Embarrassed towards girls

Hi. I have a problem when talking to girls. My problem is that when a girl approaches towards me to have a chat, i immediately get embarrassed, my chicks start to turn red. And now i love a girl, and i want to tell her i have feelings for her, and when she says i have feelings for you too, we will sit down and talk, and i think that i am going to be embarrassed in front of the whole school, because i have this problem when talking to a random girl, so i stay away from girls, which i don't like it, but i must do that, so that i won't be humiliated. So, i want from you guys to give me some good advice regarding my problem.
Thanks

Start small. Force yourself to say hello to a girl, for starters, and go from there. The best way to get over fear and/or embarrassment is by gradual exposure. No matter what we tell you, you're not going to just be able to easily jump in and confidently confess your feelings to the girl you like--so start with the small stuff. You're thinking of girls as female first, people second. But it's the other way--girls /are/ just people. Slightly different than guys, I'll admit, but still the same basic stuff. You're not going to make a fool out of yourself. A lot of girls I know find a certain amount of shyness rather adorable--but that doesn't change the fact that you're going to have to jump into it, eventually. And when you don't know how to swim, it's a lot easier to start out by jumping into the shallow end.

moonchild is right. take it easy, i was just the same back in my early years in secondary school. girls just caused a fear of embarrassed. i got over it. its slow and u will feel embarrassed but just push yourself. just tackle it again and again, and u will just gain confidence. they are just people, i actually found after i got over my avoidance of girls that i actually preferred there company. now most of my friends are girls, its weird how things turn out. i have used some personal experience. just go and do it, grit ur teeth (not literally ofc ;) ) and dive in.

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Originally Posted by sevag00 [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

And now i love a girl, and i want to tell her i have feelings for her, and when she says i have feelings for you too, we will sit down and talk, and i think that i am going to be embarrassed in front of the whole school

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that's not going to happen, at least not in that order.

girls will never ever ever tell you that they have feelings for you before they know that you have feelings for them, and possibly hear you say it first. if you're waiting for her to say that she likes you first, you'll be waiting forever because it's not going to happen.

so then it's pretty clear why you're feeling shy. as a guy, i guess you're pretty much stuck having to tell the girl how you feel first; it probably sucks but that's the way things are (i'm not going to say something retarded like; "would you like to trade childbirth for it instead" because that's not a fair comparison and the two are unrelated). you have some reason to be nervous since you're stuck in the position of not knowing if the girl likes you or not.

for girls it's not really a problem. we play games and find out pretty quickly, especially during highschool. all we have to do is find out when you're going to be hanging out with your friends and ask to meet up during "that" time, making you have to pick between them or us. stuff like that tells us all we need to know, so we know how you feel about us way before you tell us.

so your dilema as a guy is not knowing the girl you like actually feels the same way. don't take this the wrong way, but as kids, you'll never be able to tell. girls will simply always be 3 or 4 steps ahead of you. so you shouldn't feel nervous, because there's really nothing you can do about it. talking to her friends will give it away, "because they're her friends, and when you're done talking, even if you tell them to not tell, they're going to go and tell her".

the best thing to do is just give it a shot. but in order to do that, you have to get over that nervousness you have. so start talking to girls, any girls. i think the more you talk, the more comfortable you'll be. and then, you can start talking to girls you actually like. and eventually, you won't feel nervous and you'll be able to tell someone that you like them.

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Originally Posted by v0ndutch [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

that's not going to happen, at least not in that order.

girls will never ever ever tell you that they have feelings for you before they know that you have feelings for them, and possibly hear you say it first. if you're waiting for her to say that she likes you first, you'll be waiting forever because it's not going to happen.

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Yes, i know girls will never tell me or somebody else that they have feelings for me. But i said when i tell her i have feelings for you, then she might also tell me that i have feelings for you too

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for girls it's not really a problem. we play games and find out pretty quickly, especially during highschool. all we have to do is find out when you're going to be hanging out with your friends and ask to meet up during "that" time, making you have to pick between them or us. stuff like that tells us all we need to know, so we know how you feel about us way before you tell us.

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If you find out that quickly, i bet she never find out yet, even though my friends do some jokes on me, like if the teacher calls her, they shout towards me "go and help her". And even if she knew i like her, things wil be very different in class. I look at her all the time, and she never smiles to me.

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so your dilema as a guy is not knowing the girl you like actually feels the same way. don't take this the wrong way, but as kids, you'll never be able to tell. girls will simply always be 3 or 4 steps ahead of you. so you shouldn't feel nervous, because there's really nothing you can do about it. talking to her friends will give it away, "because they're her friends, and when you're done talking, even if you tell them to not tell, they're going to go and tell her".

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I know that, if i tell one of her friends, that i love her, and even thought she tells me it will be kept secret, i don't trust her, the secret will be swept all around the school. I have only told to my friends about it.

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Originally Posted by sevag00 [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Yes, i know girls will never tell me or somebody else that they have feelings for me. But i said when i tell her i have feelings for you, then she might also tell me that i have feelings for you too

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No. You don't understand. It's not that you're so pathetic that a girl will never tell you she has feelings for you too. It's that this romantic fantasy that's developed in your mind where she confesses her undying love to you right there is completely unrealistic.

It's like walking up to a stranger and saying "I love you.", and expecting it in return. They'll think you're a weirdo.

How old are you?

You can't be older than 13.

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Originally Posted by sevag00 [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

If you find out that quickly, i bet she never find out yet, even though my friends do some jokes on me, like if the teacher calls her, they shout towards me "go and help her". And even if she knew i like her, things wil be very different in class. I look at her all the time, and she never smiles to me.

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that being said, I think she already knows.. sorry to break your heart..

the fact that she's not looking at you (most likely) means she doesn't like you and doesn't want to give you attention so that she doesn't make a fool of herself around the class and her friends.. but.. (at best case means) she never smiles to you because she doesn't know yet..

if I was a girl.. and some guy friends shouted to a guy in class "go help her".. (it's pretty obvious what's going on).. not to mention if the guy (you) starts to blush, act shy, and says "no, it's ok" and then sits back down.. dead give away.. girls in HS don't need a golden letter sealed in blood to confirm that you like them.. YOU, maybe need that.. but girls, not really..

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Originally Posted by Frasbee [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

No. You don't understand. It's not that you're so pathetic that a girl will never tell you she has feelings for you too. It's that this romantic fantasy that's developed in your mind where she confesses her undying love to you right there is completely unrealistic.

It's like walking up to a stranger and saying "I love you.", and expecting it in return. They'll think you're a weirdo.

How old are you?

You can't be older than 13.

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I know what you mean, you may have understood my previous post wrong.
I am 17 years old. When i was 13, i didn't even think of loving a girl in school.

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Originally Posted by GrkScorp [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

that being said, I think she already knows.. sorry to break your heart..

the fact that she's not looking at you (most likely) means she doesn't like you and doesn't want to give you attention so that she doesn't make a fool of herself around the class and her friends.. but.. (at best case means) she never smiles to you because she doesn't know yet..

if I was a girl.. and some guy friends shouted to a guy in class "go help her".. (it's pretty obvious what's going on).. not to mention if the guy (you) starts to blush, act shy, and says "no, it's ok" and then sits back down.. dead give away.. girls in HS don't need a golden letter sealed in blood to confirm that you like them.. YOU, maybe need that.. but girls, not really..

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What i meant was not shouting. My friends sit next to me in class, and her friends also sit next to me and her, i.e. we all sit next to each other, they don't shout the second the teacher calls her, that would be very obvious, they shout in a low voice when she has reached besides the teacher. I guess, her friends should know by now i love her, and if they knew, they would've asked me "do you really love her?", and i didn't get a single question from them.

Your obsession is not love, fool.

What do you mean?

He means you can't be in love yet... you haven't had time to establish a proper relationship. You are experiencing a crush.

Dating is all about numbers. If you ask enough girls out, one will eventually say yes. I don't know if this girl will go out with you or not, but you certainly won't find out until you ask. I do not think you should spill your heart to her, though. Just chat with her a bit, and if conversation goes well, ask her if she'd like to go catch a movie or something.

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Originally Posted by Frasbee [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Your obsession is not love, fool.

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Quoted for Truth

Pwnt! He is right though.

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Originally Posted by vashti [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

He means you can't be in love yet... you haven't had time to establish a proper relationship. You are experiencing a crush.

Dating is all about numbers. If you ask enough girls out, one will eventually say yes. I don't know if this girl will go out with you or not, but you certainly won't find out until you ask. I do not think you should spill your heart to her, though. Just chat with her a bit, and if conversation goes well, ask her if she'd like to go catch a movie or something.

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That is exactly what i am going to do, i've made up my mind. I am going to tell her i have feeling for you, then if she agrees to talk with me, then a few weeks later i will ask her to go out with me to catch a movie. That's the only thing i can do, in order not to lose her.

NOOO!!! Do NOT tell her you have feelings for her! You will scare her away! Don't you see? It is inappropriate for you to confess feelings for her at this point. You have a crush, hun... I know the feeling can be overwhelming, but this is all it is at this point.

You MUST play it cool, and pretend she is nothing more than a girl you have mild interest in. Have a NORMAL conversation with her. if the conversation goes well, then ask her to a movie. DO NOT tell her you have feelings for her until you have gone out on SEVERAL DATES... at least 6 or so. You must be relatively sure she has some level of interest in you before you tell her of your feelings, or she will think you are a creep.

You know what the problem is, she is not a girl, i met her on the street, she is just a girl from my class. If the Americans do it the way you mentioned, don't think that the Lebanese people do the same. I can do the talking with her, but i cannot tell her to catch a movie with me for no reason. I gotta tell her i have a crush on you, and i wanna know you a little bit better, then a few weeks later i can plan a date.

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Originally Posted by sevag00 [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

You know what the problem is, she is not a girl, i met her on the street, she is just a girl from my class. If the Americans do it the way you mentioned, don't think that the Lebanese people do the same. I can do the talking with her, but i cannot tell her to catch a movie with me for no reason. I gotta tell her i have a crush on you, and i wanna know you a little bit better, then a few weeks later i can plan a date.

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i'll give you my 2-cents about the whole idea.. and ladies.. please feel free to bombard with follow-up comments..

when you tell a girl you just met and happen to like.. "I have a crush on you, so i'd like to get to know you better.. how bout a movie date later on during the week"? it translates into something totally different..

think about this for a second.. put yourself in her shoes.. (it's totally different).. she has no idea how you feel.. and she may not even like you.. so.. all of a sudden.. someone comes up to you and tells you that they have a crush on you.. what is the first thing that fires through your mind?

"he likes me? a crush on me? what does that even mean? he doesn't even know me! so what does he like exactly? oh! he likes how I look. eww.. I know what he's thinking then... umm.. no! how do I escape this.." before you know it.. like vash said.. you've thrown the girl into a panic..

the last thing you want to do.. even when you both grow up and are more mature about the whole dating thing.. you don't want to say something like that right off the bat..

learn to be indirect.. (indirect)!!! there's alot more you're saying to a girl when you say "are you doing anything on the weekend? me and so&so are going to see this movie if you wanna come".. you imply and suggest plenty about the way you feel.. and yet, nothing is 100% certain, so it preserved the mystery needed to keep tension high and her interest in you going..

I know.. I know.. you want a date alone.. not with other people.. simple.. (so & so couldn't make it..) well, what do you know.. now it's just you and her.. problem solved.. (bonus? yeah.. she might have not even come if you told her it was going to be just you and her.. because of fear.. so in a way.. you may have to trick her.. but it'll give you a chance to let her feel comfortable around you, and then go out for something to eat later, joke around about the movie "preferably a romantic comedy".. not a good idea to see anything else if it's your first time..)

so.. moral of the story.. start being indirect.. smooth.. and when you're alone.. try to think about the hidden meanings of indirect messages you're sending.. the question should be.. "how can I say I like you.. without saying I like you"? if you learn to do this.. you're all set..

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Originally Posted by sevag00 [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

You know what the problem is, she is not a girl, i met her on the street, she is just a girl from my class. If the Americans do it the way you mentioned, don't think that the Lebanese people do the same. I can do the talking with her, but i cannot tell her to catch a movie with me for no reason. I gotta tell her i have a crush on you, and i wanna know you a little bit better, then a few weeks later i can plan a date.

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Yeah, I can't say I am aware of the dating protocols in Lebanon. Most of the posters here are American or European.

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Originally Posted by vashti [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Yeah, I can't say I am aware of the dating protocols in Lebanon. Most of the posters here are American or European.

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awww.. poor Canadians.. no place for them.. : (

Ok GrkScorp, i agree with you. What is the first thing i should do with this girl? How to start talking with her?

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Originally Posted by sevag00 [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

What is the first thing i should do with this girl? How to start talking with her?

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You have class with her, right? Well, there you go. Just make conversation about the class, that's the easiest place to start. It seems to me that you're making this much more complicated than it actually is.

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Originally Posted by sevag00 [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Hi. I have a problem when talking to girls. My problem is that when a girl approaches towards me to have a chat, i immediately get embarrassed, my chicks start to turn red. And now i love a girl, and i want to tell her i have feelings for her, and when she says i have feelings for you too, we will sit down and talk, and i think that i am going to be embarrassed in front of the whole school, because i have this problem when talking to a random girl, so i stay away from girls, which i don't like it, but i must do that, so that i won't be humiliated. So, i want from you guys to give me some good advice regarding my problem.
Thanks

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Just MAN UP.

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Originally Posted by sevag00 [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Ok GrkScorp, i agree with you. What is the first thing i should do with this girl? How to start talking with her?

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well, take a second, when you're home alone.. to analyze the situation.. what do I mean?

- Is she single? most likely yes, or else you wouldn't be talking about her..
- This is useful information.. I like to call it the pretty-woman complex.. where you have stunning woman.. who gets compliments like "you're stunning, you're beautiful, you're hot" all the time.. and she's still single.. why? because these obviously don't work..
- The way the memory works is by referencing.. it places things in groups whether we like it or not.. not to stir up any bad feelings, but this is largely why racism exists.. (i'm not talking about HATE racism, i'm talking about fear and stereotype racsim).. for instance.. you see someone Black (example), and as much as you want to deny it externally.. your mind is reaching statistical conclusions (most likely poor, most likely a bad student, most likely dangerous).. it is because the media plays this up.. (but that's a whole different story)..
- Why is this important? because it's how women group men.. She's most likely met a couple of losers who couldn't resist but to tell her how great she looks.. and by now, that's a turn-off.. which is why she's still single.. because this method is obviously not working.. If you want to stand out.. you need to try something different and avoid being labeled a loser in her mind..

You need to present yourself as DIFFERENT from the rest of the guys.. imply the bad traits of the other guys.. and suggest (indirectly) that you don't have any of those bad traits.. but before you go there.. be unique.. make a monopoly..

Other guys can't stop telling her how great she looks.. but she probably never gets to hear how smart/creative/compasionate/sensitive/thoughtful/kind/ blah blah blah she is.. the point is.. this is basic flattery.. which works by stimulating the pre-frontal cortex.. which is responsible for perception of (self).. she's NUMB to hearing she looks good, so this has little or no effect..

Further to this science of flirting.. is tapping inter her primative instincts.. work with her subconcious.. and MAKE her fall in love with you.. How?

Simple.. girls get two types of guys looking at them.. 1. guys who want sex (they get nervous, afraid, they smell of it, and it reaks from a mile away).. 2. guys who have feelings for these girls and are falling in love with them.. (they are relaxed, happy, excited, etc.)

but the most important feature of type-2 is the way they look (the eyes).. it's all in the eyes.. they have a warmth to them, an energy.. a sexy and seductive one.. one that says "I know what you're thinking, but i'll continue to play this game.. I know you want me, and I hope it's not too long until you know I feel the same".. (that's non-verbal) and it's conveyed through the eyes..

you can work on it.. but it normally comes naturally.. go to a mirror and relax your eyes.. give them a natural, sweet, warm, inviting look.. it looks one step above friendly..

so finally! what to do? well.. you take a class with her.. so you are in a prime position to talk to her.. DO NOT SIT NEXT TO HER IN CLASS! most women get scared and she may label you as NEEDY or a STALKER in her mind.. sit a seat or two away.. and NEVER let you know that you like her..

talk to her.. and when you do.. hold eye contact.. don't look down.. be confident.. (it sounds cliche' but it's the best advice you'll ever get).. give her the warm natural look.. after all, you have feelings for her.. and it's more than sex for you.. you have to start small..

1. friendly..casual humor
2 casual humor.. suggestive communication
3. casual humor.. flirting
4. flirting.. friendly.. ask her to meet up and hang out..
5. hang out.. friendly.. flirty.. warm.. relaxed.. confident..
6. hang out.. confident.. relaxed.. friendly.. CHARM

charm is where you start to go beyond flirting.. and start to hint at how you may feel about her.. keeping her on her toes.. not fully letting her know.. letting her slowly work her way around the mystery..

I'll get back to you on this one.. I have to run to class.. :)

Wow, class was called off.. thank-you winter!

anyway.. ah yes! charm!..

you should make an effort to always be charming.. it's an art.. and like music and painting.. should be practiced regularly.. every day!

when you talk to her.. you have to have the right attitude.. not arrogant.. not nervous.. in the middle.. CONFIDENT..

confidence is sexy.. for one reason.. because of the message it sends.. and what it implies! It implies many things.. (that you're an alpha-male, that you're sure of yourself and your qualities, that you don't question your abilities and looks, that you have something to offer her, etc.) all of this is radiated off to other people when you're confident..

so.. here's the final gameplan..

you have class with her.. every other day in class.. (not every day.. skip a day).. tell her "hey" and smile.. that's it! occasionally.. say stuff like "you look different, what did you do? your hair.." or "did you get new shoes, I never saw you wear those before"... (It shows her you pay attention and that you notice the small things)..

now.. the game really start after class is over.. face-to-face.. I don't care how much you talk on AIM, TELL HER (don't ask, tell).. "hey, "we" are all going to go to (fill in place here).. you should come, it'll be fun".. before I talk about why this works.. let me tell you the tragedy that guys make.. "what are you doing next weekend.. think about it and let me know next time.. do you want to come?" (all of these leave open the option for a NO or an excuse).. so your chances are dramatically decreased.. what you are offering is a (friendly) hang-out.. to get to know her outside the classroom.. (the purpose is to get to know her better.. and feel more comfortable with eachother).. plus it implies you have friends and that you're normally outgoing..

so.. you arrange this get-together.. try to keep the group small.. (if you're not up for a full-out 1-on-1.. actually call 1 or 2 friends of yours to come along "make sure they are not idiots and won't blow your whole encounter".. try to avoid ugly girls comming along.. (notties are not hotties.. which are jealous of hotties, and will cockblock you to the grave)

on the encounter.. it's your chance to get to know her.. but more importantly.. work your charm.. (this has less to do with your mouth or what you say..).. it has everything to do with your eyes and the way you act.. when someone is talking.. or when she is talking.. look at her.. into her eyes with that warm friendly and inviting look.. when someone says something.. look at her 1/2 or 1/3 of the time.. and make sure you keep eye-contact.. don't be shy.. don't be cocky.. be confident! you want to show her that SHE is more interesting than anything someone else is saying.. and that when SHE is speaking that you are listening (and can process information quickly enough and understand her that you don't need to look away, process, and then look back).. this eye-technique is key!

then, use your eyes and keep your lips slightly open and relaxed.. let her eyes reach your lips.. and then back up.. when they come back up.. give a slow warm smile.. to suggest you knew exactly what she was looking at..

some more general tips.. (wear really nice shoes (not too formal, not sneakers).. women notice shoes at the very begining when they are checking out a guy.. and if they don't like what they see.. few will move along to check out the rest).. so make a good impression.. Smell nice.. and look nice..(don't over do it.. but pick something that smells nice and spray yourself no more than twice on the neck).. deodorant is a must.. and shower.. wash your hair twice.. brush your teeth well and carry mints.. clip your nails.. wash your hands.. and put some moisturizer on them 1 hour before you go on the date.. then wash it off be4 you leave..

you want to present yourself well.. but at the same time.. as if this is naturally you.. and that it's not too calculated.. (so, not TOO much cologne, not too formal with the shoes, hands feel normal like nothing has been on them, but soft.. clean.. well groomed).. all this says VOLUMES about you.. and gives a great impression..

next.. content doesn't matter that much.. but you DO have to talk about something.. please.. keep the subject as far away from YOU as you can.. don't go on & on about what YOU like.. what YOU do.. ask casual relaxed questions.. get to know HER.. and talk about abstract creative topics.. (astrology, mythology, the future, dreams, hopes, etc.) do NOT talk about math, science, etc.. unless she is actively talking about it and is interested in it deeply..

don't reveal TOO much information.. mystery builds tension.. tension builds interest.. interest builds feelings... so if you take the mystery out of the chain.. the rest of it will never occur.. so.. when asked a question.. answer that question.. a little more.. and then move onto something else or ask her something else.. DO NOT give your autobiography in one date.. that's very unattractive..

then, use some tricks, if you can remember to use them.. i'll let you in on a basic one.. the double-a (AA) stands for Argue & Agree... this is how it works.. Women don't like it when you agree with everything they say.. it makes you look spineless-weak-unattractive.. but they don't like it when you have TOO strong of an opinion, and you argue to the end until things are your way.. so instead.. you can reach a middle ground and make her feel good about herself (indirectly)..

let's say you're talking about something (example).. "women earning less in the labor market" [don't talk about this.. just an example].. she'll say something like "women earn less than men, and it's not fair, because women do more work".. [don't say yes you're right..].. instead.. argue it a little.. "well, I wouldn't say MORE work.. there are jobs like construction where men do alot of work and not that many jobs where women can claim the same".. this will go on for a min or two.. where she will try and prove you wrong.. (let her win).. "hmm.. that's very interesting.. I never thought about it that way.. you have a point.. you're right.. wow.. yeah.. you're totally right.. I agree with you.."... This will make her feel like she's won.. like she's beat you in arguing.. which is important for girls.. so let her have it.. let her feel good.. and let her think you're open-minded, confident, and that she's changed your mind about something.. This gives her a "connection" to you.. which is important for her to start having feelings for you..

so.. the night is comming to an end.. you're about to go home.. what to do? let her know how fun it was that she came.. that you should do it again sometime.. ask her how it was.. and ask her for her number like it's no big deal.. (this implies that the two of you have moved onto the next level.. which is NOT yet dating.. kiddy-classroom-friendship either)..

she should leave at the end of the night and think of what a great time she had.. how funny you were.. how much she laughed.. how she enjoyed it.. think about your eyes.. then you.. then about the way you looked.. smelled.. acted.. and will start to analyze to no end.. (i guess this is a good time to mention that at one point.. you should stand up and go to the bathroom.. as you go.. casually turn around to look at her behind you.. if she looks like she just jerked her head down to the ground or away quickly.. it means she was looking at your butt.. but doesn't want to get caught looking.. this is great news.. because the butt is one of the last things women notice in men.. after shoes.. eyes, cloths, face, smile, body, accessories, they will make their way to the butt.. which means she's liked what she's seen thus far to move all the way to your butt.. so you're in good shape)..

when you've done this.. we'll take it on from there.. one small step at a time though.. I think this is plenty to digest for one day :)

Best of Luck..

Some small tips that you may find helpful..

1. Lips.. Drink plenty of water the night before, and stop pealing your lips if you do.. starting from the morning time.. put some vaseline or lip balm on them.. do this once or twice before going out.. and when you're ready to go out.. keep a napkin or tissue with you to wipe off whatever is on your lips.. Why?

(this will make your lips look naturally moist and appealing, which is very attractive.. think about it.. what does it mean intuitively.. that your lips were made attractive and kissable by nature.. that they're normally like this).. so wipe off any hint of substance from your lips..

2. Lies.. don't.. just don't do it.. it takes a skilled liar to lie and come off as genuine.. it takes an even more skilled liar to lie while hooked up to a polygraph (lie-detector).. but at your age.. it's impossible to lie to women.. you can do it to your friends.. but you can't do it to women.. and no way you're going to get away with it to the woman you like.. Before the lie comes out of your mouth..she'll know something is off.. and when you DO lie.. you'll only look like an idiot and a liar.. which is needless to say.. unattractive..

3. Sell yourself.. the initial part of the courting process is all about selling yourself.. but before you can sell yourself to HER, you need to sell yourself to YOU.. YOU need to believe that you're good looking.. have good things to offer.. are better than most other guys.. and when you have concluded this.. be modest.. don't be cocky like the other guys.. and then.. indirectly try to sell this fact to HER.. by letting her slowly and indirectly noticing it.. (I use "indirect" over and over, because it's that important)..

(it will be alot easier to talk to her and be confident, and seem natural.. and just be yourself... if you really know that this IS yourself.. that you know that you are a high-quality male.. because if YOU don't believe it.. SHE won't believe it.. so make sure you realize your worth..)

4. Don't be shallow.. O.K.. not the best title.. but hear me out.. I know you're going to be nervous.. that's fine.. who wouldn't be.. but chances are.. you've put too much work in looking good and making it such a great night to be that nervous.. chances are.. she's more nervous than YOU are.. make her feel relaxed.. and more importantly.. READ her signals.. and remember them.. remember details.. come back and post up details after the date.. "where she was sitting, touching, her voice, her eyes, looking.. facial expression.. something she said.. something she did..".. you should be analyzing this as you go along.. but it's hard to be objective.. and analyze accurately if you like the person.. especially if you're new to this.. but don't worry.. lol you'll get better really fast..

watch out for eye-contact.. touching.. girls don't get close to guys or touch guys they don't like at this age.. watch out for genuine compliments.. that's a good sign obviously.. lol.. slouching and looking away is bad.. and go to the bathroom at least once.. turn around quickly but relaxed and casually to see what she's doing.. determine if she was really looking at your butt (read post above)..

when you come back.. you might want to say something like.. I think it's so funny that girls look at a guy's butt everytime they want to go to the bathroom.. (her name)!!!.. implying rather obviously that she was looking at your butt.. (this is the cocky-funny method.. it works wonders and is the coup de' creme' of flirting).. read some of my older posts for more of this..

Holy shit, Grk! You must be the reason loveadmin instituted a word limit for posts!

Anyway, that was too much for me. All I was was that you emphasized "charm", and I have to tell you that I, for one, consider excessive amounts of charm to be a gigantic red flag. Charm is usually mastered in order to cover up significant personality flaws, in my experience.

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Originally Posted by vashti [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Holy shit, Grk! You must be the reason loveadmin instituted a word limit for posts!

Anyway, that was too much for me. All I was was that you emphasized "charm", and I have to tell you that I, for one, consider excessive amounts of charm to be a gigantic red flag. Charm is usually mastered in order to cover up significant personality flaws, in my experience.

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YES.. suave-smooth-talker-charm is nothing more than fake.. and I totally agree with you.. you're totally right.. it's used to hide up something serious.. and in older women (not calling you old).. it will raise a red-flag... but it's pretty clear the guy who's asking about the girl is in HS.. lol

which btw.. did you see the actual application of the Argue-Agree? she actually thinks that I agree.. (i'm just kidding)... lol.. just teasing you vash.. :D

charm is normally not something you should put on.. it should come naturally.. it's a manifestation of charisma and a direct reflection of your true character.. it takes alot of time to properly develop it.. that's because you really have to develop as a character first and get to know yourself.. accept yourself.. love yourself.. and then.. that will naturally radiate.. with zero effort..

but that being said.. guys are notorious for being able to easily fake charm.. as the old saying goes.. "women can fake orgasms, but men can fake entire relationships".. but I wasn't suggesting you FAKE anything.. be cool.. relaxed and confident.. follow what I told you to do above.. and get back to us and let us know how things went.. we'll take if from there when the time comes..

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Originally Posted by vashti [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Holy shit, Grk! You must be the reason loveadmin instituted a word limit for posts!

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all jokes aside.. hardly.. the reason there's a limit is because sites like 4chan like to come onto forums for fun and crash the servers... so limits are a great way to deter such things from taking place..(400 4chan members crashed the halo3 site the first day within 20mins.. mind you.. this server was set-up to handle a MASS amount of users for the anticipated game)

no offense to LF, but it simply doesn't have the same resources at hand.. so it needs to take proper security measures..

people like me simply find the limits annoying.. but it's a small price to pay to make sure the forum stays safe and working well : )

Thanks GrkScorp for wasting your time and writing all of this, i really appreciated you doing this, i don't know how to thank you.

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Originally Posted by sevag00 [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Thanks GrkScorp for wasting your time and writing all of this, i really appreciated you doing this, i don't know how to thank you.

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oh.. that's easy.. you see.. loveforum has this wonderful feature called (THANK).. lol.. where you thank me.. and I pretend it means something..

don't worry about it.. the best way to thank me.. is do what I told you to do.. be a better guy.. and get the girl you want.. that to me is the best thanks you can give me and YOURSELF..

believe me.. i'm not sitting on here to rake in the THANK count... i'm here, like other people.. to help people in your situation.. with questions like yours.. at the end of the day.. that's the only reward I get.. knowing that I changed someone's life in a positive way.. so just make the effort to get her.. and let's make it go to the next step slowly.. : )

Best of Luck..

I just realized that i may face some problems talking to this girl in class, since after and before class she is surrounded by her friends, and she is only busy with them. And also at lunch break, she hangs out with her friends, but i always try to find her if she is aone, but finding her alone seems to be impossible. So what do you suggest me to do?

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Originally Posted by sevag00 [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I just realized that i may face some problems talking to this girl in class, since after and before class she is surrounded by her friends, and she is only busy with them. And also at lunch break, she hangs out with her friends, but i always try to find her if she is aone, but finding her alone seems to be impossible. So what do you suggest me to do?

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Fair enough.. but to not waste alot of time, i'll say this.. (that's just an excuse)..

Yes, you want to drink some coconut juice, but you can't get to it.. do you give up? depends on how badly you want it.. eventually.. you'll use your fingers if you have to, so you can break through the coconut..

Her friends are around her! Oh no!! (sarcasm).. what's that supposed to mean? All I told you was to say "Hi! and smile" to her every other day.. it doesn't matter of the Secret Service is around her.. you can still look at her before class starts.. say hi, and smile.. then sit down..

As for talking to her before class when her friends are around.. you might want to wait a week or so.. in that time.. i'm SURE there's going to be an instant where she's not talking to her friends.. and she's relatively jobless (not busy).. so man-up.. (because this is your only chance!).. and go up to her relaxed.. and invite her to go out.. the way I told you to.. don't give her the option to say (no) or to make (excuses).. and don't let her think about it and get back to you (because it'll most likely be a no, or an excuse for why she can't)..

But.. if there's something specific about her friends that is bothering you.. start being casually more talkative with her friends in other classes.. Start saying hi to them, give a warm friendly smile to all of them, agree with them in class, etc.. sooner or later.. their cold-rock-hard-shell will start to break.. and they'll let you into their friend circle.. heck.. they may even invite you to go out with them sometime.. (if that happens.. get out of it.. tell them "can't do it that day.. sorry.. BUT.. I was planning on going to (someplace) next weekend.. maybe we could all go then?").. you want to build up the mood as if YOU have invited them.. or else you will simply feel awkward and reserved.. which is NOT what you should be feeling.. if anything.. you should feel like you've invited a couple of girls to hang out.. and now they're all comming out with you.. that should get your ego up.. but don't let it get to your head..

If you can't isolate her.. use indirect communication.. (inside jokes only you and her understand, eye contact, basically anything that her friends can't pick up on.. don't use direct comments.. "oh that looks nice, I really like the way you.. blah blah".. her friends will pick that up before it even gets out of your mouth..)

So, basically.. you're stuck doing 1 of 2 things..

1. Direct.. She's talking to her friends.. you go march in there.. and ask to hang out that weekend.. (requires a high degree of "smooth" to do this.. and chances are.. if you're on this forum asking me what you should do.. you're not quite up there just yet..)

2. Indirect.. Talk-up her friends.. make sure they like you.. they don't feel intimidated by you.. and they don't sense your motives.. that way.. during class.. (before it starts).. when you see her talking to her friends.. it's not awkward anymore to go use the direct method.. because in a way.. you'll be comfortable with her friends.. and it'll almost be like you all know eachother and are all friends.. but if this is the case.. don't make a personal reference to HER.. that's being direct.. you're too young to use that kind of flattery around her friends.. (not your fault.. just girls at that age.. and high school social dynamics).. so this is why you have to wait until she has as few friends around her as possible.. and go ask THEM, or (if she's alone) HER..

WARNING: girls are two steps ahead of you.. when you're done talking.. they're going to go and tell their friends what happened.. and it's like a CSI episode where the forensic analysts all come together to see what's really going on.. so if you invite HER and leave it at that.. they're going to discover.. "oh! he's asking you on a date! ahahah".. yeah, so don't do that.. cover up your tracks.. with the aid (tool) of ambiguity & mystery.. if you ask her to come somewhere.. make sure to say (oh, and ask anyone else "her friends" if they want to come..).. in her mind.. and in her friends' minds.. they can't exactly call it a date proposition.. so it's way less threatening.. so your chances of getting a flat-out (no) on the spot are rare..

So, start being more active.. less passive.. more creative.. and more friendly..

like the old saying goes.. "you win more with honey than with vinegar"

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Originally Posted by GrkScorp [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

As for talking to her before class when her friends are around.. you might want to wait a week or so.. in that time.. i'm SURE there's going to be an instant where she's not talking to her friends.. and she's relatively jobless (not busy).. so man-up.. (because this is your only chance!).. and go up to her relaxed.. and invite her to go out.. the way I told you to.. don't give her the option to say (no) or to make (excuses).. and don't let her think about it and get back to you (because it'll most likely be a no, or an excuse for why she can't)..

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How do you know and Why in a week or so she'll be alone?

Yesterday at school, and in lunch break, she was alone, and she was not in a good mood, she was sad, and i was looking at her every few minutes, and i was worried. So i was thinking of what i am going to say her when i approach her, so i thinked for 10 minutes, and approached her, and said "why are you said?" she responded "for no reason", then i moved on, and went to my friends.
Now i regret that i didn't ask her further questions, so she would think i care for her, which i really care for her.

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Originally Posted by sevag00 [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Yesterday at school, and in lunch break, she was alone, and she was not in a good mood, she was sad, and i was looking at her every few minutes, and i was worried. So i was thinking of what i am going to say her when i approach her, so i thinked for 10 minutes, and approached her, and said "why are you said?" she responded "for no reason", then i moved on, and went to my friends.
Now i regret that i didn't ask her further questions, so she would think i care for her, which i really care for her.

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"no reason" doesn't mean the same thing for guys and girls. plus you should try to do what Scorp says, take that one moment you have to go talk to her alone, don't waste it. you had the chance to speak to her alone and you just let it go to waste! what you should have done is go up to her after just 1 minute and say something mildly funny to her like "it's 500". then when she would ask you want, you could tell her "half of 1000, I thought that's what you were thinking of". It's obviously not what she would be thinking of, but it would at least make her laugh. then you could go on an ask her what's wrong, and when she tells you no reason, don't leave! that's the worst thing you can do, it just shows her that you don't understand her! when she says no reason, you're supposed to say "why do you look upset? what r u thinking about? where did your friends go? why are you sitting here alone? you wanna come over to our table?"

this is exactly the chance you were looking for, and you blew it. like Scorp said, you only get a few chances from now until you move onto the friend zone, and you only get two or three chances to mess up, and this is a major screw up, you blew it. it has to come naturally, which is why if you have issues, work them out at home or away from school. when you see her, you should be able to think on your feet. if a guy took 10 minutes just to talk up himself to come over and speak to me, only to say one thing and then leave, it would show me that he's shy and clueless, and i'd be very put off.

to add to how much of a good opportunity you missed, i'll tell you this. when i'm upset, everyone leaves me alone. but secretly, deep down inside, i'll admit, I want someone to come up to me, and instead of trying to flirt with me at the wrong time, i'd like them to come up and ask me if i'm feeling ok, what's wrong, and all that. and I would probably just say that "nothing" is wrong, because I can't quite place my finger on one thing. but if someone would come up to me, and just talk, I would be really blown away. it would show me that they're sensitive, caring, understanding, and it would make a positive and lasting impression. some guys just naturally see that chance and take it, you have to learn how to see those open doors with girls. looks like you have some major shyness issues to work on. so go work on them, every day! work on them at home, go on chats and talk up random girls, no harm done. go in front of the mirror and practice smiling or talking. try on clothes that you think make you look better. but just do something and work on it soon, because it's not long until she thinks about your one line chat and places you in her "not interested" pool of guys.

I agree with you, i had this chance and i blew it. I dont know why i didn't think about asking her more questions. I realized that after i went home.

I also want to add that, i got her email maybe few weeks ago, but it seems that she is never going to be online on msn messenger, maybe we can have a chat.
Every weekend, i am having high hopes that she'll be online, but it is not working.