To Marry or not to Marry

-- Please read the whole story and comment on the points I've numbered below. Thank you.

I met this girl, we started dating and went out once or twice a week for a good couple of months. We hit it off really well. She had an accent when I met her and her English wasn't 100%, but good enough to hold a conversation. She is from the Ukraine.

After a couple of months, we moved in together. It was kind of fast, but she was basically living with me for a few weeks without going to her place so we felt it made sense. Plus the place she was living at wasn't the best conditions, but all she could afford. The place we are at, is better but by no means luxurious!

After she moved in, she let me know she was previously married. I was 29 at the time, she was 27. That really hurt me inside since I was thinking she was this innocent beautiful shy girl. Not that I thought she was a virgin, but previously married didn't even enter in my head.

Their story is, they met in the Ukraine (I won't go into personal details), but needless to say they got married there and moved to the USA. She was married for 2.5 years and then divorced him. She did get her green card and stayed in the US with a friend of her Mom.

I'll be honest, I wasn't thrilled about going out with a previously married woman, however she is wonderful. My biggest question to her is why they got divorced. We all make decisions and she didn't know me at the time and I've had a LTR in the past as well. I can get over that. However, she was sketchy telling me why they divorced.

For the first few weeks after telling me about the divorce she kept saying that she was not happy but no further details. I didn't care really until she started saying she wanted to get married. Asking me when I was going to, blah blah blah. I love her and am thinking about it deeply.

Well, after another couple of weeks she finally told me after I kept asking. She told me she was embarrassed. She finally told me she thought he was gay and she didn't want to be with him because he didn't seem interested in her. She has some interesting evidence of him being gay, but I find it VERY hard to believe.

We've had numerous fights about this because frankly, I don't believe her... however, if she is telling me the truth than I am totally in the wrong.

We had a big fight recently because I kept bringing the subject up (ONLY BECAUSE SHE'S BEEN ASKING FOR MARRIAGE) that I felt I could have lost her because of this. It's honestly the only thing we've ever really got upset about with each other. I have brought it up a lot, but I just want to get to the bottom of it and be done.

I just find it hard to believe a gay man would go to the Ukraine (albeit he was there doing other stuff) and meet and marry her and bring her back here while he was gay. I just find that HARD to believe. Her response is that he maybe just wanted to be 'normal'. However, in America it's much

more open for gay's so I don't buy that.

My thoughts are...

1) Did he just use her (for sex maybe) and get bored with her. She claims they rarely had sex.

2) Did she use him just get her green card. I don't think this is the case after getting to know her, but I don't want to completely forgot about the option. It's also possibly she stayed with him because she wanted her Green Card, but again, only speculation. She said that was not the case.

3) She also never directly asked if he was gay which I thought was odd. She said he claimed to try and get some help in that area but never did. She didn't think things would ever change. Although, her personality is very introverted (shy) so I could see her not wanting to bring up the subject.

4) My other concern is, what are people going to think when they find out my 'could be wife' is from the Ukraine (not a huge concern here) but perhaps find out she was married before which is how she came to the US?? I shouldn't care what others think, but I do. Are they going to jump to the same thoughts I have, she was some sex slave for someone else? I mean, that doesn't make me feel good.

I may have painted an uglier picture of her, if you just think of the negatives in my story. She is a good woman. She doesn't smoke, drink or do drugs. She is family oriented and wants a family of her own. She doesn't want to go to clubs or do any of that. She studies hard and she loves me a lot. She'll run into my arms when I get home from work and she's always smiling when I look at her. Her smile melts my heart. She would make any man happy. Honestly, I've dated women before and she is the best one I've been with. I am seriously contemplating marriage but want some opinions.

We've been going out for almost a year now (8 mo's approx)

Does anyone think she's telling the truth? Should it matter? Should I be worried?

Sincerely,
Justaniceguy

I will put on my "boring guy" hat now, but I think you need to hear the following:

Regarding your thoughts/questions:
1) how can we answer this? You know her (possibly him too) and you are unsure whether he's gay or not.
2) Obviously there is an incentive and you will be surprised what people are prepared to do given the right incentives. Take this from an economist.
3) She wouldn't need to know if he is gay or not if she was after a "white marriage" - but equally most females won't ask someone they are about to get married to "honey, by the way, are you gay?". At least, not the ones I know.
4) People will always gossip, no matter what you do. You could marry George W Bush for all they care. It's what they do - don't care too much about it.

But obviously if you have so many questions/uncertainties about her, getting married to her is, well, not the brightest thing to do? Get to know her better first.

She probably used him for a green card, and I'm almost 100% certain that she's lying about him being gay. No gay man is going to go to the extreme hassle of recruiting a wife from eastern Europe when he could just easily hook up with other dudes here in the U.S.

If you can get her to stop lying about him being gay and just admit that she used him for a green card, that's a good start. Next, find out the full legal implications of her green card status. Does she need to stay married to that guy for a few years? Or does she just need to get re-married to someone else soon? Might be worth meeting with an immigration attorney of your choice. There might be legal reasons why she is rushing you to get married to her.

Otherwise, there are a few more issues you might want to ponder. Are there cultural differences that you are worried about? Does she drink too much? And, given that she left behind all of her friends and family just to move to the U.S., is she ever going to be loyal to you?

Nicholas_V,

1) Good point, I don't know him so I'm guessing at this one.
2) Of course, I know people would do this, I wouldn't even be mad at this one.
3) What's a 'white marriage'? She was married in the Ukraine, and when they came to the US they only went to the courthouse. She's never had an american wedding.
4) True that!


VincenzoG91,

Well, it's easy to say she's lying. I thought the same thing you thought... However, why make up such a weird story? It's almost too ridiculous to be fake! She could have said he was mean and didn't treat her right, etc. Or she could have easily said he cheated on her, 'nough said. She didn't. She even told me that he treated her nice, payed for her so she wouldn't have to work. He seems like a nice guy actually, haha. She even said he was a nice guy, he just didn't make her happy (which is kind of her way of saying he didn't have sex with her).

Which is why I am not sure if she's lying to me. It's just so damn weird that I don't know.

The real question, is she using me for something?

Her green card is legit, she has nothing else required for her to do. She can live here single the rest of her life if she wants, she's got a SSN, etc.

It sounds like I have less money than he did. I am not wealthy by any means. I am a nice guy though. She's had trouble keeping a job (she is studying for some medical exams coming up), so right now she's not working... but she will and we've talked about that :).

If this helps too, when we were first going out she wouldn't let me touch her 'special areas' for a bit. When we did make love for the first time, that's when she told me she loved me. So, I don't think she's a 'slut' or a 'bad person' like people would think.

Thanks
Justaniceguy

strictly speaking, a "white marriage" is an unconsumated marriage. In government jargon, the term "white marriage" is also used to describe a situation where two people get married with foreknowledge that they will have this wedding annulled at a later point (hence they will most likely not care to consumate their "relationship"). Most common reasons: visas, green cards etc.

Obviously they have to keep their intentions private, or they will be stopped by immigration office. Immigration officers do of course investigate cases like these - but no system is perfect.

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Originally Posted by Justaniceguy [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

It sounds like I have less money than he did. I am not wealthy by any means.
Justaniceguy

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Probably - but you have an american passport and she has a Ukrainian one. Citizenship beats green card.

Not saying that this is what is happening, but can you say with certainty that it isn't? If not, don't get married till you know her better!

The first guy was her airline ticket. You're her financial aid. Unless she really cares for you, she will probably divorce you after she gets her degree and try to leave you stuck with the student loans. Then she will tell her third husband that she left you because you're gay.

The reason why the gay story is so lame is that the first guy went through an expensive hassle to bring her over here. I seriously do not believe that he is gay and simply did this because he is confused or stupid. She is probably sticking to this ludicrous lie because in her culture, being gay is considered so extremely wrong that it would end any further speculation about what actually happened. Don't let her lie to you like this.

Keep in mind, she left behind everybody that she ever cared about (if anybody) just to live in the U.S. and go to school here. Why do you persist in believing that she will care about you more than them? She's a mercenary, and you've got some money.

Why am I so cynical? Years ago, I had a friend chasing the euro-bride angle, and he preferred Ukrainian women. At the same time, one of my co-workers was in her last year of grad school. She and her husband were from Greece, but they tended to socialize with foreign students in general. So it happened that she knew five different women from eastern Europe, and every single one of them married an American (probably just for the green card) and then got divorced and went to college. My friend didn't listen to me or anybody else warning him. But he couldn't help noticing that his favorite got pregnant about halfway between his semi-annual visits. So he finally got cautious and brought her over on a travel visa to stay for a month, so they could try out living together. Things went poorly. Turned out that she was a heavy drinker with a bad temper. Towards the end of the month, he asked her if she loved him, and she honestly admitted that she didn't, but maybe that would change after they got married. He broke off the relationship and went back to dating American women.

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Originally Posted by VincenzoG91 [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Keep in mind, she left behind everybody that she ever cared about (if anybody) just to live in the U.S. and go to school here. Why do you persist in believing that she will care about you more than them? She's a mercenary, and you've got some money.

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I think this bit is a lame argument: People move to different countries/continents all the time for their careers or education and they should. This does not mean that they are incapable of love or that they are mean or everything else you say.

I could in fact name quite a few successful americans who chose to live abroad and led very passionate love lives - Ernest Hemingway being one of them...

It's probable that she used him to get her green card. It's also probable that the reason HE did it was to get a house-slave. He wanted somebody to cook/clean/screw and she didn't want to do that, resulting in lots of fights. She's evasive because she is embarrassed that she let herself be used that way.

She also doesn't trust you. If she did, she'd tell you the truth. You can't build a relationship without trust. I'd suggest that you tell her that she needs to find other accommodations , as you're unprepared to pursue a relationship without honesty and trust. Phrase it exactly that way - that way you're not forcing her through threats or coercion to do what you want, you're telling her that's your boundary, and setting boundaries is a good thing. She may change her mind and tell the truth at that point.

VincenzoG91,

I feel bad for your friend. I know there are women out there that do that. Not only from other countries either, many american girls will do similar things for money, fame, etc.

I wouldn't classify any female based on her origin of birth though. To say all Ukraine woman are out for blood is kind of ignorant.

However, I thank you for your concern and am taking it very seriously, which is why I wanted others opinions before I made any decisions.

To further answer your questions, my girl graduated in the Ukraine and is on a 5 year online course thing here (this is her last year of that) and she has to pass these upcoming exams. Either way, she can get a job in the medical field, but if she passes she can do more of what she wants to do.

I have helped with some online courses for her to help study, but only a few hundred dollars... She has paid for the rest (or her ex did too), so she can't leave me with any bills as you say. She doesn't drink, she has a little wine on special occasions, but even then its very little. I drink a lot! :)

My girlfriend does have a bit of a temper, but only when I keep bringing up her damn ex, haha! It's still not as bad as my last girlfriend's (USA) temper too!

I'm mainly interested in knowing if her story about her ex being gay could be legit. Any ideas on how I could find out? Even if I tracked down her ex, I doubt he would be like 'yea I'm gay', haha. I'm kinda stuck. I still think it might be real just for the fact it's soo ridiculous.

Thanks
Justaniceguy

HeartIsAching,

What if it is the truth? I could lose this amazing person because I couldn't trust her? What kind of man would that make me?

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Originally Posted by Justaniceguy [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

HeartIsAching,

What if it is the truth?

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What if there really is a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Justaniceguy [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

HeartIsAching,

What if it is the truth? I could lose this amazing person because I couldn't trust her? What kind of man would that make me?

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and what if she is milking you? you wouldn't be the first one to fall for it...

Ask straight questions if you consider marrying this person! You hardly know her! Gee, no surprise that divorce rates are that high...

Well,

Does anyone think she could be telling the truth? If I press her I could lose her. So, what should I do? I already asked her a ton of times and she hasn't swayed from her story.

Nicolas_v,

I still don't get what's she's milking me for... If anything I'm getting a woman who cleans, cooks, has sex, and doesn't ask for expensive things... So, I'm getting the better deal right now. She seems to want to be married and have a family... Like most women.

I don't know, I am trying to be open on both sides here, but I can't see her using me for anything.


Thanks
Justaniceguy

I think the strangest thing is that she is pushing you to get married already.. Doesnt that concern you a little bit?? You have only known her a year. Dont be a push over. If she asks to get married say that you want to date her for a lot longer before actually marrying her. That way you can get to know a little bit more.. And it sounds bad.. but i would probably snoop a little... Sounds silly i know, but if you find she is telling the truth then you can build your trusting relationship from there. As, you're asking here for advice so you obviously dont trust her... If you find she is lying then.. there ya go. problem solved and move on. Good luck!

^^^He's got a good point. I'll add another:

Something I've learned through my long history of failed marriages - don't get married until you're without a doubt in your mind that you want to do it. If you can rush into it full-tilt, without hesitation, you've got it right. If there's the slightest doubt, you should wait and see.

Girls opinion on the gay thing....

You've mentioned her English isn't brilliant, you've mentioned that she tried to simply tell you he didn't make her happy, you've mentioned that they had no sex hence her being unhappy...
Possibilities...
1) She's not completely sure what gay means and is trying to tell you he didn't seem attracted to her
2) She tried telling you she just wasn't happy and that wasn't good enough for you so she'd thrown in the gay thing just to get you off her back OR
3) there is some horrible reason no one has considered or mentioned and she is trying (badly) to hide it from you

Sounds to me like a train wreck about to happen. She wants marriage after less than a year for me = way too fast.

Ok Ok!

She hasn't been pressing me for marriage for no reason. She's pregnant by me. I didn't want to say that to sway peoples opinions.

It was an accident, but we have to figure out what to do. She wants to keep it and she wants a family (husband). She hasn't told her mom or anyone else because I think she wants to say she's getting married first.

So as much as I'd love to wait another year, I kind of need to make up my mind soon. I know you shouldn't get married for a child, I understand that. I also know that waiting is also still ok. Honestly though, if she wasn't married before I would do it in an instant. No hesitation. She's a wonderful person.

I just find her story a bit weird and I think about it all the time. Unfortunately on my part I've brought it up so many times that she is getting really pissed off at me.

Thanks
Justaniceguy.

I think you have already made up your mind and you are looking now for reassurance. Pregnant or not, the facts still stand unchanged: you don't know her.

Whatever you choose to do, you will obviously still have a responsibility towards the baby - if she chooses to keep it.

Nicholas,

Maybe you're right. You're not helping much if I am looking for reassurance, lol! I keep thinking also that why didn't her ex husband get her pregnant?!? Was she telling the truth, I don't know.

I just want to do the right thing. If she's an honest woman with good values than of course I'll marry her and so far she's shown she is. Her past is questionable though and that concerns me.

Thanks
Justaniceguy

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Justaniceguy [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

You're not helping much if I am looking for reassurance,
Justaniceguy

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You asked for an honest opinion - that's what we give you. Doesn't it surprise you that almost everyone here says the same thing? If you wanted a pat on the back you could have asked for that and you would have got it.

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Originally Posted by Justaniceguy [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I just want to do the right thing.

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The right thing would be to get to know her first, then decide if you want to marry her and then start thinking of babies. So, by definition, you can no longer do the right thing. You are talking about damage control now.

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Originally Posted by Justaniceguy [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

If she's an honest woman with good values than of course I'll marry her and so far she's shown she is. Her past is questionable though and that concerns me.

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Your call what you do. I stand by my earlier arguments. I think you are taking up a massive risk going ahead with this and I am conscious that such risks MOST of the times don't pay up.

My ex broke up with her ex because she questioned his sexuality, but she was engaged to him and still thinks about him (but claims she wouldnt get back with him.) My point is I can somehow relate.. if your girlfriend doesnt think about her ex i dont see the problem...

Excellent, well done. You are both so stupid that she is now pregnant and you hardly know each other. Don't you know how contraception works? I do worry for the child - it will inherit both your stupid genes.

How is she going to get through med school while dealing with a baby?

DarkHelmet82,

Thanks for that. Do you know why she questioned him? The way he acted or lack of sex? etc.? I knew this guy who acted kind of gay (feminine) and I thought perhaps he was, but found out he was not... he really liked women :)

Boisdevie,

Perhaps our child will be so stupid he/she will be genius! All kidding aside your comment was useless.

Thanks
Justaniceguy.

VincenzoG91,

She's just about done with her courses. Her last test is in June. So, she will be fine for that... she might have to take a year off before looking for a job (to take care of the baby though)... not sure what she'll want to do yet. She has to pass her exam first. If she doesn't she can still get a job, just not as good.

Thanks
Justaniceguy

It's still going to be hard for her after her board exam. To become a general practitioner, she has to do a one-year internship, with brutal hours. She will frequently be staying overnight in the hospital, sometimes working 30 hours or more without sleep. Hope you like changing diapers, because you're going to be spending a lot of time with the baby.

And GPs don't make good money compared to specialists. Depending on the specialty, a specialist internship could last from 2-7 years.

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Originally Posted by Justaniceguy [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Ok Ok!

She hasn't been pressing me for marriage for no reason. She's pregnant by me. I didn't want to say that to sway peoples opinions.

It was an accident, but we have to figure out what to do. She wants to keep it and she wants a family (husband). She hasn't told her mom or anyone else because I think she wants to say she's getting married first.

So as much as I'd love to wait another year, I kind of need to make up my mind soon. I know you shouldn't get married for a child, I understand that. I also know that waiting is also still ok. Honestly though, if she wasn't married before I would do it in an instant. No hesitation. She's a wonderful person.

I just find her story a bit weird and I think about it all the time. Unfortunately on my part I've brought it up so many times that she is getting really pissed off at me.

Thanks
Justaniceguy.

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I think the fact that she is pregnant is a critical point. If you love her, and she is having your baby, you should marry her if that's what she wants. Who cares about the "gay" ex, and who cares if she wants citizenship? You want to keep her and have a regular relationship with your child, don't you? And you said you love her...

Also, please clarify: did you say she is in medical school? I didn't think you said that, but I don't think she will EVER be employed as an MD if she is going to school online.

vashti,

Let me clarify, she graduated from a 4 year university in the Ukraine. Instead of spending money for medical school here, she is studying on her own and had 5 years to complete 3 tests, 2 of which she passed. She uses the internet to study and she pays for that. Once she passes she can apply for residency. I don't understand the whole process myself to be honest, but she understands what she needs to do.

I do love her, I want to be with her, but I want to be married once and since she's been married before am concerned she will leave at some point for who knows why!

Thanks
Justaniceguy

This doesn't sound right either. In the U.S., if you don't go to medical school, you can't become a doctor. It's not just about attending classes, there are hands-on experiences like cutting up cadavers. Her whole story sounds very shaky and shady. Keep your eyes wide-open and ask questions.

She isn't becoming a doctor, but more of a technician of some sort (someone who deals with the medical machines, not a true doctor)... I don't know exactly. I am probably doing a horrible job at describing this, lol.

Whatever she wants to do, I'll support. She studies for hours every day. It's not like she isn't doing anything. I see her study while I work.

Thanks,
Justaniceguy

let me get this right: she studies medicine in a Ukranian university *online* and she thinks she will be allowed to practice medicine in the US based on this?

L O L !

I won't be posting any longer on this thread, but good luck with her - you will need it!

Oh, medical technician, that's a different deal. I personally would be bothered about her incredibly unlikely story about the gay ex, but otherwise I think that you might as well marry her. I don't give your marriage great odds of survival, though. Second marriages have an even worse survival rate, and if she won't tell you the real reason her first marriage failed, you are probably going to find out the hard way. It simply doesn't make any sense at all that a gay man would go to the extreme trouble of looking for a bride in the Ukraine and then bringing her back here. I bet you the real reason the marriage failed was that she cheated on him.

Nicholas_V,

Sorry I'm not making things more clear, she went to a real university in the Ukraine for 4 years (NOT ONLINE), got her degree, etc. She's not even taking classes, it's just online courses for studying for these particular tests.

Justaniceguy

ok, you should have started with "I knocked her up and now she wants to marry". Here's my 2 cents worth.

Being from the Ukraine I imagine tradition is important to her. There is a good chance that her family will not be pleased with her being pregnant out of wedlock. Why she left her ex is irrelevant. If you want to be there for her and be a part of your childs life, MARRY HER!! She probably doesn't consider the idea of raising a family without marriage an option. If you love her marry her. She didn't have a child with her ex, she won't make such a frivolous decision with you. Children change things.

My fiance and I had known each other 8 months when we got together and had been together only 7 months when I fell pregnant. We panicked and freaked out and he suggested termination which I expressed wasn't an option. I did tell him his choice in the matter was to stay or go. He stayed. Our son is 6 and a half years old and has had a rough time (premmie birth, hospitalisation and health issues, then diagnosed with Autism) and my man and I have stuck together through it all. It's hasn't been all sunshine and lollipops, and there would have been times where if it wasn't for our son we may have thrown in the towel and called it quits, but we have battled through and are currently planning our wedding (less than 5 weeks away!! AAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!).

Marry her. Go propose. Do it! Do it! Do it! :)