Advice needed!

Hello everyone. I am in college and have never really had a serious girl friend. This spring I met a girl that I really get along well with. We have really bonded as good friends and I'm starting to think it could go further than that.
The big problem is, she has a boyfriend. She almost never talks about him with me. We are together almost every day, sometimes for 6+ hours with class/work. We talk on the phone every day sometimes for a half hour and I feel like I am with her more than her boyfriend (who is home for summer). She flirts with me here and there and tends to lead me on.
I feel like I need to tell her my feelings and see what she says, or at least bring up the fact that I am with her more than her boyfriend. We have a lot in common and are taking classes together in the fall, so I'm thinking I shouldn't rush saying something. Any advice on what I should do would be really helpful! sorry for the rant...

Have you told her that your with her more than her boyfriend?
Tell her to give you an update on how things are going on, and If it's pretty far into something that can become serious, don't get involved.
Just treat her as a friend, and enjoy the time spent together.

P.S. I have had this happen with a friend of mine too, we're just dance partners , but she a very good personality and would love to find someone like her to have around.

I suggest you use her personality to find someone that matches it, If you feel comfortable with a person like her.

I would advice not to say or do anything while she is with her bf, treat her as a friend.

Don't **** with other peoples relationship till their done with it. As soon as she breaks up, she's fair game. But then again you may get stuck in the friend zone.

You shouldn't tell her about feeling which you have. Have you tried to kiss her? Ask her for a date with you. Buy flower, some surprise for her and in the end kiss her. IF this will work she is yours and forget about bf.

What the hell is with so many people trying to mess with someone in a relationship? They are NOT available. What if you told her how you felt and she decided to break up with her boyfriend? Do you think you're that prince that she'll never leave? She'll do the same shit to you when someone better rolls along.

Don't tell her your feelings. You'll put stress on her and she'll want to break the friendship off unless she's a tramp that leaves her boyfriend for you... but then again, as I said, she will most likely do the same to you.

You need to establish boundaries with girls in relationships. They aren't your flirting toy. She is in the wrong too, but you should still know better. It's disrespectful.

There's always the probability they'll break up and you can be the consoling fren and gain her trust and so on and so forth. Just make sure the guy isn;t your fren. Its just weird.

Telling her is decidedly a bad idea.

I don't think there is anything wrong here, except that you may be wasting your energy. She isn't married, so she is still available if she chooses to be. (sorry, boys.)

Tell her it is a shame she has a boyfriend, because if she didn't, you would ask her out. Or tell her when she dumps her boyfriend, you intend to ask her out. This is called "competition". Don't try kissing her, though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vashti [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I don't think there is anything wrong here, except that you may be wasting your energy. She isn't married, so she is still available if she chooses to be. (sorry, boys.)

Tell her it is a shame she has a boyfriend, because if she didn't, you would ask her out. Or tell her when she dumps her boyfriend, you intend to ask her out. This is called "competition". Don't try kissing her, though.

---

I don't think a girl has to be married for you to respect the fact that she's in a relationship and to not mess with her. Telling her that you're interested so she dumps her bf is a bullshit move imo.

You are entitled to your opinion, even if it is wrong. :lol:

If she loves her boyfriend, she isn't going to dump him, is she?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vashti [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

You are entitled to your opinion, even if it is wrong. :lol:

If she loves her boyfriend, she isn't going to dump him, is she?

---

That's not the point. The point is that it is DISRESPECTFUL for him to knowingly try to steal a girl away from another man. If she were to leave her bf she'd be just as much in the wrong as he is. It's just a matter of respect.

I just love hearing this: "She left her boyfriend for me but I'm so shocked she's leaving me for someone else!"

I see what you are saying. I just don't agree. If she leaves him for another guy, he should be happy she did it before he married her.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vashti [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I see what you are saying. I just don't agree. If she leaves him for another guy, he should be happy she did it before he married her.

---

To each his own, I guess.

I do and will always find it disrespectful. It's something that I will never do because I wouldn't want someone doing it to me.

I love some of your opinion and views, vash, but then sometimes I think your views are shit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by shh! [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Tell her it is a shame she has a boyfriend, because if she didn't, you would ask her out. Or tell her when she dumps her boyfriend, you intend to ask her out. This is called "competition". Don't try kissing her, though.

---

Do this.

It's a nice way to let her know you're interested without crossing any boundaries.

If she leaves her boyfriend for you then he never really had her anyways.

You guys are in college. Have fun.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cain [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

To each his own, I guess.

I do and will always find it disrespectful. It's something that I will never do because I wouldn't want someone doing it to me.

I love some of your opinion and views, vash, but then sometimes I think your views are shit.

---

Oh, well. Can't win 'em all. I used to think like you do, if it is any consolation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vashti [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Oh, well. Can't win 'em all. I used to think like you do, if it is any consolation.

---

I guess when I'm old and feeble my opinion will change too. :evil:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cain [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I don't think a girl has to be married for you to respect the fact that she's in a relationship and to not mess with her. Telling her that you're interested so she dumps her bf is a bullshit move imo.

---

Think what you want, but the socially accepted sign that someone is unavailable is that they are married, or an equivalent form of commitment. Like CB said before, if you want a 'guarantee' someone won't leave, then get married.

Other than that, its "All's fair in love & war". You don't have to like it, but to my knowledge, noone has ever won an 'alienation of affection' suit for someone they weren't married to.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cain [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I love some of your opinion and views, vash, but then sometimes I think your views are shit.

---

And I wish your mouth wasn't bigger than your IQ, sometimes Cain.

Feel free to interpret that in either direction. :tough:

Marriage isn't even a guarantee :( people get divorced all the time.

Of course, hence the 'quotes'. However, most decent ppl understand that they must first get divorced before jumping ship.

Its the fact that a formal commitment has been made that makes the difference between something like marriage & other relationships.

(I feel like I need to put that in my sig, its coming up so much)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IndiReloaded [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

And I wish your mouth wasn't bigger than your IQ, sometimes Cain.

Feel free to interpret that in either direction. :tough:

---

My mouth is as big as I want it to be.

Regardless, I still think that messing with someone in a relationship is disrespectful. And you mention an equivalent form of commitment... what is that? Engagement?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IndiReloaded [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Think what you want, but the socially accepted sign that someone is unavailable is that they are married, or an equivalent form of commitment. Like CB said before, if you want a 'guarantee' someone won't leave, then get married.

Other than that, its "All's fair in love & war". You don't have to like it, but to my knowledge, noone has ever won an 'alienation of affection' suit for someone they weren't married to.

---

I disagree with that.

I see commitment and loyalty as important mirrors into a person's character. If a person is unable to demonstrate these in a relationship, it's almost certain they won't be able to demonstarte these in marriage. Marriage is just a legal document that aims to prolong the break up. The perosnality and character ethic is within every single person be they married or not. Socially accepted signs are flawed. If a person lacks commitment to begin with they are an unaccpetable and an untrustworthy partner imo. Demonstarted failure in commitment in previous relationships is one of the first tools I use to weed out those who are not right for me by the way.

Define what you mean by 'commitment' in a non-marriage relationship.

I'm not talking about not cheating on a partner, BTW. Thats a no-brainer. But seriously, how much 'commitment' do you really expect from someone who isn't your spouse, or has that intention?

Cain: yes, I think that a couple who is engaged to be married is committed. A promise to marry is a kind of formal commitment to each other.

Being exclusive with someone in a relationship is not the same as being committed to someone, IMO. Exclusivity refers to the *present* state of a relationship & makes NO promise about the future. A commitment is a statement about the present AND future state of a relationship. And its not to be given lightly in every relationship you enter into, at least I certainly didn't when I was young & dating. Exclusive, yes, committed... not until I met my husband.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IndiReloaded [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Define what you mean by 'commitment' in a non-marriage relationship.

I'm not talking about not cheating on a partner, BTW. Thats a no-brainer. But seriously, how much 'commitment' do you really expect from someone who isn't your spouse, or has that intention?

---

Well, I think in this instance the talk is about cheating. I.e. messing about with a person who is in a relationship. Imo if someone who is in the relationship starts inappropriate behaviour with another person (from passionate mouth to mouth kissing to having sex) I consider it demonstration of break of commitment and exclusivity to their partner.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IndiReloaded [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Being exclusive with someone in a relationship is not the same as being committed to someone, IMO. Exclusivity refers to the *present* state of a relationship & makes NO promise about the future. A commitment is a statement about the present AND future state of a relationship. And its not to be given lightly in every relationship you enter into, at least I certainly didn't when I was young & dating. Exclusive, yes, committed... not until I met my husband.

---

I'm not understanding the difference you are describing between the two Indi. If you have a talk about exclusivity and decide to be exclusive with your partner it means that you are not exclusive today only, it means you are also exclusive tomorrow (the future) until relationship ends. This is not, "I'm exclusive until I find someone better", this is not exclusivity imo it's casual dating.

To me the REAL difference between exclusivity and commitment (and there is a very important one) is this:

Exclusivity means that you are not going to cheat on your partner for as long as the two of you are in a relationship. Once relationship ends, you are no longer bound by this exclusivity.

Commitment means you are not only not going to cheat on your partner for as long as the two of you are in the relationship, but you also commit yourself to being with them. A very important concept. Commitment means you dedicate yourself towards resolving issues in the relationship as they arise, you dedicate yourself towards settling difference, when your partner is sick you dedicate yourself to looking after them insted of abandoning them.

Ultimately I see commitment as a glue that binds two people in a relationship, legally closed by a paper contract called marriage before both start a family together.

This is what I mean when I keep on re-iterating the differences between dating and relationships, they are not one and the same. Dating does not require commitment or exclusivity while most (functional) relationships do. If someone does not want to be bound by commitment or exclusivity, then don't be in a relationship, that's my point of view.

So just to clarify the above. The way I see it yes there is a difference between exclusivity and commitment and commitment should not be given lightly. Exclusivity is a type of dedication that binds both partners to be exclusive to one another until relationship comes to an end. It's a bare minimum requirement to start a relationship imo. Commitment of the type I described is something that comes into play a little bit later into most relationships on its own. Because if one or both partners are not committed to solving their differences, solving issues as they arise and over all are not being committed to being together then their relationship will crumble and fall apart (when, is the matter of time), begging the question why were they in a relationship in the first place if they lacked commitment.

What I meant in the previous post when I said "Demonstrated failure in commitment in previous relationships is one of the first tools I use to weed out those who are not right for me" is basically this: My realization that those who fail to demonstrate the most basic form of commitment in a relationship by being exclusive to their partner are untrustworthy and unsuitable at least as far as I'm concerned.

If anyone wonders I clarified my point of view on this to each and every one girl I was with so we are on the same page before we started a relationship (in the past and the one in the present). If they disagreed I let them go.

I'm with Cain on this.
It would be a total dick move if you interfered with the relationship. Trust me, you do not want to be that guy. It's just disrespectful to both of them, and yes I mean it: both of them.

The fact that she doesn't talk much about him doesn't mean much. You guys have an exclusively "friends" relationship. She's in the wrong if she flirts with you a lot. And with the amount you two talk, if she were having issues with her man you'd probably hear about it. Women have a hard time not talking about stuff like that with those they are close with.

Maybe you could say something like, "You know, with the amount you flirt with me, it's almost like you want me to fall for you."
That may be a bit vague, but she'll probably get the hint that she should cut down on it.

Also:
I don't see why marriage should be the only case that you don't go after someone. Seriously. These people are in a relationship trying to make it work out. Even if you are a close friend with feelings, you really have no right to put strain on the relationship by telling her your feelings. And nobody has the right to try and break a relationship apart, even one without a ring.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mishanya [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Exclusivity is a type of dedication that binds both partners to be exclusive to one another until relationship comes to an end. .

---

I don't think anyone disagrees, but there is no obligation to continue in an exclusive relationship should a person change their mind. They are allowed to say "I think I'll be moving on now".

I still and never will think that it's okay to try and steal someone from a relationship that they are in. It's disrespectful. If the two aren't exclusive and in a committed relationship (I don't view marriage and engagement as the only way to commit to your partner. I'm not engaged or married to my gf but we're committed to each other), then fine... but only if it is casual dating. I'm using casual dating in terms of two people that like to hang out with each other and act like more than friends. Casual relationships aren't serious, so those are fair game. But before someone tries to steal another, they need to know whether the relationship is casual or serious.

I think it's up to the individual person how they react to someone hitting on them or telling them how they feel. Personally if I'm told that someone liked me I'd simply say aww thanks but I'm with someone I love. And ofcoarse think in my head I've got the best of them all :p When it comes to commitment some take it more lightly then others. You have to ask yourself if she leaves her guy for you are you ok with her commitment to you?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by shh! [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I don't think anyone disagrees, but there is no obligation to continue in an exclusive relationship should a person change their mind. They are allowed to say "I think I'll be moving on now".

---

Definetly. That's why I said, exclusivity is dedication until the relationship ends. The person can do what they like after they are no longer bound by it. But while they are, they better not break their exclusivity to their partner or else be seen as untrustworthy. That's why I always suggest not to mess with people in relationships.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mishanya [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Well, I think in this instance the talk is about cheating. I.e. messing about with a person who is in a relationship. Imo if someone who is in the relationship starts inappropriate behaviour with another person (from passionate mouth to mouth kissing to having sex) I consider it demonstration of break of commitment and exclusivity to their partner.

---

If you lack exclusivity, then it follows that there is no commitment. If I drew the venn diagram, the way I think about it, commitment would be a subset of exclusive.

But some of you seem to want to stuff your relationship experiences immediately into that deeper subset. And that is foolish, I think. Once you offer & receive commitment from someone (i.e. you plan for the future, together), you have NOT achieved the Holy Grail. Its merely a building block for the next set of challenges you'll face in this thing called 'relationship'.

So you better make damn sure that whoever you offer commitment to is worth it. Give it away too easy & you reduce its value, IMO. This is why so many couples, including the OP, end up with the problems they do.

I'm with Vash & CB on this. I view any relationship that doesn't have an understanding of permanency, agreed upon by both partners, as uncommitted & therefore you can 'walk away from it' at any point. Sure, ppl will get hurt, but I happen to think honesty about such things is always better than misleading someone and then causing even more hurt down the road.

To the OP: if, by just being her friend, you can destabilize the relationship with her BF to the point they break up, then in my opinion they didn't really belong together anyway. Note that there ARE ways to do this such that you aren't an asshole.

In other words, don't be disrespectful, but don't actively work to support a relationship that isn't all that stable anyway. Let her know your feelings (they aren't wrong) & let her decide what to do about it.

Good luck.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IndiReloaded [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

In other words, don't be disrespectful, but don't actively work to support a relationship that isn't all that stable anyway. Let her know your feelings (they aren't wrong) & let her decide what to do about it.

---

Yeah, that. ^^

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IndiReloaded [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

If you lack exclusivity, then it follows that there is no commitment. If I drew the venn diagram, the way I think about it, commitment would be a subset of exclusive.

---

I don't view two people who lack exclusivity as being in a functional relationship. They're either dating or are engaged in a deeply flawed relations that will soon fall apart.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IndiReloaded [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

But some of you seem to want to stuff your relationship experiences immediately into that deeper subset. And that is foolish, I think. Once you offer & receive commitment from someone (i.e. you plan for the future, together), you have NOT achieved the Holy Grail. Its merely a building block for the next set of challenges you'll face in this thing called 'relationship'.

---

I think anyone who makes the conscious choice to go from dating into a relationship is automatically going into that deeper subset of at least the most basic type of commitment (exclusivity). There is no Holy Grail by the way. Relationship is the next set of challenges and marriage is the next set of challenges after that. We never stop experiencing, learning and solving issues and differences.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IndiReloaded [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

So you better make damn sure that whoever you offer commitment to is worth it.

---

That goes without saying

If someone is worthy enough to have a relationship with, it means they are worthy enough to give commitment to. At least from my point of view.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IndiReloaded [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I'm with Vash & CB on this. I view any relationship that doesn't have an understanding of permanency, agreed upon by both partners, as uncommitted & therefore you can 'walk away from it' at any point. Sure, ppl will get hurt, but I happen to think honesty about such things is always better than misleading someone and then causing even more hurt down the road.

---

Anyone is free to walk away from any relationship at any point in time (be it relationship or marriage with children) if things aren't working out. It's best for everyone involved if that's the case. I think it's important that both parties make a substantial effort to repair their relationship and learn from their mistakes before that occurs. Granted, the effort between fixing a relationship and marriage with children will vary.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IndiReloaded [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

To the OP: if, by just being her friend, you can destabilize the relationship with her BF to the point they break up, then in my opinion they didn't really belong together anyway. Note that there ARE ways to do this such that you aren't an asshole.

---

I strongly disagree with that. Anyone's relationship can be destabilized with enough cunning and effort. If destabilization of two people is made into a project then most people's relationships can end, because most people's relationships aren't perfect and have a whole range of vulnerbilities that can easily be exploited by those with enough skill in the area. Noone's relationship is safe from those with enough skill in relationship demolition. (And there are people skilled in that area) So I don't agree with you when you say that if a relationship can be destabilized then the two people didn't belong together anyway. Because what it means to me is that in this case most people don't belong together.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IndiReloaded [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

In other words, don't be disrespectful, but don't actively work to support a relationship that isn't all that stable anyway. Let her know your feelings (they aren't wrong) & let her decide what to do about it.

---

I would say, don't interfere at all. Let them sort their shit out on their own.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mishanya [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I strongly disagree with that. Anyone's relationship can be destabilized with enough cunning and effort. If destabilization of two people is made into a project then most people's relationships can end, because most people's relationships aren't perfect and have a whole range of vulnerbilities that can easily be exploited by those with enough skill in the area. Noone's relationship is safe from those with enough skill in relationship demolition. (And there are people skilled in that area) So I don't agree with you when you say that if a relationship can be destabilized then the two people didn't belong together anyway. Because what it means to me is that in this case most people don't belong together.

---

QFMFT!

Indi... Vash... I can guarantee that someone can destroy both of your relationships too. Mish stated it beautifully. Anyone's relationship can be sabotaged. No question. If someone really wants to break two people up, it can happen.

Point is: Don't interfere with two people in a relationship. Karma's a bitch.

I think we are mostly in agreement, Mish. You DID understand my venn diagram model? I can draw it if not.

And I was actually saying there wasn't a 'holy grail'. Must be my online accent. ;)

You are stating things that are obvious (re: destabilization). I was quite specific in my example: I said that if *just by being friends* the OP can destabilize his friends relationship, then there are certainly problems. I am assuming the OP is not the cunning sort who would deliberately mess up someone's relationship. The sort of ppl who might do such a thing deliberately are rather easy to spot (just look at their relationship history, or lack of).

Anything else?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cain [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Indi... Vash... I can guarantee that someone can destroy both of your relationships too.

---

Actually, no they couldn't (or at least I wouldn't be the weak link). When there are children involved, there is more to consider than simply your own wishes. If my husband can allow this to happen, then he should go.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by shh! [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Actually, no they couldn't. When there are children involved, there is more to consider than simply your own wishes.

---

So, if her husband happened to start to strongly believe she was cheating with what he would consider proof (though forged proof), he'd stay? It's something we'll never know. Regardless, that won't save it after the kids are gone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IndiReloaded [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I think we are mostly in agreement, Mish. You DID understand my venn diagram model? I can draw it if not.

And I was actually saying there wasn't a 'holy grail'. Must be my online accent. ;)

You are stating things that are obvious (re: destabilization). I was quite specific in my example: I said that if *just by being friends* the OP can destabilize his friends relationship, then there are certainly problems. I am assuming the OP is not the cunning sort who would deliberately mess up someone's relationship. The sort of ppl who might do such a thing deliberately are rather easy to spot (just look at their relationship history, or lack of).

Anything else?

---

The problem is that she might enjoy being friends with him and if he confesses feelings for her, they shouldn't stay friends. Her boyfriend might not like her staying friends with someone that has claimed to have feelings for her and I agree with him. The fact that he would be willing to risk the friendship so he can try to break them up is bullshit since she might end up losing a friend.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cain [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

If someone really wants to break two people up, it can happen.

---

I am going to disagree with this. I'm not saying it can't be done, anything is possible, but it is VERY difficult to come between two ppl with good communication & commitment. Particularly if they are aware of how relationships can be made vulnerable & then consciously avoid those things.

There are LOTS of good articles on the web about how to 'affair proof' relationships, and the like. Its all good stuff.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cain [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

So, if her husband happened to start to strongly believe she was cheating with what he would consider proof (though forged proof), he'd stay? It's something we'll never know. Regardless, that won't save it after the kids are gone.

---

Who are you referring to (her, him)??