The Day Rowen Gave Up

Hey LoveForum friends,
I was really hoping I would never have to post here again, but this was out of my hands.. The love of my life (Dave) and very reason I've been happy countless times on this forum the past few months left me last night, at approximately 6:25 PM.. We were meeting at his apartment to talk about his fear of our age difference and beoming official when he started with, "Obviously, I love you very much, but I hope we can still be friends.." From there, it just went from bad to worse, as he told me that he isn't in love with me like he thought but rather loves me like a friend or family. He's felt this way since a few weeks ago, but he stalled it because he wanted to be sure..and then when he was sure, he was afraid it'd mean I'd never want to be friends and hated the idea of hurting me. I spent an hour crying in his arms, and I still don't even know how I feel. It's a mixture of many different emotions including confusion..and he continued to tell me the reason we haven't had sex lately is that he didn't want to take advantage of the situation and hurt me worse that way.. And as if to show me he was sorry, he insisted on taking me to dinner afterward; let me tell you that I no longer want to set foot inside a Panera much less eat a bagel..

Friends and fellow posters, I barely got any sleep last night, as all I could focus on was my track record with relationships and people in general. And I reached the conclusion that, for me, relationships are merely a form of Russian roulette, and I'm just not that lucky. Many different men have claimed I'm just the friend, and for once I agree. I'm not cut out for being the husband of a man or even a boyfriend. I wish it weren't so, but it is.

Therefore, even though I am young, I have reached the conclusion that I no longer wish to subject myself to chasing relationships. I will allow for the occasisional pleasure of the flesh, but I refuse to search for a boyfriend. And I hope I can help at least one of you with my story by telling you not to dream too much. Be realistic. Otherwise, you will only allow yourself to be where I am.
I'm sorry I wasted your time. Thank you.

I'm so sorry Rowen :(. *hugs*

I'm pretty much right there with you, only I am playing with the idea that I have chosen inappropriate men because I am - on some level - emotionally unavailable, rather than just unlucky. Not sure that feels right, but at least it gives me some sense of control, rather than just leaving it all up to luck.

I think the chasing was the problem. You want(ed?) a relationship so badly that you settled. I think not chasing that, and letting it come on its own will yield better results, even if you don't get married, your next relationship will probably be much more fulfilling.

I'm really sorry to hear this Rowen. I think it's far too early for you to give up, but you should definitely take some time to recover. I'd be willing to get that as you heal, you'll change your mind.

Thank you, everyone for your support and responses. *hugs Searock* Thank you. And Vashti, that does make sense, and I'm sorry you seem to be at that place too. The reason I say luck, rather than emotional unavailability, is more to do with the fact I see many coincidences with he course of my involvement with men. It starts out terrific, as they chase me before I chase them. And from there it continues until something major (in a good way) happens in the guy's life. From there, either it's that he drifts away, most of the time around either my birthday or his, and something troublesome happens we get through. Then he continues to grow cold until he ends it. Perhaps that may just sound like a bunch of coincidences or crazy, but that's always the course in which things progress for some reason. :S But at least in a position like this, we decide the rules.

To Backup: That would certainly make sense, but for the longest time before we went out he was chasing me. I wasn't necessarily sure there would be chemistry and there was a more complicated reason which restricted me from meeting him while I felt like that. So we talked as friends for a while, and after one or two times of asking me out, we started talking deeper. Maybe it sounds like settling, but it was the first time a man held the same views towards settling down and relationships as I did. And as I talked to him more and let him in, especially when we shared our stories and it just felt right, the more I longed for the time to come when I could meet him. And as soon as we did, it just clicked. :S I guess towards the end it was more me chasing him, but before the rough patch I described in the one thread where I asked for advice, he put in just as much effort. The only thing I feel I settled on was the issue of children, though I was never certain if I'd be a good Dad. But I can see your point.

And to HIA: Thank you for all you did talking me through how to proceed when things got rough with him. I've been trying just to get some more sleep and watch some movies, but it kind of sucks thinking it over because it still confuses me. It shouldn't, I realize, because at least he tried being considerate about it and was just honest about how he felt. Though, one of my friends who is in his age group said it could sound like a mid-life crisis because of the way Dave expressed he feels like he's not cut out for relationships. I'd like to believe he'll come back, but I don't know. But in the meantime, maybe you're right and I just need time. :S But the idea of putting myself out there for anyone like that again is a little repulsive, though it may pass with time. For the time being, I'd just like to sleep. :S And as horrible as it sounds, I really hope this was just a phase and that he'll come back to me.

I know this probably won't help now, but someday maybe you'll think about this and realize I was right:

When I was your age, a young woman that I thought was the love of my life, my one-and-only ripped my heart out of my chest and ate it in front of me. The pain was intense - actual physical pain, as I'm sure you know now.

Then she kept writing me letters for weeks, basically repeating her reasons for breaking up with me with variations. Every week I'd get another letter, and every week I'd tear it open, hoping against hope that she'd changed her mind, and of course she hadn't. The pain didn't get a chance to heal because of that. She successfully kept the wound open and raw so she could pour more salt into it.

I was utterly convinced that I'd never love again. Hell, I pretty much hated women for a while.

You know my story now. You know how false that was. It will be the same for you. One day you'll meet your one-and-only, the man of your dreams, the man that won't be perfect, but he'll be perfect for you.

There will be some difficulties on the way. You'll have to leave your heart open despite heartbreak and loss. You'll have to re-learn to trust every time, and every time it'll get a little bit harder.

You'll have to separate the grain from the chaff, and because of that you'll discard some people and some will discard you - if you keep up your therapy, you'll learn to recognize the glaring problems much more quickly, and it will often only take a date or two for you to say "nope" and move on.

You'll have to learn not to get too entangled with someone just because they're convenient - else you may be unavailable when your true one-and-only does make an appearance... and you know from my history how tragic that can be.

You're a good guy Rowen, intelligent, sensitive, empathetic and caring.

The worst thing you can do is give up.

Oh... and you'd be well-served to stop making assumptions about what other people's actions mean, and start learning to communicate effectively. The "Crazy Girlfriend" act will send a lot of people packing quickly.

Don't give up Rowen! Trust me I get it, I've had my heart torn to shreds before and I wanted to die when it happened to me but if I gave in to my demons that told me the same shit your demons are telling you I would be alone and miserable toward the opposite sex (and God knows how many other things) still today, and who knows what else would be going wrong in my life as I type this? As mentioned in previous posts yes there are certain ways you may need to change your approach to certain things but the love in your heart and soul is a gift and if you refuse to share it then all hope for you is lost. I don't know if there's anything I can say to make you feel better but if there's anything I can say to help you make yourself feel better in the long run it's not to give up hope. If life wants to push you down and pound your head into the ground, get up and get ready for more. Take the hits, let your skull get crushed, let your bones get broken, let your dick get torn off, whatever. But don't ever give up on yourself, don't even mention it again. Wear a shock collar and hit the button every time it crosses your mind if you have to, just get that notion the **** out of your world.

You're a good man Rowen, surely a better man than one who runs away from his problems and throws in the towel as soon as he goes down a few times....right?

Eh, Rowen just needs a break. It's best to avoid romantic entanglements after a heartbreak until you feel like you can handle the possibility of rejection again.

Sure, but it's not like nobody has ever allowed a heartbreak to permanently ruin them before. Many people allow it to have a lesser negative impact than actual ruin for many years to come. I don't expect that out of Rowen but I don't want to just make assumptions either.

Once again, I'd like to thank all of you for responding. :S It's greatly appreciated that you all took the time to give your insight, hope, and support.

To HIA: I can understand what you mean by your story and all.. :S I guess that asking me everyday how I'm doing is a bit like that, though part of me thinks he might just feel guilty because he saw with his own eyes how it destroyed me. :S I know I'm not the best guy at relationships and did react badly in a few instances where we faced difficulty. I admit that. What's worse though is that he apologized for that misunderstanding when he realized my side (if you're referencing the day I called you which I feel really bad for waking you). And he told me that he holds nothing I did against me. So, yes, I need to work on some of my actions/reactions and I'll try to. But could it be a combination of all three which pushed him away? ...Could it be a phase or a midlife crisis? A number of little things about this situation make me wonder, though I'm not sure if he'll come back.. Do you know any stories of it being possibe-not just HIA but any of you? He is entering his 40's not to bash his age. I intend to keep up my work with therapy, but you once said that you get as many chances as you need to make it happen...maybe this is it. I'm not sure though-just confused.

To dickriculous: Thank you for your very thoughtful post. *hugs* It's just that it's not really just Dave; if it were, it'd be a microscopic bit easier maybe. :S It feels like a dog and pony show trying to get to know a guy to begin with, and many of them seem to lack a certain spark about them. :S But what you're saying about being stronger than giving up makes sense. I'd like to be stronger and be able to walk away feeling okay, or maybe I am and just don't realize it because I got here instead of giving up years ago. I just want something real like what I had with Dave-that unspoken connection where he understands me. I like challeneges in the men I date, oddly-not the ones which just surrender themselves and have no mystery. But if given the chance, I'd try again with Dave. Maybe I sound like a doormat, but it's true. I can't really say whether or not I'll try again and keep at it, but for now I love my family's sofa, my stacks of books, my stacks of DVD's, and the TV. And it confuses me as to why it's so hurtful if I have a gift..No offense, but I don't understand that.

To Vashti: I can't say whether or not I'll try again. Perhaps I might, but for now, I don't feel like going through the same process of signing up for online dating and trying to meet other guys. I don't care for trying that, but I'd like to still hold hope that Dave will come back. And I really hope you find happiness, even if you found it now with being in a similar place. If you need someone to vent to (though I know we've never talked much and this goes for any of you) I'm here for you.
Thank you all for your responses again :S

Ofcourse at times like this you ask yourself "Whats wrong with me, why I cant keep a man in my life, are Im ugly, am too fat, is it age diference, do our life paths goes too diferent ways? Well it can be anything.
But I think if someone picks up twice younger partner then its for the great sex. I think guy knew what hes doing. Thats why he was able to leave you cause his feelings wasnt equal to yours. And with that alone dude dont deserve you. You shouldnt take him back if he comes.

Its great that you dont keep relationships in secret so now your family can support you when you need it the most. I would post a link from my breakup guide but then again you know where to find it just in case ^_-

P.S. After topic name I thought Rowen is giving up on loveforum.

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Originally Posted by Rowen [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

To Vashti: I can't say whether or not I'll try again. Perhaps I might, but for now, I don't feel like going through the same process of signing up for online dating and trying to meet other guys.

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I'm struggling with this, too. I am older than you are, and my time and options are much more limited. I am really feeling like I may very well end up alone if I keep waiting to feel "ready". YOU are young, and that is a luxury; take all the time you need.

^^^Vashti's right.

I didn't mean to imply that you shouldn't take any time. Take all the time you need.

Thank you for replying, PC, but I'm not sold on the idea that's why he went out with me. I say this because if it had been for the sex, he would have taken the opportunities I gave him instead of telling me he was tired (when, he said, he was really just not feeling what he once felt). And he always kept a good level of respect for me and my body/personal space throughout our relationship. No matter how it hurts, I do respect him for that. :S Though I'm not even sure if he will come back..

To Vashti: That makes sense, and I'll try to. As for you, though, I hope you find the right one. Remember there is someone special for you. He's just searching for you and running late. :S

And HIA I understand what you were getting at which I agree that there are some things I need to change. And who knows what will happen in the future? Maybe this is all part of fates' plans, though I don't want to invest lots of hope in him coming back even if it'd be great if he did. :S I'll take my time and see what happens with life. :S

Thank you, everyone. I'm here if you ever need support too. :S

Rowen, I've been trying to figure out what to say to you and I'm having trouble getting the wording right. I mean well, so please forgive me if what I write sounds bad.

When you first told us about Dave, I read the age difference and thought "this is gonna end in tears", but I didn't write it because I really like you and decided to hold my tongue instead. Thing is, the things we're told to avoid in relationships are there for a reason. Things such as LDRs, rebounds, age differences, FWB and so on. We're told to avoid them because the odds of heartbreak from these ventures are so high.

Sure, rule breaking relationships can and do sometimes work out. Heaven knows, I broke numerous rules when I met my now hubby....but the fact that we turned out as a successful couple was far more about good luck than good management. I think that if one is going to venture into a relationship which goes against the rules, it must be done so with a degree of acceptance of the high odds of failure. I guess this is what you mean about "being realistic".

Rowen, as remote as it seems now, you will recover. And you will find new love. You're still young and you're a great guy and you deserve it.

basilandthyme, you said the things I too was thinking but not saying.

Thank you both, ladies, and basil I don't hold those words against you at all. To be honest, when I started going out with him and feeling something deeper, I knew there was a good chance there would be a lot of obstacles, especially with friends and family. He told me himself that men in his family don't last nearly as long as the women do. And he said with that I could very well be in my 40's when he would pass away. And I found myself thinking what his family would think of me in that situation..his sister and her kids viewing me as cheap or something because I had love with an older man. And would that tarnish his memory.. :S But I accepted it when we discussed it, as I knew there was certainly something special about him. And what surprised me was how easy it was for me to tell my mother and so many others about him. :S And the way he used to act made me believe he accepted it as well, which is another thing which makes me wonder if it's a phase or if everything between us was just a daydream. It scared me to death when he finally told me his mother's reaction to my age, and part of me wondered if it'd make him do this. I don't know though.

Perhaps if I were older, a lot of things in my life would be different..but I'm not. Hell, there were certainly times I wish I was, as I'm not satisfied with only being the college student. I don't want the college student social life of parties and meaningless fun. I'd just like a double career of writing and teaching and a modest home, but also someone to come home to everyday for the rest of my life. Perhaps I'm too eager, but with Dave, he always knew what I was looking for and what I wanted. :S I don't know if that sounds crazy, though, but why am I this age? :S

As for finding new love, a large part of me doesn't want to because it would be replacing what Dave and I had. This might pass with time, yes, but I guess only time will tell. Thank you both for your support though. :S

EDIT: Do any of you think he might come back? :S

Rowan, don't give up. Just change your M.O. try dating someone thats different then the "type" you normally find attractive. Spend lots of time with them before getting intimate. I don't care what anyone says differently, when you're basing your "love" on the chemistry, the lust factor, then it's bound to burn out much faster then if you were actually compatible and comfortable. Chemistry can build. Particularily if you get to really know someone. Why do you think so many opposite sex friends end up re-thinking the platonic? ;)

Everyone wants the Alpha but not everyone is capable of maintaining a relationship with one. Except perhaps another Alpha and then egos often just get in the way. Best to find someone that just is a good guy (not alpha not beta) that is most like you.

I'm sorry you're hurting. You've got lots of advise from this forum on how to speed up your recovery so do do what you have to, to get to the stage of indifference to him. Don't let this jade you though. Its just another opportunity to find the person you were actually meant to spend the rest of your life with. Consider him a nice diversion on your way to your ultimate goal. Thank him for being honest and not stringing you along. Don't be his demoted state of "just friend" You don't need past lovers keeping you mired to them. You don't need casual sex with someone you want(ed) more with. It just keeps you stagnated from reaching your goal.

Be well.

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Originally Posted by Rowen [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

To dickriculous: Thank you for your very thoughtful post. *hugs* It's just that it's not really just Dave; if it were, it'd be a microscopic bit easier maybe. :S It feels like a dog and pony show trying to get to know a guy to begin with, and many of them seem to lack a certain spark about them. :S But what you're saying about being stronger than giving up makes sense. I'd like to be stronger and be able to walk away feeling okay, or maybe I am and just don't realize it because I got here instead of giving up years ago. I just want something real like what I had with Dave-that unspoken connection where he understands me. I like challeneges in the men I date, oddly-not the ones which just surrender themselves and have no mystery. But if given the chance, I'd try again with Dave. Maybe I sound like a doormat, but it's true. I can't really say whether or not I'll try again and keep at it, but for now I love my family's sofa, my stacks of books, my stacks of DVD's, and the TV. And it confuses me as to why it's so hurtful if I have a gift..No offense, but I don't understand that.

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Anytime *hugs back*, let me clarify a couple of things though. First off, the kind of strength I'm talking about isn't where you just have a heart of steel or whatever and simply walk away from these things unfazed. You can cry however much you have to cry, be however devastated is appropriate for who you are and what your situation entails, etc. The strength I'm talking about involves picking yourself back up after you've cried all of the tears you have to cry and continuing to seek what it is that you're seeking in life knowing what the risks are. The cold, hard reality of this world that we live in is that you have to open yourself up in a way that makes you vulnerable to getting your soul crushed by the outside world in order to have any chance at attaining your deepest desires. Those who have the strength to make this choice have a legitimate chance to make their dreams come true. Those who do not end up resigned to a life of quiet mediocrity wondering what could have been, and carrying that uncertainty with them to the grave. Taking these risks is the price you have to pay for pursuing your deepest desires in life.

As far as the love inside of you being a gift, don't shortchange how powerful it is. Showing love to others is something this world desperately needs more of. It will flourish with more of it and it will perish with too little of it, it's that simple. It hurts because whoever you were sharing it with stopped reciprocating...this is what I was referring to before. You wanted something and when you were trying to attain it you left yourself open to where you were vulnerable to getting your soul crushed by the outside world in order to attain it - you had no other choice if you wanted to have any chance at attaining it. The risk didn't pay off the way you were hoping it would...that's one of the things that can happen when you leave yourself open like that. It's the price of finding success, happiness, fulfillment, and just about everything else in life worth having. There are steps you can take to mitigate this risk to a degree - ways you can change your approach and control certain behaviors - but ultimately there will be a degree of risk and you have to be willing to take it if you want to be able to find your way in this world and pursue the things you want the most out of life.

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Originally Posted by Rowen

As for finding new love, a large part of me doesn't want to because it would be replacing what Dave and I had. This might pass with time, yes, but I guess only time will tell

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This is normal at first. It will pass to some degree with time but a lot of it is going to be on you to get this sorted out. This will be easier with time but it's still going to be more up to you than anything, and your support network to help you along the way. I personally don't see it as "replacing" each other, you're going your separate ways to pursue something totally different - something that WILL work out and bring both of you long-term happiness.



And to answer your last question....no I don't think he will come back. If he does I see it ending even worse down the road than it has now, post-breakup reconciliations tend to be short lived and the falls you take the second/third/etc time down the road can be even worse than the first time as codependency rears its ugly head. It seems you haven't yet accepted that it's really over, but there's not much else you can do to move on with your life until you've cleared that hurdle. Sorry Rowen, I'm sure that's the last thing you wanted to hear right now but the last thing you need for your own good is false hope.

Rowen, I am sorry your going through this. Yup, I surely am.
I understand why your closing your self off in a way, at least, at this moment. Nothing wrong with putting up some protective barriers; alas, one day, I do hope you won't be too jaded to drop the wall.

Your a good man Rowen. Don't forget it.

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Originally Posted by Rowen [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

EDIT: Do any of you think he might come back? :S

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I don't think it's so likely. Dave is close to my age, and it seems the older we get the more firm we are with decision making. I think it's something about having the life experience to trust our own judgement.

Of course, this is a generalisation. There are flaky old people and young people who are mature beyond their years.

Hang in there.

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Originally Posted by Rowen [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

EDIT: Do any of you think he might come back? :S

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Sorry man... no. You need to focus on moving on.

Agree, moving on are the best thing to do. Its easier to live with clear heart,mind and soul. There are big chance he will return. In few years or so. If this happened before it can happen again and again. if thats what you want. Still Rowen I think its stupid to run away from someone who loves you. You seem to have bright future and with that alone you sport higher value in my eyes.

Anyway it was Dave who find you. You didnt had to do anything. Being passive will lead to that your life is in someone else hands. You can be active and choose your partners rather than get choosen.
Depends on you.

Thank you all very much for replying... It really means a lot to me that you've all posted, even if there is no hope for Dave and I. :S

To Wakeup: You and the others raise some valid points. However, I will admit that I've never been emotionally strong enough to cut an ex out of my life like that... :S Back when I met that drunk I dated (John), he left me, tried coming back twice after our final breakup, and in the end, I was nowhere near strong enough to unfriend/block him from Facebook and delete his number and all the pictures and texts of him... :S I guess you could say I'm a person that is terrified of losing people from his life. That's probably why I don't really allow a lot of people to stick to me unless I talk to them quite a lot. And in the end, it was John who unfriended me and deleted my number, just as Corey did later on, though he came back to add my Facebook again this past New Year's Day. I just usually let it happen because I hate the fear associated with not seeing someone from my life anymore without abhorring them. That's why I didn't delete the voicemails and texts from Corey until many months later, and the reason I have over 500 of Dave's texts locked on my phone. :S I can be more open in those I date, though, I admit. :S I tried dating a few types of guys back before I met Dave, and they were nice. Perhaps, I did not give them enough of a chance.

Dickriculous, what you're saying makes a lot of sense. I suppose, in that way, I did have strength in the past, though I'll be honest that it scares the shit out of me right now to one day be in a position like that again. Yes, as you say, the right risks work out and the wrong ones do not. Yet, I wish I knew how many risks I had to have blow up in my face before the right risk worked out. And it amazes me how some people can simply be unfazed the way a number of my ex's were, including Dave. He's thrilled with a new job promotion he got literally two days after he dumped me. That kind of adds to this fear of moving on which leads me to wonder if I can have the strength to pick up those pieces... Does that make any sense at all? :S

As for the love being a gift, I can see your point. If someone falls in love with an eggshell, they'll never see that there's an entire life inside of it. So, I guess by this logic it makes sense that I shouldn't be colder. Part of me feels a bit colder now, so maybe anyone asking for my advice should disregard it now, but you're right that I need to show that again with time. But I don't just want to be paired with a man who takes it and takes it because hecan accept it when he doesn't give back what he takes; I want to mean something to someone. And I admit that the memories of Dave make it harder to accept he doesn't give that back because there were many beautiful emotional moments with him. They weren't merely physical- just the way we could share. :S And I say that you're right that I haven't accepted it.. I cry myself to sleep vocalizing apologies and asking no one in particular, out loud, to bring him back. Then, I wake up after an hour or two, turn over, and do it again. And though maybe it's pathetic, I blame myself and my faults for everything even though he had already told me over and over that night that it was his feelings changing- nothing more. I suppose I feel like if I were emotionally stronger or better looking or gave him more space or was more confident or something that maybe it would have skewed the timeline and delivered us to a world where I didn't have to wake up and remember he's not there like that anymore. So, you're right. :S

Thank you, mollymari. Though I don't remember having talked to you much on here, thank you for your words. They mean a lot. Perhaps I'm a bit too trusting of certain people like this.

Basil, what you wrote about people becoming more firm in their decision making actually reminds me of something he said that night, as well. He told me, while he was telling me about his feeling of not being meant for a relationship, that the older he gets, the more set he is in his ways.. :S So, he confirmed your logic, but I'll try to hang in there. It still feels like a dream, though, but I know it'll pass in time. I used to be mature enough for him, but maybe I'm not. I don't really know, though I do know I don't really feel as though I fit in with my age group.

HIA, thank you for your honesty. :S I guess I'm doing myself and him a dis-service now by trying to hold onto hope. I can't make him love me, even if I wish it was a phase.

And thank you, PC. *hugs* Perhaps, that's his major flaw, as mine is my insecurity. And I suppose I can still make the rules one day, after I've come out of closing myself off for a while... I can at least try, as everyone here has been nice enough to support me and give me their kind advice. Yet, maybe it needs to be a balance of choosing...not just me choosing and not just them. Just...mutual?

Thank you, everyone, for your honesty. It really, really means a lot to me. What you're all saying makes a lot of sense, and you're right. Dave made his bed, and he doesn't want me sleeping next to him anymore. So, I'll try to find someone new, one day. For now, I guess what this will be is possibly a state of hibernation.. There's a chance I'll find someone I can trust and give myself to entirely one day, but I don't want to be anyone's doormat anymore. So, in this break or hibernation or whatever it's called, I say when, who, and how. :S I'd love to finish the novel I wrote 3/4 of while I was with Dave, though I admit whenever I even look at the Word document title, I feel a little haunted. But since it has a very sad ending (I planned it that way from the first page because there's a sequel that ends on a positive note), maybe I can use this as fuel? I guess it could get my mind off it; this semester, I'm going to have all morning classes, which means I'll be done by noon on the 2-3 days of of the week I have class. Long nights and all.. Other than that, if I can't, I'd just like to sleep without interruption (not like now where I wake up off and on throughout the night). Does that work? :S

EDIT: Decided the minute my novel is published I'm hitting the road... I'll take the T-bird I inherited from my grandfather's passing and just take a few weeks to drive South and sort of see some of the places I've been wanting to see. Some of the plantations and battle reenactments...that sort of thing. :S Just me and my T-bird.