Do you think she's interested?

[caged]

Hi there, I'm Caged! I'm new to the forum, and very inexperienced in the dating world. So go easy on me please!

I am 27 years old, and I met this girl around a month and a half ago, and we hit it off pretty well. I'm a very shy guy when you are starting to meet me, but when I get comfortable with someone, if I like that person, I will show more of myself towards that person. I do this consciously as a "defense" (I've been used multiple times in the past by friends and lovers, I went through depression and built these "walls" around me. For a while I could not control it, but I can now). So we went out 4 times, last time was last two nights ago. All of our dates went amazingly well, we have a lot in common and spoke to each other for hours. I started getting comfortable with her around our third date, then she had to leave town for a while (3 weeks) and we barely spoke to eachother during that time. Then, 2 nights ago we went out. I was (again) a bit shy during the first hour or so, but began feeling comfortable around her again. And I would like to make the next move. What is the problem?

The problem is that I am horrible at reading signs. I can't tell if what she does with me is something she would do with any friend (give or take 2 or 3 things), since I've seen girls being like that around (male) friends before, or if she likes me / is interested. So I get nervous (I have Anxiety Disorder btw) whenever I think would be a good time to just go ahead and DO something. I know, in this day and age 4 dates and no move is very lame (and I punch myself mentally for this a lot), but I just want things to go smooth, since I really like this girl. So I get a lot of signs from her, but more often than not I feel that they're mixed. I also send out very obvious signs towards her - she HAS to know I'm interested in her by now from those. Here's a list of signs I've received from her: she rested her head on my shoulder twice, while laughing at something I said, but it was really fast, she did not rest her head more than 2 seconds (I kinda froze a bit during the first time ahah); once, we were at a teashop (very late at night) and we were on the final stretch of conversation on a certain topic, and she just laid her head down on the table resting / looking sleepy and stared at me with a smile, she stood there for at least a minute; she takes a long time to reply to my texts (we use a service that tells the sender when a message has been read - she once took 3 days to reply to me after reading it) and she usually quickly ends all of our text conversations, and her replies are really small - except when we're planning a date, a (girl) friend of mine told me she could be playing hard to get and / or just prefers to speak with me personally instead of wasting conversation topics on text, which makes sense I guess, but I don't have a lot of confidence so it bugs me a bit; she cancelled two of our dates on the day (once work, once family); when we're walking we walk very closely to each other (nothing I'm forcing, it's mutual), we bump into each other (softly) a lot while walking - but, she always has her hands on her pocket - OK, it's cold, but how could I go for a hand hold like this? ; she tells me a lot of stories which involve her and other (male) friends going out - nothing regarding romantic endeavours or something, just friends (and just her and another friend, not a group), but still, it's almost always men; she asks me a lot of questions about me and my family (I do too, since I want to know her better, but she almost always has the incentive to do that); her eyes widen a lot when I'm telling her something and she smiles a lot while looking directly at my eyes; she has told me some personal stuff about her (one of which she told me she had never told anyone else) - I'm kind of afraid this might be a sign of the frienzone? :S; when we're eating a meal we sit directly in front of eachother, and she constantly has her feet on my side of the table, which I accidently bump a LOT during the meal, lol (she removes them after this for a little while); last date was planned by her and it was a very romantic place, she also planned our next outting and it's also VERY romantic (we're going stargazing - I don't think this is a "friend" thing tbh); the fact that she went away for 3 weeks and didn't reply to my texts or send me anything (except when she came back, telling me she was back) kind of bugs me; we've had a couple of these dates cut short because she wanted to go to sleep early (again, my (girl) friend told me she probably didn't want to burn out of things to talk about / do - idk); she has told me on an IM service she was going to sleep and we say goodbye, but she actually stays on a lot longer (and active), multiple times - and our conversations by IM are also very quick and she ends them quickly.

Uff, sorry for the wall of text, I didn't imagine it would come out this long. Also, I don't have that much experience with dating. My first date with her was my first date in around 6 years. And I think I've had more dates with her than I've had (in total) with other girls. So yeah. I've had 2 girlfriends before, but these are relationships that were bad, based on lies and hurt me a lot. So I don't have much confidence, which hurts a lot of opportunities. I think from that list you can tell which signs are dead-on and which are kind of mixed, a lot of those I've seen girls do on guys who were just friends, so I don't know if I should go for it or not. I value her as a person, and I would not like to lose the opportunity of having her as a friend if things don't go so well, but we can't have everything now, can we... I'm just very confused.

Your thoughts would be great. Thanks a lot for reading this!

[smackie9]

If you have anxiety disorder and you still are struggling with normal dating practices, maybe you should seek out professional help. Drug therapy of some kind should help you over come these barriers. There isn't anything anyone on her can do but throw advice that would take confidence that you don't have. You are 27 not 16. This sort of thing should be old hat for an adult of your age, even with limited experience. Another thing is you have emotional baggage that really needs to be worked through with a therapist. I don't think with random online dating advice is going to be any good for you. Sorry but therapy, and maybe some medication if prescribed is my advice to you.

[caged]

If you have anxiety disorder and you still are struggling with normal dating practices, maybe you should seek out professional help. Drug therapy of some kind should help you over come these barriers. There isn't anything anyone on her can do but throw advice that would take confidence that you don't have. You are 27 not 16. This sort of thing should be old hat for an adult of your age, even with limited experience. Another thing is you have emotional baggage that really needs to be worked through with a therapist. I don't think with random online dating advice is going to be any good for you. Sorry but therapy, and maybe some medication if prescribed is my advice to you.

Hi, thanks for your reply. I am in therapy (trying a no drug approach first), but I really like this girl, and I don't really want to wait for therapy to show results to try something. I posted this up very spontaneously while giving a lot of thought about my situation with her, I guess I was looking for a quick way to build my confidence. I am aware that whatever people tell me here will not help in that regard, but it could still be helpful advice. I don't know, I'm in a place where I feel that anything would help.

[smackie9]

Sorry but there is no magic remedy, even a temporary one, these things take time unfortunately...

We have given advice to many individuals like yourself, but they always say easier said than done.

Since you are seeing a therapist, they are the one you should be asking for advice for this situation.

[caged]

Sorry but there is no magic remedy, even a temporary one, these things take time unfortunately...

We have given advice to many individuals like yourself, but they always say easier said than done.

Since you are seeing a therapist, they are the one you should be asking for advice for this situation.

I have my next appointment in a week, that's after the date. I was looking for a quick "fix" (I know it's no fix, but it could help). And yeah "easier said than done" are words I've used a lot when given advice. Even I grew to dislike these words. Thanks again for your input / advice

[smackie9]

Agreed, we don't like those words either. That's why we hesitate to give our advice because it seems to fall on deaf ears, or get bombarded with excuses. Just keep us updated. We always like to hear about any new developments.

[Valixy]

Since she likes going out with you, she definitely likes you. If it's only as a friend or more you probably need a little bit more time in order to see it clearly. Some of the things she does like leaning her head on your shoulder, looking deeply into your eyes and choosing romantic places for your dates, could suggest a romantic interest but in order for you to really know, you'll have to try to make a move on this girl. Put your arm around her when she lays her head on your shoulder, or hold her hand, if you aren't sure how to do this, you could always start by telling her that she has beautiful hands and this would allow you to touch her hand and hold it naturally, compliment her hair and touch it gently... I just think that you have to try to break a little bit the physical barrier between you two and see how she responds. You have a good mental and emotional connection, so it's only normal to test a little bit the physical attraction possibility. Hopefully when you'll be stargazing together or having a glass of wine together you'll both be charmed and having an initiative like this will come naturally to you and to her.

[TablesandChairs]

Hi Caged,

Unfortunately some of us girls can get a bit put off by excessive shyness/insecurity...I guess we're programmed to look at it as 'unmasculine' or something...it's easy to friend-zone guys over that. Not saying we want violent neanderthals either but...confident guys are less likely to get friendzoned, basically.

So, get over your fears as quickly as you can; this means you're going to have to pretend you're not anxious, even if you are. As for readibg cues - can't help you with that, I'd have to be in the same room. Usually you can just tell.

If you've done any form of anxiety therapy, perhaps you'd be familiar with the question 'what's the worst that could happen?' So you make a move and she says 'oh i just wanted to be friends'. Big deal, it's not like you got shot in the head. You'll survive.

[caged]

Agreed, we don't like those words either. That's why we hesitate to give our advice because it seems to fall on deaf ears, or get bombarded with excuses. Just keep us updated. We always like to hear about any new developments.

I've decided a while back to not answer anything with "easier said than done". I am very bad at noticing if a girl likes me or not (really, really bad), so I usually ask people close to me what they think (kind of like on my first post) - the thing is, I've moved cities a few months back and my closest friends stayed behind. I don't know much people here, apart from her. The "(girl) friend" I speak on my first post is one of those close friends, we skype a lot and she's actually the only person with whom I spoke about this. She's not online that much, and I thought this could be a good place to get some more oppinions and advice. This may be a bad way of proceeding, but if a lot of people close to me tell me I should do something, and I'm confused about it, I will take their advice. My AD makes me very confused at times and I don't know the best way to proceed on a lot of situations (like with her: sure, someone without AD would probably be nervous about making a move at a girl they like, but to me, it's lots of times more nervewrecking, as my previous therapist told me). My specific AD (that's GAD) causes me to be tense 24/7 (I literally don't know the feeling of relaxation) and worry abnormously too much about everything - including little things and the "what if's". It sucks, and even with that in my mind, it's something I can't prevent, because it's not something I can control. Anyway, I am mostly decided that it won't go past the next date. Even if no opportunity arises during the date to make a move of somekind, I will probably just tell her I like her, and hear what she has to say. I need to know if we're on the same page, because the uncertainty and the little things she sometimes does (like, I know it isn't important but, the quick texts and finishing conversations online / by text really quickly) are screwing my AD like hell. I lose all my motivation for a lot of things I like to do, including my job, and I can't stop thinking about it. I feel like I need an answer so I can decide if I need to forget her in that way and just be friends, or that yes, she feels something for me as well. That's what I've been convincing myself of doing. Because if I don't tell her, and no opportunity arises during the next date, she's going away for some weeks again, and I will be here, drowning in worries that have no reason to be. And I hate feeling like this.

Woah sorry for the long reply. It was kind of venting as well (I felt like I needed it). Thanks again for your advice! As far as updates go, she postponed it due to work, but it should be next week as well.

Since she likes going out with you, she definitely likes you. If it's only as a friend or more you probably need a little bit more time in order to see it clearly. Some of the things she does like leaning her head on your shoulder, looking deeply into your eyes and choosing romantic places for your dates, could suggest a romantic interest but in order for you to really know, you'll have to try to make a move on this girl. Put your arm around her when she lays her head on your shoulder, or hold her hand, if you aren't sure how to do this, you could always start by telling her that she has beautiful hands and this would allow you to touch her hand and hold it naturally, compliment her hair and touch it gently... I just think that you have to try to break a little bit the physical barrier between you two and see how she responds. You have a good mental and emotional connection, so it's only normal to test a little bit the physical attraction possibility. Hopefully when you'll be stargazing together or having a glass of wine together you'll both be charmed and having an initiative like this will come naturally to you and to her.

Hi, thank you for your reply! The head on shoulder thing was way too fast for me to act on anything (around 2 seconds). All I could do, the second time, was cuddle her cheek playfully (and awkwardly lol). When she was staring into my eyes while resting her head on the table was the most dead-on sign I got from her. And I feel like it was a mistake to let that moment just pass and not do something. But hey, anxiety strikes! And yeah, the last romantic date she planned was a picnic, but it did not happen unfortunately, we were going to a park outside of town, but when we met up it started raining, so we just went to a normal restaurant (it was still a romantic one, though, her choice - it had a smooth jazz band playing!), and then she spoke about the stargazing. I don't think friends invite other friends for picnics and stargazing (especially friends of the opposite sex), but I could be wrong. I will do my best to find a good opportunity and do something. Thanks!

Hi Caged,

Unfortunately some of us girls can get a bit put off by excessive shyness/insecurity...I guess we're programmed to look at it as 'unmasculine' or something...it's easy to friend-zone guys over that. Not saying we want violent neanderthals either but...confident guys are less likely to get friendzoned, basically.

So, get over your fears as quickly as you can; this means you're going to have to pretend you're not anxious, even if you are. As for readibg cues - can't help you with that, I'd have to be in the same room. Usually you can just tell.

If you've done any form of anxiety therapy, perhaps you'd be familiar with the question 'what's the worst that could happen?' So you make a move and she says 'oh i just wanted to be friends'. Big deal, it's not like you got shot in the head. You'll survive.

Hi! Thanks for the reply! I am VERY good at hiding my anxiety / shyness / insecurity (or so my friends say), it mostly happens inside my head. The shyness, sure, on our first date it was probably noticeable, after that? Sure, a little bit, she can probably tell I'm shy (and that's where my theory comes in, about her planning our dates as romantic activities or at romantic places, so maybe the mood will get me doing something - I could be wrong of course). And reading cues... I can't tell. I just can't. I've always sucked at that. Ever since I was younger and mutual friends would come to me and say "Hey! So and so likes you" I would have never known by myself / our interactions together. Yep, I really suck at this. The most obvious one, I felt, was the staring into my eyes one. But I kinda froze and the opportunity died with that. And then I hated myself for days lol. And yeah "What's the worst that could happen?" is something I have to think more often, instead of finding excuses in my head not to act on something. I need to be constantly reminded of this.

Thanks again people