OMG!! :horror::horror:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-14/connecticut-shooting-leaves-27-dead-including-pupils-ap.html
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OMG!! :horror::horror:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-14/connecticut-shooting-leaves-27-dead-including-pupils-ap.html
This ruined my day. I am devastated. :(
Poor babies... I'm wondering why there are some shit ****s wanting to kill little kids like that... They are freaking innocent... Poor babies...
On the other side. Congrats USA on having easy access to guns. Count how many time something like this happened here in Europe... I was talking about it with my brother. We concluded that the access makes it easier to make that decision to kill someone. I wouldn't even know who to ask to get a gun... I never saw a real gun in my life!
I remember some school shootings in Germany few years ago. The kid had access to guns at home though, his dad had some... So this is just another point in my argument...
I brought up the gun question today on FB and received the usual, unthoughtful and unpersuasive answers most of which were logically lacking: "Because the founding fathers..." or "Defend myself" ad nauseum. I also brought up the question of how often guns have ever actually been USED in legitimate defense. PLUS, even if we grant that guns should be legal, why in the hell does somebody need guns like AK-47's?
I don't need a freaking gun at all. I'm fine with my pepper spray. Nobody ever even attacked me so I didn't even have an opportunity to try that either... The only people having access to guns should be police and army, that's all. I tell you, if it goes about guns, USA has really some ****ed up law.
And now, wasn't it a 4th big shooting like this this year? Shouldn't you start to ask yourself questions where is the freaking problem? The best is, each of these shootings was because of a different reason, different place, different people, yet it all comes to one thing. Those psychos could buy guns like fresh bread.
Even if everyone had access to mental health care, I don't think psychos are a majority of the killings: I actually think most are with motives like revenge or sheer hatred (I don't think hatred at all counts as mental issues; my point here is, the biggest cause of gun violence is NOT psychos contrary to what most simple-thinking Americans think it is, but rather, bad decisions made by hateful or vengeance-seeking citizens). Basically, since "hate" isn't a mental illness, most perpetrators will slip even through background checks because you can't predict them acting out a natural feeling (everybody hates but most of us don't act out our hatred in ways like murder).
Frankly, I don't know why we need guns, either; to build up arsenals for a compound in case of martial law and then take on the government? to look cool? to live "Death Wish"?
Now, as far as school shootings, that's almost invariably an issue of psychotic guys, don't get me wrong. But since school shootings don't constitute a majority of gun crimes..
I was generalizing. But to be honest, people killing 20 poor little babies are real monsters. I am against death penalty, but I seriously hope for justice for them. Death must not be it. I don't know what, but justice.
The defense I've heard most often is just because you put harsher restrictions on guns doesn't mean it will make a difference. Drugs are illegal but people still get and sell them so what difference are we looking to make here? The people who shouldn't have them will still get them one way or another while the people who might use them to protect themselves will have a harder time getting them.
I'm reminded of a story I read a while back. A young woman was at home alone with her baby, I believe the father had passed away recently or was a soldier. Two men tried to get in through her front door so she put her baby in the bedroom, shoved furniture up against the door, and called 911. While she was on the phone, she grabbed a gun and asked, "If they get in here, can I shoot them?" The 911 dispatcher answered, "I can't tell you to shoot them or not to shoot them but once they are over your threshold, you do what you need to in order to protect yourself and your child."
The first guy shoves his way in and she blows him away, deader than a doornail. The other guy ran.
I HATE that argument, no offense. Child porn happens no matter how much you outlaw it; should society stop enforcing it? Gang violence is illegal but one way or the other, it'll still happen; should we just legalize it? Fact is, you can't just use the improbability of completely stopping a particular crime from keeping it illegal.
And yes, that's merely a story perhaps with some historical basis; but most gun owners A) keep their guns in inaccessible areas especially since they have to with kids B) there's no TIME C) most crimes in the home are never solved with gun ownership
I've heard the same story. Probably because it's one of very few stories that "defend" guns. Trust me. In Europe the only guns we have here are either on police station, in army, or illegally somewhere dunno where, but the great majority of people never even heard a gun shot... Why is that? And we have people breaking into houses too. Hmm.
All this is bullshit. Civilians don't need guns and by having them at home, they create an opportunity for a situation like this one today. End of story.
I'd rather get shot, though, than stabbed but that's not wholly relevant.
My biggest issue is, besides "robbers" in statistically unlikely situations, WHO do us Americans think guns will be used to protect us from? I chalk it up to stupid naive "V for Vendetta" politics: Kids and foolish adults see that stupid ****ing film and then think someday "omgz :O we'z gonna haz martial law" and think they'll use guns to take on an entire army and a government that can't possibly come about in American society (face it, the true, full-fledged dictator in America is essentially impossible; the country is too Constitutionally-bound).
You are horribly missing my point and your comparison is moot. Child porn != defensive weapon...Quote:
Originally Posted by Love'sReject [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
Fact is, guns can be used for defense or offense. You remove the right to carry guns, all you are doing is removing the defensive portion. Guess what? The guys you are worried about will still be carrying them. Good luck trying to reason with a psycho carrying an automatic.
Perhaps with some historical basis? When I say "story" I mean "read it in the news". So yes, it has "historical basis".Quote:
And yes, that's merely a story perhaps with some historical basis; but most gun owners A) keep their guns in inaccessible areas especially since they have to with kids B) there's no TIME C) most crimes in the home are never solved with gun ownership
Also, most isn't "all", I'm fairly certain those who have used guns to defend themselves would tell you to shut up.
Um, people like that nut who killed 27 people?...Quote:
Originally Posted by Love'sReject [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
There is police to protect, not other civilians. And see, 300 policemen couldn't stop him from killing those kids. How about that?
There were 300 policemen attending school that day?!?! :oQuote:
Originally Posted by Petit Papillon [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
Should I ask why 300 policemen were spending the day at that elementary school?
Plus, you must have some scary people there, scary criminals walking around with guns... No wonder you need to protect yourself by having your own gun -_- Geez... Talking to a wall.
O rly? So regular citizens will march to a known dangerous situation with arms and take on a shooter such as today's? Gee, hm, I've NEVER seen that happen. I don't think any mob will EVER do that; vigilante justice in situations like that only further jeopardize kids. You trust militias composed of morons to shoot accurately or plan strategically? The common citizen is NOT SWAT.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotaru [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
As for your first argument, you missed MINE: The "eh, even if we illegalized it, we're still a buncha stupid ineffective dumb**** Americans so let's just not do anything, anyway" kind of mentality pisses me off. It's faulty logic.
Yeah, sure, all 50 annual "guns saved my life" folks would surely have such an argument at a convention for victims of gun violence
Talking to a wall? You're commenting a post about a man who just killed 27 innocent people, I'd call that a criminal you moron.
HAHAHAHAHA ooooh, you want elementary school teachers to carry a gun with themselves? :D You're hilarious. Stop it, really...Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotaru [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
And watch that mouth, I'm not insulting you. Don't forget I'm a mod and also a member of this forum. If you lack arguments, then just leave.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotaru [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
Well, since most crime seems to be outdoors and since most states don't allow legal carrying of arms, the defense argument fails again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Petit Papillon [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
Besides, don't act like nutsos are isolated to America: you Europeans can't even play a soccer game without molotovs being thrown, or rocket launchers shooting at planes or shit like that.
And you definitely don't understand the language of irony... Oh man :[Quote:
Originally Posted by Love'sReject [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
Lol, ok, fine I'll grant you that. Irony doesn't come across as well through text.
You could deduce that from my earlier posts (・へ・)Quote:
Originally Posted by Love'sReject [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
For those of you too stupid to use Google:
http://www.jessicaswell.com/mt/archives/2008/04/pizza-hut-delivery-man-de.php
http://rongstad.blogspot.com/2012/04/87-year-old-man-defends-himself.html
http://www.wesh.com/Walmart-Reopens-After-Fight/-/11788876/13120110/-/bjsjxl/-/index.html#ixzz1mKM6LUlT
http://www.learnaboutguns.com/2009/07/24/82-year-old-man-defends-himself-against-a-violent-home-invader/
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-07-15/news/chi-fatal-shooting-was-selfdefense-judge-rules-20110715_1_judge-rules-fatal-shooting-samuel-fullilove
LR, here is the story that "may have historical basis" - http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/01/05/young-mother-defends-self-and-baby-kills-intruder/
http://townhall.com/columnists/celiabigelow/2012/10/20/12yearold_defends_herself_with_gun_proves_need_of_ 2nd_amendment/page/full/
http://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/armed-citizen/2012/22-year-old-woman-defends-herself-against-armed-home-invaders,-nbc-dfw,-dallas,-texas-101812.aspx
Like I said, if you don't want a gun, that's fine, no one who has a permit to carry will be upset if ever anything should happen to you, believe me.
I know this is a difficult concept to grasp for some of you hippies, but you're attempting to remove gun rights from the bad guys. It won't work, you'll never remove them from the people who really shouldn't have them. If you don't want to carry a gun, don't. Simple. But if a guy wants to get a permit to carry and he uses it responsibly, that's none of your business and you have no reasonable argument for why it is if he's not harming any innocent people. The guys out there who do harm others are an entirely different issue. You can say, "The world is safe" all day long, the news says otherwise.
OK, now I retroactively just made everything I said ironic. You should've deduced that from my future posts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Petit Papillon [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
It seemed like you were insulting me and assuming that it was directed at me, saying "Talking to a wall" is definitely going to receive a similarly rude response. My opinion is obviously the least popular, what sort of reaction am I supposed to have to "peace and love, you are stupid"?Quote:
Originally Posted by Petit Papillon [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
I am FAR from a hippie (those dirty, Thoreau-reading know-nothings are the grandfathers to the stupid indie kid of today). The fact is, there is no legitimate reason anyone SHOULD have one. I might have lacked a persuasive argument to move your obstinate mind why we should REVOKE the right, but there is no firm basis on which anyone should HAVE that right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotaru [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
Oh, apparently, he was being "ironic"...in ways that certainly don't effectively convey irony. -_-Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotaru [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
Oh boy... Where am I...
I just gave you a reason. Once guns came onto the scene, everything changed. People keep saying, "The world is getting worse". No, weapons got better. The problem is who has them. You will never get them off the streets, ever. People who have a permit to carry and aren't insane feel safer having them. My Dad has a permit to carry, so did my Grandmother after my Grandfather died and she was left alone. If you can't think of a reason to take them, that's all there needs to be said.Quote:
Originally Posted by Love'sReject [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
Wall - moron.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotaru [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
There is a significant difference. If you don't see that, then I'm sorry for you. And I didn't call you stupid, you put that in my mouth. So yeah. Watch out or next time you earn your first point.
Again, just because you can't get something off the streets does not justify it being legalized (otherwise, why wasn't legislature passed to allow everyone to buy coke in the 80s? and that's only a little "harmless drug" not a "weapon").
A major fallacy is the "huurrr, uhh, derp, that Colorado massacre wouldn't have happened if derp movie patrons were allowed to carry guns durr...." I think most likely patrons would increase the casualties because the common gun carrying citizen is not very smart.
So then it's perfectly acceptable for me to say that talking to you is like talking to a wall? And that's not an actionable offense?Quote:
Originally Posted by Petit Papillon [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
You aren't comparing similar things. Possessing coke doesn't have an upside that I'm aware of... xDQuote:
Originally Posted by Love'sReject [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
Any druggie could probably rationalize it, in the way gun-toting nutbags can. Anyone can virtually justify anything with a specious, well articulated argument. Doesn't prove they're right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotaru [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
Can't believe I need to explain to you what "talking to a wall" means. It means you are STUBBORN. IS IT OFFENSIVE TO YOU? WELL I guess not. WOULD YOU BE OFFENDED BY A WORD "MORON"? I guess yeah. So watch your mouth next time. If people you know allow you to call them moron for free, then do that, but I'm not your friend, and we don't know each other.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotaru [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
Believe me, not being a mod's pal doesn't give me nightmares. I think you need to understand that you aren't the center of the world, orange traffic cone name or not. What one thing means to you means something else to somebody else. To me, when that phrase is used, it doesn't mean stubborn, it means stupid. You could have said the same phrase to anyone else I know and they'd have had just as nasty of a reaction, it's similar to, "Talking to you is like talking to a box of rocks". And if I think someone is calling me stupid, yes, I respond in kind. If that truly isn't what you meant I apologize but even if you said I'm stubborn, so is everyone involved in the argument, I'm no different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Petit Papillon [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
Tell me why reasonable, responsible citizens with permits shouldn't have them and I'll concede the point. It's really that simple.Quote:
Originally Posted by Love'sReject [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
Then next time check dictionary if you're not sure, before you start insulting people around. You non-center of the world. Geez...
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/be-like-talking-to-a-brick-wall
If I weren't a mod, I would just report you and you would get infracted anyway. Like this, I'm just giving you a warning by telling you to have some respect to me, as I have to you, cause I could start calling you names as well.
Devastating for everyone, my heart goes out to them. The poor little ones who never had a chance and the survivors whose lives will never be the same, ever again.
In theory, I GUESS guns might be OK in the hands of reasonable citizens but what's the definition of "reasonable"? What about that guy that was perfectly normal before he went on that shooting rampage at the mall a few days ago? This isn't "Minority Report": we don't have the benefit of precogs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotaru [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]