Family Matters.

I'm sorry for posting another thread but I really need to vent on some things here so please bare with me guys.

I have never really had a good relationship with my dad. My parents got divorced a long time ago because my dad was such a scumbag. He had cheated on my mom several times, stole money from me as a child, sold fake property to several people, and was even arrested for....oh god, how emabarrassing..... Child pornography! He had used my mother's SS number and even claimed she was dead to get rights to her assets after they had been divorced. Anyways from as long as I can remember he has been a con artist. He was never there for me a child and it weighed a lot on my mind growing up.

I felt the normal feelings of rejection, abandonment, and all those stuoid feelings that come from having a dead beat dad. Over the years I have grown to understand that I love my father because he is my father , but I do not like him as a person, nor do I believe a word that comes out of his mouth. 6 years ago he was diagnosed with cancer (multiple myeloma) whihc is why I have tried to mend things with us for the sake of me knowing I did everything I could to HAVE a relationship with him.

Well recently, I found out that Friend of the court has been after him along with a bunch of creditors that he racked up through the years (and even gave my mother's address to, to say it wasn't him). Well now he's making up this story that he had an identity theft trojan horse hit his computer, and is trying to use that to get out of everything. He is planning on filing for bankruptcy to avoid paying child support and all the other things he has done himself.

I'm irritated in the fact that he may actually get away with this. How can this be? He has caused so much problems and aggravation not to mention humiliation to all that has known him and he may get away with it. This is just another reason why I hate our freakin government. He should pay for what he has done. I know he has no income and he can't work and that he is dying a slow painful death but, god damnit what about all the people he has hurt, do they just get to say "well what's done is done". This really bothers me a lot. I still talk/see him only because this is a battle of mine that has been ongoing since I was 12. But so help me god i will not let him ever influence MY daughter or My family like he has onto me. I hate even knowing I have a person related to me that would ever be like this.

Ok I'm going to stop now.. I'm sorry it was so long..I just really needed to vent and get some stuff off my mind! If you guys don't want to read all that above you don't have to.. ;)

I'm so sorry, RB. I can only imagine how tough that would be to have a father or any family member do all of those things.

I read it, RoseB... wow... I'm sorry your dad is such a scumbag.

I don't know much of anything about the government, court system, etc. so I don't know what to tell you about all that.. but... *hug for RoseB*

nah.. It's all good. I'm old enough to be able to accpet what type of person he is, but The more I come to terms with it, the more bullshit happens, and then I'm back at square one. I even sat down with him one night and emailed him like 3 differnet letters about all the things I felt and he turned it around on me saying I was at fault for not staying in contact with the family at one point. My ass, at the age of 13 I was the one calling him every weekend to say hi...grrrr ok I'm venting again..time to stop

It's ok to vent. I just hope you know in no way is it your fault.

You put that disclaimer about not reading the whole thing at the end?

Ok, now I feel bad about making fun of you. :(

Sounds to me like your father is a pathological loser; sorry, but he is. At this stage in his life (actually, it should have been before), he needs to Man-Up and take some accountability for his actions. I'm not sure how he can even live with his conscience, especially when staring down at deaths door.

Obviously, I dont know all what went on, but based on what you wrote, how he treated his wife and kid(s), you don't owe him anything; no need to mend fences. And as far as the Child Porn, obviously keep your daughter far away from him, but I'm sure you know this (even in your blondeness-sorry, couldn't resist :D )

I will forever stop making fun of you...

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Originally Posted by Lloyd95

I will forever stop making fun of you...

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No I won't; who am I kidding? :D

I can tell myself it's not my fault.... But I have this compelling, annoying, little thing in my head that keeps saying you haven't tried hard enough with him, but then the other part of me fights that all the time. I have been dealing with all this for several years, part of it was the reason I ended up in rehab at 19.

My mom told me that bankruptcy laws have changed and now they take your assets to pay off all your debts, and so he may not get away with a lot. But he told me in the past he wanted to make me his beneficary because he felt so bad for treating me the way he does, I said NO.. that would mean I would gain all of his debt as well. No thank you!

Baby steps, Rb. Like Jun said, it's not your fault in any way. All you can do is be the best you can be and lead by example. Don't worry, he'll get his punishment.

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Sounds to me like your father is a pathological loser; sorry, but he is. At this stage in his life (actually, it should have been before), he needs to Man-Up and take some accountability for his actions. I'm not sure how he can even live with his conscience, especially when staring down at deaths door.

Obviously, I dont know all what went on, but based on what you wrote, how he treated his wife and kid(s), you don't owe him anything; no need to mend fences. And as far as the Child Porn, obviously keep your daughter far away from him, but I'm sure you know this (even in your blondeness-sorry, couldn't resist :D )

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I put that at the end because I figured most people would just read the last remark.

I don't think he can live with himself. He has tried numerous times to apologize to me and even cried because of it all. He attempted to try and make it up by giving me things which in turn I rejected. but I do have a heart and when I think of him I cry. I wish I could have a father I am close with but I don't so I have to live with what has happened but too be honest the reason i try to mend is to be able to have a good memory to remind me of him. All I have are bad ones.. I just want one memory of a good time so i don't ahve all this on my shoulders for the rest of my life.

The child porn happened when I was 18 and they even listed in the stupid paper that the girl he had pictures of resmebled his own daughter. ugh, gross. He had never done anything like that to me and yes trust that my daughter is very far away from all of this. If anything were to ever happen to her I would physically KILL that person, no matter who they are!

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Originally Posted by Rosebud

I put that at the end because I figured most people would just read the last remark.

I don't think he can live with himself. He has tried numerous times to apologize to me and even cried because of it all. He attempted to try and make it up by giving me things which in turn I rejected. but I do have a heart and when I think of him I cry. I wish I could have a father I am close with but I don't so I have to live with what has happened but too be honest the reason i try to mend is to be able to have a good memory to remind me of him. All I have are bad ones.. I just want one memory of a good time so i don't ahve all this on my shoulders for the rest of my life.

The child porn happened when I was 18 and they even listed in the stupid paper that the girl he had pictures of resmebled his own daughter. ugh, gross. He had never done anything like that to me and yes trust that my daughter is very far away from all of this. If anything were to ever happen to her I would physically KILL that person, no matter who they are!

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His crying is a manipulation tactic. Don't fall for it.

Oh yeah..I know. I can spot that stuff a mile away.

I feel horrible for thinking this way, but part of me kinda wants him to go already so I don't have to keep fighting myself over all this. I know that's selfish of me to think that way, but I can't help but feel I will never overcome all this.

You shouldn't feel horrible for feeling that way. His death would probably be the best possible thing he could do for you. I hope he goes soon, too, and I don't feel the least bit bad about feeling that way.

Well he just found out he now has prostate cancer as well (I like to think that's for cheating..IMO) and his heart is slowign down quite a bit. He has two bi pass surgeries but it's not working because his arteries are so flimzy from chemo. He has stents in btu they keep having to remove them and clean them like every month. So to be honest, he doesn't have much longer at all.

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Originally Posted by Rosebud

I can tell myself it's not my fault.... But I have this compelling, annoying, little thing in my head that keeps saying you haven't tried hard enough with him, but then the other part of me fights that all the time. I have been dealing with all this for several years, part of it was the reason I ended up in rehab at 19.

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I think you should stop telling yourself that somehow he's behaviour is your fault and that by putting some extra effort in you can somehow change him or influence him in the right direction. That's way too much unneccesary guilt to put on yourself, guilt without any benefits what so ever.

Accept the fact that he is the way he is and there is nothing in the world you or anyone else can do for him to help him. He walks a lonely road that he choose all by himself. Don't think about what punishments he should have either. As you said, he is going to die a painful and a horrible death and this is the worst punishment anyone can ever have.

Just leave it at that. Sometimes it's good to adopt a point of view of an outsider looking in.

I'm sorry to hear about all this. Don't put too much pressure on yourself over it. You have enough pressure in your life as it is. ..And I think you may need someone to help you relief all of this stress for you ;)

OK I don't want you guys to think I'm blaming myself for my father being the way he is or for the fact I can't change him.

I have stated I accept who he is but I don't like it. The only battle I have is this: I have been the adult in our relationship since I can remember..I initiated phone calls, visits and so on because I never heard anything form him. I have always been the one to make the effort which has pushed me further and further into a hole because then I feel as though I'm nothing and not worth shit because my own father won't acknowledge me. Again I know this is him not me! But if you guys ahve noticed I'm not the type to give up on anything.

I know our relationship is what it is and I cannot change anything about it. what I have to be at ease with is that I did everything I could to at least try to have some kind of bond or some good out of all of this so I don't feel guilty for not trying hard enough after he has passed. I know what he did was wrong, and I have a lot of issues with all that. But I'm not like him and I refuse to ever do that to soemone else. This is what I fight with inside myself all the time!

Edit: I should also mention this family (his side) since I was about 3 has instilled guilt in mind for everything I have done. whether it be good or bad they have turned everything on me and would make me feel bad. This is not something one just get's out of their head that easy. I feel guilty over the smallest things and have whenever it comes to them.

You're putting way too much pressure on yourself over this. You dont need to inititate anything. You don't need your fathers approval to have high self esteem and selfworth. You can't change him, so just give up, this fight isn't yours to win. Sometimes distancing is the best thing you can ever do for yourself...

You need to reeeeeellex girl. ...Or better yet someone to reeeeeeellex you ;)

(I'm listening to ALice Cooper, BEd of NAils - Ouuuur Looove Is a BEd of NAils)

I eventually had to accept that I did not and would not ever have a father OR a mother in any but a biological sense. Had sufficient cause to severe contact with my father by the time I was 19. Didn't have any contact with him whatsoever until just before his death when I was 38...when I had sufficient cause to severe contact with my mother. Except for a brief visit from her when I was hospitalized with cancer at 43, haven't any contact at all with her since. Don't even know if she's still alive. In a couple of weeks, I'll be having my 56th birthday.

While we are strongly admonished all our lives to honor our mothers and fathers, nowhere is it written we must also love them. Or continue having anything at all to do with them if they persist in doing damage to us or to those we do love.

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Originally Posted by whaywardj

I eventually had to accept that I did not and would not ever have a father OR a mother in any but a biological sense. Had sufficient cause to severe contact with my father by the time I was 19. Didn't have any contact with him whatsoever until just before his death when I was 38...when I had sufficient cause to severe contact with my mother. Except for a brief visit from her when I was hospitalized with cancer at 43, haven't any contact at all with her since. Don't even know if she's still alive. In a couple of weeks, I'll be having my 56th birthday.

While we are strongly admonished all our lives to honor our mothers and fathers, nowhere is it written we must also love them. Or continue having anything at all to do with them if they persist in doing damage to us or to those we do love.

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That's sad, actually.

Yep. Took a couple of decades for me to get through and, finally, set aside.

Life is a mystery to be lived, not a problem to be solved.

Rosebud, I read your post. And as I was reading this thread, I was thinking what I could post. Well, here it is.

Different people have different circumstances in life. Well, duh! You can be the richest man in the World, and still be unhappy. Or you can be the poorest person, and be the happiest.

It's not the situations that define who you are as a person. But, it's how you 'act' in those situations that's important.

Martin Luther King once said, "The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy".

Rosebud, you are definately a person to be admired and respected for what you are going through. And also, with how you are dealing with your stress.

People like you, always come out on top. You will find a way.

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Originally Posted by RSK

Martin Luther King once said, "The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy".

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That's been my favorite quote ever since I first heard it when I was 12-13 years old.

aw roseb, don't sweat it. your dad is not you. you don't have to be like him if you simply don't want to be. i know how messed up this can be there is some "shame" in my family too. i don't think any family is without it. you'll get through it though, it'll just be hard for a little while, until it's not worth dwelling on it anymore.

I thank everyone for your kind words on this subject. And RSK, it means a lot for you to say those things to me, it is very much so, taken to my heart.

Mish, I really don't think you understand what I'm trying to say in all of this. I don't want my father's approval for anything nor do I care what he thinks of what I need to do for myself.

This has been one of the hardest things I have ever had to deal with in my life. I have handled several HARD things that came accross my path in my 25 years, but I have to say being able to be the person I am and accept things the way they are with my father and being the better person throughout has been the hardest. It's very simple for people to SAY they really don't care but when you have actually accomplished that in your heart and mind it takes quite a bit and I feel very satisfied with myself for doing so.

I do get upset from time to time upon looking in my past and seeing all the things that have been done unto me from people who were supposed to be there for me, but it makes me the smart, strong individual I am today which I couldn't be more proud of. I may sound a little narcissistic about all this but it's how I handle regrets and "what could have been's".

I have been doing a lot of soul searching lately and I think at times I just need to vent. So thank you guys again for listening to me and being so understanding through all this. You guys really are the best.... :)

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Originally Posted by Rosebud

Mish, I really don't think you understand what I'm trying to say in all of this. I don't want my father's approval for anything nor do I care what he thinks of what I need to do for myself.

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You are NOT? Are you SURE???

What do you want from him? Come to you and say "Thank you for all the time you have invested in me, it means a lot to me that my daughter initiated all the contact and always stayed in touch with me even when I was a complete d-i-c-k. From now on, I am a changed person and all thanks to you, my daughter. I am grateful for all the things you have done for me and I am and will always be proud of you."

Something like that, yeah? ;)

You know... Maybe it will help if you write down here all the things you want to hear from him that will make you cease your frustration...

NO. I don't and yes I'm sure! I read what you wrote on friday and it made me upset when I read it...I thought about it all weekend long.. I honestly don't want to rekindle anything with him. I don't give 2 shits what he thinks of me or how sorry or not sorry he is. It makes me very angry when people assume they know how one feels when they really don't. Please don't take that the wrong way but the factor that your telling me I want something that I don't makes me very uneasy! Especially about this. I'm very happy with the way I look at all this and I'm proud of how far I have come. And for you to say all this really bothers me because I ahve worked so hard for that not to be the case, and I have accomplished that.

I'm past the point of wanting anything from him, especially his approval in anything in my life. AS I HAVE ALREADY STATED ALL THIS IS FOR ME NOT ANYONE ELSE!

Edit: If he were to say that to me I would tell him too little too late or I would stop him before he even started. I don't want to hear it nor do I care how HE feels about any of this. Please read my above post again... I DO NOT WANT ANYTHING FROM HIM.

It's very interesting that you say you don't want anything from him, because earlier you wrote:

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Originally Posted by Rosebud

too be honest the reason i try to mend is to be able to have a good memory to remind me of him. All I have are bad ones.. I just want one memory of a good time so i don't ahve all this on my shoulders for the rest of my life.

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AND

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Originally Posted by Rosebud

The only battle I have is this: I have been the adult in our relationship since I can remember..I initiated phone calls, visits and so on because I never heard anything form him. I have always been the one to make the effort which has pushed me further and further into a hole because then I feel as though I'm nothing and not worth shit because my own father won't acknowledge me. Again I know this is him not me! But if you guys ahve noticed I'm not the type to give up on anything.

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You want something. Good memories, some recognition. It's understandable. It's very human to want those things...

Now be a good girl and stop arguing with me ;)

No Mish... your misunderstanding my point! first off I'm mending things in my mind. I have a lot of anger and aggression towards him due to all these things. I want a memory of me knowing I did everything I could to be satisfied with myself for the way I handled everything up to the point he dies. Not that I want to mend a relationship or have anything with him. The memory I want is accomplishment of myself for how I have handled everything so I don't have any regrets.

And again on the second note, are my feelings of what has happened. How I ahve felt about things have happened throughout the years. In no way did I say I want apporval from him because he made me feel this way. But again If you remember I wrote it's made me who I am today which i'm very satisfied with.

And no I will not stop arguing with you on this because it's about me and how I feel and your wrong!!!!!!!!!!! Completely wrong! Your actually upsetting me quite a bit because I know that's not how I feel.

Maybe [URL=http://24.73.176.86./rosebuds.mp3]this[/URL] will help a little, Rosebud.

I thank you Hayward! Much appreciated... good song!

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Originally Posted by Rosebud

I want a memory of me knowing I did everything I could to be satisfied with myself for the way I handled everything up to the point he dies. Not that I want to mend a relationship or have anything with him. The memory I want is accomplishment of myself for how I have handled everything so I don't have any regrets.

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Oh I see. So you just want to quietly wait for him to die without mending anything or having any kind of closure.

Sorry, I must have misunderstood you earlier...

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Originally Posted by Mishanya

Oh I see. So you just want to quietly wait for him to die without mending anything or having any kind of closure.

Sorry, I must have misunderstood you earlier...

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MIsh no need to be sarcastic... You have to understand where I'm coming from on all this.

I have explained very briefly some of the things he has done as I was growing up and how I have handled all those situations. I haven't gone into really any detail because I didn't think it was needed. I have come to terms with who he was/is and I accept him as that. I have had issues from all this and have also come to terms with them, and resolved most of them ie. abandonment, insecurities, etc. Why would I want to make any relationship with soemone who doesn't want one? Or even truly feels bad for what they have done which he doesn't (it's all a fasod..spelling???) Why would I put myself through all that all over again to try and gain something I will never be satisifed with?

So I'm not sitting back quietly waiting until he dies. I won't have closure until he dies! I know the person he is and I know he will never change, I have made many attempts to start over fresh and new and he has not responded in any way. So I'm mending my issues by accepting all this.

For you to make that remark....I just.... wow..... I don't even know what to say. I mean seriously, you expect me to feel like he owes me something? I don't. He gave what he wanted to give, yes it's not what I would want but that's what he did. I can't change the past the only thing I can do is accept the things I can't change.

How can anyone ever have satisfactory closure with a man who is interested in children sexually? He's sucked enough out of you, Rosebud. Give him up, sweetie. he will die, you will probably be a bit sad, and then you will move on.

The problem is, he's not just a man. He's your father. Do what you can to see more of the man and less of the father.

i haven't talked to my father for 13 years. he's a man whore. but it still hurts not having a dad there for me.

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Originally Posted by vashti

How can anyone ever have satisfactory closure with a man who is interested in children sexually? He's sucked enough out of you, Rosebud. Give him up, sweetie. he will die, you will probably be a bit sad, and then you will move on.

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Exactly what I was trying to say, only coated with nicer wording :)

I'm not making excuses but the child pornography thing is a long story. It was listed as child because she ALMOST 18. And it was pictures on a computer, and not that it was any better but I just want to clarify that it wasn't like physical abuse or anything of that sort even though it was still humiliating.

And basically I have given him up. basically what's going on now is I'm trying to get the things my grand father wanted me to have and since they wouldn't give it to me when I wasn't talking to them, I am getting those things now and.. because of things going down hill with my dad I'm sticking around only because it's close for him to be leaving...

There was once theory going around in sociology circles that people in the US strive to fulfill the dreams of their grandparents, not their parents.

I was closer to my grandpa then I was to anyone else on that side of the family. After he passed I stopped talking to all of them right away up until this past year. I should mention my grandpa has been dead now for going on 7 years. He didn't have a will but some of things he wanted me to have he told me, but knowing that they refused to give me any of it because my unlces felt they deserved it more than I.

See, that side of the family is all messed up......big time!