. the cat won't play with it.. The other mistake they do.. is failing to pull away or take away that value.. They're having a great time.. and then, instead of leaving on the high-note, just when the kitty was playing with the string and having fun.. instead of taking that source of fun away.. on that high-note.. they stay there.. until that fun dims away.. almost completely.. and now the interaction is boring.. and the cat is bored.. and wants to leave..

Keep all that in mind as you watch the following video..

Also make note, that such a basic animal, is so natural at acting disinterested, even when it wants the string badly.. and what effort it makes to get that string when it's teased with it, and it's then taken away..

[ame="http://youtube.com/watch?v=YURujk8I2aw"]YouTube - Cat String Theory Demonstrated[/ame]

What could be happening.. is that when she's around you, more importantly.. around the two of you (you and the other guy).. she's having a great time.. and is in a highly excited emotional state.. (let's just call it HBT for now).. and the first one to "take that away from her".. is the other guy, not you.. When he leaves, he's implicitly taking away that value (of you AND him there, TOGETHER, with her).. HE is then pulling away that dynamic, and breaking it apart.. not you.. so when she's left to emotionally rationalize this through FEELINGS, it feels that things are now less fun when HE is gone.. So when HE leaves, SHE is having less fun..

This type of conditioning, be it intentional or unintentional on the other guy's part.. trains her to chase after him, because she's emotionally rationalized him to be the source of fun, and when he takes that away (himself that is), she can feel herself having less fun..

If indeed unintentional on her part; then:

- When she's in HBT, take-away.. that's right.. just go.. and exit with a subtle but powerful message, "sorry I have to go.. sorry I can't stay longer.. blah blah.. BYE".. it's as if you're subcommunicating that she's at some loss, and you're saying sorry for creating that loss.. and at the same time, you're saying BYE, which people are conditioned to get the feeling of a permanent goodbye, rather than a temporary one..

In effect, you're conditioning her to feel that YOU are the source of fun and this HBT-feeling that she loves being in.. she won't only be more responsive to you during an interaction, but you're actually conditioning her to chase the source of that HBT-emotional state (you).. and feel that state and feeling go away as you go away..

I know, this makes no sense from the standpoint of a guy.. believe me.. I know.. but try and remember that guys and girls are different.. here is one such difference.. for dogs, that go under the honor system.. this is rude, and dishonerable.. but for cats.. it's emotionally stimulating and fun..

When girls chase, and the more they chase, the more emotionally invested and connected they feel.. which is why they try and resist chasing as much as they can.. but that's the object of the game.. to get them to chase.. because notice in how deep of a trance this girl you're talking about is, when this guy gets up and walks away.. She's not thinking.. not with logic anyway.. her emotions and feelings are dictating her actions.. there is no logic, not with chasing.. and the more she chases, the more attracted and emotional she feels towards the person she's chasing.. also, the more invested she feels, because she's spent time, effort, and energy (sometimes money too) in chasing this guy..

Look around the forum.. to all the girls posting "there's this guy I like.. blah blah.. but he's not doing/saying this back.. and i've tried to do/say ____.. and yesterday/last week I did this.. and I keep trying, do you think he likes me?".. It's a very enjoyable ride.. the thrill of all those emotions, fear of loss, hope, excitement, validation, doubt, uncertainty, unpredictability, etc.. For a girl, this is like crack mixed with viagra and spanish fly.. once you're on this ride, it's very hard to get off..

So, it's definitely something to make note of OV, and try and condition girls from now on to responding to YOU as the source of that highly aroused/intoxicated/excited emotional state.. and it's definitely not too late to do that with this girl.. just start taking away and pulling away (naturally and as unintentionally as possible) before the other guy does.. and just keep being your regular, fun, normal, self..

Best,

GrkScorp

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Originally Posted by GrkScorp [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I know, this makes no sense from the standpoint of a guy.. believe me.. I know.. but try and remember that guys and girls are different.. here is one such difference.. for dogs, that go under the honor system.. this is rude, and dishonerable.. but for cats.. it's emotionally stimulating and fun..

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Interesting analogy Scorp

Passingly I've noticed this as well. Some women have canine resembling personalities (loyalty, trust, principals) and some feline (fun, loving, stimulation seeking, changing with the wind).

I think realization I'm slowly coming to is that I'm a canine person.

so, you like bitches?

lol jk.

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Originally Posted by misombra [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

so, you like bitches?

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I love b*tches.. it's just that very few women know what it means to be a b*tch, or how to be a b*tch, and GENUINELY come off that way, not like it's some put-on act..

(please, ladies, this is just personal preferences, not all guys like b*tches, don't run off being a b*tch.. a lot of guys also like honest, loyal, down-to-earth, non-catty, nice, sweet, non-catty girls.. and i'm also one of those guys, I just prefer b*tchy, wild, untamed, over composed, quiet, nice)

Feline qualities = One Night Stand

Canine qualities = Relationship

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Originally Posted by Mishanya [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Feline qualities = One Night Stand

Canine qualities = Relationship

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LOL..

That borders a little towards misogyny..

The issue of one-night-stands, isn't something that's exclusive to one or the other.. both cats and dogs would love to endulge in one-night-stands

It's just that dogs follow the honor system.. there's a set of rules, and it's understood that these rules are to be honored and followed, and there's never a justified departure from these rules; to depart from these fair, just, and agreed upon rules is to be unfair, dirty, cheap, dishonorable; and hence, deserving of hate, anger, punishment, judgement, justice to restore the balance of what's fair and honorable

It's the way of the warrior, of organized debate, of formal arguments, and every other aspect of life, including dating and relationships

That's why.. even guys will find it dirty, cheap, dishonorable when they hear of other guys "manipulating, lying" to a girl about promises of love & exclusive-relationship-status in order to obtain sex via a one-night-stand.. because it's a violation of the rules, of what is fair, of what's honorable..

But that's also why guys will find the issue of "who pays" filled with much room for debate, because it seems to violate and trample over what is just, fair, and honorable.. It's as if it implies that the guy has no value, and the girl has so much value to offer, that he has pay for her to be there, constantly, day after day, date after date, and that this is the expectation.. when in reality, it's usually him that's giving up some better alternative to be there, it's usually him that's more fun, interesting, and emotionally stimulating, so it's not logical or balanced that he has to "pay" to maintain this interaction; and on top of that, continue to pay, and be expected to continue to pay to maintain the interaction, without the girl ever offering (genuinely, not fake-reach offering) to pay equally, a system only the Dutch take part in..

And, ok, under the honor system, there's room for understanding.. and mutual agreement to achieve an overall balance.. So, ok.. this is why guys cope and overlook the "paying" issue.. because they understand that for the other person, they need to feel the sense of feeling special and the only woman in the world, and so valuable and worthy of him paying for her.. like she's worth it.. and in the overall picture of things, there's the expectation that on her end, she'll balance this out (but as you guys know by now, when you're the only one playing by the honor system, you're the only one bleeding ego, time, effort, and money, and the only one not getting anything.. but at least you feel like a gentleman and a good nice boy)

This is why, under the honor system.. if the guy has to approach, walk through the social pressure and the room, break the ice, start and open up the conversation.. then it's almost a given, it's the norm, it's the expectation, that in order to balance, the girl must offer and give her number without being asked, because there's already been too much of an ego-risk taken by your part, and at this point, there's not even an ego-risk anywhere near that which you took on her part, so the least she can do is balance under the honor system, (which, very few women do, because they don't play under the honor system)

Under the cat system, you start to feel a massive departure from the honor system.. You can think of the honor system like the code of the Samurai, and the cat system like the code of the rogue Ninja, where there are no rules.. anything goes, and you get terms like "it doesn't count".. There are no reservations felt about bending the rules, because the only rules that exist are those of "self-interest, personal fun, and survival".. The ninja will do what it has to, to survive or have as much fun and pleasure for itself as possible, backstab you, throw blinding powder in your face, use poisons, deception, misdirection, lies, tricks, cheap-shots, and anything else that the Samurai would consider dishonorable, because in the world of the Ninja and cats, there's no such thing as honor, just self-interest..

You can see, how the Ninja would have such a powerful advantage over the Samurai; fighting dishonorably, while the Samurai stuck strong to the honor system.. In the feudal world, the Samurai would be killed, losing his life.. in the dating world, the guy would lose his ego, time, effort, money, heart, feelings, emotions, dignity, esteem, sense of self-worth/value, etc..

But that's until someone realized how to strike a fair and honorable advantage over the Ninja and cats alike.. their weakness, their code, the driving force behind their actions.. the only motives they have.. their feelings and emotions.. their "self-interest".. Some ninjas wanted "value", others wanted a sense of "trust, protection, security, feeling safe, comfort".. while others wanted "emotional stimulation, connection, chemistry, powerful attraction".. All of these played on the cat's self-interest, and when teased with what they were interested in.. they put in effort to get it.. to chase it.. and when feeling fear of loss of that, and a sense of jealousy as if someone else would have it.. they fell into a mode of chasing after the object of their self-interest.. In terms of Samuari and Ninjas in the dating world, this realization of the cat-system, leveled the playing field.. Some guys (former samurai) turned to the dark-side and were consumed by this realization, using this new power and advantage to completely manipulate, and attain their own self-interest with total disreguard for what was honorable.. But guys who understood the cat-system, only used it to level the playing-field.. to bring them towards the honor system, and play fair.. to attain a balance, a just and fair one..

When they did this, they realized, among other things, that Ninjas were not all that.. really.. guys were more fun, more interesting, more funny, usually more successful and financially healthy, less b*tchy, less needy, less issues and problems, and the list went on.. the guys started to quickly feel that, the only thing these cats had to offer, was sex.. And so, some went through a phase where all they looked for was just that.. and so one-night-stands became the only goal.. to have as many of them as one could.. for others.. Sex was overlooked.. denied, they refused to accept that this was the only thing that could be offered.. and embarked on a journey to find something more.. And slowly, they found it.. what they were overlooking all along.. real, genuine, deep, powerful, emotional connection.. synergy.. a feeling that two people were working as one super-human being, combining their energy to form this ultimate force that could conquer and withstand all.. perfect compliments..

So, in the field, you're a Samurai, who knows how to deal with ninjas.. who knows all their tricks.. and how to avoid them, evade them, deflect them, and reflect them back if you have to.. You know how to take away their advantage, and play on your advantage over them.. their nature, "self-interest".. and as you do just that.. as they chase.. you allow for the chance for a genuine and real connection to grow between the two of you.. so much so, that between the two of you, you're BOTH under the honor system.. but to everyone else, to the rest of the world, you're both under the cat-system, looking out for your own self-interest, because you're now one.. Where there's a fluid exchange of affection, sex, love, passion, emotions, support, etc.. between the two of you.. but towards the rest of the world, there's only self interest, to benefit you alone, as a couple or family unit..

Wow, still alive lol.

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Originally Posted by GrkScorp [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

LOL..

That borders a little towards misogyny..

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Qe?

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Originally Posted by GrkScorp [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

When they did this, they realized, among other things, that Ninjas were not all that.. really.. guys were more fun, more interesting, more funny, usually more successful and financially healthy, less b*tchy, less needy, less issues and problems, and the list went on.. the guys started to quickly feel that, the only thing these cats had to offer, was sex.. And so, some went through a phase where all they looked for was just that.. and so one-night-stands became the only goal.. to have as many of them as one could.. for others.. Sex was overlooked.. denied, they refused to accept that this was the only thing that could be offered.. and embarked on a journey to find something more.. And slowly, they found it.. what they were overlooking all along.. real, genuine, deep, powerful, emotional connection.. synergy.. a feeling that two people were working as one super-human being, combining their energy to form this ultimate force that could conquer and withstand all.. perfect compliments..

So, in the field, you're a Samurai, who knows how to deal with ninjas.. who knows all their tricks.. and how to avoid them, evade them, deflect them, and reflect them back if you have to.. You know how to take away their advantage, and play on your advantage over them.. their nature, "self-interest".. and as you do just that.. as they chase.. you allow for the chance for a genuine and real connection to grow between the two of you.. so much so, that between the two of you, you're BOTH under the honor system.. but to everyone else, to the rest of the world, you're both under the cat-system, looking out for your own self-interest, because you're now one.. Where there's a fluid exchange of affection, sex, love, passion, emotions, support, etc.. between the two of you.. but towards the rest of the world, there's only self interest, to benefit you alone, as a couple or family unit..

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That's another interesting analogy Scorp, Samurai vs Ninja, very creative :)

So, to bring this into a more physical world (instead of abtract) to give a sense of what I mean when I refer to canine vs feline personality traits, I will give a few examples:

Canine: Women who are generous, loyal, trustworthy. They dedicate themselves in help of others. Their idea of fun is when everyone has a good time, when everyone benefits. They communicate interdependence and synergy they look out for everyones interest. Those eyes when they look at you they speak of instant trust, you have no reason to doubt, question or judge them. These women ussually avoid clubs and other places of instant gratification and stimulation. Instead they dedicate themselves to a cause.

Feline: Women who are emotional, stimulation seeking, sensual and fun loving, but also looking out for self interest over the interests of others. Their idea of fun is when they have a good time, and their good time rubs off on select others. They seek value greater than theirs but only to absorb it and move on to the next point of stimulation. When you look into those eyes you see that you need to maitain their interest, their affection is very conditional. These women can be found all over clubs, pubs, parties and other places with high stimulation potential.

So given opportunity to play with a cat would I take it? Of course. I will play around with a piece of string just to watch the excitement and the enthusiasm that such an activity generates (until I get bored with it). Would I want to be with someone who is distracted and stimulated so easily and whose degree of trust is so questionable and conditional? I don't think so. For long term relationship I will be looking for someone whose value is long lasting and is built on solid principals which I find trustworthy.

That's pretty much what I meant by those two simple lines of text :)

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Originally Posted by Mishanya [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

That's pretty much what I meant by those two simple lines of text :)

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Oh Mish,

Yes, you have a very canine quality, and that's good, because most guys aren't looking after a relationship, most guys don't really know what they're looking for.. some guys are just looking for a number, others to kiss, others to just talk to someone, others for sex, others for a date later on in time, etc..

So in that aspect, these guys have their self-interest in mind, they're looking (from a guy's POV) for a one-night-stand, pump-&-dump type of deal..

As for the analogy, it's nothing new, i've been saying this for years.. and when i'm with a woman.. I like to think of it like me being the Samurai, taking on the heavy burdens that fly our way with sheer power and strength, aggressive and direct force.. while my little cleaver ninja handles all these subtleties with indirect force.. as a couple, you (as one entity) act in total self-interest for yourselves.. but within that entity, the two of you follow the honor system, (besides the fact that she's a cat).. there's been a mutual conversion of sorts.. now, if there's no honor system within the relationship, between those two people.. then fcuk it.. the relationship is basically a relationsh*t.. it's over..

LOL.

You guys are using too many words to explain a basically simple idea. Just make a chi square for the interactions. Then Grk can fill in the boxes for what to expect:


FEMALE:
Feline personality OR Canine personality
MALE:
Tomcat personality OR Alpha/pack leader personality

Possible combinations:

#1 Tom w/feline #2 Tom w/canine

#3 Alpha w/feline #4 Alpha/canine


And there you have it. Except for some minor crossover, all of human dating interactions explained in a simple plot.

Now all you need to do is learn to identify which type you are, which type your partner is & what to expect in each case. This would make a cute little book, actually.

And Grk, the reason you prefer feline/bitches is b/c you wouldn't have anyone to apply your pop-psych to otherwise. :D

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Originally Posted by bohemiandonut [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

...From my room I can hear her roommate asking my roommate if he wants to go get sushi. Can you see what's coming? Over the next 15 minutes I wait but get no invitation to dinner...

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Oh, for ****'s sake. I thought you were the boy in that relationship. You're just too damned sensitive for your own good. SHe's probably never in her life met a guy who actually HAD feelings before, let alone been held responsible for them.

Look, bodo, when you get a virgin you have certain responsibilities. Some of them involve being sexually responsible about contraception and stuff like that, but other responsibilities include teaching them some of the basics of relationship dynamics. It sounds to me like you were expecting her to act like a pro when she's really just an amateur.

You spent a huge amount of time and energy being pissed off at her all the time. Why? It's like being angry with a baby for having bad table manners. Jeeze.

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Originally Posted by IndiReloaded [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

And Grk, the reason you prefer feline/bitches is b/c you wouldn't have anyone to apply your pop-psych to otherwise. :D

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I really did like the rest of the post, although I don't like to think of things so clear-cut and almost digital.. When you're with people.. everyone is like a gradient, a transition, things are more smooth and continuous.. And this is going to perhaps be the nerdiest thing i'll ever say, but if you want to explain a social interaction from beginning to end, take calculus and linear algebra, seriously..

I believe back in Calc I was where you just learn about derivatives and very basic intergration.. I might be wrong, it's been a while.. But you can think of the importance of derivatives to track down the position of the interaction, then gauge and assess the speed of the interaction, and go a little beyond that, (that second step is important) and try and match its acceleration.. Think of it like NASA, trying to land a shuttle onto a space station.. it's not enough to match the position and speed, but the actual acceleration must match aswell..

For most guys, the position alone is usually some unknown variable.. lol.. but for women, they're usually aware of all three, and at the very least, just the first two..

For instant rapport, just come into a group and match all three.. and then after you have a firm sense of comfort, trust, and safety in place.. you increase the acceleration (not position), which in turn will work to increase the speed, which in turn will increase or move the position of the interaction to a different phase.. And as you do this.. there's a new level of comfort and trust established at this new position, speed, and acceleration.., which you know what that means! Time to yet again increase the acceleration and start the cycle all over again.. until you get to the position you want to be in (no pun intended, seriously)

You can analyze this to no end.. social interactions are beautiful.. there's almost an art and science to them.. and more than the outcome, I just get so caught up in the process, but it's all stuff that's going on behind the scenes..

But the chi-square model you suggest is workable, because for the sake of keeping things simple, it works..

Now, the reason I love b*tches, is for no other reason than for the fact that I like to tame them, and do guys a favor in doing so.. It drives me wild inside to see a woman with her life so fcuked-up and out of control, and all over the place, and constantly flaking on others, and herself! etc.. And I just have this strong urge to just jump in, make her mine for a while, and get her life together, then send her on her way, back out into the world.. It's the trill of fixing them.. And I know you're probably going to hit me back with.. (there's no fixing a b*tch).. but, yes..., there is.. and i'm very happy I do, not just for other guys, but for HER.. I like to see her life go back into place, and be more stable and secure.. I like to see her more grounded with the rest of the world.. I like to see her stop thinking with emotions, and start thinking with some logic.. and you'd be shocked, that most of these girls who are b*tches, are actually very beautiful people.. sure, they have some random mood-swings.. but aside from that, they're usually smarter than they look, deeper than they look, and have hidden aspects to their character/personality which they don't even know about yet because they've convinced themselves that "looks" is all they have going for them, and they've been surrounded by idiot guys who have done nothing more but to add to that thinking and reaffirm it constantly instead of showing her otherwise..

Don't get me wrong, i'm not the guy who goes after b*tchy women.. if one happens to come my way, then it's simply her lucky day.. But i'm more attracted to Eva Green types.. women who are mature, grounded, have a strong feminine side, but at the same time, are in contact with their masculine side, it's a whole mix of things.. but she's my standard in women, and I have a bad habit of molding b*tchy women towards that.. something I know will stop one day when I get tired of putting in the effort to mold them, and just give up on b*tchy women alltogether.. and look for that natural, raw, woman..

LOL.

Ppl as particles. There's actually a growing interest in a field called 'social physics', fyi. Perhaps you should apply to the program.

[url]http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/print/18278[/url]

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Originally Posted by GrkScorp [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Now, the reason I love b*tches, is for no other reason than for the fact that I like to tame them, and do guys a favor in doing so.. It drives me wild inside to see a woman with her life so fcuked-up and out of control, and all over the place, and constantly flaking on others, and herself! etc.. And I just have this strong urge to just jump in, make her mine for a while, and get her life together, then send her on her way, back out into the world.. It's the trill of fixing them...

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I don't know Scorp, you're not a psychiatrist. You have to becareful not to imagine that you do more for these women than you actually do.

Though, every bit of help helps I guess.

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Originally Posted by GrkScorp [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

And I know you're probably going to hit me back with.. (there's no fixing a b*tch)....

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No, honey, there isn't. The "bitch" you've described is just a damaged female. I'm thinking it's possible you've never met a real bitch. They're actually pretty rare. I think if you'd been in close contact with a deep-down bitch, you'd be a lot more bitter than you are.

My "biting retard ex", Giga I told you about was such I think. I think she was BPD. You can't change them, they change you.

You can imagine how much fun her and I had :D

I think you left a part of yourself with her.

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Originally Posted by Mishanya [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I think she was BPD. You can't change them, they change you.

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That made me sad for you, Mish, even tho I know you're an optimist. :(

I'll have to buy you a beer when I'm in Sydney to cheer you up.

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Originally Posted by IndiReloaded [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

That made me sad for you, Mish, even tho I know you're an optimist. :(

I'll have to buy you a beer when I'm in Sydney to cheer you up.

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Thanks Indi, it's a date ;)

I will bring her photo so we can throw darts at it in the local pub :)

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Originally Posted by Gigabitch [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I think you left a part of yourself with her.

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aaaaahahaaahaaa. i get it.

that's funny lol.

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Originally Posted by Gigabitch [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I think you left a part of yourself with her.

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Actually I did. Many parts, she was covered in them :)

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Originally Posted by Gigabitch [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

No, honey, there isn't. The "bitch" you've described is just a damaged female. I'm thinking it's possible you've never met a real bitch. They're actually pretty rare. I think if you'd been in close contact with a deep-down bitch, you'd be a lot more bitter than you are.

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A b*tch, is a damaged female.. that's all there is.. the rest is just face-value

The urge to play on male insecurities and put down guys and seek their attention and validation only to blow them off, the urge to just use guys because they're bored and because they can to do stuff for them or to get them things, the urge to create social drama because they're bored and want to feel involved and special now that they're not the center of attention, the urge to fake pregnancy or abuse guys in any other way, etc.. that's all face-value.. :astonish:

Behind that urge, there's a reason.. and that reason is that exact damaged nature.. although, not always damaged, it's also sometimes just undiscovered, you get a lot of girls who've just given up hope and faith in their own selves!

And, what's more sad than that, is that many of them develop a strong hate towards men, and even towards other women.. and it's because nobody can communicate to them.. nobody can get in touch with them.. but the whole "b*tch" thing, in my eyes, is just a cry out for help..

But all it takes, is just a strong desire to help them, the right way.. to understand them and connect with them, to feel how they're feeling, and to let them discover themselves, genuinely, through your eyes.. It's takes a little bit of effort, because in the beginning, they're in man-hate mode, manipulate-mold-toy-with-him mode, or pick on his insecurities for fun because i'm bored mode.. That's fine, all it takes to get past that is to be able to tolerate it.. and to tolerate it the right way, pure-resistance, and letting her know that this sh*t isn't working, letting her know that she doesn't have that control over you, but you're still there, because you care, not because of her guilt/drama/b*tch games, not because of the sex, and not because you owe it to her or feel sorry for her in any way.. but because you feel for her, understand her, connect with her, and want to help her.. you see that side of her to which she herself isn't aware of yet, and you're not stopping until she sees that side of her..

Be it the wife in her mid-30's who's married to a urologist that tells her he's sleeping with other women, and who feels unable and unworthy of pleasing him or making him happy, not valuable in life what-so-ever because she's not doing anything productive, and just wants other men to get revenge on her husband in her mind.. Be it the single-child sheltered-princess who's addicted to attention like crack, who still wants to push the limits of how far her looks can take her, test to see to what extremes she can get guys to jump hoops for her, try and see how far she can push people just because she can and because she's bored and it's fun.. or be it the girl who's been constantly abused by guys for far too long and is now just plain vengeful that nobody has ever appreciated her or validated her for who she really is and given her a sense of self-worth; but has to constantly take orders in a subserviant work position, being under-respected, and under-paid, tired of being everyone else's push-over, and wanting to let the rest of the world know and feel her pain..

Damaged? Maybe.. but more the case that men have come in and out of their life, who just didn't bother to at least try and fix the cracks, who really could care less about them as a person, as an individual, and mistook their face-value crap as "her b*tch drama emotional PMS outbreaks"..

When you give these women, these seemingly hard-core b*tches, creatures from the depths of hell itself; the time and effort they need.. they DO change, for the better.. and the change isn't something temporary either, because it's the change they want for themselves, but nobody is helping them realize that change, and they're just going about it the wrong way.. And when they do realize exactly who they are, that person & qualities of their genuine character and personality which they've been either supressing or has been left undiscovered for all this time, they love it.. you've just litterally changed their life.. for the better.. and they realize it, on their own.. :)

Now, i'm talking about emotionally stable b*tches who have the potential to change for the better.. emotionally unstable b*tches who will never change, are just not attractive.. let some poor b@stard deal with that, until she gets diagnosed with bi-polar or something and get's locked up somewhere.. :horror:

Now, it's risky business.. You definitely don't want to end up with someone who will lie about being on the pill and then have sex, or sabotage your condoms while you're sleeping and then have sex, or bring her personal drama into your work or other relationships, or destroy your stuff, or try to create legal/financial complications as a means of punishing you, etc.. You can tolerate some things, but there comes a point where someone crosses the line.. and I think thie is just the start of such a point.. :french:

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Originally Posted by Mishanya [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

My "biting retard ex", Giga I told you about was such I think. I think she was BPD. You can't change them, they change you.

You can imagine how much fun her and I had :D

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Wow, my uncle is just going through with a motion for divorce.. his wife has BPD.. one second she's breaking sh*t and doesn't want the kids to go to school and is calling the police telling them stories of him hitting her (not true).. the next, she's trying to hug him, kiss him, work things out..

Yeah.. BPD, is pretty much loss of sanity.. there's no talking to my now-soon-to-be former aunt.. you can feel the lack of communication and understanding on her part.. like she's in her own world..

Sorry you had to go through that Mish; really.. I can't begin to imagine what something like that would be like..

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Originally Posted by IndiReloaded [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

LOL.

Ppl as particles. There's actually a growing interest in a field called 'social physics', fyi. Perhaps you should apply to the program.

[url]http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/print/18278[/url]

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You know, if I was actually THAT serious about this, but i'm not, so i'm not even going to bother finishing that thought..

Yeah, I guess you could come up with elaborate economic and mathematical models; or as these people do, physics models to explain an interactions.. I mean, I had a phase where I wanted to predict reactions of people through the use of Game Theory.. but it's just not worth it, even if you develop a model to fully capture exactly how things work, it's just more practical and meaningful to see it and experience it for yourself out there with people rather than with functions on paper..

You can use some concepts though to make basic analogies.. but that should be the limit to which you use them..

I think it's very interesting, thanks again Indi for yet an other interesting link.. but I think i'd rather stick to Tax.. ;)

well 6 pages later and about 235 posts past the start.. i finally enter. but hell no, i'm not about to read all 200+ posts.

raverboy