Printable View
Come on Dopple. Its not like Vash knows anything about raising teenagers. I'm not even there yet, I pay very close attention to her posts about this subject.
What is the real problem? That teenagers do stupid things? That some fraction of them are ruthless animals? Or that many people who *could* have intervened chose not to? Its not like this happened in a remote village on the island of Lord of the Flies. Noone even needed to be a hero. Cellphones? 911? Anyone??
I can understand where Doppel is coming from to an extent because he and I hold a strong sense of individual accountability, but this was a child.
When you're young, you make mistakes, even though you can mentally distinguish good from bad, you are still a victim to temptation. This girl was wrong to go drink from a legal standpoint, but from a social standpoint, its the norm.
Alcohol has powerful effects on the mind, especially when you are younger. It has slightly different effects from person to person. Some people forget everything, some people seem to become physically stronger, some people break down and cry, some feel no pain, others get angry, etc, etc. These are the things that make it dangerous to the younger crowd, its not the health impacts that keep the government from budging on the drinking age.
She was probably just trying to fit in, we have all been there. Its easy to say "don't do that", but things change and its much harder to abide to those things in the heat of the moment.
You guys want some advise on teenagers? You have to second guess everything we tell you for a while. Its a rebellious age, drugs, hormones, the opposite sex, drivers licenses.... Every parent wants to trust their kid(s), but the reality is that teenagers are naive and stupid about most things they deal with at that age. If they say they are just "having a sleepover with friends"....the opposite sex will be there. Its just the nasty reality at that age.
This girl did not in any way deserve what happened to her. I cannot understand, as a guy with morals and respect for women how anyone could standby and just watch.
If I saw that happening, there is no doubt in my mind that I would be capable of doing terrible things to another human being who was participating in it.
What is happening to our society? Is everyone so afraid for their own well being that they can't do whats right?
this is usually me, however, i wish that girls would take advantage of ME during my drunken state.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gribble [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
raverboy
Not to mention it is a NORMAL and EXPECTED part of growing up to question authority. To be honest, I worry just as much about the ones who never test their limits. Sure, it's easier to raise them when they are compliant and listen to everything their parents say, but a certain amount of fire is healthy. I should know: I have one of each type. I have not experienced problems of the magnitude this young girl - and her family - are experiencing right now, but believe me - I worry about how vulnerable my girl is. Could she be a victim? Of course. It doesn't take much effort to slip something into someone's drink.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cbrider [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
Lack of restraint. PC 'values' in society. Too many people freak out and make BFD when it doesn't matter so there's no more judgment about how to act when it DOES matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cbrider [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
The inmates are running the asylum. Police without power, so this selects for corrupts cops, which makes people hate them... same for teachers--not allowed to fail anyone, or kick any trouble-makers out of school. If they do something serious enough to get arrested, no real consequences. Too many special interest groups each with their own angst-ridden issues that 'must' be heard. Too few people willing to stand up and tell morons who only think they know something to STFU.
Who wants to lead people who think they don't need leadership?
I bet you those who raped this girl were gang bangers, and the onlookers were too scared to intervene.
Not that they shouldn't have notified the police, but the onlookers were probably kids, too.
That poor, poor girl.
Good argument for increased teacher/responsible adult presence at school events. Also notifiying the police there is an event. Often, the school and police don't communicate. I've called a couple times about some graffitti that the police didn't know about. They are always willing to send a car around, but they need to be informed.
At our local school events, the PAC has a couple parent volunteers to do a 'walk around' just to make sure things stay quiet. Not just for violence, but to cut down on vandalism and just general stupid stuff kids do. This is what I mean about getting involved in one's community. It doesn't mean one need run for council, just take some ownership in what goes on.
Not many people on here seem to realize how much of a problem this is, or how often it happens. First of all, whenever there is alcohol and young people in the same equation, there is almost always some kind of sexual behavior that takes place. There usually be at least one couple that starts to ****, even in front of everyone else. Nobody bothers to do anything because:
1. It happens all the time.
2. It's entertaining.
3. They assume consent was given.
4. They are ****ing wasted and their judgment is gone.
5. Obviously, they are young and scared to intervene.
It honestly happens a lot more than you think it does. You ask what's happening to society? Well, I've never known anything differently; that has always been the reality of parties for my generation, and generations below mine. There are so many jokes about roofie coladas, gang rape, date rape, and taking advantage of women, that they aren't really even funny anymore. Hearing about a 12 year old girl at a college party is old news. Hearing about a girl getting taken advantage of is old news too.
What you parents outta learn is how to get closer to your children without being an 'authority'. Of course children are going to rebel, of course they are going to question authority, but that doesn't mean it's impossible to prevent them from making the wrong decisions.
This is where the problem begins and ends. Gangs rule by fear, its an instinct humans have to protect themselves from danger.Quote:
Originally Posted by vashti [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
You want to fight the problem, you fight fire with fire. These people don't care about laws, jail does nothing to stop them, it just delays the inevitable. They are worthless individuals who are a burden on society from every angle.
You want to stop these people you start killing them. You think when their homeboy drops dead on the street with his throat slit it doesn't get their attention? I don't envision a world where people are cut down in a storm of gunfire for doing wrong, but our laws don't work for everyone. We have legally tied our own hands when it comes to dealing with them and they know it. They exploit our own justice systems to work in their favor.
There is no rehabilitating these people or helping them, nor do we owe it to them. They are monsters, they have chosen a path in life.
Please tell me that if I had a gun to a mans head who raped your daughter, mother, sister or someone else close to you, that you would tell me to put it down.
Laws are our boundaries, but reality is its master.
You know, this happens a lot at frats too. The frat boys will often pick one girl and they will all take advantage of her. Happens *all* the time. I can't believe you people don't know about this.
frats and college are known for that.
speaking of which, in japan people would throw parties and concerts. afterwards, there would be an after party thing where the girl or victim was then chosen to be the one who suffered her unfortunate fate.
raverboy
Gran Torino, Rider?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cbrider [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
Quote:
Originally Posted by doppelgaenger [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
There were three other girls in highschool who were rape survivors as well.
My response to the experience led me to avoid compromising situation whenever I could... and I had learned to trust my intuition.
Two of the girls I knew did not avoid compromising situations. Instead they seemed to find themselves in the role of 'victim' even more often.
Each person could be raised the exact same way, have the same experiences, but each one will respond to their experiences in different ways. As cruel as it may sound, there are some children who are smarter than others... some who have better intuition than others... and some who are plain and simply, luckier than others.
It's natural for a teenager to want to test the boundaries of their world -- even when the rules they are testing are obviously beneficial and the dangers are very real. Some teenagers are more stubborn in their rebellion than others -- regardless of intelligence, and thus are more susceptible. On top of that, there is no guarantee that they'll take advice no matter how it is conveyed. Your best efforts and rationale sometimes is no match for teenage rebellion and temptations. At some point, as a parent, you will reach that point where you have to admit that you've done everything humanly possible to protect your child from the dangers of the world -- the rest is up to them and how they choose to act when you're not around.
Hey, I know you! You're Rorschacht from Watchmen! But Halloween was 2 days ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cbrider [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
You can add him to your ignore list, I suppose, but the best thing to do is bring it out into the open. If he doesn't have the balls to say something in front of everyone, post it like you did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumble_bee [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]