whats this all mean ? my ultimate dillema.

First off id like to say hi to everyone as im new here. Hopefully i can learn a good bit, but for now here is my contribution in hopes of finding some answers and insight !

(ps: i know its a bit long of a read but some backround history was necessary)

Everything began in high school. seeing her around I developed a deep crush for her that was only further fueled by her own actions. Constantly gazing deep into my eyes, shyness whenever I was around, trying to bump into me on some ocassions when around her friends, even seemingly following me around during lunch time just to get that extra look, ah what good times ! As I probed about her I learned she was very religious (believe it) and had very strict parents aside from the fact she was really into her school (now an engineering major at a top university) Needless to say I was turned down by her friends (keyword) on the same basis. Heartbroken and saddened at her mixed signals I moved on and on to College.

The girl in question we'll name Janet, for the sake of privacy and respect. During College I learned a good friend had finally engaged and was ready to get married to guess who.....Janet's good friend (even best friend) ! When the wedding finally came around sure enough she was there too and this time rather adamant in her feelings. Immediately she bumped into me smiled and as I looked back shes still there looking at me in a shy tone. Later on as I go to congratulate the newlyweds a friend of hers that was sitting at Janets table next to her unexpectedly comes up within inches and starts video taping me (!) Taking a glance back I see Janet with her head down a bit stroking her hair and i knew it was on her command, flattery at its best

A few days after the wedding I get a call from my newlywed friend, after some regular chatting he claims Janet was talking about me with her friends and that he would ultimatey "hook us up". Finally after some time i got a call for a get together but was unable to go. Well ill be honest I was and am VERY shy and gave an excuse for not making it. (oh brother) Although a friend who did go had a revelation for me, after telling her I was coming she said "oh, i didnt even dress up" Some months passed and I got anther inivtation to their house knowing she would be there too. I came through finally and everything went well, again catching her glances, crossed legs & feet pointing at me, and a smiling glow with every word. Everything went great (or seemed so) That night and a few days later I got another call from my friend saying how she was asking his wife (her good friend) if i still had a crush on her ! Approximately a month later I got a call from my friends wife (janets friend) that she had a date for me and to pick a restaurant accordingly. i was pleasantly suprised and exctatic, but yet two months passed and nothing transpired.

Upon visiting their house again two months later her friend claims that in the next two or three weeks that date will happen, just that as of late shes been busy with her newborn and Janet is still busy with school, no problem ill wait i told her and myself. and again nothing, two more months would pass and i would decide to take things into my own hands, calling my friends wife and letting her know of my impatience (well not in those words) she said ok, shed call her and get back to me.


Well she did, and to my suprise and with a bit of paraphrasing had this to give me as an answer from Janet: "basically her thing is shes too busy with school and work. she doesnt want to lead you on bevelving thers going to be a relationhip because she has no time for one and is not ready. she barely has anytime for her family and her sister too.i did ask her though if she was seeing anyone and she said no. she also said she was really flattered.

Now I was dustraught and devasted hearing this, i didnt know what to make of it either. I do know and understand she really is busy with her life (or maybe the easy way for an excuse?). I also know she wouldnt lead me on for so long and invovle her married friend either ! it doesnt suite her morals and who she is. So essentially my question is what now ?

What course of action do I have ? Time to get in tough with reality and accept she never did have any interest ? (truly mindboggling but a real possibility i guess) Understand and cope with the fact that shes busy but that she *MAY* have left a bit of a window open in the future with the flattered/not seeing anyone comments ?

Any help would be much appreciated :upset:

I am noticing a couple of things.

First of all, I don't understand why you have been so passive in pursuing contact with this girl. Frankly, it makes you look childish to me. ONE blind date is enough; the rest should have been up to you. Quit having your friends so involved in hooking you up if you want women to respect you.

Second of all, I think you need a bit of a reality check. You two never actually had a real date. You have an awful lot of emotional investment in a relationship that never was. I think it would be a good idea for you to become a bit more experienced in casual dating so you can gain some confidence and perspective.

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Originally Posted by vashti

I am noticing a couple of things.

First of all, I don't understand why you have been so passive in pursuing contact with this girl. Frankly, it makes you look childish to me.

Quit having your friends so involved in hooking you up if you want women to respect you.

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First off, thank you for your insight. The main reason I've been passive is because of my lack of confidence (ill be the first to admit this) I've overcome quite the amount of problems within myself though and over the course of the past few months Ive been vibrant and poccessed the necessary confidence. I too can understand how I might have potentially come across as childish to her too and I can understand completely, too little too late ?

I doubt you have had much of an opportunity to have made a strong impression one way or the other. One thing is clear, though: she is not interested in a relationship at this time. I would avoid investing any more emotion on this girl, and begin gaining some practical experience in casual dating, if I were you.

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Originally Posted by vashti

I doubt you have had much of an opportunity to have made a strong impression one way or the other. One thing is clear, though: she is not interested in a relationship at this time.

I would avoid investing any more emotion on this girl, and begin gaining some practical experience in casual dating, if I were you.

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Thanks for the advice Vashti. (been awhile since i signed on) Making a strong impression, possibly not (actually surely) at the level we all crave, but after not seeing her since High School and suddenly ast the wedding encountering her rather aggresive reaction to me, I would beg to differ here.

I have taken your advice and sought casually dating, of course thats a work in progress, but definately a step into gaining some perspective. Thank you.

Finally to close, once more reffering to the woman in question when this thread was created, I just cannot seem to understand why her own actions and even words hinted at strong feelings yet resulted in something far different ?

A true puzzle ...:detective

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Originally Posted by Alexander84

Finally to close, once more reffering to the woman in question when this thread was created, I just cannot seem to understand why her own actions and even words hinted at strong feelings yet resulted in something far different ?

A true puzzle ...:detective

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Maybe her reasonings are the same as yours. Maybe she is just as shy?

But, now she seems to be putting things on hold and concentrating on school and her family. You have to respect that.

But, honestly, going thru friends usually does not work. I mean your friends can only take you so far, and once they got the initial date set up, it was up to you to follow through. I understand that you were shy and everything, but just look at what you missed out on?

I think Vashti is right about trying to get more into casual dating. This will help you get more experience and knowledge as well as confidence. Plus, you never know who you may meet!

Honestly though, in a real relationship, you need to be able to communicate. If shyness stands in the way, chances are its going to be very hard to make things work, let alone start things up.
I know how it feels though. I have liked guys and with a few of them the feelings were mutual. I just didn't know how to pursue them, and I found out that they felt the same way. So nothing ever happened! We were both too passive and therefore missed out! It sucks looking back, but what can you do?

Thats why it is very important to find someone you are comfortable with. Or at least someone you can talk to and let things go from there. Then you will be surprised how fast your shyness can melt away.

Is it worth going through all these years of "maybe" just to avoid a potential "no"? She's given you all the encouragement a lady should have to give. If it were me, I'd be mad that you didn't call me yourself, and had a friend do the asking for you. I would have told my friend, "Oh, forget it. I don't have time for this." which would have meant "forget HIM, I'm tired of waiting, feeling like he's never going to ask".

I stopped talking to boys through friends in 8th grade.

Call her.

I agree with Gigabitch. I mean, come on man. Everything is basically lying there in front of you. She APPARENTLY has a huge crush on you, and you know it because of your confidence of her actions towards you. And it seems like you have a bit of a crush on her too. And this has been going on for a long time. So I don't get it! You don't need her friends to make the moves or try to make the date for you. Usually, guys are shy about asking girls out because of fear of rejection. But in your case, she's not going to reject because she doesn't want to go on a date with you, it'll be because she can't at that time. If you really want it, she'll go out on a date with you... after a couple dates, see where it goes from there. But you really have to make some moves!!! I find no reason to be passive in your situation.

Call her.

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Originally Posted by Ellynn

Maybe her reasonings are the same as yours. Maybe she is just as shy?

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A very true possibility, thanks for your insights everyone things are starting to become a bit more clear, and the possibility of loosing out to someone as such has really hit me hard. I dont know if I've mentioned this already but she belongs to one of the *other* Abrahamic religions and me being Christian, I can see why she would be reluctant involving her friend in much of anything either, talk can find its way around a community quickly and indiscriminately.

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Originally Posted by GigaBitch

Is it worth going through all these years of "maybe" just to avoid a potential "no"? She's given you all the encouragement a lady should have to give.

Call her

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And here I was merely sitting on my stool, contemplating while life past by, wow.

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Originally Posted by Prodigal

Call Her.

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Okay, but how exactly would I go about getting her number ? Asking her friend on my behalf obviously wont bear any fruit right ? Since Ill be doing the same and involving a third party as before, whereas "Janet" might not want ANYONE to know if we indeed exchange numbers,ETC. Especially her friend that is of the same religious and ethnic backround, am I wrong in assuming this ?

Is my best bet having my friend simply "steal" her number from his wifes list ?

Ay, caramba. No, getting her number from a friend is NOT the same thing as getting the friend to have the conversation for you.

Just get the number and see how you feel.

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Originally Posted by Gigabitch

No, getting her number from a friend is NOT the same thing as getting the friend to have the conversation for you.

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That I understand, hopefully though her friend will give out her number without calling Janet for "permission", in that case I'am probably in for a tragedy, again.

I'll let you all know how it goes.

:CROSSESFINGERS:

Oh quit it, Eeyore! There is no tragedy. You might be surprised how good things can be if you expect it.

Good luck. I hope she says yes. You may have to ask more than once. Don't give up unless it becomes apparent that you're being a pain in the ass.

Well today I received "the" answer if you will...........

Her friend would not give me her phone number outright, she didnt even give a reason for not doing so. She claimed she would have to call Janet and ask her for me, and she would ask her IF we could simply "exchange numbers". (SUPRISE SUPRISE!)

A little later I get a call from my friend who seemed to be in a real bad state telling me he wanted to see me and tell me what happened himself. Well after some chatting he finally mustered Janets so called answer claiming she said :

"No I cannot, our cultures are too different" (!)

Shocked and obviously still not able to comprehend what the hell just happened. How does it now become a cultural issue ? At any rate, im led to beleive its now all but over, am i correct in assuming this ?

:SIGH: I'd just like to thank everyone who took time from their own lives to post their own opinions and thoughts in an attempt to help and aid in my situation. Thank you so much.

:KEEPS WALKING:

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Originally Posted by Gigabitch

You may have to ask more than once.

Don't give up unless it becomes apparent that you're being a pain in the ass.

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Interesting. Do you honestly believe that if I can pull her aside when I see her and talk to her alone there just might be a different outcome at this point ?

Is it too not a possibility that her friend is the one hindering the situation ? I don't ever see getting a positive answer from Janet no matter how many times it is asked as long as her friend is involved IMO. Yet I do know she (janet) is extremely shy and pocesses strict parents she wouldnt want to estrange, thus making her possiby a bit reluctant, but surely she wouldnt tease either knowing nothing would ever materialize for whatever the reason.

Should I then go ahead and try talking to her face to face as my last playing card, and see where that takes me or am I seriously wasting my time as of now ? Anyone willing to chime in ? Thanks a bunch.

-Alex

Just me, I guess.

I think there's a lot to be said for person-to-person communication. You should try to see her. You'll be glad you did just because you'll have a much more clear idea of what's going on.

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Originally Posted by Gigabitch

Just me, I guess.

I think there's a lot to be said for person-to-person communication. You should try to see her. You'll be glad you did just because you'll have a much more clear idea of what's going on.

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I knew I could count on at least you Giga, bless you. ;)

And I agree whole heartedly, there is no substitute for that kind of communication. It surely beats sitting around and trying to guess and assume what could be going on in her head and wether or not I messed up everything myself. So I just had my friend set a get together of sorts that would naturally include her, hopefully within the next three or so weeks I'll get back to you guys with what happened, whats really going on and if anything will materialize.

Once more, thanks for your advice and support everyone, its making this heart troubling issue alot easier on me.

Let's hope it works out. I think you're doing the right thing here.

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Originally Posted by Prodigal

Let's hope it works out. I think you're doing the right thing here.

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Thanks Prodigal, I hope the same too. Getting to the bottom of everything and getting a concrete answer is essential after what I've been through, I think we are in agreement here.

I sure hope she's not playing hard to get though.

Well I had a sit down with her friend (my own friends wife) and discussed the matter with her. I told her about all the occurances that led me beleive she in fact did have feelings for me, her friend didnt know about almost any of these instances and claimed I indeed deserved at least an answer from herself.

Unfortunately she also told me that she's tried everything, that inviting her to her house wont work out because she knows you'll be there , how she is unwilling to distribute her number, etc. At the same time she let me know how Janet was agitated and kept asking her why she tried setting us up, what gave me the impression I had feelings for her when we had never really sat down and talked, how she claimed she could only see someone from her own ethnic backround in her future and how she is as a person, that in their near decade of a friendship, Janet has never even mentioned of any crushes, or commeneted on any guys looks, and even felt very uncomfortable and akward around guys she knew liked her. And that from what she knows shes probably never even been on a date,etc, and how shes dreadfully shy.

We came to the conclusion that based on all this is that I in the least deserve an answer from her self, and that the best thing would be for me to write her a simple yet detailed letter telling her how I feel, what leads me to beleive she has feelings for me and asking her if she would essentially give me the opportunity to simply get to know her through whatever way she feels most comfortable (IE: through letters,email or even supplying me phone # in the letter)

What do you guys think of this situation as it stands ? Makes me beleive shes simply expecting her parents to set up a marrage for her !

Am In the wrong and severely blinded for at least attempting to write her this letter in an attempt to get her to get out of her shell and find out what the reality of it all is ?

Well ladies and gents what do you think ?

Anyone ? Am I doing the right thing here ? :upset:

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Originally Posted by Alexander84 [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Well ladies and gents what do you think ?

Anyone ? Am I doing the right thing here ? :upset:

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Alex.

Man my heart goes out to you, I've been there. I know what its like to have a girl give you the 'come on'. You maybe pass it off for a while but the feeling grows and grows. You still ignore it but it won't go away, you really really like her and you know she feels the same! When you finally decide you've had enough and take action......BANG...you're knocked back!

In my case it was simple....she had a boyfriend. But in your case she seems to be protecting YOU from getting hurt later. Knowing her parents won't allow any sort of relationship to develop she's actually depriving herself from a relationship with the person she is attracted to. She comes accross as a nice person. I feel sorry for ye both!

Before you take this any further I would ask you to seriously think about this girl and see if she is really worth the hassel. I mean is she really that beautiful, really that compatable with you and have ye really so much in common that it is worth all the pain and harship ye both will have to endure to see each other.

You may look back at this (especially if someone better comes along later) and realise that any type of relationship would have fizzled out pretty quickly anyhow.

Thats my advice, sorry if it's NOT what you want to hear

D

She takes shy to the very border of mental, doesn't she?

I think the letter thing is a stellar idea. You express yourself well, and so shouldn't be too nervous about what to write.

I hope it works. You seem patient. You'll have to be, to get this girl.

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Originally Posted by derm [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I know what its like to have a girl give you the 'come on'. You maybe pass it off for a while but the feeling grows and grows. You still ignore it but it won't go away, you really really like her and you know she feels the same! When you finally decide you've had enough and take action......BANG...you're knocked back!

in your case she seems to be protecting YOU from getting hurt later. Knowing her parents won't allow any sort of relationship to develop she's actually depriving herself from a relationship with the person she is attracted to. She comes accross as a nice person

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Pretty accurate enough summary you've got there. What I cant bear to understand is, if indeed she never had the intention of even getting to know me (parents or not) then why even partake in such apparant deceit ? She couldnt let go either ?

If it is indeed her parents holding her back then *MAYBE there is a way around this obsticle, and she's at least willing to take the risk after getting to know a bit about me through whatever method she perfers and doesnt put her in an uncomfortable position.

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Originally Posted by GigaBitch

She takes shy to the very border of mental, doesn't she?

I think the letter thing is a stellar idea. You express yourself well, and so shouldn't be too nervous about what to write. I hope it works. You seem patient. You'll have to be, to get this girl.

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Thats fine with me, as long as it actually is her shyness thats being demonstrated and her reluctancy to let anyone know of her feelings towards myself and not her possible disgust/dislike towards me by not wanting to come to her friends house knowing ill be there, and the other things she told her friend.

Thanks for the kind words, hopefully my patience will pay off. Just handed in that letter yesterday (Fri.) Hopefully there is some form of answer in the horizon soon.

:CrossesFingers:

Well today I received my so-called reply.......

After reading the letter she was apparantly mad at her friend for "leading me on" oddly enough. (though if anyone, it wasnt them) She did later call and apologize for that to her friend. Anyways, she went on to tell her that the reply was the following: That she was SEEING SOMEONE (!) how she was happy, the relationship was indeed serious and how she's in love. And that she does not have feelings for me. She then proceeded to tear my letter and threw it away. (sigh!) Upon being asked to at least write back her reply she simply claimed how she didnt want to lead me on. Her friend also told me she had seen Janet with the man in question a few days earlier (who was from her own ethnic backround too) but didnt want to jump to conclusions until after she gave the letter to her.

Not much to say other than the fact that im severely confused, and obviously disappointed. Most of all in the way I was treated. Im guessing she did in fact have some feelings but due to our differences she new that nothing would ever materialize. Lessons learned ? I guess not to open my heart to anyone and if in fact you do feel a certain way, make sure you go on the offensive instantaneuously !

:upset:

That stinks, Alex!

I think the dramatic treatment of the letter indicated some level of feeling there, but she's apparently so concerned with ethnicity, she's willing to let it dictate her life.

Eh, you're a quality guy. you'll find someone else. Next time you'll know what to do.

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Originally Posted by Gigabitch [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I think the dramatic treatment of the letter indicated some level of feeling there

but she's apparently so concerned with ethnicity, she's willing to let it dictate her life.

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At the same time you'd think if there were feelings, she'd at least have treated me as the human-being I'am instead of the sub-human I was consequently treated as. When I was told of her disposing the letter as such I just litterally sank. You'd also think she wouldnt have partaken in leading me on HERSELF if she knew nothing would ever materialize, but I guess thats part of her not wanting to let go and make herself feel better.

You know, Ironically enough I talked about our cultures and specifically, narrow-mindedness in the letter too. Spot on in the end ! Im sure she'll be wondering how things COULD have been !

Oh well im far too young to throw in the towel now and ill know i moved on having tried my best and simply being myself. Sometimes though there are mentalities that time cannot change and that much is unfortunate, as im sure its kept alot from being acheived. In closing, much appreciation to everyone that took the time and cared enough to post and help me out in this situation.

;)

Personally, I think that she has feelings but is forcibly stifling them. If somebody did that to you, would you rip up the letter? Even if you hated the person?

I think she's pretending like she hates you and treats you 'sub-humanlike' because it's a way for her to deny any attraction. And you know what? She's probably doing that because of the whole ethnicity thing.

You have the right mentality. If she can't get past it, forget about her and move on (which it seems I don't even need to tell you because you already know). You'll find someone better suited for you, I'm sure.

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Originally Posted by Prodigal [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Personally, I think that she has feelings but is forcibly stifling them.

If somebody did that to you, would you rip up the letter? Even if you hated the person?

I think she's pretending like she hates you and treats you 'sub-humanlike' because it's a way for her to deny any attraction. She's probably doing that because of the whole ethnicity thing.

If she can't get past it, forget about her and move on

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And that fact hurts SO much more, yet at the same time makes things a bit easier as far as letting go, knowing other things stood in the way. Honestly its hard to explain what I'm feeling.........

As far as what I would have personally done in her position ? I would have simply returned the letter to the sender, and offered my reply orally too. I also think theres good reason she didnt want to tell her friend anything that was contained in the letter either, it would have made her look even worse !

Yea, obviously there is nothing left. And chances are if indeed she is seeing someone it is serious and will most likely eventually lead to engagement/marrage provided the family "approves".

Of course, nothing will change who I'am. Thanks Prodigal.

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Originally Posted by Alexander84 [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

As far as what I would have personally done in her position ? I would have simply returned the letter to the sender, and offered my reply orally too. I also think theres good reason she didnt want to tell her friend anything that was contained in the letter either, it would have made her look even worse !

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Ooo! Good point. She was destroying the evidence.

Yea, that might definately be the case ! Yet it may even simply be a privacy issue.

*edit* : You know another thing that boggles me is the fact that now, suddenly, she's magically 'in love', and its 'serious'. I mean, did she keep it a secret from everyone including her friend for some time (consequently when i was taking the opportunity) and now that her friend saw her herself decided to come out with it too ? A move to simply shake me off once and for all regardless of the existence of even a relationship ?

Blah, oh well, some women are just evil. Hopefully the pain subsides in the next weeks/months and im able to move on.

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Originally Posted by Alexander84 [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Blah, oh well, some women are just evil.

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Her new nickname: Satana.

And she earned it too :mad: