Is he abusive? What should I do?

I have been having some problems with my fiance, who I have been living with for 2 years. Most of the time he is a really amazing boyfriend, although he can be a bit selfish and we usually end up doing things he wants to do, and he does joke around about being the man and me not being able to do anything about it when he is mean and play wrestling with me or slapping me on the butt, he is very against men hitting women, sees men and women as equal and doesnt like typical gender stereotypes. However, once in awhile he explodes and it really scares me.

He used to just loose his temper and throw a tantrum, throw things, punch walls and call me cruel names. Then he made an effort to do some anger management exercises and it got a lot better. Then last week, he poured pepsi on my head while I was sitting in the bed and then hit me in the back of the head, yelled at me to clean it up and came towards me with his fists balled when I didnt do it right away. I was changing my wet clothes before cleaning the bed, and when I was naked, he tried to throw me out of the house because I hadnt cleaned up the mess. I cleaned up and he apologized and promised to get help.

Then last night, we went to a party (something we never do, because while he likes hanging out with his friends, he doesnt like to socialize much and really hates when I do) and it was a lot of fun, then today he began calling me a slut because a guy at the party (who I told I had a boyfriend to and talked about him the whole time to) was talking to me. We were driving when he exploded and he smacked me, when I started crying he yelled at me more (which he always does) and kept threatening to leave me by the side of the road. Again, he apologized afterwards. When I told him that he really scared me it visibly upset him.

The thing is, I dont think he is abusive because it is not something that he does only with me, he has gotten into a lot of fights in his past and he gets aggressive and confrontational even when it is not in his best interest (it is not a calculated or manipulative thing, it is like he blanks out and is no longer himself). The reason I think he may be abusive is because even when he is not exploding, he does things that he knows I dont like (such as the playful kicking and hitting) and always wants to do things his way and do what he wants and when I complain or say anything he asks me what Im going to do about it. Its like he believes that because I am not physically stronger than him, there is no need to do anything he doesnt want to do on my behalf.

All that being said, he has shown me in the past to be a truly wonderful boyfriend. He has travelled out of the country with me to see my family, when I get in trouble or sick he is there by my side no matter what. When we got pregnant a few months ago, he told me that whatever I wanted to do he would stay by my side and support me. And when we both made a decision not to keep the baby, because there were already health issues noticed, he supported me each step of the way, ran to the store to get what I needed for cramps etc. and sat with me and held my hand throughout the procedure.

I dont understand how he can be so supportive and so selfish and abusive at the same time. I do love him with all my heart and really cannot imagine my life without him. But I am beginning to feel at the end of my rope. And if he ever does punch me in anger or something like that, there is no way I will be able to stay... I dont want it to come to that and am not sure at this point what to do. If I heard this from a friend or even a stranger in the past I would have just said to leave, unfortunately it seems it really isnt that simple. I dont know at this point if my life truly would be better without him. I was always a very self-reliant and happy-to-be-free single girl, a lot of guys tried to begin relationships with me and I never wanted any part of it because I never knew love was real and it just seemed like a hindrance so young (I was 22 when I met my current boyfriend) but now, I cannot imagine my life without him, I hate even being apart from him for short periods of time, I dont know if I could live the rest of my life without him, it just makes me feel totally naked to be without him. But things cant go on this way. Why does he act like he does? Is there anything I can do?

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He used to just loose his temper and throw a tantrum, throw things, punch walls and call me cruel names. Then he made an effort to do some anger management exercises and it got a lot better. Then last week, he poured pepsi on my head while I was sitting in the bed and then hit me in the back of the head, yelled at me to clean it up and came towards me with his fists balled when I didnt do it right away. I was changing my wet clothes before cleaning the bed, and when I was naked, he tried to throw me out of the house because I hadnt cleaned up the mess. I cleaned up and he apologized and promised to get help.

... then today he began calling me a slut because a guy at the party (who I told I had a boyfriend to and talked about him the whole time to) was talking to me. We were driving when he exploded and he smacked me, when I started crying he yelled at me more (which he always does) and kept threatening to leave me by the side of the road. Again, he apologized afterwards. When I told him that he really scared me it visibly upset him.

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He's controlling, verbally, emotionally and physically abusive.

The pattern of abuse is like a downward spiral that goes round and round in a predictable way:

1. Tension: You may experience verbal attacks or feel like you need to “walk on eggshells” to avoid triggering abuse.

2. Explosion: Something sets off the abuser. You are late getting home or you forget to fill the gas tank or the laundry is not folded or you were too nice to the clerk. The tension of phase one erupts into an episode of abuse.

3. Honeymoon: Things seem great. Your partner apologizes and makes promises. You accept the excuses—it was just stress or alcohol, or it was your fault. You may get roses or a dinner out or new lingerie. You tell yourself the abuse is over.

4. The cycle continues, accelerates, and intensifies.

Abusers say “it will never happen again.” But it will happen again. And again and again. Unless you get help.

Signs of abuse:

Separation
You've noticed you've rarely seen your friends or family in the past few months so you go ahead and mention this. Suddenly he wants to fight with you and does all but physically stop you from leaving. If he's trying to alienate you from your loved ones, this is your first red flag.

Degradation
He constantly puts you down and makes you feel unworthy. At this point, you don't even try to have your own shine or sparkle for fear that he will break you down.

Listlessness
You notice you don't feel passion for anything any more -- even life. Your weekend routine consists of hanging out with him and fighting and you don't even seek out things to feel excited or passionate about.

Friendships
Not only does he put you down, that kicks into overdrive when he has an "audience." If you notice his aggression is in overdrive when other people are around, this is a definite red flag.

Violence
Slap fights and wrestling matches ensue between couples -- but you know when he has physically crossed the line. Even if it's once that he's pushed you, hit you or otherwise -- that's a loud and clear sign.

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The thing is, I dont think he is abusive because it is not something that he does only with me, he has gotten into a lot of fights in his past and he gets aggressive and confrontational

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How naive are you?

While a healthier person might find it very difficult to understand why a woman would remain the target of abuse, here are things I have heard from women (and men) in toxic relationships:

1. “His anger shows he cares.”
2. “No one has loved me like this.”
3. “If I leave he’ll take the children.”
4. “I am so unlovable (bad, ugly, hurt, used) I deserve abuse.”
5. “My past is catching up with me. I deserve to be mistreated.”
6. “He is not abusive. I’m just a slow learner.”
7. “God is teaching me: tough times are lessons from God.”
8. “I cannot make it alone.”
9. “Relationships are never perfect. They all hurt in some way.”
10. “You make your bed. You lie in it.”
11. “Things will improve when we have children (get married, get a house, a job).”
12. “He’s really a good person. When I make him angry he can’t help it.”
13. “As long as he is sorry I can put up with anything.”
14. “Things are improving, he doesn’t hit me like he used to.”
15. “God will change him if I am obedient. The Bible says so.”

The intensity, anger, aggression, in a toxic dance, places the victim on center-stage, and this focus is apparently experienced as some form of love.

Are you blind or what? You ARE in a severely abusive relation. Get the hell out of there before he destroys you. Believe me if I tell you, it only will get worse. Get out while you still can. Cut all contact and get a restraining order against him.

NO EXCUSES. Take control of your life.

Thanks for your advice and I really appreciate all of the information. I have been looking up information on abuse for awhile, thats why everytime he does something thats on the list of things to look out for it freaks me out.

What I meant with the last thing I said though wasnt that he makes fun of me around other people or when its not in his best interest (he would never publicly disrespect me or mock me or say anything bad about me to other people) it is that, when I look at those sites or read about abuse, one of the things I have noticed they say is sections like "how you know that he is manipulative and abusive and doesnt have a 'problem' " that an abuser does not have a problem because he possesses certain traits (like that if someone comes in when he is exploding he will stop, that he only picks on you and not people his own size, that he has never exploded at his boss or a police officer etc) he doesnt have those traits. He has exploded at someone who saw him exploding at me, he has exploded at people like his boss and police, and he has gotten into fights with people his own size.

Also, when he comes down from his explosive phase, he doesnt blame alcohol (he doesnt drink or take drugs) or stress or me, he blames himself. And as I mentioned, unlike other abusive personalities (from the info I can gather) he doesnt discourage me to see my family, he doesnt have strict gender roles and thinks women should be able to work, make their own choices etc.

I know how it sounds, and if he is abusive and I am in danger, then I will leave. I dont feel as if I am simply making excuses, I feel that as he is the only man I have ever been in love with (and not because of the explosiveness, I hate that part, but because of his intelligence, sense of humor, the fact that we finish one another's sentences, that he was very sweet and still can be, and many other things) I should at least ask, are those traits that he does not posses of any importance? And is it possible that because of the specific traits of an abuser he does and does not possess that he has IED or some other explosive anger disorder?

Uh, you should have left the first time he started screaming obscenities at you. Instead you stayed. You should have left the first time he abused you. Instead you stayed.

Either get out now, or continue to be the victim for the rest of your life in all of your relationships going forward. That is, if you don't end up dead trying to leave him.

Get out of that relationship now, go get counseling and join a support group.

As for talking to a guy all night about how nice your boyfriend is? My wife (when we were first dating) once spent an evening drinking with people and telling a guy about how amazing I was, and how great my cock was, and yadda.

Later that evening she went home and ****ed him, then ****ed me over.

So, it's one thing to talk to a guy because he's a friend. But talking to Joe Random Guy at a party all night? It's bad form, and a worrisome sign to just about any guy you're dating. This doesn't make him right to hit you or call you names, but he would (were he not abusive) have the right to be upset and concerned about your commitment to the relationship.

If the roles were reversed, you'd be upset at him about such things.

But that's neither here nor there about he most important part. WHich is, you have to leave him NOW. Like do it yesterday.

I would never talk about our sex life with anyone, let alone some guy at a party. I was sitting with the guy, his girlfriend, my boyfriend's sister and brother in law and two other girls. We were all talking, I was talking a lot about my boyfriend in general (but nothing bad and certainly nothing personal). This prompted him to ask if the two of us were an item (a lot of people at the party had never met before) I said yes, he asked if we were serious, I said yes. Then he asked again and a girl who roomed with his sister hit him in the shoulder and said "yeah, they're getting married". I didnt talk to him the rest of the night, was mostly just talking to my boyfriend's brother in law and sister. Then when we left, I told him about everything that we had all talked about outside (including that) because I dont hide things from him, and to me someone who doesnt know us asking if we were together is not a big deal, him asking again made me think he may have been hitting on me (but I am not going to be arrogant and assume that, especially since the guy's girlfriend was sitting there) but I responded to his questions that we were in fact serious and on top of it told my boyfriend. Who was fine with it and thought it was funny last night, it was only later today when he exploded that he mentioned it.

I would also never cheat on him. I love him and I dont believe in or understand infidelity (if he ever cheated on me, which he wouldnt because its certainly not the type of person he is and he has the same views on infidelity as I do, then I would leave him in a second). If you are going to cheat on someone then you should not be in that relationship because something is obviously wrong. He also knows that I wouldnt cheat on him, which is why I do not understand his jealousy even more. Most of the time he is not so possessive, as I said, its when he explodes that it comes out. And no, I didnt leave him when he first called me names, because it was so out of left field, he was the nicest man I have ever met and it was one of the things that made me fall in love with him in the first place, not to mention that I am not perfect. I have drank too much and been a bitch, I have made plenty of mistakes, so I didnt feel it right to not overlook some of his. What I am wondering is at what point are you working together on your problems and sticking with one another (as he has agreed to get help if we can figure out what the heck is causing his episodes) and at what point is it just hopeless? And as I mentioned before, how can you tell if it is abuse or if he has a problem like IED or boarderline personality disorder?

I think the fact that you are even asking this question means you already know the answer but don't want to admit it.

Yes he is abusive.

Is it normal to fight? yes. Is it normal for him to hit you, throw soda on you, humiliate you. No ****ing way.

Leave while you still have the will and the means to.

I guess you have the need for a clearer picture, so here it goes:

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He used to just loose his temper and throw a tantrum, throw things, punch walls and call me cruel names. Then he made an effort to do some anger management exercises and it got a lot better.

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Another incident happend and he apologized and promised to get help.

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That's 2 strikes: Abusers say “it will never happen again.” But it will happen again. And again and again.

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Then last week, he poured pepsi on my head while I was sitting in the bed and then hit me in the back of the head, yelled at me to clean it up and came towards me with his fists balled when I didnt do it right away. I was changing my wet clothes before cleaning the bed, and when I was naked, he tried to throw me out of the house because I hadnt cleaned up the mess.

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He poured soda on your head (humiliation)
He hit you on the back of your head (physical abuse)
He yelled at you to clean it up (verbal abuse)
He came towards you with his fists balled when you didn't jump for him (control)
He tried to throw you out naked (more humiliation)
He called you names (emotional abuse)

Emotional Abuse
The goal of emotional abuse is to destroy the victim's self-esteem. He blames her for his violence, puts her down, calls her names and makes threats against her. Over time, she no longer believes she deserves to be treated with respect and she blames herself for his violence. For some survivors of domestic violence, the emotional abuse may be more difficult to heal from than the physical abuse.

Physical Abuse
Physical abuse includes any physical act intended to control, harm, injure or inflict physical pain on another person. Physical abuse may consist of just one incident or it may happen repeatedly. Behaviours can range from spitting on someone to committing murder.

Verbal Abuse
Verbal abuse (also called reviling) is a form of abusive behavior involving the use of language. It is a form of profanity that can occur with or without the use of expletives. Whilst oral communication is the most common form of verbal abuse, it includes abusive words in written form. Verbal abuse is a pattern of behavior that can seriously interfere with one's positive emotional development and, over time, can lead to significant detriment to one's self-esteem, emotional well-being, and physical state. It has been further described as an ongoing emotional environment organized by the abuser for the purposes of control.

Humiliation
Humiliation (also called stultification) is the abasement of pride, which creates mortification or leads to being reduced to lowliness or submission. Humiliation of one person by another (the humiliator) is often used as a way of asserting power over them, and is a common form of oppression.

Control
Control is a form of abuse used by the abuser to keep the victim in line and so that the abuser is in 'charge'. Control is almost always accompanied by Bullying and Anger.

- Controlling by diminishing your partner:

- Belittling / Offensive jokes

- Mimicking your partner

- Patronizing

- Ignoring, "I'm not listening to you"

- Avoiding eye contact, turning away

- Expecting partner to talk to you while you're watching TV, reading, game playing

- Words like "Sooo" or "So what!" or "That means NOTHING to me" or "Whatever"

- Bafflegabbing - talking in ways intended to mislead or baffle your partner

- Insulting your partner

- Making inappropriate sounds- Making inappropriate facial expressions-rolled eyes, grimaces, deep sighs

- Starting a sentence then stating, "Forget it.."

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"how you know that he is manipulative and abusive and doesnt have a 'problem' "

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He does have a problem: he's abusive, that IS his problem. Stop trying to sweettalk it. Mostly:

STOP BEING IN DENIAL, YOU ARE IN AN ABUSIVE RELATION

I'd love to say: "You're an idiot." But unfortunately you cannot blame the abused for making stupid decisions. They are simply too afraid to leave the person, or too stupid to know better.

I don't yell abuse lightly, everything you've outlined are things I would NEVER. I repeat, NEVER do to a woman. I've been in fights with women, I've yelled at women. I have never threatened to hit a woman, let alone actually hit one.

Would I hit a woman in self defense? Yes, to get away or if she was trying to kill me. Would I hit someone I love and tell her, "oh, I'm sorry, i'll never do it again!"

Look, it's his problem to fix and address. YOU CANNOT MAKE HIM GET BETTER. He thinks it is ok to settle problems with verbal abuse, physical abuse, and threats. THIS IS NOT OK.

You need help, you need counseling, and most of all you need to dump that man yesterday. I've met many abused women, I've dated abused women. Trust me, that's abuse. Plain, simple, and whether or not he has a problem your life is in jeopardy!

Thanks for the responses (Especially the information about control tactics, I had no idea that some of those things where meant to control rather than just playing around)But no one really addressed my question, and I think that is because I phrased it badly. I know that based upon the things he has done that it is an abusive relationship, my question was about him and what type of the three abusive personalities he would fall under based upon his individual traits. The three types are family-only (which doesn’t seem to fit since he is aggressive with other people more often than with me), boarderline/dysphoric, and antisocial/general (I know he doesn’t have antisocial personality disorder because I studied that quite intensely back when I was a grad student and I can spot a psychopath a mile away). So, would that mean he was boarderline? And if he has BPD, which is both a type of abusive personality and a treatable disorder, does anyone know what its like to go to treatment for it, the curablity or has anyone been in a relationship with someone who has it or has anyone had it?
Also, the reason I am staying is because I would like to figure out what the hell is wrong with him rather than just leave. It is not because I think God will change him (Im an atheist). It is not because I am hoping blindly he will change (I like his personality, I just don’t like his outbursts). Nor would I ever stay if he punched, kicked, shoved me out of anger or if he cheated on me. I do not have a financial reason to stay as I come from a wealthy family and could leave quite easily. And I am not insecure, I know how beautiful I am, that I am highly educated, well-travelled, intelligent, interesting, funny and more often than not a nice person. (and he hasn’t done anything to tear that down either, he tells me how beautiful and intelligent I am like everyone else, also praises all my other positive traits. Part of the problem, in fact, is that he has often asked me what I am doing with him, that unnecessary insecurity also seems to fit the BPD mold).

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Originally Posted by Yggdrasil [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

He poured soda on your head (humiliation)
He hit you on the back of your head (physical abuse)
He yelled at you to clean it up (verbal abuse)
He came towards you with his fists balled when you didn't jump for him (control)
He tried to throw you out naked (more humiliation)
He called you names (emotional abuse)

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STOP BEING IN DENIAL, YOU ARE IN AN ABUSIVE RELATION

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Re-read all this again. You need to leave this jerk, and yesterday.

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Originally Posted by gerberakasbah [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Also, the reason I am staying is because I would like to figure out what the hell is wrong with him rather than just leave.

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It is the ultimate in stupid and self-abusive to stay. It is also irresponsible. What if you get pregnant by this chode?

You, my dear, are afraid of something. Deeply afraid. Nice try saying your motives for staying are intellectual, but that's just crap. You know it, and so do we.

You want to study abusive guys? Fine. Dump this ass, go get a psychology PhD, and counsel jerks like this for a living. Then, go home to your wonderful, supportive husband who worships the ground you walk on, and you him.

You have the female version of Shining Knight Syndrome. Read the thread link attached & pay particular attention to the ones about females who stay with guys like your jerk BF. You are trying to develop your own poor sense of self-esteem by 'figuring' or 'fixing' this nasty man. Don't. Be. A. Martyr. Noone will think better of you for it.

[url]http://www.loveforum.net/love-advice-forum/26633-description-shining-knight-syndrome.html[/url]

gerberakasbah,

thank you for providing more information on the situation.

From what I gather, and I only have the information provided by you of course, I would say it could be Borderline Personality Disorder or Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. It's hard to keep them apart because many of the symptoms are similar.

Only a professional would be able to make a correct diagnosis. I suggest not to attempt to become his psychiatrist. All you can do is support him, you can not cure him or help him. The only person who can help him, is he himself.

If he does not want to receive professional help (and I am talking years of counseling and working on his issues), you're better of moving on.

Borderline Personality Disorder

A person with BPD may experience intense bouts of anger, depression, and anxiety that may last only hours, or at most a day. These may be associated with episodes of impulsive aggression, self-injury, and drug or alcohol abuse. Distortions in cognition and sense of self can lead to frequent changes in long-term goals, career plans, jobs, friendships, gender identity, and values. Sometimes people with BPD view themselves as fundamentally bad, or unworthy. They may feel unfairly misunderstood or mistreated, bored, empty, and have little idea who they are. Such symptoms are most acute when people with BPD feel isolated and lacking in social support, and may result in frantic efforts to avoid being alone.

People with BPD often have highly unstable patterns of social relationships. While they can develop intense but stormy attachments, their attitudes towards family, friends, and loved ones may suddenly shift from idealization (great admiration and love) to devaluation (intense anger and dislike). Thus, they may form an immediate attachment and idealize the other person, but when a slight separation or conflict occurs, they switch unexpectedly to the other extreme and angrily accuse the other person of not caring for them at all. Even with family members, individuals with BPD are highly sensitive to rejection, reacting with anger and distress to such mild separations as a vacation, a business trip, or a sudden change in plans. These fears of abandonment seem to be related to difficulties feeling emotionally connected to important persons when they are physically absent, leaving the individual with BPD feeling lost and perhaps worthless. Suicide threats and attempts may occur along with anger at perceived abandonment and disappointments.

People with BPD exhibit other impulsive behaviors, such as excessive spending, binge eating and risky sex.

Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder

Post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) develops after a terrifying ordeal that involved physical harm or the threat of physical harm. The person who develops PTSD may have been the one who was harmed, the harm may have happened to a loved one, or the person may have witnessed a harmful event that happened to loved ones or strangers.

PTSD was first brought to public attention in relation to war veterans, but it can result from a variety of traumatic incidents, such as mugging, rape, torture, being kidnapped or held captive, child abuse, car accidents, train wrecks, plane crashes, bombings, or natural disasters such as floods or earthquakes.

People with PTSD may startle easily, become emotionally numb (especially in relation to people with whom they used to be close), lose interest in things they used to enjoy, have trouble feeling affectionate, be irritable, become more aggressive, or even become violent. They avoid situations that remind them of the original incident, and anniversaries of the incident are often very difficult. PTSD symptoms seem to be worse if the event that triggered them was deliberately initiated by another person, as in a mugging or a kidnapping.

Most people with PTSD repeatedly relive the trauma in their thoughts during the day and in nightmares when they sleep. These are called flashbacks. Flashbacks may consist of images, sounds, smells, or feelings, and are often triggered by ordinary occurrences, such as a door slamming or a car backfiring on the street. A person having a flashback may lose touch with reality and believe that the traumatic incident is happening all over again.

Putting a label on this guy changes nothing & only distracts from the real issue, which is: she need to leave this tard, asap.

Aren't you at ALL angry, Gerber, that you are spending all this energy on a guy who treats you like shit?

Not even a *little* angry (tho you should be a LOT)? You sound like a fundamentally decent girl. What terrible sin do you feel you need to atone for by solving this guy's rather serious issues for him? He's not a child. He's an adult who needs to man up to his issues & fix them. He will do this best if you aren't there to buffer him from his problems. Are you married? Did you take a vow to help each other through thick & thin? Hell, even married folks need not put up with this kind of crap.

Dump him. After you have done so, and when you are certain you are *safe* (take nothing for granted with this guy), send him the card of a decent therapist in his area.

Just saying.

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Originally Posted by IndiReloaded [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Putting a label on this guy changes nothing & only distracts from the real issue, which is: she need to leave this tard, asap.

Just saying.

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Oh I totaly agree, while HE is working on his issues, she has to leave from the vicinity and live at her own place. That's why I emphasized in bold:

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Only a professional would be able to make a correct diagnosis. I suggest not to attempt to become his psychiatrist. All you can do is support him, you can not cure him or help him. The only person who can help him, is he himself.

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Hope that makes more sense now.

Just read the physical abuse definition again. Glad it said nothing about clandestinely sneaking up to her while she's showering, poking your codpiece through the shower curtain when her back is turned, and wee'ng on her leg as it takes nearly a bladder full for her to notice the difference in temperature.

(I call it revenge)

I think even supporting him (beyond telling him to get help), is a bad idea.

This guy is a big, black hole. He will suck her dry of energy, emotions, self-esteem, giving nothing in return.

It is a fundamental truth about relationships that people really don't change. At least, YOU can't make someone change, he's got to want this for himself, to better himself as a human being. Even YOU aren't a good enough reason, babe, and if he says he'll change for you don't believe him for a second no matter how much he cries or how sincere he seems. He's just not there. You are holding on to a drowning man & he is going to suck you down with him if you don't let go.

Run, Gerber. Run as fast as you can & don't look back.

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Originally Posted by Doc Durian [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Just read the physical abuse definition again. Glad it said nothing about clandestinely sneaking up to her while she's showering, poking your codpiece through the shower curtain when her back is turned, and wee'ng on her leg as it takes nearly a bladder full for her to notice the difference in temperature.

(I call it revenge)

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I actually think that could be very funny, depending on the context. One is already in the shower, after all. Perhaps you could argue you were just getting the pipes primed for the main event. :D

Well, it's her choice, you can't control her either.

If she thinks the relation is salvagable, we can talk till we are blue in the face, she's gona do whatever she thinks or feels is right.

Some people never learn, some are slow learners and some have to burn themselves severely before they learn.

All we can do is give advice and try to make sense to the people we relay that advice to.

The rest is up to them.

You can't fit a square peg in a round hole (unless you use a large hammer).

I know someone is gona make fun of that one... :)

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Originally Posted by Doc Durian [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

clandestinely sneaking up to her while she's showering, poking your codpiece through the shower curtain when her back is turned, and wee'ng on her leg as it takes nearly a bladder full for her to notice the difference in temperature.

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That actualy may turn some people on... kinky :emot68:

Thank you for the information, especially the stuff on BPD, I know its hard to comment on a situation when I cant really post all the information there is to give as it would take forever, but you answered my question and gave me a lot of useful advice and info. I dont want to study him (I moved to a different discipline for the rest of my graduate work, after I finished my Masters), I am staying with him because he is supportive and he is kind and does praise me, but he explodes (with everyone) he has been there for me everytime Ive screwed up and through any problem Ive had psychological or otherwise, I dont see a reason to dump a man that has stood by my side just because he now has a problem (if he ever hit me in anger or humiliated me in public or cheated on me that would be a different story, if he ever hit me especially he knows that I would not only leave him but have him locked up in a second). He does want to get help and we are trying to find the best way for him to do that, I think it would depend on what his exact problem is. He needs it, not just because of me but because he looses his temper easily with people in general and that will get him in trouble one day if he doesnt deal with it.

He did hit you.

You are in denial. Your schooling means nothing about this, I've known plenty of silly grad students, taught a number of them.

When emotions go up, intellect goes down. You aren't thinking rationally about this.

How would you advise a close friend or relation (say a sister) about a guy like this?

Anyway, good luck. Clearly you aren't here for advice, just to hear what you want to hear.

I never implied that my schooling meant anything. Someone suggested that because I had studied psychology I may be trying to study him, I was merely pointing out that I changed disciplines for a reason and dont have an interest in doing that. I dont advise people when it comes to relationships, because I cant answer their questions without being with them all the time, but definately if he was physically abusive I would suggest she leave or if he was sexually abusive, at the moment my fiance has been verbally abusive... which I know is a serious problem and leaving has certainly crossed my mind more than once, like I said I told him if he ever punched or kicked or hit me out of anger I would leave him and call the police, he doesnt think he ever will (he is so feministic I think the thought freaks the hell out of him) but I am more suspicious, because I know that verbal abuse and flipping out like this can lead to physical abuse. I would like to find the root of the problem and stop it before that happens because I honestly could not imagine my life without him. I never wanted to be in a relationship before, but when I met him... he's the one. I am not scared of being alone (love to be alone), not scared I wont meet anyone else (though I have absolutely no desire to be with another man ever) and not scared financially or that I cant handle life alone (cause Ive travelled everywhere alone, have lots of friends, supportive family... Id be fine) I am staying with him because I dont believe in throwing a serious relationship away because of a problem. I can see that being seen as naive, I just think I have different beliefs when it comes to love. There are some things I would not be able to deal with (being physically abused, sexually abused or cheated on) but aside from that, I would like to be there for him.

I dont consider the smack as being physically abusive, for me thats a punch or something intended to actually hurt. With us, the line is always kind of blurred though because we both enjoy play fighting, we both smack and slap etc. we both take kenpo and brazilian jiu jitsu and practice that for real (in the course of which Ive often choked him, put him in an arm bar, flipped him etc even though he is far stronger than me) he is well trained, he is very muscular and we have weapons (guns and knives) in the house, he has never (nor would he ever) threatened me with those or with his stature or with any intent to hurt me... which he easily could. He comes from a military family, both his parents were in the military and he has been taught to respect women. When he explodes he goes off verbally, and the one smack was light and placed somewhere he has smacked me many times when we were having fun. Like I said, I know it can escalate... and if it does I will leave, but I just dont see him being physical or hurting me physically.

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Originally Posted by gerberakasbah [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Then last week, he poured pepsi on my head while I was sitting in the bed and then hit me in the back of the head, yelled at me to clean it up and came towards me with his fists balled when I didnt do it right away. I was changing my wet clothes before cleaning the bed, and when I was naked, he tried to throw me out of the house because I hadnt cleaned up the mess. I cleaned up and he apologized and promised to get help.

then today he began calling me a slut because a guy at the party (who I told I had a boyfriend to and talked about him the whole time to) was talking to me. We were driving when he exploded and he smacked me, when I started crying he yelled at me more (which he always does) and kept threatening to leave me by the side of the road. Again, he apologized afterwards. When I told him that he really scared me it visibly upset him.

The thing is, I dont think he is abusive because it is not something that he does only with me, he has gotten into a lot of fights in his past and he gets aggressive and confrontational even when it is not in his best interest

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I repeat: HE HAS ALREADY HIT YOU.

You need to leave, now. He won't change, it will only get worse. You don't want to believe this, but it is the truth.

If he truly loves you, the very best thing you could do for him is leave him so he (perhaps) has an epiphany about where his life is going. Sometimes, people come into the lives of others to teach them an important lesson. And his, I suspect, is that this kind of behaviour costs people important things in life.

Somehow, you must believe that this chode is the best you deserve from life. I assure you, you can do much better. Every second you stay with this guy is a moment lost with this new, better man. Go find him & leave this one to sort himself out.

But, I can see already, for all your education its wasted. You are going to stay with this idiot, and have children with him so he can abuse them too. I really hate emotional cowards like you. Bleh.

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Originally Posted by gerberakasbah [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

we both take kenpo and brazilian jiu jitsu and practice that for real (in the course of which Ive often choked him, put him in an arm bar, flipped him etc even though he is far stronger than me)

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I train. What you describe isn't the same as his abusive behaviour towards you. Training is different, with different motives. You aren't supposed to hurt your training partner.

Now I *really* think your guy is pathetic. Sorry, but anyone who understands budo knows he should NEVER behave the way your BF does.

Tell your Sensei (privately) what this guy has been doing to you. See what he says to you (and does to him). If you are reluctant to tell him, ask yourself why.

He doesnt hurt me. I feel like I am talking to a wall (which yes I can see you do as well). It doesnt matter what the situation is, you are not listening. I said that I do those things, he is very gentle with me when we train. He has never physically hurt me (as in I have never been in pain from anything he has done). Ive hurt him, because he wants me to be prepared if someone actually attacks me (same reason he always leaves a gun with me).

Like I said, while I would prefer to air on the side of caution and assume that it could escalate, the chances of him ever hitting me are pretty slim. He hates men who hurt women (and has actually gotten into fights with those who have over it before, he's also helped friends in that situation by letting them stay here almost as much as he hates scum like rapists, adulterers and pedophiles). He has never tried to hold me back from anything, he always encourages me to go after my dreams, he has always been there when Ive had problems which have been on par with his, he is the perfect fiance with the exception of his temper (which in 2 years has come out 4 or 5 times with me, the problem is usually with other people). I think it is bad form to leave someone who needs you behind. I know how you feel about hearing this, as I feel the same when those around me stay with people who cheat on them, but that is my morality. He wants help, I want him to get help. I came here for advice from people who have had this anger problem themselves or been with those who had it. And thankfully, one person did help me, but I would appreciate it if you kept any further beliefs on my relationship to yourself because unless you know someone you cannot pass judgment upon them (well I suppose you can, but I dont think it makes too much sense)

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Originally Posted by gerberakasbah [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

He doesnt hurt me. I feel like I am talking to a wall (which yes I can see you do as well). It doesnt matter what the situation is, you are not listening. I said that I do those things, he is very gentle with me when we train. He has never physically hurt me (as in I have never been in pain from anything he has done). Ive hurt him, because he wants me to be prepared if someone actually attacks me (same reason he always leaves a gun with me).

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No, he just hits other things, pours drinks on you, and berates you verbally. Sorry, but that's still abuse.

We ARE listening, and it's not just one, or two, or three of us saying that these are classic signs of an abusive relationship. It's ALL of us minus you. Do you get that?

Go read through threads, we don't scream abuse at the drop of a hat here, but when we do it's because it's ****ing abuse. Get it through your thick skull that his treatment of you is NOT OK. He's demeaning, threatening, and abusive.

If he wasn't, why would you be here asking us for help on what you should do about this?

There's no shame in saying you're being abused, and that you need out. Life happens, bad relationships happen. This isn't a pride thing, this isn't an ego thing, this is your life we're worried about. You're a complete stranger to us, and we're worried about you losing your life. What more do you want us to say?

You came here for advice, and we're not giving you the answer you want, so you're blaming us. You're shifting the blame, changing your story, and trying to mitigate everything you said.

If you were trying to study him from a psychological standpoint then you'd have gone to a psychological forum. This is a love/relationship forum. You're being abused. We cannot help you. You need to help yourself, and get some counseling.

If you don't believe us, call a counseling hotline for domestic abuse and ask them for their opinion on the matter.

Gerber, has the verbal abuse hurt? I bet it has, perhaps even more than the physical abuse.

I have to point out that the caring things he does for you do NOT cancel out the abusive ones. It's not his temper that's the problem. It's how he expresses it. His actions. There are plenty of men out there who deal with their anger like mature adults (after all, it's children who bite, kick, and scream to get their way) and don't turn their SO's into their own personal punching bags. This is his way of controlling you.

Why are you afraid of leaving someone who hasn't enough respect for you (and probably women in general) to not treat you like this? This isn't a judgement on you, but a geniune question.

My advice? Leave him before he does something worse to you. There are plenty of men out there who will give you all the wonderful things WITHOUT the abuse. I highly doubt that you are going to get a non-abusive relationship with this guy. Do you want to go the long haul with this as the story of your life?

I have a feeling that, as Lite says, you need more help than we can give you here.

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Originally Posted by gerberakasbah [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Is he abusive? What should I do?

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Yes. You should leave him.

Also, you should stop lashing out at everyone on here who is trying to help you. You came here asking if your man was abusive and what you should do, and they all told you. Then, like Lite said, you started changing your story (why? to protect him from us?)


But of course you'll do neither.

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Originally Posted by gerberakasbah [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

He doesnt hurt me. I feel like I am talking to a wall (which yes I can see you do as well). It doesnt matter what the situation is, you are not listening. I said that I do those things, he is very gentle with me when we train. He has never physically hurt me (as in I have never been in pain from anything he has done). Ive hurt him, because he wants me to be prepared if someone actually attacks me (same reason he always leaves a gun with me).

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Don't you all get it? It's OKAY with her if he hits her, so long as it isn't very hard!

::shudders::

Good lord, this guy has guns.

i have seen many many scenarios such as this one and in none of them does the girl ever leave the guy.

gerberakasbah,

OK, so you have made up your mind. You won't leave this guy eventhough he has serious problems. You believe this is salvagable and you are willing to stand by him and support him while he is dealing with his issues.

I respect that.

I strongly advice though to set strong boundaries with him. Even if you don't see or accept his behaviour as very abusive, you'll still have to admit that it's unacceptable and unloving behaviour.

He has to deal with his issues, because I am very convinced that if he doesn't, his behaviour only will get worse.

I furthermore suggest to live on your own while he's taking care of his issues. I don't think that's an unreasonable request. My concern is that if you are around, that you very likely are enabling him to continue his behaviour.

I hope you understand this is something he has to take care of, all by himself.

That doesn't mean that you both don't have a relation anymore, it simply means that you take a step back and give him the time and space required to deal with his issues, while still being there for him.

I believe that's a very sensible way of doing this.

I hope what I am telling you makes sense.

Best of luck with your venture.

I think you should make a "safety plan" so you will know what to do and where to go when he loses control and hurts you. Pack a suitcase and keep it at a friend's house with some money, etc. - things you might not be able to access when he is raging.

Unfortunately, it sounds like you will need a plan.

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Originally Posted by vashti [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I think you should make a "safety plan" so you will know what to do and where to go when he loses control and hurts you. Pack a suitcase and keep it at a friend's house with some money, etc. - things you might not be able to access when he is raging.

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Good advice.

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Originally Posted by gerberakasbah [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

he doesnt like to socialize much and really hates when I do

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This story reminds me of my mothers case...

Now before you dismiss me as some 12 year old talking about his mommy, don't. I am 21, and have seen my mother in an abusive relationship for several years that I absolutely hate. I hate, with such a strong passion, and no, it isn't even abusive in a physical manner (any more at least...), but it still persists.

My mom met this guy about 5 years ago, and he seemed great. She started to stay with him, and saw more of his colors. He had a furious temper, and would act very abusive, physically, mentally, and emotionally. My mom would get so upset, and really, for me, it broke my heart. I told my mom to break things off, but she persisted in the relationship.

Yes, over time, he has gotten less physical, but that doesn't mean he has changed as a person. Now, she is 'stuck' with him. She spent all her time with him (similar to what you mentioned...) and all her friends are now of the past. Additionally, they have gotten a baby, which adds an extra layer of being 'stuck'... and in case your wondering, getting a baby won't take away his personality...

Hes overall an 'ok' guy, but he still has an abusive personality that I doubt can ever be fixed, and I resent this character trait of his. He still yells a lot, and will humiliate my mother, etc...



You are probably asking why I went on this tangent. Reading your story, reminded me a great deal of my mothers relationship.

I know you want to stay with him, and you may even say he doesnt hit you (my mom said that too, at least...), I would say you should kick him to the curve and leave him... which (!!), I know you probably wouldn't dare think of doing.

You are in love, you care about him, he is the world to you, and you don't want to simply let go, but honestly, he isn't good for you.

All the logical facts have been laid out for you. Indiereloaded, lite, Yggdrasil... they have all said the same thing. This relationship *is* absusive, whether you want to swallow that or not is your problem. No man should ever, EVER try to humiliate you. He should never try to cut you down, he shouldn't yell at you... the reason you are in a relationship is by no means to make your life more miserable...


...
One last thing...

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when I started crying he yelled at me more (which he always does) and kept threatening to leave me by the side of the road. Again, he apologized afterwards

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If he actually cared enough, he would not be pulling this shit. Yelling at you while you cry? That is absolute horse shit. And he apologizes again, and again and again...right? ask yourself this, if he really meant his apology, would he repeat his behavior? This is one thing I have also noticed in my mothers relationship, the on going cycle of apologize-and-do-again.

I think you should stay with him, but get yourself sterilized. Clearly, this "relationship" works for you, and if you're the kind of girl that thinks that the way he's treating you isn't abuse, you're perfect for him...

...but if you bring a child into this mess, I hope you fall into a pit of molten lava.

If you've don't all the research you say you have, you know damned well this is abuse. He doesn't have to hit you very hard to abuse you, you silly cow, and I don't feel sorry for you AT ALL.

[Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

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Originally Posted by misombra [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

i have seen many many scenarios such as this one and in none of them does the girl ever leave the guy.

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This^ is so terribly sad, Miso. But, I do believe there must be the occasional woman who is intelligent enough to see beyond her situation and find the courage to act before things degenerate too badly. I bet you those women are incredibly rare & special, but they must exist.