21th century is asian century.. do you think so?

[IndiReloaded]

Oh, sorry. Rice.

That IS important.

[AdminOnline]

Mandarin is the world's most wide spoken language. It holds the first place ahead of English. It has more than one billion speakers.

Speaking of number #1.. we have an influx of china nationals in singapore now. Not to be mention, indian people too. Local shopping mall get flooded by them during the weekend.

1 more...

Last heard from my friend from australia say her class is like 6 out of 10 is from china..

[Mish]

1 more...

Last heard from my friend from australia say her class is like 6 out of 10 is from china..

Yeh, we have lots of foreign students at our unis and a lot of them are Chinese nationals. I like working with them because they always promote me to team leader (or team mascot) They are very easy to work with. Any language barrier is breached by their deep commitment to work.

[misombra]

Oh, sorry. Rice.

That IS important.

what about china town!

[Mish]

Socratic method
Method of Government - Hobbes
Newtonian physics
Quantum physics
The Bible (what a summary in these two words!)
Descartes & the universe (mind & matter)
Democracy - Rosseau
Free market economy - Adam Smith
Thomas Jefferson - Declaration of Independence
The printing press - Gutenburg

Have I missed anything of this calibre from Asia? Note, I'm not just talking *inventions*, I'm talking about gestalt-changing concepts. Much more rare.

Ah come on Indi. That sounds like a list from "passing of a great nation".

How about:

Gunpowder
Astronomy
Arabic Numerals
The Bible (Yes, it came from Middle East not Europe)
Irrigation system
Space Flight (If Soviet Union is not on the list)
Periodic table of elements (If Russia is not on the list)

Some of the greatest libraries and centers of knowledge during the dark ages of Europe were in the Islamic world.

Don't make me list every invention with huge world influence that originated from a place other than Europe. I finished the game Civilization at least 500 times and I will quote technology origins in its entirety if I have to

[Gribble]

Let's not forget Mesopotamia.

But Indi's got a point. China developed gunpowder long before anyone else, but what did they do with it? Squat.

[Mish]

Let's not forget Mesopotamia.

But Indi's got a point. China developed gunpowder long before anyone else, but what did they do with it? Squat.

The Chinese wasted little time in applying gunpowder to warfare, and they produced a variety of gunpowder weapons, including flamethrowers, rockets, bombs, and mines, before inventing firearms. There was once a great deal of confusion and controversy surrounding the invention of firearms, but it is now generally accepted that firearms originated in China.

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunpowder#China[/url]

Chase, Kenneth (2003), Firearms: A Global History to 1700, Cambridge University Press, ISBN 0521822742 .




PS That "great nation" comment to Indi was meant to be "The Passing of the Great Race"

[Mish]

By the way, for those interested here is a whole list of inventions and gestalt-changing concepts made in the Islamic world that we continue to enjoy today

Some:

Chemistry as a science was almost created by the Moslems; for in this field, where the Greeks (so far as we know) were confined to industrial experience and vague hypothesis, the Saracens introduced precise observation, controlled experiment, and careful records. They invented and named the alembic (al-anbiq), chemically analyzed innumerable substances, composed lapidaries, distinguished alkalis and acids, investigated their affinities, studied and manufactured hundreds of drugs. Alchemy, which the Moslems inherited from Egypt, contributed to chemistry by a thousand incidental discoveries, and by its method, which was the most scientific of all medieval operations.

Clear, colourless and high-purity glass
Glass factory
Ballistic war machine and siege cannon
Fireproof clothing
Essential oil: Invented by Abū Alī ibn Sīnā (Avicenna) in the 11th century.[12]
Kerosene and kerosene lamp: Invented by Muhammad ibn Zakarīya Rāzi in the 9th century.[53]
Oil field, petroleum industry, naphtha, and tar
Pottery factory
Street light, kerosene lamp, and litter collection facilities
Surveying instruments
Tar roads and pavements:
Bridge dam:
Central heating through underfloor pipes
Diversion dam:
Geared and hydropowered water supply system
Factory milling installation
Geared and wind powered gristmills with trip hammers:
Wind mills
Paper Mills
Sugar Refineries
Beauty parlour and cosmetology school
Soap: The soap now used in modern times is made of vegetable oils (such as olive oil) with sodium hydroxide and aromatics (such as thyme oil). This formula was invented by Muslim chemists, and differed from the earlier soap-like detergents used in ancient times.[7][11] Sodium lye (al-soda al-kawia), perfumed and colored soaps, and liquid and solid soaps, were also produced by Muslim chemists.[93]
Soap bar:
Toothpaste
Academic degree-granting University:[101] If the definition of a university is assumed to mean an institution of higher education and research which issues academic degrees at all levels (bachelor, master and doctorate) like in the modern sense of the word, then the medieval Madrasahs known as Jami'ah ("university" in Arabic) founded in the 9th century would be the first examples of such an institution.
College The origins of the college lie in the medieval Islamic world. The madrasah was a medieval Islamic college of law and theology, usually affiliated with a mosque, and was funded by early charitable trusts known as Waqf, the origins of the trust law
Jury and jury trial: The closest predecessor to the English jury trial was the Lafif in the Maliki school of classical Islamic law and jurisprudence, which was developed between the 8th and 11th centuries.
Observatory as a research institute As opposed to a private observation post as was the case in ancient times,[111] the astronomical observatories in the Islamic world were the first true observatories, in the sense that they functioned as early research institutes, like modern observatories.[101] The Islamic observatory was the first specialized astronomical institution with its own scientific staff,[112] director, astronomical program,[113] large astronomical instruments, and building where astronomical research and observations are carried out. Islamic observatories were also the first to employ enormously large astronomical instruments in order to improve the accuracy of their observations.[112] Famous examples include the observatories at Baghdad and Ray, Iran, the Maragheh observatory, Ulugh Beg's observatory at Samarqand, and the Istanbul observatory of al-Din.
Trust institution and charitable trust
Psychiatric hospital: The first psychiatric hospitals were built in the medieval Islamic world. The first of these were built built in Baghdad in 705, Fes in the early 8th century, and Cairo in 800.[120]
Public hospital The Islamic Bimaristans were the first free public hospitals, and replaced the healing temples and sleep temples found in ancient times.



Sorry, there's too much to list, it's all in here

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inventions_in_the_Islamic_world[/url]

[Mish]

For those who doubt any new inventions were made in the modern age, here is proof to the contrary:

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inventions_in_the_modern_Islamic_world[/url]

And for those who think Europe was on its own during their great achievements here is some food for thought:

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_contributions_to_Medieval_Europe[/url]

Economics
Education
Law
Literature
Philosophy
Mathematics
Physics
Medicine

Development of a lot of the above as we see them today have roots and influences in non European spheres

[IndiReloaded]

I knew this would happen. Mish, I *explicitly* said that I'm not merely talking about inventions. Thats simply not enough to change the entire course of multiple cultures. Most of the examples you give do not really compare to the concepts I listed for sheer cultural revolution power (I don't pretend my list was exhaustive, but it was a pretty good one, I thought.)

I could have mentioned hundreds more inventions if that is all we were discussing. Russian space advances are great, you wouldn't get me in anything right now other than Soyuz tech, but they didn't *create* the concept of flight. We'd have to give that credit to the Wright brothers, or DaVinci for his uncanny prescient drawings. Or Newton, who I mentioned. They would have had a really hard time doing those calculations to get to orbit if it weren't for him.

Its what Gribble said. Invention = great. But what was done with it? How was it used & developed/expanded. If the Russians actually get humans off this planet & into space, THAT would be culture-changing in the most significant way. We'll have to see.

[Gribble]

I've done some searching on the net, Mish. Everything I can find about Chinese gunpowder-based weaponry is very vague. My understanding is that they didn't go terribly far with it. They may have used bombs and rudimentary firearms, but when did they discover gunpowder? Back in the 900's, right? I need to find a book or something on this subject.

In either case, how long did it take Great Britain to whip together the Maxim gun? How long before they had gigantic seaborne fortresses bristling with cannonades? Gunpowder was refined, new and better weapons were produced, and before terribly long the sun never set on the British Empire.

Even if China did use gunpowder for more than a few clay bombs and hand-bombards they still mostly warred amongst themselves. China's discoveries were laudable. However, it was the western world that ran with them.

[IndiReloaded]

Sorry, there's too much to list, it's all in here

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inventions_in_the_Islamic_world[/url]

Mish, consider who might write this kind of article. This is the kind of thing about wiki that I have cautioned you about before.

I mention this b/c I happen to know that soap was not, contrary to the author of this article, invented by muslims. LOL.

Soap is made by animals drippings falling into the ash of old fires. Its a mixture of fat (drippings) & lye (ash). Its something that almost every culture who could make fire & hunted knew about. Also, they use the term 'soap-like detergent' and that just makes no sense. Tho it could be that whoever wrote that doesn't understand chemistry, which is another reason to be skeptical about the entry.

It could be that muslim cultures were the first to record it. I think that Persian & Egyptian medicine, literature, music, etc. was pretty advanced in its time. But they got completely screwed over by religion & it basically hamstrung them. Guns, Germs & Steel mentions this (I think) or mbe The God Delusion.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure I also listed "muslim" as an example of an old power in my earliest posts.

Rome was an old power. Britain, Spain, France, even America (tho American influence takes a different form). Even muslims as evidenced by their presence in countries such as Spain.

[Mish]

I knew this would happen. Mish, I *explicitly* said that I'm not merely talking about inventions. Thats simply not enough to change the entire course of multiple cultures. Most of the examples you give do not really compare to the concepts I listed for sheer cultural revolution power (I don't pretend my list was exhaustive, but it was a pretty good one, I thought.)

I could have mentioned hundreds more inventions if that is all we were discussing. Russian space advances are great, you wouldn't get me in anything right now other than Soyuz tech, but they didn't *create* the concept of flight. We'd have to give that credit to the Wright brothers, or DaVinci for his uncanny prescient drawings. Or Newton, who I mentioned. They would have had a really hard time doing those calculations to get to orbit if it weren't for him.

Its what Gribble said. Invention = great. But what was done with it? How was it used & developed/expanded. If the Russians actually get humans off this planet & into space, THAT would be culture-changing in the most significant way. We'll have to see.

In that case (using your example of flight) you have to admit that Chemistry and lots and lots of other great cultural developments and advances in almost every imaginable field as we know them today wouldn't not have existed if it wasn't for advances in the Islamic field. In other words almost everything material we have today is due to the sheer cultural revolution power of the Islamic world.

How about references to Mathematics, Physics, Medicine, Structure of education system, Philosophy, Law?


Indi, I'm sorry but I do believe you're talking out of your ass on this. Claiming that one culture has one revolutionary power over all others is so end of 19th century beginning of white power "eugenics theory" that honestly I expected a lot more out of you in this.

[IndiReloaded]

I never said it was one culture. I gave an entire list, including muslim influence. I said that, historically, asian (not = muslim, I would call that 'muslim, or middle eastern') culture has been centrist and not very influential in the development of world culture, as far as expanding its own unique concepts and influence.

[Mish]

Anyway, I'm pretty sure I also listed "muslim" as an example of an old power in my earliest posts.

Yeh, but straight after that you claimed superiority of one culture above others and that's what really peeved me about your posts

Well, if you make a list of the most influential ideas of all time (to date), I'm afraid its very heavily weighted towards Western culture. That's really what I'm saying as regards Asian culture. You are right, its certainly more than English (in fact, one could also argue strongly for German as far as ideas go). But just saying that its definitely NOT been asian influence as far as shaping the world. So far.