Why guys always stand me up or stop returning my messages?

Hi everyone,

I'm new here, signed up because I really need advice on this tricky business. Every time I meet a guy one of those two happens: either a) he asks me out but cancels at the last minute and stops answering my messages or b) we sleep together then he stops answering my messages. The second category usually comes back to me 6 months to a year later, apologizing for behaving in a way I certainly didn't deserve, but it is too late.
The big question is what's the matter? Why none of them ever told me face-to-face or even sent me a message saying "sorry, this isn't going to work, let's not meet up again"? Is it me or are all the men I've met so far disrespectful cowards?
I'm a nice girl, never had a nasty break-up or cheated on anyone, and it feels like they're taking advantage of me but I don't know how to stop it from happening. Some of my friend say I might be intimidating them because I'm a 23-year-old PhD student, I speak 3 languages fluently and I've lived on 3 continents by myself. Doesn't seem like a big deal to me, I know I wouldn't feel inferior if I met a guy who's more intelligent, independent, and brave than me, I'd rather welcome it!
So I'm asking you guys, would you mind dating such a girl? Or would you treat her like shit because it would make you feel like you have some sort of power over her?
I honestly want to meet someone and be happy in a relationship, so all sort of help is welcome.

Thanks!

'cause you pick the wrong sort of guys (for you)?

The reason they stop calling you after they have sex is because you slept with them before they developed any attachment to you.

About the guys who cancel plans at the last minute - yes, it probably has to do with the type of guy you are choosing in part, but I also think this happens to a lot of girls your age. Young men often have a very short attention span, and someone else may have caught their eye.

If you think guys are intimidated by your language ability and travel experience, then don't tell them about it until you know them better.

Thank you both!

Then why don't they tell me straight away they're not interested? This silence, this indifference, it hurts a lot more than blunt honesty...
That's the confusing part, I don't have a type, the guys are very different, and yet they treat me the same way. I have tried to make friends beforehand, but even those who know what I've been through behave exactly the same! And if I try to be mates after that, they still don't answer, as if I wasn't good enough to be just a friend! You're right vashti, I'll try to hide some things about myself, but now with Facebook everyone knows everything. Maybe I just don't "get" the whole dating game.

I'm really intrigued though: what happens in a guy's head when he gets a message from a girl he has spent some time with and doesn't reply? Does it mean I should give up or try harder to get through to him?

Sure, you sound interesting. I the other posts are great--yeah, don't put it all out there. I've done the doctorate thing...if you are a student at the moment, be realistic about relationships. When I was a student, the men and women paired off primarily out of necessity to drain the hormones out so that we could get back to studying. Hormones are a hindrance to good scholarship! So, relationships of convenience. Very few 23 year old graduate students are thinking serious about relationships. Have fun and be realistic about what is going on.

how do you meet these guys? I doubt they are from grad school - your description doesn't match. A fellow grad school student would be straight with you most likely from the beggining about what they want, because they will have to keep seeing you (and possibly share a study room with you) for the next 4 years or so (not to mention that you may find refereeing each other at some point).

So my guess is that these are guys you meet on dating sites? In which case, the answer may be in a simple supply and demand model.

Thank you that really makes me think...

CAM, I understand that, but what if I don't want simple physical release, where should I look? It turns out I haven't had a proper relationship in 5 years, because who's want to get serious with a girl who's only around for a few months anyway? That, or someone must be messing around with a voodoo doll.... :D

Yes, Nicholas_V, they aren't guys from university but friends of friends, or randoms met at parties/activities, and alas! 2 from the jungle of Internet dating. What puzzles me is the silence, what does it mean? And why saying they will call instead of just "goodbye"?

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Originally Posted by Elvirah [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Yes, Nicholas_V, they aren't guys from university but friends of friends, or randoms met at parties/activities, and alas! 2 from the jungle of Internet dating.

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Well, it sounds strange/unusual for "friends of friends", I suppose they are just inconsiderate (happens a lot in this age group). For random people and internet dates, it is hardly surprising: they have nothing to lose, so either they're just looking to get laid, or they may be looking for more and, for whatever reason, they don't think they can have it from you so they don't get back in touch (there is no cost to them acting like this, as they will probably not have to see you again).

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Originally Posted by Elvirah [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

What puzzles me is the silence, what does it mean? And why saying they will call instead of just "goodbye"?

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Because it is easier + see my earlier point on opportunity cost. We don't live in an ideal world unfortunately.

Change your search strategy and get to know someone better before you set your hopes up. Good relationships do not come easy most of the times.

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Originally Posted by Elvirah [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Thank you that really makes me think...

CAM, I understand that, but what if I don't want simple physical release, where should I look? It turns out I haven't had a proper relationship in 5 years, because who's want to get serious with a girl who's only around for a few months anyway? That, or someone must be messing around with a voodoo doll.... :D

Yes, Nicholas_V, they aren't guys from university but friends of friends, or randoms met at parties/activities, and alas! 2 from the jungle of Internet dating. What puzzles me is the silence, what does it mean? And why saying they will call instead of just "goodbye"?

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In all seriousness (not at all tongue in cheek)...but I haven't had a normal relationship (Full Stop). I think it is just tied to being in academia. Most of my colleagues marry other PHD's because they are both "living on the run." Academia is brutal on relationships. The spouses or serious significant others have to put up with a lot of crap because our lives (yours and mine) are not 9 to 5 in any way. By Saturday, I'm a drooling idiot sitting at the breakfast table at home. By Sunday evening, I'm mentally re-adjusted...just in time for Monday morning. And this is actually pretty "kick back" these days. The previous 20 years have been working 20 hours a day. Had I been married or with a sig. other, it would not have been a "normal" relationship in any way.

Fortunately, my gf comes from a family of research faculty so she at least understands; whether it bothers her or not is not clear yet.

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Originally Posted by CAM [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Academia is brutal on relationships. The spouses or serious significant others have to put up with a lot of crap because our lives (yours and mine) are not 9 to 5 in any way. By Saturday, I'm a drooling idiot sitting at the breakfast table at home. By Sunday evening, I'm mentally re-adjusted...just in time for Monday morning. And this is actually pretty "kick back" these days. The previous 20 years have been working 20 hours a day. Had I been married or with a sig. other, it would not have been a "normal" relationship in any way.

Fortunately, my gf comes from a family of research faculty so she at least understands; whether it bothers her or not is not clear yet.

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Tell me about it... What is your discipline? I am an AP in applied econ (just started racing the clock in tenure track)

Probably just bad luck.

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Originally Posted by CAM [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Academia is brutal on relationships.

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So not only do I have love insecurities, but also career insecurities now, damn! :D

Thanks sadie_genie, I thought about that too, but it's uncanny how it happens exactly the same way with guys of various cultural background, age (19 to 42), and profession. They just lose interest, ignore my offer of friendship, and reappear a year or so later. I give up trying to understand.

I think I'm going to follow all the advice above, and stop losing my time with guys who don't have the same expectations, because I'm silly if I believe I can make them change their mind. Sounds like a bad case of "he just not that into you" on a large scale.

Guys like to take the lead so maybe turn your persona down a notch. Don't go off boasting about your PHD or how you speak 3 languages, etc. Focus on having them talk about themselves...guys like a women that takes an interest in them. Keep it light with casual conversation about tv shows, movies or music. Be a little submissive.....I know I know that's not the person that you are, I'm not either but you want to attract a man you have to play up that role a bit.

As for they guys that stop talking to you after sex....those are the kind that only want sex and with do and say anything to get sex. Keep your pants on and your legs closed until the guy show an actual commitment to you. Someone that wants to spend time with you, introduce you to his friends, invites you to family events, etc.

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Originally Posted by smackie9 [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Be a little submissive.....I know I know that's not the person that you are, I'm not either but you want to attract a man you have to play up that role a bit.

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Indeed... When he discovers it little by little is a guy likely to be more comfortable with it? I used to put it all out there so that we won't lose our time if he's got a problem with who I am. Of course it didn't work, and oh does he have a problem with that!

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Originally Posted by smackie9 [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Keep your pants on and your legs closed until the guy show an actual commitment to you.

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My mistake, I don't see sex as the conclusion of the seduction game, but just another domain in which to try our compatibilty, like a philosophical conversation or a hike together. In fact, sleeping with someone relieves the sexual tension between us and actually allows me to start having feelings... I know I have to change, but I ask what's the matter with me I get mixed replies: once I'm not needy enough, and another time I'm too present. Life isn't an American sitcom (SATC and the likes), it would be ridiculous to call because I've waited the "right" amount of time since his call instead of just because I feel like it... wouldn't it?
Oh I'm just too French when it comes to that, too spontaneous, but French guys don't interest me. I'm probably bringing it all upon myself then.

Thank you!

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Originally Posted by Elvirah [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

The big question is what's the matter? Why none of them ever told me face-to-face or even sent me a message saying "sorry, this isn't going to work, let's not meet up again"?

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How many botched dates are we speaking here? How many of each? And how many times did you turn down a follow-up date for whatever reason?

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Originally Posted by vashti [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

The reason they stop calling you after they have sex is because you slept with them before they developed any attachment to you.

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I agree with this. A (primitive) side of me wants to sleep with as many women as possible, but to develop a sound relationship I can't before at least a number of dates. I was a bit surprised to read in another thread that some people don't sleep together before dating many many months. But it makes sense to me.

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Originally Posted by Elvirah [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I'm really intrigued though: what happens in a guy's head when he gets a message from a girl he has spent some time with and doesn't reply?

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They're the kind of guys who 1. hunt around all the time and 2. lack the social manners to apologize. There are many of this type around, especially since the internet age. Breaking up is hard work and no fun. Hit and run is easier.

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My mistake, I don't see sex as the conclusion of the seduction game, but just another domain in which to try our compatibilty, like a philosophical conversation or a hike together. In fact, sleeping with someone relieves the sexual tension between us and actually allows me to start having feelings...

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You make a surprising good point, especially for a woman. But to be honest, for me (and I think for most males) the sexual tension is what keeps the dating game interesting.

Why can't you develop feelings until after sex?

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Originally Posted by smackie9 [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Don't go off boasting about your PHD or how you speak 3 languages, etc.

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I like smart girls. I actually avoid dating not too smart ones. I'm surprised about the language problem though. In Europe most people speak at least two languages (except of course the big states like France, Germany and the UK). I speak 4, but it rarely comes up in a conversation.

Maybe you talk a bit too much about yourself. I have that problem. (I'm actually considering starting a thread about that issue...) My point is that something else might be wrong; something you don't realise. I don't mean there's something wrong with you, but maybe a slight adjustment could help you improve your succes.

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Originally Posted by Jolicoeur [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

How many botched dates are we speaking here? How many of each?

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Erm we're talking about 9 times... okay, now I know the problem is how I meet them and how quickly it all happens. Good, like a healthy slap across the face.

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Originally Posted by Jolicoeur [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I'm surprised about the language problem though. In Europe most people speak at least two languages (except of course the big states like France, Germany and the UK). I speak 4, but it rarely comes up in a conversation.

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Language seems to be a real problem sometimes. Let me explain, it's not as if I was from Flanders and spoke Dutch, French, and English. Now, for the sake of argument, imagine a German who goes to Spanish-speaking counties to research on Cervantes and teach the locals their own linguistics and literature... Yes, however passionate, that one will end up pissing off a few people.

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Originally Posted by Jolicoeur [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Maybe you talk a bit too much about yourself.

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I certainly do! I talk an awful lot about myself in an attempt to fill the silence, because I'm scared to death someone I fancy might get bored with me. Is it better to let him find conversation topics he's comfortable with? You'e right to talk about adjustment I think, as an ex-shy (think asocial for most of my childhood and teenage years), I am still extremely awkward with people my age, so I over-compensate with assumed self-confidence. Needless to repeat how it has failed me so far. And as an ex-ugly duckling I am amazed, even grateful, when a guy finds me attractive enough. Obviously, every time I get stood up my level of self-esteem sinks and I become an easier prey. Vicious circle all over again. Damn! It's not a forum but a psycho-analysis I need, or what?

Thanks a lot for your advice, I'm about to move once more where no-one knows me, so I have the chance to do things differently this time!

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Originally Posted by Elvirah [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

imagine a German who goes to Spanish-speaking counties to research on Cervantes and teach the locals their own linguistics and literature... Yes, however passionate, that one will end up pissing off a few people.

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LOL! Well, I worked a couple of years in Ford Werke in Koln and Saarlouis, where among things I had to train the locals to use their own installations, for which I had to quickly learn german. :-)

Here is some advice from Cervantes for you:

"Every man is as heaven made him, and sometimes a great deal worse."

"That which costs little is less valued."

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I talk an awful lot about myself in an attempt to fill the silence, because I'm scared to death someone I fancy might get bored with me. Is it better to let him find conversation topics he's comfortable with?

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That's exactly what I'm afraid of too. Not only on dates, but even among friends. Sometimes if I don't talk, nobody talks, and the party just dies. Sometimes when I consciously deside not to talk too much, people ask me if I'm alright; why I am so quiet. (That gets on my system so much :-)

I think on dates you'd better ask questions about the other person. Most people like to answer questions about themselves. Don't ask too personal ones though, like past girlfriends. More like what countries he travelled to and what cars he's had. Somehow we men like to talk about our cars. :-)

When I ask questions like that, I make a rule not to talk about my similar preferences unless specifically asked back. It prevents me from dominating the conversation about myself.The drawback is that you often discover quickly how self-centered people really are. You're rarely asked questions back.

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You'e right to talk about adjustment I think, as an ex-shy (...), I am still extremely awkward with people my age, so I over-compensate with assumed self-confidence.

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Don't do that too much. Occasional shy-ness can be very cute.

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It's not a forum but a psycho-analysis I need, or what?

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Self-analysis sometimes works just as well. But don't beat yourself up too much. I don't think you failed any of those dates. You discovered that those guys were not right for you. Maybe the cost was high (if you don't like one-night stands). But believe me, nice guys do exist. And it's much easier for a woman to find a nice guy, than it is for a nice guy to find a woman.

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Originally Posted by Elvirah [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Indeed... When he discovers it little by little is a guy likely to be more comfortable with it? I used to put it all out there so that we won't lose our time if he's got a problem with who I am. Of course it didn't work, and oh does he have a problem with that!



My mistake, I don't see sex as the conclusion of the seduction game, but just another domain in which to try our compatibilty, like a philosophical conversation or a hike together. In fact, sleeping with someone relieves the sexual tension between us and actually allows me to start having feelings... I know I have to change, but I ask what's the matter with me I get mixed replies: once I'm not needy enough, and another time I'm too present. Life isn't an American sitcom (SATC and the likes), it would be ridiculous to call because I've waited the "right" amount of time since his call instead of just because I feel like it... wouldn't it?
Oh I'm just too French when it comes to that, too spontaneous, but French guys don't interest me. I'm probably bringing it all upon myself then.

Thank you!

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Well, my current gf is of the same philosophy. She is very much the director of things, regardless of my efforts to plan events for us to attend. She always comes up with something to do. That includes sex. She is very much the instigator. I guess some would say, "Lucky bastard" to me, but I would not totally agree with that. It is a bit too much and not so much fun when a man is getting chased by a woman. And, she has sort of drawn a line in the sand, too. Namely, I need to overcome feelings of reticence about moving rapidly into sex OR she doesn't see a future for us. I'm beginning to see a future for us...that is, no future.

I guess the point of telling you this is that you should probably just relax about things a bit, be less intense, be a little less the "professional-powerhouse-to-be" and you'll be more approachable.

BTW: I should add...I did all the sex stuff. I just expressed feelings of reticence and that was apparently not acceptable. (i.e., Enjoyable Yourself or Get Help! It Is An Order!)

Like it or not, there is a double-standard regarding sex for men and women. It has nothing to do with your intellect, except you should be able to use it to figure this out. I will say when I was younger (and dating, now I'm married) I never entertained the guys who I thought might be the sort to do what you describe. I also never slept around or early in a relationship (yes, I actually had to be in a relationship to even consider sex). Times are different now as far as the social scene I gather, but I think that there are still men who value a woman who doesn't give it up too easily. I mean, in your case especially, whats the rush? Its not like its all you have going for you--I'm sure you are very interesting, can make great conversation and have cool experiences to share. If a guy can't appreciate that about you, then why would you ever want to sleep with him?

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Originally Posted by CAM [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

The spouses or serious significant others have to put up with a lot of crap because our lives (yours and mine) are not 9 to 5 in any way. By Saturday, I'm a drooling idiot sitting at the breakfast table at home. By Sunday evening, I'm mentally re-adjusted...just in time for Monday morning.

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Hahahahaha.... (pause for breath)... hahahahaha. Professor fessus, I recognize this species, CAM.

I probably got the declension wrong, hopefully someone can correct (how many phds does it take... jokes come to mind).

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Originally Posted by Elvirah [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Thank you both!

Then why don't they tell me straight away they're not interested? This silence, this indifference, it hurts a lot more than blunt honesty...

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The answer to this part is to protect yourself and not worry about WHY they do this. Make sure that you feel comfortable with there integrity and the attachment that you have before you let them in. If they don't stick around and you are not invested emotionally it will not hurt as bad. Let them prove themselves to you a little more first. If they don't stick around till you are comfortable, then good riddance. You will still be taking a risk when you get involved more deeply but it will be more calculated and you won't have so many let downs.

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Originally Posted by Jolicoeur [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

But believe me, nice guys do exist. And it's much easier for a woman to find a nice guy, than it is for a nice guy to find a woman.

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My, I hope you're right! Where are they hiding?

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Originally Posted by IndiReloaded [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

If a guy can't appreciate that about you, then why would you ever want to sleep with him?

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Well... I don't know, why not just because I want to? Sex isn't a reward from woman to man, it is something we both want, take, and enjoy together. But that's another debate ;)

Thank you all a million times, now I've got a lot to work on!

It sounds to me like you are giving up your mystery too soon. My great-grandmother used to tell me that a womans greatest asset is her mystery and once it's gone it can't be gotten back. I understand about getting it all out there, I think this is what intense people do to try and weed out the people that cannot handle the intensity (possibly taking a page from Marilyn Monroe with her 'if you can't handle me at my worst you don't deserve me at my best'. Not saying intense is bad, it can just be overwhelming), the problem with that approach is you are putting your assets and your flaws all out there on a platter right from the beginning meaning your flaws and assets are there for equal viewing. There is an honesty in this approach that has to be admired but the fact of the matter is no one is going to accept flaws unless they completely believe the assets outweigh them. Jeez, the average person takes up to a year to fart infront of the person they are dating for fear of the other person thinking they are disgusting. Unfortunately, we are programmed to respond to this mildly deceptive dance to start off the attraction. I'm not saying you EVER lie about yourself, but it is common subconscious behaviour to present yourself in the most flattering light. As you've already been told your most flattering light may be intimidating. Just avoid giving away too much too soon.

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Originally Posted by IndiReloaded [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Like it or not, there is a double-standard regarding sex for men and women. It has nothing to do with your intellect, except you should be able to use it to figure this out. I will say when I was younger (and dating, now I'm married) I never entertained the guys who I thought might be the sort to do what you describe. I also never slept around or early in a relationship (yes, I actually had to be in a relationship to even consider sex). Times are different now as far as the social scene I gather, but I think that there are still men who value a woman who doesn't give it up too easily. I mean, in your case especially, whats the rush? Its not like its all you have going for you--I'm sure you are very interesting, can make great conversation and have cool experiences to share. If a guy can't appreciate that about you, then why would you ever want to sleep with him?

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Originally Posted by Jolicoeur [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

But believe me, nice guys do exist. And it's much easier for a woman to find a nice guy, than it is for a nice guy to find a woman.

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I totally agree with both of you. Indi's right--What's the rush? I see this in my own relationship (the current one and in past ones). I am not overly sexual, but I get talked into sex by women who say much the same as the OP say later in the thread--namely, that they like sex and want to share that with me. But, the fact is that women are not men when it comes to sex and emotional ties. A woman isn't likely to *just enjoy* casual sex...she forms an emotional bond to the guy. I don't think that is fair to your male partners. If you lead him into sex and then form an emotional attachment that he is now supposed to honor...is that fair to him? Guys will run from this, particularly nice guys.

And Jolicoeur--I agree again! Nice guys exist. It is hard for nice guys to meet nice women, though. Nice guys can easily fall into the snare of not-so-nice or aggressive women. Nice women can often fall into the snares of men who are jerks.

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Originally Posted by Elvirah [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Where are they hiding?

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The label nice guy is not something positive.

A nice guy has high morals, is quite sensitive, respectful and well-mannered. He does not work the dating market the way nature intended it. Instead of fluttering from flower to flower like a butterfly, he targets one particular girl and courts her for a long while. Of course this almost always fails, but the nice guy has trouble letting go of his often mentally idealised target of affection. Rejection is answered with confusion and misunderstanding. After lots of rejections, the nice guy can metamorphose into the bitter loner.

I am a specimen of this sad life form, so I've had some experience analysing my own modus operandum. I've been quite bitter for two decades after some particular nasty rejections in high school. I've grown out of it, realising after all those years that the rejecting girl does not control her feelings any more than the nice guy does. (She does however control her actions, but I don't want to drag this into the analysis of the evil bitch, another life-form in the love eco-system).

If you can get a nice guy to love you, you have a mate for life. He's been hurt so often that he'll never want to inflict this suffering onto someone else. Sometimes however he might carry some baggage from previous botched courtships.

How does one recognise a nice guy? They are rarely handsome. (Handome guys have easy pickings on the dating flower beds). The nice guy acts a bit corny: he holds doors for women, proposes to help out more than he should, apologises a bit too often. Mothers like nice guys a lot. They always wish their daughters find one. This, I can tell you, is particularly frustrating.

The reason why girls are not attracted to nice guys is because they emanate some vibe of desperation. I've never understood this. It is very counter-intuitive since nearly all love stories are about some nice guy exerting substantial effort to court a love interest. To me it seems like the more I show a girl I care, the less she wants me. (It's this observation that lead to the development of the highly succesful pick-up artistry).

I think that the nice guy who succesfully connects to his coveted girl, at least for a few years lives in absolute bliss. I have yet to reach that stadium. For almost three years now I've been hoping to ask the most perfect girl this side of Constantinople out on a date. I have to wait because the odds are terribly against me. They might however never improve. Do you notice the absurdity of this situation?

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Originally Posted by Jolicoeur [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

The label nice guy is not something positive.

A nice guy has high morals, is quite sensitive, respectful and well-mannered. He does not work the dating market the way nature intended it. Instead of fluttering from flower to flower like a butterfly, he targets one particular girl and courts her for a long while. Of course this almost always fails, but the nice guy has trouble letting go of his often mentally idealised target of affection. Rejection is answered with confusion and misunderstanding. After lots of rejections, the nice guy can metamorphose into the bitter loner.

I am a specimen of this sad life form, so I've had some experience analysing my own modus operandum. I've been quite bitter for two decades after some particular nasty rejections in high school. I've grown out of it, realising after all those years that the rejecting girl does not control her feelings any more than the nice guy does. (She does however control her actions, but I don't want to drag this into the analysis of the evil bitch, another life-form in the love eco-system).

If you can get a nice guy to love you, you have a mate for life. He's been hurt so often that he'll never want to inflict this suffering onto someone else. Sometimes however he might carry some baggage from previous botched courtships.

How does one recognise a nice guy? They are rarely handsome. (Handome guys have easy pickings on the dating flower beds). The nice guy acts a bit corny: he holds doors for women, proposes to help out more than he should, apologises a bit too often. Mothers like nice guys a lot. They always wish their daughters find one. This, I can tell you, is particularly frustrating.

The reason why girls are not attracted to nice guys is because they emanate some vibe of desperation. I've never understood this. It is very counter-intuitive since nearly all love stories are about some nice guy exerting substantial effort to court a love interest. To me it seems like the more I show a girl I care, the less she wants me. (It's this observation that lead to the development of the highly succesful pick-up artistry).

I think that the nice guy who succesfully connects to his coveted girl, at least for a few years lives in absolute bliss. I have yet to reach that stadium. For almost three years now I've been hoping to ask the most perfect girl this side of Constantinople out on a date. I have to wait because the odds are terribly against me. They might however never improve. Do you notice the absurdity of this situation?

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You have summarized it perfectly. I am also a "nice guy" and becoming a loner is a real thing. I have a gf at the moment. She's obviously not "the one" because I still prefer to be alone than with her. The sex is something that she instigates (yes, I go along with it), but it isn't at all a high priority. I'd prefer to get to know her mind and values, etc. I'd rather she was a "nice woman" (i.e., my counterpart!) but that's a rare thing to find these days. I met a "nice woman" once for whom I fell in love. In that case, I never thought about wanting to be alone. I wanted to be with her. And, guess what? We never had sex...wasn't that a refreshing way of courting a nice woman? Refreshing and rare in today's world.

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Originally Posted by Elvirah [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Hi everyone,

I'm a nice girl, never had a nasty break-up or cheated on anyone, and it feels like they're taking advantage of me but I don't know how to stop it from happening. Some of my friend say I might be intimidating them because I'm a 23-year-old PhD student, I speak 3 languages fluently and I've lived on 3 continents by myself.

Doesn't seem like a big deal to me, I know I wouldn't feel inferior if I met a guy who's more intelligent, independent, and brave than me, I'd rather welcome it!

Thanks!

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This is the problem, we feel underpowered with such a girl, you are way too smart for an average man, you gotta know someone of your intellectual level or, even if you stay with someone for a while, you'll get bored and they will feel bad.

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Or would you treat her like shit because it would make you feel like you have some sort of power over her?

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Don't worry about this, its the exact opposite, they feel like you got some sort of power over them

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Originally Posted by mbartelsm [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

This is the problem, we feel underpowered with such a girl, you are way too smart for an average man, you gotta know someone of your intellectual level or, even if you stay with someone for a while, you'll get bored and they will feel bad.




Don't worry about this, its the exact opposite, they feel like you got some sort of power over them

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I hardly agree with this logic. I am quite attracted to women of great intellect. Always have been. Whether I agree with them or not, that is not an issue. There is nothing quite as attractive as a woman who makes me feel humble intellectually, who has accomplished something which I have not--one from whom I can learn something and hopefully vice versa. There is, however, nothing quite as unattractive as a woman (or anyone for that matter) who likes to lord it over another.

Moral: being smart is sexy. being a smarty-pants is not. Balance that out, young lady intellect, and you can have me any day of the week (or one of my associates of similar view) !

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A nice guy has high morals, is quite sensitive, respectful and well-mannered. He does not work the dating market the way nature intended it. Instead of fluttering from flower to flower like a butterfly, he targets one particular girl and courts her for a long while. Of course this almost always fails, but the nice guy has trouble letting go of his often mentally idealised target of affection. Rejection is answered with confusion and misunderstanding. After lots of rejections, the nice guy can metamorphose into the bitter loner.

I am a specimen of this sad life form, so I've had some experience analysing my own modus operandum. I've been quite bitter for two decades after some particular nasty rejections in high school. I've grown out of it, realising after all those years that the rejecting girl does not control her feelings any more than the nice guy does. (She does however control her actions, but I don't want to drag this into the analysis of the evil bitch, another life-form in the love eco-system).

If you can get a nice guy to love you, you have a mate for life.

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This made me sad to read, and also very grateful. I married a nice guy (of the non-bitter sort).

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Originally Posted by IndiReloaded [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I married a nice guy.

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Thank you for rescuing one of my kind. :'-)

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Originally Posted by mbartelsm [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

This is the problem, we feel underpowered with such a girl, you are way too smart for an average man, you gotta know someone of your intellectual level or, even if you stay with someone for a while, you'll get bored and they will feel bad.

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Like CAM, I don't agree either. It's not the superior intellect that is off-putting. It's the perceived arrogance that goes with it. I say perceived because I'm sure in lots of case the intellectual does not mean to be arrogant, and probably doesn't even know it.

The girl I'm secretly adoring is incredibly bright. She's a fantastic student and has great insight in many domains. But what makes her so attractive to me (among other reasons) is that she is very humble about it. I can picture us work out any problem in a sensible fashion. That alone is worth her weight in the finest gold.