Was Found in an Apartment

I realize I'm probably the last person anyone on this forum anyone would think cares about animals...

True, I do view them as being potential food... however, I also do not see any reason to treat animals in a cruel fashion... through either abuse or neglect.

One of the apartments where I live was recently vacated in a hurry... practically overnight. They left the apartment a mess, leaving a few items as well.

Among these items was a small fish bowl, half filled with soured water... it was too foggy to really see anything in it. When it was brought to the main office, I was curious as to why this was there. Upon closer inspection, I realized there was a fish in there. It was very much alive.

I asked to take the fish home... It was while I was removing the items from the bowl I realized there wasn't just one fish, but two. A male betta and a female betta. Needless to say, I was more than a little shocked. It was a wonder the fish had survived at all in such putrid conditions... and even more of a shock for anyone to put two bettas in the same bowl --- they're not called 'fighting fish' for nothing.

I cleaned up the bowl... put in new rocks... cleaned the items... set up two separate environments for the fish... and started their treatment for some common fish diseases.

It's day two... and though they are still quite ravenous... they seem to be looking better. As fish heal surprisingly fast.

So now I have two male bettas, and two female bettas.


I just don't understand some people... if they didn't want the fish anymore... it's not difficult to leave them with the main office. The other residents would've been more than happy to take the fish home with them. But to leave them in festering conditions with the water slowly evaporating, and no food... inching them closer to death... seems to be more than just heartless. I understand they're just $3 fish... but they're the easiest fish to take care of --- thus the easiest to give away.

I think you should dump him

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Originally Posted by Lonely Island [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I think you should dump him

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LOL... would that be the fish? Flush them down the commode?

Apparently someone was sleeping in class in today.. ;)

He must be on autopilot.

I never understood why people put fish in bowls either...

now people are putting people on leashes!

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Originally Posted by doppelgaenger [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I never understood why people put fish in bowls either...

now people are putting people on leashes!

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If you've ever had a pack of 5 year olds stampede you in Wal-Mart... that 'human leash' starts to seem all the more appealing. Though shock collars might be a bit far for screaming children... but I guess you could put them on the parents talking on their cell phones while their kids destroy the store? It could be called a 'back to reality collar.'

Dopple has been playing devil's advocate on that subject since 'Nisha brought up using a leash for her child.

Apparently toddlers are so conscious of themselves that they're embarrassed at being leashed like a dog.

Does prozac come as a chewable?

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Originally Posted by Frasbee [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Does prozac come as a chewable?

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Not sure... but Flintstone shaped tablets would be interesting... in a morbidly funny sort of way.

We give tranquilizers to dogs and cats... Ridlin to kids who are too 'hyperactive' for too preoccupied parents... So it's only a matter of time before Flintstone Prozac has a place right next to the Flintstone vitamins in the medicine cabinet.

That reminds me that they are now making chewable vitamins for adults. That seems silly to me.

About your fish - you probably know that if you stick a plant with the roots exposed into the top of that fish bowl, the beta fish will feed from the roots, while the fish's fecal material and water will nourish the plant, and it makes an entire ecosystem. I just can't remember the name of the plant.

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Originally Posted by vashti [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

That reminds me that they are now making chewable vitamins for adults. That seems silly to me.

About your fish - you probably know that if you stick a plant with the roots exposed into the top of that fish bowl, the beta fish will feed from the roots, while the fish's fecal material and water will nourish the plant, and it makes an entire ecosystem. I just can't remember the name of the plant.

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Yeah.. I've done that before as well, and hope to do so again... however, betta's are predominantly carnivorous... so they will still need to have more protein in their diet. I've also added some Stress-Zyme which helps to balance out the bacteria that exists in the small confines of their bowls... keeps the water fresher longer and promotes the growth of 'helpful' bacteria.

in the wild, betas live in stale, foggy waters. they're used to it. that's why they survived.

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Originally Posted by misombra [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

in the wild, betas live in stale, foggy waters. they're used to it. that's why they survived.

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Yeah.. think I saw something on the discovery channel the other day... they're one tough little fish... the 'attitude' just seems to add all the more to their 'charm.'

Although... in the wild, they are rather drab looking... for obvious reasons.

Good thing you were there ... How'd you end up checking the apartment anyway? Lucky fish, they are.

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Originally Posted by tooxshort [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Good thing you were there ... How'd you end up checking the apartment anyway? Lucky fish, they are.

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I work for the apartment complex to make ends meet... as my other job is still quite slow.

So I was in there conducting a Damage Report.

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Originally Posted by Aeradalia [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Yeah.. I've done that before as well, and hope to do so again... however, betta's are predominantly carnivorous... so they will still need to have more protein in their diet.

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Maybe, but the one we had lived for around a year on just the plant and water. That was long enough for me.

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Originally Posted by vashti [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Maybe, but the one we had lived for around a year on just the plant and water. That was long enough for me.

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One year? Their lifespan averages about 4 - 5 years... when I was a kid we had one named 'Jasmine' (poor, poor guy...) that lived for 8 years...

Though our Kissing Gourami... 'Pinky' lived closer to ten years... despite the fact he had a tendency to leap out of the aquarium and land on the floor ever so often (we finally had to duct tape the lid shut).

I reckon that aquariums are more fun than people give them credit for, I had plenty of good (and bad) experiences from having aquariums as a kid.

My first one went along just fine until my two younger sisters (they were probably 5 or something at the time) decided to give my fishes a shampoo bath. Needless to say, they all died and I started all over.

But after that I kept pretty simple fishies (not sure what the english name of them are) and bred them, had tons of fun chasing the fish-spawns to put them into a special "breeding" container near the surface, and remodelling the fish tank with new rocks and plants.

My dad also kept an aquarium in the living room with a couple of varied Malawi Ciclids (since we lived in those areas we brought rocks home straight from the malawi lake), had one that survived for several years with various problems of jumping out of the tank, kicking the ass of the male counterpart and accidentally eating her own spawns (What do you call them - Mouth-roosters or something?).

If I ever get spare time and some spare cash I am definitely going to get another aquarium.

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Originally Posted by Aeradalia [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

One year? Their lifespan averages about 4 - 5 years... when I was a kid we had one named 'Jasmine' (poor, poor guy...) that lived for 8 years...

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Yeah - it was only about a year... my daughter changed out the water in the fishbowl and didn't let the water temperature warm up to room temperature before putting the fish in. I think the shock killed it. :horror:

As I said, it was long enough for me. I wouldn't have ever voluntarily taken the stupid fish - my daughter won it at a carnival.

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Originally Posted by vashti [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

As I said, it was long enough for me. I wouldn't have ever voluntarily taken the stupid fish - my daughter won it at a carnival.

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I think Bettas are the perfect 'starter pet' for children. They practically take up no room... all the 'mess' they could make is in one bowl... the fish are hardy and very forgiving of pH imbalances, high ammonia levels, starvation, moderate temperature variations, and cramp conditions.

It would teach the children about responsibility and the fish would survive the dreaded 'lost interest phase' that kids seem to go through on a regular basis. Plus, if you ever get tired of the fish... they're quite easy to give away... as they're so small and relatively undemanding as a pet.

I would recommend giving them a fish --- to learn the fundamentals of responsibility --- long before giving them a dog or cat. That's what my parents did... so by the time I 'graduated' to having a dog.. I knew all about developing a routine to help care for the animal.

My mom was a smart woman... she hated taking care of animals... though enjoyed playing with/watching them. Had all kinds of animals growing up... and even nursed a few wild ones back to health before releasing them.

if i wanted my kids to learn how to take care of living things i would start with plants. fish are so damn stank!

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Originally Posted by Aeradalia [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

It would teach the children about responsibility...

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Speaking as a mother, I always found this to be the worst reason to give a kid a pet. I think one should get pets because YOU (the parent) want to love and care for one. As you mentioned, many kids lose interest almost immediately, especially when the animal isn't interactive.

Anyway, I don't know that having pets will necessarily teach a kid to be responsible. I tend to think of that as more of an inherent personality trait, although I suppose giving a kid who is responsible by nature a pet to care, they will gain skill in caring for that pet.

Fish are a pain in the butt. We kept them as college students & it was a lot of work keeping that tank clean. Even with a decent filter.

I would recommend a pet (for an older child) like a lizard or snake. Reason being they will have to do some research about how to properly care for them. So, while there is some responsibility there, it isn't quite as mundane as getting something like a fish or gerbil. They will have to actually put some effort in and learn some biology to be ready for the pet.

Plus, reptiles are damn cool. Just don't get a turtle. Then you get the stinky water thing & have to feed them live fish.

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Originally Posted by vashti [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Speaking as a mother, I always found this to be the worst reason to give a kid a pet. I think one should get pets because YOU (the parent) want to love and care for one. As you mentioned, many kids lose interest almost immediately, especially when the animal isn't interactive.

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So the child misses out on having a pet if the parent doesn't want any pets at all? I've known some people who grew up with parents like that... they were very resentful of that.

You start out with a pet appropriate to the child's age and level of interest. Giving a 5 year old a pet... isn't being reasonable with their level of maturity --- a toy pet that simulates such responsibility might be more appropriate (at least you won't have a 'dead pet' to have to explain to a child that young).

I was thinking of giving an older child a pet to teach responsibility --- during a time when the child is learning about keeping the house clean in return for an allowance. Easy enough to include 'you can have this pet so long you care for them.' My brother lost his hamster because he stopped caring for it... it ended up in my care because I wanted it and he wasn't caring for it. He wasn't allowed to have another pet for a couple of months... had to do extra chores to earn the 'privilege.' Finally, when he fulfilled what he 'promised to do' he was able to buy another hamster. He took better care of the animal... as the idea of it being taken away was very real to him.

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Originally Posted by vashti [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Anyway, I don't know that having pets will necessarily teach a kid to be responsible. I tend to think of that as more of an inherent personality trait, although I suppose giving a kid who is responsible by nature a pet to care, they will gain skill in caring for that pet.

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Any kid can be taught responsibility... some just take longer to learn it than others. They have to be capable of being taught such a concept... or else they will fail to adjust to life as an adult. Doesn't have to be a social animal they keep... some kids prefer reptiles and other solitary animals... whereas other kids do like the more affectionate kinds... like dogs and some cats.

Caring for a living creature helps to instill the idea that there are other living things in life... encourages curiosity... and when the animal dies (eventually one will die from old age or 'accident') it teaches them about life and death.

I doubt a video game would teach them such things... or even give them a chance to 'care' about something other than themselves. Teach them how being responsible can be rewarded by affection from the pet (in the case of a dog or cat)... or the animal resuming it's natural behaviors in a clean environment (becomes their own personal 'Discovery Channel').

It works out better if the parent gives the child the opportunity to choose from a group of animals within the same level of responsibility... rather than the parent picking out an animal and forcing the child to care for it --- especially if the parent really wants the animal for themselves and is having the child care for it. Denying the child a choice may lead to them liking the pet less.

My brother and I had a choice between having a hamster, rat, mouse, or gerbil (similar levels of responsibilities)... and of course, we still had the betta... it was thriving, which afforded us the 'luxury' of having another pet.

I didn't have a dog until I was about 12 years old... my brother wasn't 12 yet, so he couldn't have a dog... but he could play with mine if I let him (I was taught to 'share' so I did)... A 12 year old can take care of a dog all on their own... a younger child really can't...

See what I mean? Age-appropriate levels of responsibilities can be found in different pets. Bettas are very easy to care for... so younger children can care for them. Rodents are a little harder... so older children can care for them. Reptiles like snakes or an aquarium is a little tougher... so an even older child can care for them. Then finally, a dog or cat is a lot of responsibility... so you wait until the child is close to their teens (if not there already) before they can care for such an animal.

At each step... you give them a choice between sociable or less sociable animals to fit the child's 'personality.'

Pets can teach very valuable lessons to children... so long as you are reasonable with what you can expect from the child at their given age...

An aquarium to breed fish in, and then a rat snake to feed the fish to.

The ecosystem is emerging!

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Originally Posted by Lipp [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

An aquarium to breed fish in, and then a rat snake to feed the fish to.

The ecosystem is emerging!

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Used to breed fish to feed to an Oscar and a Ribbonsnake I had.... then I had a goliath waterbug that would eat the fish that died in the breeding tank... that was quite the 'ecosystem.'

Hi there, I'm glad you saved the fish:) Betta can live in horrible conditions because, unlike most fish, they can breath air from the surface of the water. They can also live weeks without food. In nature, they live in small puddles. I'm surprised they didn't kill each other.

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Originally Posted by Sunshimmer [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Hi there, I'm glad you saved the fish:) Betta can live in horrible conditions because, unlike most fish, they can breath air from the surface of the water. They can also live weeks without food. In nature, they live in small puddles. I'm surprised they didn't kill each other.

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Nah.. they didn't try to kill each other.. actually the male had built a bubble nest, of all things. The female wasn't 'ready'... but the male sure as hell was.. :lol:

I used to have a Trigger fish. It was huge and absolutely vicious. If you walked by the aquarium it would smash against the glass again and again, desperately trying to get at you. Come feeding time it would ignore the food and jump for your hands. I loved that little monster.

Any time someone had a fish they didn't want to keep I gladly took it. And placed it in the tank with Cujo.

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Originally Posted by Gribble [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I used to have a Trigger fish. It was huge and absolutely vicious. If you walked by the aquarium it would smash against the glass again and again, desperately trying to get at you. Come feeding time it would ignore the food and jump for your hands. I loved that little monster.

Any time someone had a fish they didn't want to keep I gladly took it. And placed it in the tank with Cujo.

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Had an Oscar like that... named him Kamikaze... he was excellent during football season... became the 'Halftime Show' for us.

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Originally Posted by Aeradalia [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

So the child misses out on having a pet if the parent doesn't want any pets at all? I've known some people who grew up with parents like that... they were very resentful of that.

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Well, some kids will be resentful of pretty much anything.

Also, the resentment can go both ways. In my house, it was my son who didn't want a pet, and every time the dog does something annoying, you can bet my son is resentful.

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Originally Posted by Aeradalia [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Any kid can be taught responsibility... some just take longer to learn it than others.

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The good news is that someday you will be able to put all your theories into practice.

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Originally Posted by vashti [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Well, some kids will be resentful of pretty much anything.

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I wasn't talking about 'kids'... I was talking about when they become adults..

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Originally Posted by vashti [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Also, the resentment can go both ways. In my house, it was my son who didn't want a pet, and every time the dog does something annoying, you can bet my son is resentful.

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If your son didn't want a pet... then why have one? If he didn't want it.. then it's safe to say that he didn't pick it out either. If another child wanted the pet, then why should he have to care for it?

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Originally Posted by vashti [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

The good news is that someday you will be able to put all your theories into practice.

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I don't have to put into practice the theory that any child can learn responsibility... I see it every day via other parents, close family members, friends... complete strangers.. and every adult I've met has some understanding of responsibility. Our entire society is built on having an understanding of responsibility (you have to go to work.. to pay for the things you want and need... to help your family.. etc).

Let's not make this a matter of requiring experience with something that can just as easily be observed. Adults understand responsibility... so at some point between childhood and adulthood.. they had to learn it. I don't need to 'experience' the process to understand that point A leads to point B.

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Originally Posted by Aeradalia [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Used to breed fish to feed to an Oscar and a Ribbonsnake I had.... then I had a goliath waterbug that would eat the fish that died in the breeding tank... that was quite the 'ecosystem.'

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aaaaaaaaaaaaaahjahahajahaahajaaa.

that was funny.

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Originally Posted by Aeradalia [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I wasn't talking about 'kids'... I was talking about when they become adults..

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Some adults are resentful about a lot of stuff, too.

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Originally Posted by Aeradalia [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

If your son didn't want a pet... then why have one? If he didn't want it.. then it's safe to say that he didn't pick it out either. If another child wanted the pet, then why should he have to care for it?

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It's my daughter's dog, and my son is not expected to care for it, but he still has to live with it, and if you don't especially like dogs, you might be resentful when they misbehave. Fortunately, my boy isn't the type who carries petty grievances around. He loves his sister, and consented to the dog to make her happy, but he is totally hands-off.

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Originally Posted by Aeradalia [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I don't have to put into practice the theory that any child can learn responsibility....

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OK... you are entitled to your opinions, just as I am entitled to think that personality has a great deal to do with how responsible a person will be as an adult. My observations are based on actually raising kids, but you may have different experiences. I don't have a vested interest in you agreeing with me. :shrug:

And some of those resentful adults.. may be resentful about their parents denying them pets. Saying a lot of adults are resentful does not exclude the possibility they are resentful for a very specific reason.

Your son had the opportunity to agree to having a dog in the house... so it's not same as being resentful because the responsibilities of a pet was forced upon him... so really doesn't apply here.

Regardless of personality, anyone can learn responsibility, or else the military's method wouldn't work. Being a parent is no guarantee of having a good understanding of how a child thinks or even on how to properly raise one. See plenty of spoiled brats and physically violent children that support this. Sadly, no parent can ever be sure if they were a 'good' parent until their children are full grown or nearly so.

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Originally Posted by Aeradalia [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

And some of those resentful adults.. may be resentful about their parents denying them pets. Saying a lot of adults are resentful does not exclude the possibility they are resentful for a very specific reason.

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Don't you find it kind of pathetic to be carrying resentment into adulthood over the lack of a pet? I mean, as an adult, you can get whatever you want. Too many kids and young adults these days think just because they wanted something when they were growing up, they should have gotten it. Such a sense of entitlement!

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Originally Posted by Aeradalia [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Sadly, no parent can ever be sure if they were a 'good' parent until their children are full grown or nearly so.

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You mean like mine? :D :D :D (Yeah, they are good, too. REALLY good.)

Alright, this can be developed!

Breed insects in some tucked-away cupboard (used to catch wild mosquito larvae myself, doubt you can breed them but there oughta be others).

Feed that to the fish (supplement with regular fish flakes, allows for keeping something more than just the basic everyday fishies, and keep some simply to breed).

Feed the excess breeds to a snake.

Use the fish tank water for plants.

Can potentially breed fish to feed to carnivorous fishes, though that requires at least two tanks.