New male member with relationship troubles.

Hi all,

Guess all persons posting here have their own important reasons for searching out this forum or one similar.

My reason is that I'm deeply troubled by recent events regarding a platonic friend ( she described me quite recently as her only confidante ).
I am a much younger looking ( according to comments ) 56 year old, young at heart, straight male and married for 33 years with a 19 year old daughter. My marriage has its long term problems but is reasonably stable.
She is 33 years old, married for 14 years to her childhood sweetheart and with an 11 year old son, but in a marriage that has become unhappy.

I have known her for 4 - 5 years and for 2 -3 years we have been able to talk about just about anything. We have been confidantes. It was always platonic - no sex talk or flirting - and until very recently there has been no awkwardnesses whatsoever. I can talk to no one like I can talk to her and she has said the same. I think she is soul mate material and that blows my mind.

This introduction obviously hints of a very complicated situation and I will compile a more detailed post soon.

The relationship has become strained the past few weeks and I'm at my wits end - I need her and can't loose her as my confidant but am in danger of doing so.
Platonically I love her to bits but I/we have crossed the line recently ( we've not made love ). It introduced awkwardnesses.
It's so very complex.

I need help.
I need advice.
I need opinions.
Especially from females on here. ( Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus etc )

I'm not looking to meet anyone else here for a relationship - I desperately need help with this one.
I love her but am not 'in love' with her, somehow I've managed to hold back on that.
We agreed to have no contact for a while a few weeks ago - I see her at work occasionally and I need a plan to recover the situation - time is running out. The next few weeks I will see her at work much more and need to be prepared.

I'm almost inclined to cut and run but can't imagine not having her as my special friend. My confidante.

To give a you perspective on this I have had several infatuations, about 6, over the time I've been married and been 'in love' once ( not her ) but no affairs. She helped me cope when I was 'in love' about 4 years ago.
She told me a couple of years ago in general conversation that she has never had an infatuation. I know of a brief affair ( the only one since being married ) she had about 3 years ago, and I helped her cope at the time. She told me much about it. She was ( possibly still is ) 'in love' with him.

Those conversations are probably what made us so close and built the trust. We have both said that we know each other too well.

Thanks for listening - I'll make another post once I have put it together and identified the best forum.

straight&56

Your relationship with her is structured within the confines of your existent marriages. It sounds like it's getting out of control- threatening the structure that holds it in place.

I need more explanation about "crossing the line". What does that mean? What happened? Was it an emotional breach? What?

Don't you dare cut out on her. I'm sure whatever you're going through, she's going through too. Calm down. You have what it takes to deal with this, whatever it is, with dignity. Don't panic.

whoa... being that about the age of your daughter.. how about a different type of introduction?? j/k.

well.. let me say that i've never been married. however, this relationship with your "friend" might have developed because both of you are longing for something and you're receiving that comfort from one another. sure your marriages might not be the best, however, remember the getting to know another person part of a relationship?? the new parts are always the most fun and intriguing. i would consider that you take a step back and re-evaluation both of your situations and take it from there.

raverboy

I would like to mention that my boyfriend is out of town for two weeks and the phrase "male member" is making me miss him. A lot.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gigabitch [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I would like to mention that my boyfriend is out of town for two weeks and the phrase "male member" is making me miss him. A lot.

---

You're makin' me miss him too.

i got an idea.. if you rub friz's head it will bring back memories of your male member...

raverboy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gigabitch [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Your relationship with her is structured within the confines of your existent marriages. It sounds like it's getting out of control- threatening the structure that holds it in place.

I need more explanation about "crossing the line". What does that mean? What happened? Was it an emotional breach? What?

Don't you dare cut out on her. I'm sure whatever you're going through, she's going through too. Calm down. You have what it takes to deal with this, whatever it is, with dignity. Don't panic.

---

Thanks for your reply.

The circumstances that brought this to a head a few weeks ago are this.

A young ( 22 yo ) friend of hers at work who knew of her affair thought it would be a good idea recently to search out the man

my friend had the affair with almost 3 years ago. Without going into details of his employment she was able to do this on the

Internet. The man had moved from our area to London soon after the affair ended and as far as my friend knew this is where he

remained and it was a safe distance away. However the 22 yo discovered that he had moved back within 15 miles of our location.

Like an idiot she told my friend of his new local location.

I should add that neither the man nor my friend wanted the affair to end but my friend ended it with thoughts of her son

foremost in her mind.

My friend's curiosity took the better of her and she drove to his workplace, saw his car then even TURNED ROUND ON HIS CARPARK

before driving away. She told me the following day and I reminded her of her heartache when the affair ended. I asked what if

he had seen her - well it turns out he did. Soon afterwards he rang her for an explanation and she tried to make excuses to

him. He gave her an ultimatum with about 1 weeks notice to leave her husband or never to have contact with him again.

Emotionally this set her back 2 years and she was in complete turmoil. There was the possibility she would leave our place of

work with a moments notice and I had to say something to her.

All I said to her was that I hoped I wasn't speaking out of place but I would be sad to see her go. My emotions were screaming

that I'd be devastated to see her go but I didn't tell her that. I didn't want to influence her descision - it was hers to

make. We talked and I helped her through her trauma. She didn't leave in response to the ultimatum. I had no ulterior motive

here and she knows that.

Emotionally I am not one to go where I'm not invited and within a couple of weeks it seemed to me that she was inviting that we

become closer. There were things she said ( hints, sometimes strong ones, only ) and did. Things that were almost out of

character for her in how she had been with me all the time I've known her.
I realised that to become romantically involved with her risked our exceptionally close platonic relationship and I initially

ignored my instincts to follow up on them. I realised that to fall in love with her would be stupid of me. I remember the

moment when I knew I was in trouble - we were alnone, had extended eye contact and then we both looked away. I remember

thinking to myself ' Oh no, not with Emma ( thats not her name )'.
There was a period approaching when I would hardly see her at work for 9 weeks ( shift changes and holidays ) and I said to her

' you know its going to be 9 weeks before we can chat properly again again'. I sent her an email suggesting ways we could keep

in touch and began to cross the line between platonic and non platonic in it telling her how I felt about her. We exchanged

several text messages and she was always nice but non comital on how she felt ( the way women are - indirect talking etc ).

Like I said I don't go where not invited and I was sure I'd been invited.

Anyway I messed up over the 9 weeks seperation ( it ends in 2 weeks time ) and she became angry with me. I am also angry with

her - not because of the rejection, I don't want to be where I'm not welcome. I'm angry because of a letter she gave me about 2

weeks ago denying that she ever felt any chemistry, was not physically attracted to me anyway and in any event I am older than

her mother. She said we needed time without contact but hoped we could be friends again in time.

I know she has been under a lot of stress lately as there are other things even more than the ultimatum she recently faced.

We always gravitated to each other when work allowed ( some co workers had noticed this ), not just me to her, she to me also,

we had quiet meets on corridors and she'd close doors for privacy.
Basically I don't believe her when she said she never felt any chemistry or there was no attraction. I think most mature adults

can see the signs when someone is attracted to them, they shout out at you as they did from her. Either that or I'm crazy.

This of course is where I could REALLY mess up if not careful.
I cant of course say to her ' I don't believe you ' and start to point out things she has done and said.
I am so sure I am right that I am beginning not to trust her and that is something we have had for a long time.
This is why I'm inclined to cut and run - a confidant you can no longer trust is no confidante.

She has said that had there been no possibility that she would have left in response to the ultimatum I probably wouldn't have

said anything to her and I think she's right on that. We were more than fine as we were.
Now we're both angry and estranged and theres the possibility we could become entrenched. I have seen her at work a few times

this week and we just exchange pleasantries at the moment.

There's a lot more to this situation but I hope this explains in enough detail what has happened and how the line was crossed.

I'm not after an affair exactly. Its not just sex, its not even sex - though I have thought about it, its a greater closeness.
Its so hard to explain.
Yes I'd like to meet her away from work. She strongly hinted at this before I messed up.

A bit like the situation in the 1970's hit song 'Me & Mrs Jones' was what I thought sounded good.

And I still don't know how to deal with it.

Gah! So complicated! Remember when life was simple and all you had to worry about was who to go to the prom with?

The thought that kept running through my head as I read the above was about my own experience with getting very close to a male friend. Long story short, I got my heart broken. I got shredded. We ended up sleeping together and it got very complicated, and he totally cut me off emotionally. I didn't even know I was in love with him until it was all over. This still hurts. It was almost 14 years ago.

Be very careful that you do NOT do something irrevocable with this woman. She is probably much more emotionally bonded to you than even she realizes. She's trying to create some boundaries by writing the letter to you, but I think you know what the real story is.

I really feel for her- her situation sounds really unstable. Please try to remain steadfast at this point. Don't react. Don't stir things up. You'll end up getting hurt and she'll end up getting even more hurt.

Are you close with your wife at all? Are you planning to stay with her?

i can't believe that you and her "friend" would tell her the guy was around. i can't believe he gave her an ultimatum, which was probably a crock of shit and he was calling her bluff (correctly).

how would you feel if your wife had a "confidant?" or how would you feel if your daughter was hooked up with somebody more than twice her age?

i feel bad for this girl. her best friends are her enemies and her enemies are her best friends. if i were you, i'd leave the poor girl alone. she obviously doesn't need all this drama.

It sounds like this woman's emotionality is far more tied up in this old affair than in you, no offense. Her love is all over the place. She's married but unhappy, the man she wants to be with will only be with her if she will make major changes in her life that she is scared to make and you are the one who hears all about it.

My opinion is simply that if she is in this much turmoil over the ex then the odds are stacked against you. I don't personally believe in loving more than one person at a time. Obviously this girl doesn't even love herself enough to extract herself from an unhappy marriage. My guess is that she has a deep-rooted need to be "loved" yet isn't that good at separating that many various types of love there are floating around in the world.

If she wrote you a letter and asked you to back off--do it. If you really care about her (and it sounds like you do) then do whatever you can to be her friend and help her get her life in order without becoming more emotionally involved than you have to. And for goodness' sakes if she starts to dig a hole don't jump into it with her. You who have never had an affair owe yourself and your wife that much at least.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gigabitch [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Gah! So complicated! Remember when life was simple and all you had to worry about was who to go to the prom with?

The thought that kept running through my head as I read the above was about my own experience with getting very close to a male friend. Long story short, I got my heart broken. I got shredded. We ended up sleeping together and it got very complicated, and he totally cut me off emotionally. I didn't even know I was in love with him until it was all over. This still hurts. It was almost 14 years ago.

Be very careful that you do NOT do something irrevocable with this woman. She is probably much more emotionally bonded to you than even she realizes. She's trying to create some boundaries by writing the letter to you, but I think you know what the real story is.

I really feel for her- her situation sounds really unstable. Please try to remain steadfast at this point. Don't react. Don't stir things up. You'll end up getting hurt and she'll end up getting even more hurt.

Are you close with your wife at all? Are you planning to stay with her?

---

Gigabitch.
Thanks again for your reply - you are being very helpful and it is appreciated.

I should have searched for a forum like this weeks ago instead of trying to work it out myself and we probably wouldn't be in this situation.

In all I post here I am trying very hard not give clues that would cause any of the people involved to be identified. After all we are on a worldwide public forum that will probably be viewable for years. I'm trying not to name employment fields nor locations as this could give clues to identities. As a result I have changed my location to UK as opposed to the more localised one in the UK I initially used.
One reason I'm being very careful here is because only recently I said to her I would tell no one about this and I feel I'm betraying her trust in a way just by writing about it here - but I now know I can't deal with it myself - I'm too involved to think clearly about it all. And it needs to be resolved which will take some time.

Sad to hear of your experience of 14 years ago - why is love so complicated?

Your suggestion that I do nothing irrevocable is only just in time as I set things in train about a week ago ( after her letter ) that were intended to be irrevocable. I hoped that they would have been implemented by now and before we were in regular contact at work again. I am fortunate in that I am able to move my work location to another site a few miles away and refuse work at her location if I wish. This takes a little time to implement - it will still go ahead but I now think I need to not cut off completely from her location which was my intent. I will work at both sites.

I appreciate what you are saying re me knowing the real story is but that's not certain. In her letter ( OK she was angry when she wrote it ) she is direct and says she is not interested ( romantically that is). I am inclined to think this may be a change of heart from things before I messed up but nevertheless it is very direct.

Maybe she is much more emotionally bonded to me than even she realizes and I think that could be true but it's not certain.
These doubts are what are causing the anxiety in me.

I think her situation with the man she had the affair with is decided and I don't think that is making her situation unstable. Even when the affair was happening, outwardly she appeared calm, though at the start of the affair she said she felt like she had murdered someone because she felt that guilty.
Outwardly she appears to be very stable to someone that doesn't know her - she seems able to compartmentalise things very well. Much better than me. She does have quite a few things on her mind though at present.

I won't take any drastic action to stir things up. Resolution is what I want not more anger in either of us.
We have never been angry with each other before, we've had mild disagreements but never anger.

Thanks again for your help Gigabitch.

**********************************

While writing this I have had email notification of a new post to this thread from misombra.

Just to clarify this for misombra I have added what now follows.

I did not tell her the man had moved back locally again ( I wouldn't have had I known ) it was her friend ( as I described her ). That 'friend' is 22 years old, immature, single and thought it exciting to bring this news to her. How mistaken she was.
I have been aware of much of the detail regarding the affair and I can assure you that the ultimatum was not a 'crock of shit and he was ( not ) calling her bluff (correctly).'

If you have never been there in such a serious situation I respectfully suggest you withhold your judgemental comments.
I think many on this forum would testify that its easy to be judgemental in such situations when you haven't been in their shoes and in their lives.

Quote:

---

how would you feel if your wife had a "confidant?" or how would you feel if your daughter was hooked up with somebody more than twice her age?

---

If my wife had a confidante who had her interests at heart and was able to make a difference in our marriage by being able to talk about and help resolve things that we may find difficult then I would see that as a positive force in our marriage.
I have gently suggested to my confidante some things that might improve the relationship with her husband over the time I've known her. I am not being ruled here by a lump in my pants, lets get that clear. And I'm not hooked up with her as you put it.

I suggest you read the thread again but carefully this time. My confidante isn't the 22 year old. There is a big age difference but I am not more than twice her age. If someone can benefit from another's different life experiences (especially if they are of a different generation and/or sex) and can do that without being judgemental then they have access to invaluable resources that they can decide the value of. Is that not what a forum like this is for, surely its NOT for the titillation of others.

Quote:

---

i feel bad for this girl. her best friends are her enemies and her enemies are her best friends. if i were you, i'd leave the poor girl alone. she obviously doesn't need all this drama.

---

This friendship came about over time through mutual respect, being non judgemental and extraordinary truthful communication. It was not initiated by me, I have not preyed on her. It was not initiated by her. It grew over time through increasing mutual trust. And lets get one thing clear, I am not pestering my confidante. Over the past two years she has come to me on many matters and I to her.
This situation is difficult enough without irrelevant input. I am not just a fair weather friend to her if that is the type of friendships you are used to.

Hey Straight, I'm a long-time married woman who has been in a situation where my best friend & I fell for each other during a period of emotional upheaval. We have been friends for over half our lives, almost 20 years; he's like family. No affair, but easily could have. So I think I may have a read on your situation.

Things are complicated and I feel for you. I haven't yet had time to read over all your posts but I will. I'm happy to explain how to avoid destroying your marriage but is that what you want? I don't know how to tell you to cheat or leave your wife for your 'soulmate' b/c that's not the path I chose to take.

Whatever you do, *think* hard, very hard, and try to avoid reacting to things emotionally. Hormones come and go & its easy to get caught up 'in the moment' unless you realize how very fleeting these things are.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ExpoNovak [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

It sounds like this woman's emotionality is far more tied up in this old affair than in you, no offense. Her love is all over the place. She's married but unhappy, the man she wants to be with will only be with her if she will make major changes in her life that she is scared to make and you are the one who hears all about it.

My opinion is simply that if she is in this much turmoil over the ex then the odds are stacked against you. I don't personally believe in loving more than one person at a time. Obviously this girl doesn't even love herself enough to extract herself from an unhappy marriage. My guess is that she has a deep-rooted need to be "loved" yet isn't that good at separating that many various types of love there are floating around in the world.

If she wrote you a letter and asked you to back off--do it. If you really care about her (and it sounds like you do) then do whatever you can to be her friend and help her get her life in order without becoming more emotionally involved than you have to. And for goodness' sakes if she starts to dig a hole don't jump into it with her. You who have never had an affair owe yourself and your wife that much at least.

---

Hi Exponovak,

Thanks for your reply.

I Know her emotionality is more tied up with the man of her old affair, no offence taken, I'm not deluded about that.
In one of my early emails to her I pointed out that we each knew where each other's heart truly lies and that it was not with
each other. Mine is with the woman I was 'in love' with those few years ago.

Yes the odds are stacked against me I know but I'm not after a full blown affair with her. Her relationship with her ex is ( as I understand it ) an impossibility for her and her turmoil is subsiding I think.

I do really care about her and I have taken a step back. Did so following her letter.

Actually I do believe that to platonically love several carefully chosen people is acceptable. Though I do not believe it is possible to be 'in love' with more than one person. Maybe she can't separate the many types of love, I'm wondering now whether I can though I always thought I could.

I'm under no illusion about her love, but we have been close for a long time.

As for not jumping into a deep hole with her we'll have to see. I know I mustn't fall in love with her but maybe I'm doing that though trying not too.

Soul mate stuff - that's different.

Thanks for your help.

It looks to me like you crush was looking at you more like a father figure. Sure, she may have experienced a moment or two of sexual curiosity, but overall, it doesn't sound like she is invested the way YOU are.

BTW - I am a long-time married woman, and if my husband wrote what you did about another woman, I'd be pissed. Not only are you overly emotionally involved with her, you are violating the privacy one normally expects from their spouse. I'd be humiliated. I bet your wife would be, too.

Maybe you should invest your time and energy into reconnecting to your wife. SHE is supposed to be your "soul mate" (if you believe in that sort of thing).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by straight&56 [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

While writing this I have had email notification of a new post to this thread from misombra.

Just to clarify this for misombra I have added what now follows.

I did not tell her the man had moved back locally again ( I wouldn't have had I known ) it was her friend ( as I described her ). That 'friend' is 22 years old, immature, single and thought it exciting to bring this news to her. How mistaken she was.
I have been aware of much of the detail regarding the affair and I can assure you that the ultimatum was not a 'crock of shit and he was ( not ) calling her bluff (correctly).'

If you have never been there in such a serious situation I respectfully suggest you withhold your judgemental comments.
I think many on this forum would testify that its easy to be judgemental in such situations when you haven't been in their shoes and in their lives.


If my wife had a confidante who had her interests at heart and was able to make a difference in our marriage by being able to talk about and help resolve things that we may find difficult then I would see that as a positive force in our marriage.
I have gently suggested to my confidante some things that might improve the relationship with her husband over the time I've known her. I am not being ruled here by a lump in my pants, lets get that clear. And I'm not hooked up with her as you put it.

I suggest you read the thread again but carefully this time. My confidante isn't the 22 year old. There is a big age difference but I am not more than twice her age. If someone can benefit from another's different life experiences (especially if they are of a different generation and/or sex) and can do that without being judgemental then they have access to invaluable resources that they can decide the value of. Is that not what a forum like this is for, surely its NOT for the titillation of others.



This friendship came about over time through mutual respect, being non judgemental and extraordinary truthful communication. It was not initiated by me, I have not preyed on her. It was not initiated by her. It grew over time through increasing mutual trust. And lets get one thing clear, I am not pestering my confidante. Over the past two years she has come to me on many matters and I to her.
This situation is difficult enough without irrelevant input. I am not just a fair weather friend to her if that is the type of friendships you are used to.

---

what a crock of shit. sorry, i don't believe that for a second.

anyway, if i were this girl i would quit my job and move far away.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by straight&56 [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

In one of my early emails to her I pointed out that we each knew where each other's heart truly lies and that it was not with each other. Mine is with the woman I was 'in love' with those few years ago.

---

So, then what *are* you doing, Straight?

I read through your posts rather carefully, and I don't see anywhere you stating what it is that YOU want. I suggest you spend some time rummaging around in those dark corners of your mind first, before involving anyone else. Some suggested questions you may want to ask yourself:

What do you believe about marriage?
What do you believe about happiness?
What do you believe about friendship?
Who are *you*, or who do you want to be, in relation to the above questions?

Figure out those answers *solidly* in your mind first and THEN proceed. You can't control anyone else's actions, remember, only your own.

BTW, regarding Miso's comments, not that she needs sticking up for, but I have found that she has a unique ability to distill issues down to their essential components. The experience isn't always pleasant, but then the truth rarely is. Especially when it comes from the anonymous internet & the poster has no vested interest in cushioning the truth.

She's right. Thus far in all your posts you haven't shown much concern at all for either of your spouses, which may mean something about your respective characters. From an outsider's viewpoint, we see a man possibly about to have an affair, without the decency to first end his marriage. With a woman who has *already* had an affair, and therefore a history of being unfaithful, yes?

thanks indi!

i see a man who doesn't really care about anyone but himself.

my father is only a little older that straight and i would be terrified if he was doing this kind of thing. butting into some young (MARRIED WITH CHILDREN) womans business to the point of wanting her to have another affair with him. yuck.

you should've named yourself "straight&56&nonethewiser."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vashti [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

It looks to me like you crush was looking at you more like a father figure. Sure, she may have experienced a moment or two of sexual curiosity, but overall, it doesn't sound like she is invested the way YOU are.

BTW - I am a long-time married woman, and if my husband wrote what you did about another woman, I'd be pissed. Not only are you overly emotionally involved with her, you are violating the privacy one normally expects from their spouse. I'd be humiliated. I bet your wife would be, too.

Maybe you should invest your time and energy into reconnecting to your wife. SHE is supposed to be your "soul mate" (if you believe in that sort of thing).

---

Thanks for your reply vashti

I think the first line of your reply may be exactly right. There being an initial sexual curiosity for her is probably it.
I too, to a degree and prior to recent events, saw her almost as a daughter figure but with the ability to talk about things I would never discus with my daughter.

I respect your comments regarding my remarks relating to this other woman and broadly speaking they are correct.
However I believe I have not violated my spouse's privacy. I am taking great care to remain unidentifiable in my posts here. In the strictest sense maybe that still constitutes a violation but surely that must happen a lot in a forum like this with people seeking help otherwise difficult situations would remain unresolved.
There's no doubt my wife would feel humiliated if she or I were identifiable and she knew of my posts.

Quote:

---

Maybe you should invest your time and energy into reconnecting to your wife. SHE is supposed to be your "soul mate" (if you believe in that sort of thing).

---

We are not disconnected but the connection should be better. Events over many years have caused a degree of separation, and those events relate to a variety of things from each party.
Ideally, I agree, she should be my soulmate but that is unlikely to happen, there are things that are unresolvable and we have tried though not recently.

Thanks again for your reply

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by straight&56 [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

However I believe I have not violated my spouse's privacy. I am taking great care to remain unidentifiable in my posts here. In the strictest sense maybe that still constitutes a violation but surely that must happen a lot in a forum like this with people seeking help otherwise difficult situations would remain unresolved.
There's no doubt my wife would feel humiliated if she or I were identifiable and she knew of my posts.

---

I wasn't actually referring to your posts on this forum. I was referring to the fact that you consider her your "confidante". Your posts clearly indicate she knows more about your life than your own wife does. You state that you "need" her, that you'd be "devastated" to see her go. You have obviously crossed the line of what is considered appropriate.

You wrote, "If my wife had a confidante who had her interests at heart and was able to make a difference in our marriage by being able to talk about and help resolve things that we may find difficult then I would see that as a positive force in our marriage."

This to me looks like justification for a highly improper emotional attachment on your part. Somehow I seriously doubt your wife would see this younger woman as a "positive force" in your marriage, especially given your level of attachment to her.

damn that straight guy thanked like 8 people... i don't feel special anymore.

raverboy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IndiReloaded [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

So, then what *are* you doing, Straight?

I read through your posts rather carefully, and I don't see anywhere you stating what it is that YOU want. I suggest you spend some time rummaging around in those dark corners of your mind first, before involving anyone else. Some suggested questions you may want to ask yourself:

What do you believe about marriage?
What do you believe about happiness?
What do you believe about friendship?
Who are *you*, or who do you want to be, in relation to the above questions?

Figure out those answers *solidly* in your mind first and THEN proceed. You can't control anyone else's actions, remember, only your own.

---

Thanks for your reply indireloaded,

Your question rightly deserves an answer.

My confidante knows the events and details of the person I was 'in love' with a few years ago and as I previously said she gave me valuable emotional support on that over quite a period. I am not 'in love' with that other person now though I do have strong feelings for her. My confidante knows that and I've not hidden it from her which is what someone would do if trying to initiate a full blown affair with my confidante. My confidante and I talked about it only a few months ago and I accepted a couple of years ago that nothing is likely to come of it. She too is someone I'd known for years and not a short term acquaintance.

In answer to your 'what are you doing' then I guess the best way to explain is this.

In response to circumstances applying at the time ( she might leave ) I had to say something to my confidante regarding my thoughts about her.
I went too far and this was a mistake I made.
Our platonic relationship previous to this was exceptional.
We both, to different degrees, responded to what had been said between us.
We both had doubts.
Neither of us wanted the upheaval of a full on affair.
We both want to recover our relationship to its previous stable, trusting and platonic state but we have to give it time.

Quote:

---

What do you believe about marriage?
What do you believe about happiness?
What do you believe about friendship?
Who are *you*, or who do you want to be, in relation to the above questions?

Figure out those answers *solidly* in your mind first and THEN proceed. You can't control anyone else's actions, remember, only your own.

---

I believe marriage should be the closest you ever get to someone but that at times situations can arrise that cause a distancing. Sometimes if those situations are not resolved as they happen they will become compounded ( as in my case ). On those occasions, the only persons you can talk to the situation about face to face is someone you are close to and trust. I will be honest here and admit that I havn't talked to my confidante a great deal on the root causes of my marriage problems. I have talked about some. I have also talked to my older sister about some of them a few years ago. I don't necasarily belive marriage should be for life though I do believe that is the ideal.

I believe happiness in many aspects of life is a varying thing and can change for no apparent reason at times. I believe you have to count to ten and evaluate again.

Ideally I believe friendship has several levels.
1/. As in an acquaintance at, lets say, work where neither wishes the other any harm and helps each other most of the time.
2/. As a slightly closer friend with whom you can talk about some superficial personal things and respect that any opinions they give are given in good faith.
3/. As a much closer and trusted friend with whom you could talk about almost anything and know they would give true opinion, warts and all, and knowing they were not risking that friendship.
4/. As a spouse, this should be your best friend.

As for your last question I'm having to think hard about that.

Indie you are realy drawing the answers from me here and I won't avoid the questions but it is difficult.
And I DO appreciate it.

Just to be clear I am not trying to control my confidant's actions. She has free choice and to pressure her would definitely be counter-productive and wrong. I would not be able to control her actions anyway, she is not without strong resolve - in our employment we supervise up to 25, often difficult men, and she can hold her own.

Thanks again

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by straight&56 [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Just to be clear I am not trying to control my confidant's actions. She has free choice and to pressure her would definitely be counter-productive and wrong.

---

Not what I meant. Am referring to the fact that you need to make your decision about things, like your marriage, etc. independent of your friend and whatever decision she may make about things. Make your choices for your reasons, not based on what someone else may or may not do.

Check your PM.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vashti [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I wasn't actually referring to your posts on this forum. I was referring to the fact that you consider her your "confidante". Your posts clearly indicate she knows more about your life than your own wife does. You state that you "need" her, that you'd be "devastated" to see her go. You have obviously crossed the line of what is considered appropriate.

You wrote, "If my wife had a confidante who had her interests at heart and was able to make a difference in our marriage by being able to talk about and help resolve things that we may find difficult then I would see that as a positive force in our marriage."

This to me looks like justification for a highly improper emotional attachment on your part. Somehow I seriously doubt your wife would see this younger woman as a "positive force" in your marriage, especially given your level of attachment to her.

---

Replying to each paragraph of your post.

Par 1/. Sorry, I misinterpreted your initial reply re spouse's privacy.

Yes my friend does know more about certain things in my life than my wife does.
By the way it was my friend who first used the word confidante in referring to our friendship, and not me.
The need I speak of is a need for her as my confidante - we have been able to talk about almost anything of a personal nature.
I wonder how many married people can say that in truth about their spouse. Ideally that's how it should be but in the real world I doubt that it is all of the time. In the ideal world our friendship is inappropriate but in the real world I think it is less so.

Pars 2 & 3/. You could well be right that I'm seeking self justification though not intentionally.
My wife and I would have to have a deep understanding if she were not to consider my friend a threat. We don't have a deep understanding on that level.
My wife is unaware that my friend even exists and is therefore not aware of the emotional attachment we have. Similarly my friends husband is in the same position.

To have a friend like this with whom there is such good communication I think is extremely rare. Especially considering the age difference and that we are the opposite sex. Putting recent complexities aside I feel very lucky. I could never talk to a man in the way we have - it's not a 'man' thing to do that - men rarely talk about such deeply personal matters together.

My understanding is that women often do pour their heart out to female friends so how can the spouse's privacy be maintained in a case like that.

Not too long ago ( 3 - 4 months I guess ) when my friend brought up a particularly delicate subject I asked her if she had a close and trusted female friend she could talk to about it. I also asked if there was a trusted male friend who might be able to help. Of her female friends she said it was too personal for her to even breach the subject. Of her other male friends they are all friends in common with her husband.
I asked her this being aware that I had to be real careful how much closer we would be getting in talking about it.
She had nowhere else to go and we talked. I was going to say that I had no choice but that's not true, I had - I could have said sorry I can't help you on that, work it out for yourself ( ie: I'm only your fair weather friend ). Obviously I didn't - we've breached really difficult subjects before without problem.

If the women following this thread had been in need of such help ( IE: been exactly in her place ) themselves what would they have wanted me to do in relation to their problem.
It's easy to be judgemental when it involves someone else but what if it had been you.

Just a thought.

Are there any males following this thread besides me?

Have you had similar experiences?

It's a serious thread so lets not have any graphic sexual comments please.

What do you think?

Just wondered

straight&56

huh?? well i was following thread up until you started to thank everyone...

also these are some damn ass long posts...

raverboy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by straight&56 [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

If the women following this thread had been in need of such help ( IE: been exactly in her place ) themselves what would they have wanted me to do in relation to their problem.
It's easy to be judgemental when it involves someone else but what if it had been you.

Just a thought.

---

i have been there. i've been on most sides of the situation.

you are wrong. you need to just stop pretending like it's not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by straight&56 [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

My wife is unaware that my friend even exists and is therefore not aware of the emotional attachment we have. Similarly my friends husband is in the same position.

---

Since you both feel the need to keep it secret, it is obviously wrong.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by straight&56 [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I could never talk to a man in the way we have - it's not a 'man' thing to do that - men rarely talk about such deeply personal matters together.

---

I know men who have profoundly deep connections. I think you should look a little harder.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by straight&56 [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

My understanding is that women often do pour their heart out to female friends so how can the spouse's privacy be maintained in a case like that.

---

You aren't female. Men and women (unless they are gay) will always harbor some level of sexual interest. This is why they shouldn't attempt to be friends in the same way same-gender friends are.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by straight&56 [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

She had nowhere else to go and we talked. I was going to say that I had no choice but that's not true, I had - I could have said sorry I can't help you on that, work it out for yourself ( ie: I'm only your fair weather friend ).

---

Interesting you frame this as simply being a loyal friend... I would have considered your stepping back as drawing appropriate boundaries. Anyway, if her problems are so severe, it seems she should have spoken to a professional therapist or clergy person.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by straight&56 [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

If the women following this thread had been in need of such help ( IE: been exactly in her place ) themselves what would they have wanted me to do in relation to their problem.
It's easy to be judgemental when it involves someone else but what if it had been you.

Just a thought.

---

Hmm... I can't imagine confiding my marital problems to a man 25 years older than me. I would have gone to a professional because I value my privacy. Interesting how people choose to address problems differently, don't you think?

Yesterday and today we shared shifts together, 14 hours in total. First time in over 9 weeks.

Yesterday we were very awkward in each other's company and we spoke only when necessary. I felt awful.

I was inclined to phone in sick today but I didn't.

We spoke a little more today, only superficially, and the awkwardness was less though we are not gravitating to each other as before.

I'll be on shift again with her on Friday. Another 7 hours.

Hope we can get through this and repair our platonic confidantes status, will take some time I guess.

straight&56

Would you be okay with just drifting off into your separate directions?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gigabitch [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Would you be okay with just drifting off into your separate directions?

---

I have thought about this as possibly the best thing to do.

I took steps to work elsewhere a few weeks ago ( same employer ) with the option to still work at her location.
My original intention was not to return to her place of work and when I read your post 'don't cut her out, she may be more emotionally involved than even she knows' I decided to still do occasional work at her location.
The option to work exclusively at the other location is not yet fully in force, takes some time.
She doesn't have the option to easily relocate like I do so it was up to me to do something.

I have been as low as I could possibly be regarding this and maybe this is the best time to implement that change and a break. I just can't imagine though her not being there to talk to about confidante things though she is not there at present.

Recently, but before these problems, she said how she nearly rang me at home one time when she was feeling very low on a particular problem. She didn't ring worrying what my wife would think about the resulting long conversation with a woman from work. But she told me about it a few days later.

We used to talk about almost anything including many marriage problems, current fancies ( not to follow up ).
How can we do that now, now she knows how I feel. I couldn't say to her 'Oh sutchabody, she's lovely' - she couldn't tell me about her husband problems now. We did these things only within the past few months without problem. But now?

I've ruined the best friendship I ever had, but at the time I seemed to have no choice in the matter, I had to tell her how I felt - there was no choice in the circumstances - that's what it's like for a man.

Recently, as I often do, I went to the BBC's web site and found a link to 'what sex is your brain' - it was a test to complete and I wondered about me, try it.
I took the test and printed out the result, turns out I'm 100% male brain and the average for men taking the test is much, much less. But that doesn't help me one bit.

I told my wife about the test and showed her the printout. Maybe with thoughts of proving that I am a normal male so I can be excused this current situation.
No I don't really intent to tell her about it at the moment but who knows in future.
I need help from somewhere and this forum has helped a lot.

I will be working with her again on Friday and think I might try a humorous breach of the awkwardnesses. Our relationship always had an injection of humour in the past though not recently.

We'll see won't we

Thanks

Just thought.
Maybe I should just say I've ruined the best friendship I ever had.
Maybe then she'll understand.
I know platonic is the only way to go.

I'm feeling like such a sad bastard now.

sorry. things will get better.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by misombra [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

sorry. things will get better.

---

Yes I know they will mis, it's just the time up until they do.
I've got through worse before though.

I've wondered whether parts of our good communication were just an ego boost for both of us. It certainly plays with one's emotions though even if it was.

I hope anyone reading this thread will be wary of risking a good, opposite sex, platonic friendship in circumstances like these.
It seems to me that no matter how well you get on, as we did, you are seriously risking that friendship, probably for always.
And a good, opposite sex, platonic friend/confidant has an extraordinary value.

As an aside I notice the timestamps on my postings are way off the times I make the postings. Probably due to the geographic location of the server. I'm not up through the night posting here as the timestamps may suggest. It's 20:20 hrs Thursday at the moment. Oh and yes tomorrow is Friday - now I'm sure there's something I have to do - not quite decided what yet though!!

Maybe being that the thread is so long it should be moved from the 'INTRODUCTION' zone.

Thanks to all and take care - mostly of your heart.

straight&56

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by straight&56 [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Recently, but before these problems, she said how she nearly rang me at home one time when she was feeling very low on a particular problem. She didn't ring worrying what my wife would think about the resulting long conversation with a woman from work. But she told me about it a few days later.

---

I think if you're doing something you have to hide, you should ask yourself if it's anywhere as innocent as you're trying to make it seem.

The word "platonic" doesn't actually describe your relationship with this woman.

I've said it before: friends don't **** because they don't want to.

I think you should acknowledge the sexual tension that has existed between you and this woman and stop calling her your "friend". She is not your friend. Friends can call each other on the phone.

Hi Giga,

Yes I acknowledge there has been sexual tension, but only the past few weeks. It hasn't been that way all the time we've been confidantes.
She had given cause in some things she had said and done during the past few weeks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by straight&56 [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

As an aside I notice the timestamps on my postings are way off the times I make the postings. Probably due to the geographic location of the server. I'm not up through the night posting here as the timestamps may suggest. It's 20:20 hrs Thursday at the moment.

---

Erm that should have been 22:20 hrs. Yes I am in the UK.

Straight, check your PM (click on 'private messages'). I sent you something some time ago that you haven't read yet. Its relevant.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IndiReloaded [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Straight, check your PM (click on 'private messages'). I sent you something some time ago that you haven't read yet. Its relevant.

---

Thanks Indi.

I have read them now.

Off to work soon

Straight&56

Well I saw her at work yesterday ( Friday ) for a short time.

It was difficult because I was moved at the start of the shift to another department where someone had phoned in sick.
I would normally have been in the same department as her all day.
I popped up to see her a couple of times but there were others about at those times so passed her without saying anything.
I had a letter prepared in response to the letter she gave me a while ago, I knew it would be unlikely we would have private time to talk and probably neither of us would have wanted to anyway at the moment. We are still both a bit angry though it has lessened.
Her letter to me said how she wasn't interested and we needed to have some time with no contact. She wrote it in anger.

My letter to her explained that I was moving to another location ( same employer a few miles away ) for the foreseeable future to meet her request for no contact for a while. She knows that if I wish I can take shifts at her location in the future.

Now because of the difficulty I expected in giving her the letter ( she'd almost certainly refuse to take it ) I had not put it in an envelope intending to put it on her desk with a little bit of LARGE PRINT showing the content.
On the third occasion I went to see her I held out my hand holding the letter but with the large print NOT showing and she took it without problem and I left straight away back to the other department.

Now this is very confusing because I was sure she would refuse to take it.
Then I would have just put it on her desk with the large print showing and left, she would have to pick it up if she didn't want anyone else to see it.

Much as I didn't really want to do it my letter to her also points out a couple of the things she had said and done as her invitation to become closer.
These were explicit ( I don't mean sexually ) things not in her normal speech or behaviour patterns. I didn't point out all the things, that would have been very unkind, but I offered to.
The things I did point out were explicit enough to leave her in no doubt of their obvious perceived intent.

I also said I would mostly be avoiding her shifts until I move to the other location. I have left just a couple of common shifts in force for a couple of weeks time ( she's able to check when they are ).

In my letter I ended by saying I was at the point of cut and run but was undecided.
I also said I was sure she would find someone else to confide with who would care.
I said that I thought we had always been honest with each other ( I'm sure she knows we have ) - implying she wasn't being honest now.

So the ball is in her court now.
If she doesn't play it we loose contact for good because I then wouldn't take shifts at her location in the future.

Maybe I should have said let's declare a truce here. Hindsight.

We need to defuse this tension and get back to how we were 3 months ago but I don't know if we ever could.

I wanted to tell her how much I would miss her if I left for good but I didn't.

So it's back to the waiting game now for about 2 weeks.

Saturday morning something hit me like a thunderbolt regarding these types of thing in general. Maybe it relates to this too.
It's very difficult to describe and put into words but I'll probably try in a new thread on a different part of the forum.

If this thread has started to get boring please do tell me but I hope the experience would help others, someone told me it riveting to read.

straight&56